User talk:Royalbroil/Archive11

Active discussions


Thanks for providing semi-protection for Blackbeard; the vandals were tiring the watchlisters out. Vincent pearse (talk) 01:11, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

thank you

My RFA passed today at 150/48/6. I wanted to thank you for weighing in, and I wanted to let you know I appreciated all of the comments, advice, criticism, and seriously took it all to heart this past week. I'll do my absolute best to not let any of you down with the incredible trust given me today. rootology (C)(T) 07:51, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome note

Thanks for the welcome note and for the encouragement. I really appreciate it. I’m trying to absorb all of the Wikirules! Orange Mike was correct in removing those large block quotes I had in the article. However it also took out a lot of information I think the reader would be interested in. So I’m reading all I can about the artist, trying to distill it, and I’m going to write some paragraphs to fill in the gaps. I’ll let you and Orange Mike know when I post the changes, so I can get your reaction.

In the future, I’d like to start an article about the Outwin Boochever Portrait Competition, which is kind of like the Pulitzer Prize of portraiture. There are also several other deserving Wisconsin artists who have either very short articles, or no article at all. I’d like to try and work on those as well. Hey, this is fun… Thanks again, Nuts4art (talk) 17:09, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Bishop Zubik

I removed a POV sentence from the article about Bishop David Zubik who used to be at Green Bay with the suggestion that the editor take his/her concerns to the talk page and now this editor brought this back-the comment was about Bishop Zubik being heavyhanded when he was in Green Bay.I do not feel like engaging this editor in a edit war.Thanks=RFD (talk) 19:43, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

My DYK noms

Hey, my name is Hunter. I have a few DYK noms that are a few days old (Tommy Johnagin, The Defining Moment and Chris Lu) that either don't seem to have any objections, or that I've addressed the nominations. There seems to be a backlog, so I was wondering if you wouldn't mind taking a quick look at them if you get the chance. I'd hate to see them expire. Thanks in advance! --Hunter Kahn (talk) 02:30, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I verified all of the them. In the future, don't sweat it or ask someone to go out of their way to review your noms. I have a nom older than ALL of these and I'm not worried. The "expired" noms is a goal that is rarely achieved. As long as all of the noms in the area of your noms aren't approved, you shouldn't be worried. Royalbroil 05:36, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for the advise. I'm still fairly new to all this, so I appreciate the help. And thanks for verifying them! --Hunter Kahn (talk) 06:00, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Snickers salad

What was your verdict? Will you be bringing one this year's 4th of July BBQ's? Next year's Super Bowl parties? Are you ready to try glorified rice? I think you might have to be Lutheran to make it properly, so make sure to check first. You could also try the bacon explosion, but it doesn't seem like a good idea... ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:28, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

You got me snickering! The snickers salad was, of course, AWESOME! As usual. It was part of our Superbowl party. I noticed the new article at User:AlexNewArtBot/WisconsinSearchResult (it's now archived}, and it inspired me to make the salad. I had made it many times before. My opinion on glorified rice: "YUCK". I never heard of bacon explosion before. Royalbroil 05:16, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Do you add anything besides cool whip, granny smith apples, and snickers bars to your Snickers salad? Have you had glorified rice? And what about bars? I'm hoping to have a photo of every type, so get to work. I like the ones with raspberry jam in them. Have a Leini's for me, cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:03, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
What you call snickers salad, we call Granny Smith Apple Salad. We use cool whip, granny smith apples, and snickers. That's all, nothing else! I tried glorified rice and didn't like it very much because I dislike cold rice or cold noodles. My aunt makes her husband's family recipe from I think Delta County, Michigan in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Bars! Yummy bars! Everyone around here in East Central Wisconsin has them year round. We have many family recipes. I had no idea that they were a Midwestern staple - I assumed that they were worldwide! Royalbroil 00:24, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Hobbit (unit)

Thanks for the cleanup - I should have done a cut & paste move, but instead clicked the "move" button for some reason. --Amble (talk) 00:52, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome. I was hoping that you wouldn't be upset, since I probably should have asked you, so I'm glad that you were appreciative. Royalbroil 03:15, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Elm Grove, Wisconsin

Would you please look at the Elm Grove, Wisconsin article?Someone added asection about government conflict-it was cited with references but I am wondering if this is appropriate.Thanks-RFD (talk) 14:35, 10 February 2009 (UTC) OrangeMike took care of it-Thanks-RFD (talk) 14:49, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Butch Hartman (racer)

  On February 11, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Butch Hartman (racer), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Dravecky (talk) 21:24, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, hello, and so forth!

I added a reference to the Anderson W. Brown article, and I'll be fleshing out more articles on Rhinelander area history and the like as I have time.. So little accurate info/misinformation on the internet about the topic, but there are many print sources with good info that I have in my collection and can reference, and between the library and city hall, historical society, etc, there's a lot of information that I'd like to make more accessable so more interested people can learn about it! (Surely I'm not the only person out there curious about the history of the city in which I live!) I'll be taking some pictures of things, too :) Just have to master that MOS business! Upnort (talk) 17:30, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Request for Rollbacker privilege

Hi Royal. I am hereby requesting rollbacker privileges [1]. In the interim please revert the World of Warcraft reference posted on WOW series by User Thanks Petersent (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 22:50, 14 February 2009 (UTC).

In my opinion, this is a good example for a time to NOT use rollback. It was not blatant vandalism, just a misguided edit. Misguided edits should use the undo button so you can add an explanation. Rollback should be used when its so bad that an explanation is not needed.
I'm not convinced that you are ready WP:ROLLBACK privileges right now. I've never granted them to anyone. I actually opposed implementing the concept for non-administrators because I think there should be a high bar for granting this privilege. Believe me, it's nothing personal or an indication of what you've accomplished. You can make your request at Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Rollback if you want. Royalbroil 04:46, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
Here's an example of a time when rollback can be used - someone was obviously vandalizing Wikipedia. Royalbroil 13:59, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Mario Andretti

I am confused as to what you are trying to say to me.

"I don't think that you're part of these groups" If you look at the history of the Mario article, as well as the F1 discussion page, you will see that I am one of the people that helped and did a lot of work on the article to get it through GAR., if you mean I am not one of the Italy/Yugoslavia/Croatia people then you are correct, I am not.

I am unsure if you are trying to tell me that I do not understand what was going on there, or that I do understand lol.

Anyway, I just wanted to make it clear to the editor that the article on Mario was not the place to discuss that matter, although the addition of the text was relevant, I did delete the date to avoid having to change the start of the next sentence.

I am hoping that we agree on this and that you wre just pointing out I did a good job telling him that lol

--Chaosdruid (talk) 05:54, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I know - I did have a glance at them before I started on the article, it looked like a nightmare.
Just wanted you to know that I was trying to nip it in the bud and let others see what was going on by putting that comment in the edit summary
Anyway I must get off to bed now as it's 06:15 ! Have a good night's editing !! :¬) --Chaosdruid (talk) 06:16, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Hook swap

Give me a few minutes, I'm currently just completing another update. Gatoclass (talk) 13:19, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

  Done Gatoclass (talk) 13:32, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
No problem :) Gatoclass (talk) 13:50, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Steve Addington

  On February 15, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Steve Addington, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 14:25, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Hamerstown hoax

I check my DeLorme Wisconsin Gazetteer&Atlas and there is no Hamerstown listed.I agree the article is a hoax and needs to be deleted.Thanks-RFD (talk) 13:36, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Please my comments in the Hamerstown article.I did some checking.Thanks-RFD (talk) 14:49, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Based on both your and my assessments, I deleted it under WP:CSD#G3 (pure vandalism). Royalbroil 01:04, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


Hi I'm Erwin Springer. Thanks for welcoming me. I'm not on Wikipedia very often, but I know a lot about wikitext and stuff as I edit the Adventures in Odyssey wiki and I have made a lot of contributions there. What do you mean about about photos? Do I need a licence to upload pictures of certain places? Erwin Springer [talk] 00:54, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

There is a picture of the sign here, if you're intrested, I'm kind of busy, but I'll help if needed. Erwin Springer [talk] 22:19, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Brothertown Sign.jpg

I have listed this image at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images because I suppose that it is an image of copyrighted text and only serves the purpose of showing that text. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

I disagree - it existed to show that there was a sign marking the tribe in their former reservation. Whatever. I deleted it as the sole author. Royalbroil 03:14, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


I think the reason that happened is apparently Huggle failed to recognize that he had already been warned recently. At least, that's the only explanation I can think of. (sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, I haven;t been feeling very well.) Thingg 16:55, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Disputed Page Move

I have a Disputed Page move for a Template I was trying to move last night. The pages I was trying to move were User:UBX/NASCAR Craftsman Truck SeriesUser:UBX/NASCAR Camping World Truck Series per the new Series Name Change. I assumed that since the Camping World Truck Series was the new name of the series I shouldn't of had a Problem. But I did as someone disputed it per a Essay of WP:Broke, now I am having to dispute it per WP:NAME. The Discussion is at User talk:UBX/NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series Please put your input in. Sawblade05 (talk to me | my wiki life) 18:19, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK update needed

DYK is due for an update. Can you do it? Should be from queue 3. Shubinator (talk) 01:18, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I was just looking at it! Thanks for the bump. Royalbroil 01:20, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Sure. I can do credits if you want. Shubinator (talk) 01:21, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Sure, you can do the credits. I'll take care of the admin part and dealing with the recent changes. Royalbroil 01:22, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Excellent, thank you! Can you also delete the previous picture from en and move hooks from the next update queue to queue 1? Shubinator (talk) 01:39, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Help! DYK is overdue again, and the usual suspects don't seem to be around. Next update is supposed to be from Queue 4. --Orlady (talk) 01:33, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Are you up for another update in a few minutes? Shubinator (talk) 04:30, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I know what you mean. I did some vandal stuff early on, and DYK definitely has a different feel. Right now especially...we have less than 150 unverified hooks on the nominations page...could reach 100 soon. Definitely an improvement, with everyone (Awadewit, Mattisse especially) pitching in. The queues are all full's very nice. Well, if you ignore the WT side. Shubinator (talk) 04:36, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Oh, want me to do credits again? Shubinator (talk) 04:36, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
I've done credits, so you can clear queue 1. Oh, and don't forget to bump the next queue count to 2.
Haha, yeah. It was weird the first time I went to a page to give credits and saw a previous posting of mine. That reminds me, the first part of your answer to the first question in your RfA is eerily similar to one I would give. I could copy it verbatim. Another interesting tidbit: this response to you a week ago was apparently my 1000th edit. I couldn't have picked a more fitting one if I'd chosen it. Shubinator (talk) 04:49, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I dig around RfA's once in a while. It's especially interesting to look at the ones for DYK editors because I might be in that boat some day. Yours and Suntag's are two different sides of the coin. Shubinator (talk) 05:08, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
It seems like RfA's are either unanimous (or close to it), or it's a borderline case or below. Doesn't seem to be a middle ground, like 85% approval. There always does seem to be some heckler-type in the oppose section. I've already had my share of RfA drama 6th edit. I didn't get badgered, but I'm sure some were thinking it, and that's the first impression people got of me. Shubinator (talk) 05:31, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Another update needed, from queue 4. I'll take credits :) Shubinator (talk) 05:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Credits done. I like your edit summary for the archive :P Shubinator (talk) 05:39, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Haha, my backup was Ruhrfisch. I've got this down to an art now. There are actually a decent amount of "Willing to help" DYK admins editing right now, but you're my top choice. Just last update I had to fetch Kanonkas though. You should see PeterSymond's edits in the DYK archives...cracked me up. Yeah, I like programming. The updating bot is up to Ameliorate! for now, but I'll gladly help. In a week I'll probably start on a tagging bot that tags every article that's ever appeared in DYK. Shubinator (talk) 05:47, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, YM forgot to reset the time. Can you also bump the next queue number to 3 and reset queue 2? If you have time, it would be great if you could look over next next update and put those in queue 2. Shubinator (talk) 01:25, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Heh, you can't really. It doesn't really matter, but I look into the histories and see which one was loaded first. Also this time I want to move Scarlet Robin (from Next Update) into a new set of hooks as the picture hook, because the robin picture is rather nice. Shubinator (talk) 01:36, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Thank you! Shubinator (talk) 01:41, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Ready for another update in 5 minutes? Shubinator (talk) 16:43, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I was just looking at the contents of queue 5 to see if everything is good! Royalbroil 16:46, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
I'll take credits :) Shubinator (talk) 16:48, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
It looks good now on my screen. The bottom lines up perfectly with On This Day. I'll get together a Next Update after I do credits. Thank you! Shubinator (talk) 16:54, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Want me to do the rest of the credits? Shubinator (talk) 05:30, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Up for another round? Shubinator (talk) 23:54, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Want me to do credits? Shubinator (talk) 03:33, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Sure, works for me. Shubinator (talk) 03:34, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Done. Thanks for your help! Maybe you can help Ruhrfisch with the's quite a pile. Shubinator (talk) 03:48, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
A couple images (from OTD) got left behind. Also, this image looks old indeed, judging by this user archive. Thank you for your help! Shubinator (talk) 04:31, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
The last one is also temporarily uploaded from Commons, even if it isn't tagged as such; the Commons version is here. So pages that show the En version will still show the Commons version after deletion. Shubinator (talk) 04:43, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I can do credits. Shubinator (talk) 04:12, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Ok, sure. Might want to flip Tharbis and History of rugby... so the two bio hooks (Tharbis and Mangrum) aren't next to each other. Shubinator (talk) 04:15, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
It looks pretty good. DYK is a bit longer, but just by a line. Looks nice. Shubinator (talk) 04:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Another update needed, from queue 3. Shubinator (talk) 18:45, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Sure, I'll do credits. DYK is addicting... Shubinator (talk) 18:49, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
I've got two DYK questions for ya. There's an April Fool's type hook at it good enough? Second, the discussion on changing the DYK updating instructions has gone stale. Can you do the change? Or maybe post a note saying something like "If there aren't any more suggestions/objections by March 20, these instructions will be put in place"? Shubinator (talk) 19:03, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
It seems like a lot of the content-checking areas (DYK, GAN, FAC) are in constant need of editors. Yeah, the current system has helped out a lot. Once or twice I've seen DYK late, but couldn't do anything about it because of RL. DYK is important, but there are many more important things in life.
Ok, I'll keep an eye on that nomination, and if Bellhalla approves I'll move it over. If anyone is in charge of April Fools' DYK, it's you!
Thank you! Shubinator (talk) 19:29, 14 March 2009 (UTC) (oh, and I'll remember to make a new section once in a while...)

DYK for Boaz mastodon

  On 27 February, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Boaz mastodon, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Dravecky (talk) 02:38, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK approvals

You mean for promoting the hooks from next update to the queue? No, you don't have to check the articles for that. Basically, what I do is just check that the person who put the update together is trustworthy, by checking the next update history page. If it's someone I don't know, or someone I think is inexperienced or a bit suspect, then I will check the hooks, but that only rarely happens. Have a look at the history page and you will see the promoters are mostly a small bunch of highly experienced people.

If you are asking me if you need to doublecheck verified hooks that you are promoting yourself to next update from the Suggestions page, again, I look at who did the verifying, and if it's someone I trust I may well promote the hook without checking the article. In practice however, I probably do end up giving most of the articles I promote from the suggestions page a quick eyeball for one reason or another. Sometimes people make mistakes and nothing is more annoying than going to all the trouble of building an update and then realizing that one of the articles isn't up to scratch. Also if I have time I like to try and put the better articles near the top of the update and so on. But basically, I don't think you need to double-check if someone trustworthy has done the verifying. We very rarely get complaints about DYK from the general community. So I wouldn't worry too much about the kerfuffle that's going on at DYK:Discussions right now :) Gatoclass (talk) 13:57, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Gingles, Wisconsin

I am running into a problem with the town of Gingles, Wisconsin article. An anon editor put in a paragraph about the Gingles name. I took it out-the anon editor put it back.I kept it there not wanting to get into an edit war.I left a comment on the article's talk page also.Anyway today I did some research and I could not find anything about the Gingles family and their relationship to the town of Gingles. The only information I found was in the Wisconsin Historical Society when the town was created in 1924.The historical society was silent about the origins of the name for the town of Gingles.Anyway, I took the paragraph out about the Gingles family and inserted the information about the creation of the town.I hope the anon editor will take a gentle hint about providing citations-Thanks-RFD (talk) 15:29, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Foyt IV

Go ahead and do whatever is necessary. I've been pretty busy with real life lately. -Drdisque (talk) 23:52, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi Royalbroil

Sorry for the speedy tag on Norton AV article. TechOutsider has been looking for directions to go, and is doing a tremendous job on the Norton articles. When he suggested that it was too difficult to maintain so many different articles, and said that they all really belong to NIS - I suggested that he go ahead, copy everything over to NIS he wanted to and then PROD the ones he was done with. I should have been more specific - but damn that kid is fast! LOL .. mention an idea, and he's off and running. Sometimes I think he's got too many irons in the fire ;) ... ahhhh would that I was that young and full of gusto again. I'm trying to just do a merge from a recent close, answer his questions, and feel like I'm behind on two other articles I'm trying to work on. How one gets behind on work in a volunteer site I haven't figured out yet - but I seem to have unique ability in that area. I also do work with our local Emergency Response Team, VFD, PD ... sorry - I start typing and don't know when to shutup. I'll try to keep things sorted out the best I can, he wants me to do a RfC on a name change / move too ... but, I'd rather wait until he gets a little further along. Thanks for fixin the speedy to a merge. Have a good one. ;) — Ched ~ (yes?) 04:35, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

In that case, I would expect Norton Antivirus to be a redirect and not a prod. It used to be a famous product - I had bought copies! It's extremely EASY to get behind on what you'd like to accomplish here! Royalbroil 05:05, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
LOL at getting behind, and yep - you're right on redirect - I should have been thinking further ahead. re: Heidelberg Raceway YES! YES! YES! I had let that one go for a bit, I found what I could on the web, then asked the toughest "delete" admin. I could find (Orangemike) - and he said it wouldn't automatically transfer notability (Lee Petty winning first race). I was at the Carnegie library last week, and they are having the local historical society transfer stuff to them - so I'll finally be able to get some good refs. ANYTHING you have would be greatly appreciated! Wherever you want to work on it, just let me know, and I'll be there! Come to think of it - that's where I've seen your name before - the Tim Richmond article I have watchlisted ... wow, small wiki - LOL — Ched ~ (yes?) 05:26, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
I also have the programs from last years that they existed (I used to sell them there). So I've got stats on who won championships and stuff. I'm still in touch with a couple drivers too - but most of that would be OR, but might have some clippings. — Ched ~ (yes?) 05:29, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Sure that would be great - I'd be honored! The Richmond article has come a long way in a short time - great work! (I noticed you didn't comment on delete admin - current Arbcom or anything ;)) — Ched ~ (yes?) 05:39, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Great! Yep, I agree, Mike seems like a nice guy, but I haven't really worked with him on anything. I was surprised when he told me he didn't follow NASCAR, I thought everyone in TN. did ... lulz. That wasn't really what I was (ok I admit it ..) trolling for. I was curious about how you felt about the user pages that were deleted because they had secret pages or hidden pages or guestbook pages on them. Personally I think it's too much fuss over too minor an issue, but that's just me. I always figured, as long as they're contributing to the project, they're not attacking anyone, and they're not violating any copyvio policy - what they do on their user-space shouldn't be a big deal. But that's just me, maybe I haven't been here long enough to to form an informed opinion. I was just curious, none of my business though really. I'm looking forward to working with you, I hope to get some of the older drivers worked on too ... Rex White, etc. — Ched ~ (yes?) 06:02, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Other stuff

I'll try to keep from interrupting too much while you're working - but I looked over some stuff, and did want to make a couple offers. I see you're also a photographer - I shoot with a Nikon D80, so when the time comes for me to learn about uploading and resizing and putting the proper free use wording on things I hope you'll be willing to give me a hand. (Although I'm sure Fir0002 would lend me a hand too - good photographer, but I don't know of him being a race fan - most of his stuff I think is scenery and birds and such)

Also, on the race issues - I recently purchased a machine that lets me scan a bunch of my old negatives to digital format. It's a slow process, and often due to the age, the files need to be adjusted for color etc. I have a bunch of stuff from the early 70's when I was a teen, and it may be that some of it could improve the race articles. Most of the tracks I went to back then were in the tri-state area of PA, Ohio, and W.Va. - also some stuff from like early Bristol TN, Salem IN, Winchester IN, - probably some MI tracks as well. I know I have stuff from Sharon (named for town in OH, but actually across the border in PA), Tri-City - Lernerville PA, (recent) - Erie PA (recent), Jennerstown PA (recent), Motordrome PA (recent), Bristol TN (an ASA race in 2007), ... well, you get the gist of it. I'm not sure how many of the tracks meet notability guidelines, you'll have to clue me on that one.

A couple pictures I think can help that I already have scanned are of the last race at Heidelberg, Ed Howe won the Pittsburgher 250, and I have a good pic of Bill Steinbach (?) interviewing him and trophy is included in pic. Also, I have some old books on Alan Kulwicki that might be able to provide content. I'm also going from Pittsburgh PA to Birmingham AL early in May, if it's not too far out of the way, I could stop at any tracks or places and grab a few shots.

I also spent some time at GA talk this morning, getting an understanding of how that all works - let me know when you post the Richmond article, so I can follow along and soak in some education. Not sure where I'm taking my mom for vacation this fall yet, but do you have any idea what kind of field Slinger Speedway is going to have this year? Well, also, also, also - doesn't exactly qualify as quality standards for articles - lol, but this is only a talk page, so hopefully my actual edits will be better ;) — Ched ~ (yes?) 17:18, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Wow, too much to answer so I'm answering here. Thank you very much for the compliment on my photography. I've been hearing lately that I'm getting good at it. A picture in a book, one used by the marketing department at a major NASCAR engine part provider, etc. I'm still using my first camera! You'll be shocked to here it's a Kodak EasyShare C330. I'm planning to upgrade in the next few months to a DSLR. I don't enhance by photos at all, just crop and rotate them with Paint.NET. Free and easy. Just make sure that you use 95% quality when you save so that the files don't get real big.
Very interesting about the early 1970s photographs! I can't wait to see them. I'll gladly guide you through the process - just make sure that you upload them to Commons. I'll help you with the categories there - I am very familiar with the NASCAR and racing categories there. My experience has shown that every local racetrack meets the notability guidelines. EVERYONE told me that Slinger Super Speedway has the best racing around. After I went there - I agree. It's unbelievable! The first time that I went there I said "WOW" out loud every time the super late models raced by me on the frontstretch. It's the Bristol of local racing - the world's fast 1/4 mile. The record was set even lower by a USAC midget car last year. Check out my video of this race to see what I mean - 12 second laps. The field usually includes drivers with NASCAR experience and/or some up and comer. The season ends at around Labor Day, so fall won't work. Let me know when you want to come, maybe we could meet in real life.
Speaking of Alan Kulwicki - I improved that article to Featured Article candidate. It didn't pass but it's not far away. So there might be some more content to add to it - just make sure that you cite to make sure that it remains a WP:GA. I'll let you know when I nom Richmond for GA. I think it's already good enough to pass GA, but I want to flesh out some of the NASCAR information on each season. Royalbroil 21:05, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Yea, sorry for the marathon post above, I start typing and don't know when to shut up... lol. @Kulwicki article, an article that far along I would post any suggested change on the talk page first. Great vid of Slinger, I was only there once, but been to the Dells many times. I'd like to get back to Slinger, and subscribed to your YouTube vids. 12 sec. laps - wow! I assumed your photo work was already DSLR because of the results ... great. Just proves Ken Rockwell's statement that the camera is less important than the photographer.
How'd ya like that drifting move by Jamie Mac today? ... lol - great! Well, I'll try to keep it short this time ;) — Ched ~ (yes?) 04:14, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Would love to meet-up. Have done that many times over the years, meeting folks from www-world. Texas, Arizona, Alabama, and of course here at home in PA. Always a great time! — Ched ~ (yes?) 04:16, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Richomd to GA

Hey Royal, sure, I'll take a look at it. I'll let you know further along in the summer what travel plans are too. I look forward to the GA process, I've never watched one in action, but I've been reading through some in the last couple days. May be a little while before I dig out the AK article, but I will see what I've got (if anything) that's not already in the article. Not sure if I have any decent pics of him back in his ASA days or not, saw plenty of his races, but there was a while when I had gotten away from the camera, so I'm not sure. I'll read through the Richmond article within the next day or so. ;) — Ched ~ (yes?) 03:13, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

←I'll do my best ;). On the Richmond article, should I copy suggested changes to talk page, or just edit the article? — Ched ~ (yes?) 03:23, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Take a look, I did a couple edits, but I want to make sure that I'm headed in a direction you want to go before I go too much further. ;) — Ched ~ (yes?) 04:17, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK for World's Largest Cedar Bucket

  On March 1, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article World's Largest Cedar Bucket, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Shubinator (talk) 22:39, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


Hey Royal, how you doin tonight? Very long day, and having trouble getting right wording tonight on Richmond, so may not change much. One question though - I noticed that in some places, the numbers are used - and in others it's typed out. Is one preferred over the other? If it doesn't matter - should I go through and make it one or the other so it's consistent throughout? If so - which way do you prefer? Example: Richmond finished 3rd vs. Richmond finished third. — Ched ~ (yes?) 02:41, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

It's addressed in the Manual of Style at WP:MOSNUM. It should be third, not 3rd. Royalbroil 03:20, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
ahh ... I see you're on it. One more question - I was going to put a few buck into something at the Barnes and Nobel bookstore this week, is there anything you would suggest as helpful as far as NASCAR articles (that you don't already have)? (and let me know if I'm getting to be too much of a pest with the questions) — Ched ~ (yes?) 03:42, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
The MOSNUM says to spell out numbers less than 10 an 10-19 can go either way. Same thing with suffix - 19th or nineteenth are both acceptable. No suggestion on what book to buy - I have one old book. I use google, the New York Times archives, Google books or a library to find everything. Royalbroil 03:48, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Thank you sooo much - I didn't know what to do. I didn't want to inflame the issue - but he just wouldn't go away! — Ched ~ (yes?) 05:52, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
That user was being disruptive and appeared to be here to do vandalism only. Next time you can report someone like that at WP:AIV. Royalbroil 13:11, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

←Thank you very much Royal - I was trying to read through the userpage stuff re/vandalism - didn't want to bump up against a COI issue - I was checking to see if I could find a procedure to run the 2-4 warning templates on him for article-space, and such. I've dumped vandals at AIV before, but only in the strict format that's there: violate after 4th warning, vandal after return from block, violate NPA stuff. I even (lulz) looked to see if you were editing at the moment, to contact you personally - and then fired up my mIRC looking for admin/experienced user advice. I didn't want to just hit the sack, and turn him lose in mainspace - was feeling too old, too slow, and not up to speed on proper procedure LOL. Not the first time I got hit with vandal crap, but first time I ran across anything more than a hit and run, drive-by. Next time I'll know that I can just leave a line at AIV, and it'll be taken care of. Thanks again =D .. — Ched ~ (yes?) 14:52, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I expanded a little on the 1986 season. — Ched ~ (yes?) 16:26, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Tim Richmond

I did some work on the Tim Richmond article, but you'll need to check a few things: In the first paragraph summarizing his accomplishments, it states he had 13 NASCAR victories. In how many seasons of racing? It's in the later text, but it might be nice to see that up front without having to dig for it.

 Y Done
Par. 2: "the season-best seven wins" - is that his record or the overall NASCAR record?
 Y Done the most that any driver had that season. I reworded
Par 2: "When he missed the season-opening Daytona 500 in February 1989" - Is that a typo? Should 1989 be 1987? The rest of the paragraph doesn't make sense otherwise.
 Y Done typo
Par 2: "his career was ultimately cut short" - His life was ultimately cut short. What do you want to emphasize?
 Y Done Good point - changed to his life
Par 3 - I moved the "Hollywood" reference to the first sentence. Along with it went the citation at the end of the sentence. The doctor's statement is uncited. Was that citation supposed to belong to both parts of the sentence?
The doctor's statement now looks out of place to me, so I removed it per your next comment.
Par 3: I think you can take out the doctor's statement from the lead. It's explained below.
 Y Done
Last paragraph in "Open wheel racing" section: In one place it says he finished 19th; in another 9th. Does the first refer to the qualifying race, and the second to the actual race? If so, it's not clear.
 Y Done it was a typo, he finished 9th.
1st par. in "Nascar career": I reworded the last sentence, but you need to check to make sure I understood it correctly.
 Y Done That sentence didn't make sense as you had worded it.
Top 5, Top 10 - I made these lowercase, as they're not titles; change them back if they violate convention.
 Y DoneYahoo uses Top 5 and Top 10 in fantasy games and top-10 in text, uses either top-five or Top 5.

Hope this helps. --Sift&Winnow 23:23, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I still really don't understand this sentence (and if I don't, others might not, as well):

"He was running at the end of three races and each resulted in 12th place finishes."

Does this mean that he was at the back of the pack in three races, but was able to move up to finish 12th? Or does it mean that at the end of three races his car was still running, and he finished 12th? Or what? --Sift&Winnow 22:58, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Everyone needs to understand, so I'll explain in long form for you to help me clean up the working. He raced in 5 races that season. Of those 5 races, his car was functioning correctly at the end of 3 of these 5 races. The other 2 were DNFs (Did Not Finishes), which is a bad result. These 3 races all ended with his car finishing in 12th place. His best finish that season was those 3 12th place finishes. This is what I'm trying to say in one sentence. It's not very important and could be deleted if it's too hard to find wording that is not awkward. Thank you so much for your review! Royalbroil 00:57, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

It seems like too much for one sentence. How about:

That season he competed in five events, with two DNFs (did not finish) and three 12th place finishes. Overall he ended up 41st in season points. --Sift&Winnow 03:44, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
(ec) It was definitely too much, I gave the long explanation so that you'd understand. I see you now understand. I used your wording, changing it to reflect that he finished 41st in season points. One more editor who understands NASCAR is peer reviewing it and then I plan to propose it for Good Article. Royalbroil 03:51, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi Royalbroil. Sorry I've been scarce the last day or so - health issues flared up again. For the most part it looks good, I think. The only 2 things I see that I might change are: 1.) In the illness section, the second half of the first paragraph probably belongs up in the NASCAR section (it covers more of the race information that his actual illness.) 2.) And this one I'm not sure about - Richmond acquired a lot of awards throughout his life, and they are mentioned through the course of the article. I don't know if a list of those awards by year in the "Legacy" section would be considered redundant, or good summation. For the most part though, I think the article is good - and I don't know as maybe anything else I might try to change would do more harm than good. If I'm feeling better shortly, I'll double-check again though. — Ched ~ (yes?) 16:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
1) I did more rearranging. I like chronological order because things get disjointed, so I reverted the integrated text and changed the headings/rearranged. 2) Sounds redundant and unneeded. The very best items go in the NASCAR infobox, which has already happened. I'm going to nominate the article for WP:GA. You can edit it after it's nominated. I expect it to take about 2 weeks before it gets reviewed. Royalbroil 05:20, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Done for now

I finished up with what I could for now. I have a friend who I consider to be an excellent copyeditor whom I'm going to ask to check my work, since I don't have a great deal of confidence in my abilities in this type of writing yet. Also, down the road - I was wondering if we could/should add a list of all of Richmond's awards and such to the legacy section? I sandboxed the idea here. Double check my additions to the article, and if you feel that some things don't belong - I won't be offended if you remove them. I completely respect your judgment here - you have a great deal more experience at Wikipedia than I do. ;) ... Hope what I did has helped in some small way - let me know when the GA thing happens. — Ched ~ (yes?) 23:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

You did a great job on the copyediting! You were a big help. Copyediting is not a Wikipedia thing - it's a English/grammar/prose thing. I replied above on your other comments in this paragraph. Royalbroil 05:20, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Wow - Thank you for the kind words and confidence boost. It encourages me to be a tad more bold (probably a good thing). I really appreciate you inviting me to collaborate Royal - I don't take those kind of things lightly. Thinking back to when I first commented on the talk page (as one of my first posts), seeing how far the article has come, exploring how it got here, and actually being part of the process, certainly has made me feel very much a part of the community. This is why I signed up to be a wikipedian! I knew coming in that my past experiences were more weighted in the "essay" and op-ed (read: OR and POV) writing styles. The educational values of Wikipedia (along with the unspoken "fun factor"), amaze me. Thank you very much, and I look forward to working with you often in the future. ;) — Ched ~ (yes?) 02:12, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: Yukon Quest

Thanks for the compliment! I'll be improving the article as time goes by, with the goal of getting it to FA status. JKBrooks85 (talk) 08:32, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

  • If you have the time, I've just nominated Yukon Quest for GA. If you've got the time to review it, I'd be grateful. If not, I completely understand and will let it simmer in the GAN queue for a while. Have a good one! JKBrooks85 (talk) 11:32, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
  • I'm reviewing another article at GAN right now and I'm having trouble getting it done. Royalbroil 22:18, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you-

Many thanks for your comments about myself having rollback to revert vandalism.However, I am declining.One reason is my ongoing health problems.I had been going to urgent care for a bad cough that almost turn into pneumonia and I had some surgery also.Another reason the vandalism I had been reverting has been limited mostly to WikiProject Wisconsin.Again many thanks-if my health is better stronger, I will take a raincheck concerning rollback-RFD (talk) 14:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: Bob Holly

Ok, great. I have time now, so I can get started. I've been waiting over a month for a GA review, so I'm sure I can wait a few days for a pass! :) Thanks for the review, and I'll let ya know when I'm done with your comments. ♥NiciVampireHeart♥ 13:23, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Yep, all done! ♥NiciVampireHeart♥ 13:29, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks so much! ♥NiciVampireHeart♥ 13:39, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Well, on behalf of WP:PW I thank you! You're right, I've never had an article (I stick mainly to wrestling ones) reviewed before it appeared in the "oldest unreviewed Good Article nominations" box at the top of the page. Shame really. Your reviews are much appreciated! :) And thank you again. ♥NiciVampireHeart♥ 13:51, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

The happy blue ball of gratitude

Thanks greatly for adding that really nice picture to Vespula pensylvanica. I don't doubt that had I not failed to locate that picture myself before submitting it to DYK they would have chosen that pic to lead the DYK section of the front page. Peace and good wishes, --Boston (talk) 02:09, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

"You Are Everything"

Hey, thanks for the fixes/categorization on this article. I've been a little out of sorts with this whole thing, as recent signs have been showing. Unfortunately, I haven't got as much time on my hands for Wikipedia recently, although I wish I did. Which leads me to something else; even though you and others have been hopeful for my potential adminship in the future, I'm not sure it's going to happen. I'm not as aware of how the potentially nit-picky RfA standards are these days, but overall I haven't gained much "experience" lately. I might kick back into speed sometime—but I just thought I'd give you a heads-up about my recent thought. Best, JamieS93 14:52, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


Sorry about the confusion at Richmond. I left an apology at the article talk page, and thanks again for including me, and for being so patient with my newishness Bushism. Atlanta today ... woooo-hoooo! I wanna see Jamie Mac pull another one of those drifting moves ... LOL. ;) — Ched ~ (yes?) 15:20, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and in another mindset, I might mention - "U Rock" ... lol. — Ched ~ (yes?) 16:54, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

re: Heidelberg Raceway. I'll move it over to mainspace, and dig out the program info on past track champions. Left more info as reply on my talk page too. — Ched ~ (yes?) 05:12, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

OK - moved to Heidelberg Raceway Prime time! ... lol ... thanks so much buddy, another one of my "Boy would I like to..." dreams taken care of by a truly great wikipedian! — Ched ~ (yes?) 05:23, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK / Check this one

Hey thanks for your support in CCM. I want you to know that the appreciation is mutual, and is part of what makes this hobby so fun. I’ve just posted another article, Lust Control, which I think may fit on April Fools DYK. It’s certainly one of the odder Christian music articles that I have written, so enjoy. I have no mind to nominate it myself since I created it, but at the same time I wouldn’t want it to be missed. In a week or two I’ll have a good (though non-free) image to enhance it, too. Thanks again. Dan, the CowMan (talk) 23:47, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I looked over the article and it's a real April Fool's gem! A Christian band that talked so frank about sexuality is very much of an oddity. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE propose it so that I can certify it! If I propose it, someone else will have to review it. Royalbroil 01:10, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Alright, but I'll give it a few days for others (who may find it from the User:AlexNewArtBot lists or other places) to give it a go first. Dan, the CowMan (talk) 05:31, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Richmond question

I found an old People Magazine article that discussed Richmond's life a little more. It says that he was apparently serious about a girl in 1987, and asked her 3 times to be married. I put the link in the external links section (for now, at least until it's used as a ref) - but wasn't sure where to put the information. Should I create another top-level section below Early Life for Adult Life? or create a second-level section in Early life. It's information that doesn't really fit in the race sections. — Ched ~ (yes?) 02:56, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The article is used as reference #5 at the time of this writing, so I had read it. There had been some content in the article about this before I started. I couldn't find a place where it fit in and I wasn't convinced that it belonged in the article. Sounds like you disagree. Maybe the early life section could be retitled "Personal life". There shouldn't be a section for only a few sentences. Royalbroil 04:40, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
on the link - ok, did you remove from external links? On the info: you're prolly right - I'll see what else I can find, and if I find enough we can expand then. (by that time maybe getting closer to A-class?) (FA somewhere down the road?) or am I just being overly optimistic? Well, we'll see what GA does first I guess, an cross that bridge when we come to it. Thanks for looking ;) — Ched ~ (yes?) 04:52, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I tried FA once and nearly lost most of my fingers. I had to keep changing everything around - almost a rewrite. I'm happy to stop at GA. Royalbroil 00:59, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

File:Barack Obama - ITN.jpg

Is this image needed anymore? It has a temp file template. Royalbroil 04:38, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the note, Royalbroil. I've forgotten about this ITN image. I just deleted it. Someone has uploaded it to WCommons without the full edit history, so I wasn't sure if we need to keep it around. But I suppose it's okay to delete it, since I am responsible for all 18 edits and I wouldn't mind either way. So it goes.... --PFHLai (talk) 19:19, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind comment

I'm really glad you liked the sportswear (fashion) article, and it was very kind of you to describe it the way you did. It's not perfect of course, as I'm still looking for good copyright-free images that show great examples of high-fashion sportswear for it. It's just part of the tip of the fashion history iceberg on Wikipedia that needs a lot of attention...!Mabalu (talk) 00:08, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Expanded Article

Hey there RB, hope you have an enjoyable weekend planned. The reason I'm stopping by, is that I'm getting close to 5x expansion on the Rex White article. I'm wondering if it would soon (later on Sat.) qualify for a DYK: hooks: Smallest person to ever win the NASCAR championship, hook 2: Highest percentage of top 10 finishes (almost 70%). I think I'm gonna take a break from the article for a bit tonight, but will be back at it sometime tomorrow. I don't know how to submit for a DYK - so any pointers there would help. Also, any tweaks, and/or editing are always welcomed (as you know).

The other things: How do I follow what happened with the Heidelberg DYK? — Ched ~ (yes?) 05:02, 14 March 2009 (UTC)


LOL at the Earnhardt comment - hey we're all race fans, and I know plenty of good friends, including my own mother, who could not stand the man. Hell, I'll even buy a beer for a Kyle Bush fan (even though I may grumble a little under my breath) - what's important is the sport. And sure, I'm always open for suggestions, comments, coaching, teaching etc. The more I can learn, the better editor I can become. Have to run out shortly here to repair a client's networking issue, but I'll prolly be on this evening - and I appreciate all the help you've already given me, and I promise I won't mention (you know who's) name in following conversations ... =O — Ched ~ (yes?) 19:08, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK for It's Just a Plant

Oh really, more than one author can? I wasn't aware of that until now. I know, it is a very interesting book, I can't believe that the article was created just now. Oh well, I still get nom credit, so all is good ;]. FingersOnRoids♫ 18:28, 14 March 2009 (UTC)


You're invited to sign up as a founding member, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#WikiProject Historic Sites ! :) doncram (talk) 06:17, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I support the idea and urge others to join the group. I just don't want to join. I focus on my state only, which is covered under WP:NRHP. Royalbroil 11:55, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK Next update

I was just going to do it, but it looks like Peter Symonds is going to do it. If he doesn't, I'll come back and do it in half an hour or so, as I was just about to take a break. Won't hurt if it's a few minutes late, we don't have any kind of backlog. Gatoclass (talk) 12:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Gato. I'll be gone in a few minutes. Royalbroil 13:00, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
  Done Gatoclass (talk) 13:19, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: Mr. Kennedy

Well, thank you Royal, it is most appreciated; Thank you for taking the time in reviewing the article. :) --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 19:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Being Bold

I created User:Royalbroil/Coaching and User:Royalbroil/Coaching/Ched per your offer here. Since you're an admin anyway, i didn't figure it would be any big deal because you can delete and move to be organized in the manner you choose. I've also added questions to the Ched part. Hope I haven't overstepped the "be bold" part. ;) — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 19:22, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Saint Patrick's DYK apology

Sorry about that. I thought the description under the header "Song meanings" was enough and that citing in the track listing would be messy. Although I meant to point out at DYK that the RTÉ review also mentioned the track listing. And have just discovered that I placed the wrong RTÉ review in the article... :( --Candlewicke ST # :) 01:57, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! I must now upload the album cover of Shots before it appears on the Main Page. --Candlewicke ST # :) 02:04, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

In the name of the Grandfather

Since you're doing the St. Patrick's Day update, I thought it would not hurt to mention that for In the Name of the Grandfather, the episode in which The Simpsons go to Ireland, we somehow ended up with a hook that doesn't even mention Ireland. Maybe there were some eligible ALTs? Happy St. Patrick's Day. --Boston (talk) 02:09, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Long hook on the Meteors

I'm actually gobsmacked! :-O I'm not Lisa Hannigan's biggest fan or anything but that's the fourth time I've submitted that image for a Lisa Hannigan-related DYK and, with three failures, thought it wouldn't stand a chance against the international Grammy Award-winning might of Sinéad O'Connor! Thank you! Also this will be the first time my own GA will be on the Main Page! :) She'll never get rid of the Damien Rice tag! :) --Candlewicke ST # :) 02:46, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Wow, again I'm amazed. I thought she was off my radar as some sort of international superstar who would have plenty of Americans and others willing to bring to GA status. I may have to do that in future... crybaby because of that video that made her big outside her own country? --Candlewicke ST # :) 03:05, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
I would think she is known more here for (apart from her music) her declarations of lesbianism plus religious matters. Strangely enough I found myself in the same room as the father of one of her children this day last week... --Candlewicke ST # :) 03:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Info noted

Hey Royal, I did read your posts (my UT, coach/ched) hope I didn't miss any. Copied your help to my study page in case you didn't want the coach/ched pages here. I'll get to the Earnhardt page before too long (probably .. lol). Sounds to me like you're already an IT guy, you're just not getting paid for it .. lol. I've wished a couple time recently that I hadn't used my real name here as well, but too many edits to change now I guess.

  • I added a stats table to the Rex White article, I've seen it in other NASCAR BLP's - do you want me to work one up for Richmond?

Hope all is going well for you ;) — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 09:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh ... on the Earnhardt/Kyle Bush thing - I guess sometimes we're (or at least I'm) not fair to the drivers. I met Earnhardt several times, very nice guy, and always willing to go out of his way for fans. Sounds like Bush may also actually be a nice guy too, judging from what you said. I suppose anyone can have a bad day, especially when you've got thousands of people booing you, 20 cameras and 50 microphones stuck in your face and all. I'm not gonna promise to be a fan, but I'll remember what you said about how he can be a decent sort of fellow. ;) I'm probably rooting for Mark Martin this year as much as anyone - best driver to not have a championship maybe. — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 09:29, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
How about you move the page to your userspace since you're the one being coached? It's not like I would use that page if I happened to coach someone else. I'm okay with keeping the page and I'll keep in on my watchlist. Sure, please add an information box for Tim Richmond. Alan Kulwicki could use that same information if you feel up to it. I wouldn't add a date for the information on either of their pages since they're both dead. Royalbroil 11:39, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Page moved: User:Ched Davis/Edit Training. I'll do the Kulwicki and Richmond articles, but may not get to it for a few days yet. I didn't do anything else but the move, since you're an admin you can delete the redirect and root folder left behind. Don't ya just love it when new guys leave ya more work to do? ... lol ;) — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 21:26, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
It takes only a few seconds to delete a page, so no big deal! Take your time on the tables for Tim Richmond and AK, there's no rush. I would prefer Richmond be done first so that it's ready when the article gets GA review, but if the review is already started then please do the Kulwicki article first. It's best if you use as the source, which can be found here. I can cite the data if you don't know how. Usually you put a reference on the first piece of data. Do you know how to reuse a reference (use one a second time)? Royalbroil 22:30, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
No problem, and yea - I enabled the cite and ref buttons for the edit bar a long time ago - then I just use the named ref to repeat. I try to have the original ref as the first cite, then named ref afterwards. I've actually been trying to help another editor with refs on a different page, some tourism site or something. The only time I really dig out the wp:cite templates is if I need something for DVD or TV show or something not covered by the button. I'm assuming that when the person starts the GA review that they will post a notice on the talk page to the /GA Review page - but I'll double check the entry first as well so I don't conflict with the reviewer. Glad you mentioned the link, I would have probably used the site; nascar one looks like it may be easier to use as well due to format. I'll drop you a line and keep you updated - I think you'll find I'm usually a pretty quick study when it comes to learning things (although the memory isn't what it used to be). — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 23:15, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  • oh.. and I've noticed that there are two different ways to cite a named reference, is one preferred over the other? 23:18, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
You mean on the bottom of the page? I don't know if there's a preferred one, I always use the References section only. I think the sources section are for listing the books used. See Wikipedia:REFERENCES#How_to_present_citations. Royalbroil 23:40, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Richmond stat table

I added the table, left it in order it was in on NASCAR site .. (did I say that right?). Anyway, if you want me to invert table so early years come first ... just let me know. — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 02:46, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Lisa Hannigan update

I'm afraid that Lisa, despite being nominated in two categories, could not even win an award at her own country's national music awards a number of hours ago. :( --Candlewicke ST # :) 03:10, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, well. A nom is better than no noms! Royalbroil 03:11, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
True. Three noms actually if you count the Choice Music Prize she lost to Jape a few weeks ago. :) --Candlewicke ST # :) 03:13, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK update

Update's more than four hours overdue. From queue 1. Shubinator (talk) 01:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

OMG, I'm on it! Royalbroil 01:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Thank you! Shubinator (talk) 01:28, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
No, thank YOU! I was on here almost 2 hours and I hadn't checked the queue. My watchlist had lots of problems. Royalbroil 01:30, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
That's funny, apparently there was also an issue with editing T:TDYK for an hour. I guess Wikipedia's been glitchy. Oh, it looks like I just got my first GA...hopefully that isn't a glitch :) . Shubinator (talk) 01:34, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Wow, congratulations on your first GA! They're a lot of work. Believe me, each one gets easier because you know what to expect. They help with making better DYK articles because you start with something better. Royalbroil 01:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, that one took a lot of my time. It started out as just something I wanted to improve (kind of like DYKcheck), and I kept building on it. It was kind of my first article (technically it's not...I haven't created any articles from scratch yet). Hopefully I can get it through FAC when I get the time...maybe in a few months. Shubinator (talk) 01:56, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
I suggest that you do several GAs first to get more experience. FA is extremely tough. I tried FA with my third GA and I wasn't ready yet. Royalbroil 02:05, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


Have you ever had Cookie salad? ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:14, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Never heard of it. Sounds yummy - I'd try it! Royalbroil 04:22, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
It needs a photo. Although from the ingredients I think we could use the snickers salad photo and no one would know... ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Closing April DYK nominations

Please read the template you deleted! --Boston (talk) 03:00, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm in the middle of updating DYK right now. Royalbroil 03:09, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
  • There is a message for you on my talk page. --Boston (talk) 03:32, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Heidelberg Raceway

  On March 20, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Heidelberg Raceway, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Dravecky (talk) 04:14, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Double DYK reply

Thanks. --Candlewicke ST # :) 13:28, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Crew chief

I've accepted Drdisque's explanation and restored the article jimfbleak (talk) 06:40, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


On the Rex White article ... so the part about "in today's value" should, or should not be there? .. I thought it should not, but I'll follow your lead on that one. ;) — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 08:49, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

read it again, and I pretty sure you agree that putting today's value in there is wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong. — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 09:01, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 Y Done We don't need speculation/original research. Money needs to be understood in historical context. Royalbroil 13:10, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Sonia Chang-Díaz

Thanks for looking at the Sonia Chang-Díaz hook I suggested at AFDay DYK. I have tried to address your concerns; please take another look if you have time. Thanks. --Boston (talk) 10:01, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


I got the table added to the Alan Kulwicki article, and I posted my thoughts to the talk page. Also, Congratulations on finding a good pic for the article!!! Can we use any of the pictures from Flicker for articles? Was it me, or did Bristol seem a bit less rowdy than usual this weekend? Hope all is going well on your end, — — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 20:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC) (pun intended)

so in the future: to change or insert distance for something - {{convert|860|mi|km}} - is the right way to do it. I'm guessing that it (that particular template) works for other conversions as well. Where can I find the info on proper ways to format it? — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 01:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
wait .. wait ... let me try "template:convert" to see if that's what I'm looking for — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 01:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
OK .. figured it out (yea) - there's also a /doc with it too. I'll read up on that. See - you help even if you're just listening to me, and letting me talk things out ... lol. — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 01:50, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Rain has pretty much killed my internet for the past day. You are correct about convert. Template:Convert has many variables; you are expected to provide metric and English conversions for everything. There are many options. To use it as an adjective use |adj=on like a 50-mile (80 km) hike. You can specify the number of significant digits, etc. Royalbroil 03:00, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Gotcha Day

Hey Royal,

I think I have a hook that would be perfect for AFD, but wanted to run it by ya first. I still think GOTCHA DAY is a must for April 1. So here are two ideas:

  • ... that on a day that people often say "gotcha" not everybody is celebrating?
  • ... that while April 1st is April Fools, a proposal in 2005 would have made Sept 15 Gotcha Day?
  • ... that while many people will say gotcha today, a 2005 proposal would have made Sept 15 Gotcha Day? ---I'm Spartacus! NO! I'm Spartacus! 14:55, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
It sounds like the article and hook have nothing to do with April Fool's, rather they have to do with April 1st. There is precedent to allow topical DYKs to be held beyond the normal 5 day period. Is this what you're asking for? Royalbroil 02:11, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Drew Blickensderfer

  On March 27, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Drew Blickensderfer, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 07:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

check me?

hey there Royalbroil, how you doin today/night? I know this isn't exactly an editing question, but while I was was doing some NPP editing and such, I ran across an article and added a CSD tag. Since it's very seldom that I'll nom anything for deletion (I'd rather fix than delete) - I wanted your opinion on if I did the right thing: diff. thanks. — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 07:29, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

I ended up removing the tag after looking through some google stuff. I guess in a way it is notable, so I shouldn't have used a CSD. — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 09:03, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Yea, any mass-produced vehicle like this motorcycle is definitely notable, no matter the current state of the article. I would have declined your speedy had I encountered it. I wrote a basic introduction, added a category so it could be found, and added {{multiple issues}} to it. Royalbroil 11:42, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
sigh ... soooo much to learn. Glad I did check stuff out myself - doesn't look quite so bad if I revert myself as if someone else finds my mistakes. I read through WP:N again, checked Google, and finally went to IRC - where an editor named Chzz spent some time explaining a lot about various deletion things. I should probably drop a thank you note on his talk now that I think about it. Glad you looked at the article too, I was just glad I got back to it in time to remove the CSD tag, I guess I just removed it and ran, glad that I wasn't caught so to speak. I probably should have stuck around and worked on the article a bit - but I was tired too. I don't ever want to be too much of a "delete" editor, other than voicing an opinion at XfD noms, but I do want to be familiar with what is right and wrong too. Glad I have you to pester with the "Hey, did I do this right?" stuff. I used to bother Huntster with that kind of questioning all the time, but he's not on a whole lot anymore. If I ever get too annoying with my questions, just poke me with a "I'm kinda busy right now" kind of reply - I'll try to get the hint. ;)
When you mentioned improving on the Paint.NET - you meant you wanted to find a better program? .. rather than improve the WP article about Paint.NET?
Hopefully I can get back to some NASCAR stuff here this coming week, I kinda promised TenPoundHammer I'd try to do a little work to the Alabama (band) article too. Strange week here for me - I'm not even sure where we're running tomorrow .. lol.. now THAT is sad - guess I'll go read up on the site now, see who's on the pole, where, etc. — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 17:12, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
NASCAR is running at Martinsville Speedway - banging each other around on back to back 1/2 mile tracks! I don't think that anyone will think that you were a jerk for the CSD on the motorcycle. That article was in horrible shape. Sometimes you have to read between the lines in cases like this. I've encountered numerous notable subjects that I declined speedy deletes in cases where it was in horrible shape like this one. So course, I'm sure there are plenty of admins who would have speedy deleted the article. Royalbroil 20:12, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Yep. Looks like it may be a rainy weekend there too. J. Gordon, Edwards and both Busch brothers qualified well I see. Might be a pretty good race. I know it hasn't been the sleeper it used to be since they redid the surface a couple years ago.
Anyway - have you looked over the "guideline proposal de' jure" (not sure I spelled that right) .. Wikipedia talk:Date formatting and linking poll. It would be nice if they got a consensus in some reasonable amount of time, but I'm not going to hold my breath on it. I remember chipping in at the Notability (fiction) proposal early on ... I think that one will live forever ... lol. For right now, I'm going to use Month #, year - if someone changes it - I'm not gonna worry about it. As far as links - I've already seen a bot come through and de-link dates, so I'm not going to obsess over that one either.
Sorry to hear you're still fighting winter there - we're pretty much into spring now in PA. Still some chilly nights, rain storms and such - but I think the snow and ice are done for the year. Hope you don't lose your Internet, but sounds like you think you may. Well, have a good weekend - maybe if you get enough of a storm you could sleep in tomorrow instead of having to get up for church? Have a good one! — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 20:51, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
I went to church tonight, it was PACKED. I need the time to work on that computer anyhow. The snow just started... Royalbroil 23:59, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

editing coach question

← How'd ya like that Johnson pass on Hamlin at the end today? Good thing Hamlin never caught back up to him .. lol. Anyway - back to the editing coaching: An editor friend asked me a GA question about Norton Internet Security on my talk page. I've tried to help him where I can on the article and all, but I wondered if you would look at my reply to see if I'm close to the right answer. I think I have an understanding of the question, and what the actual answer is, but I'm not sure I worded it right. Thanks ;) — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 03:29, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Possible April Fool's hook

I know you've got quite a few hooks lined up for April Fool's, but could you take a look at one more? It's Sergey Degayev on the regular nom page. It definitely has potential...I had originally put it in next update, but then saw the twist. If not, that's fine, we'll run it in regular. By the way, I can "speed up" the LocalUpdateTimes template for April Fool's if you want (an integer number of hours between updates is easiest for me to code). Shubinator (talk) 05:32, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi! I added two new hook suggestions to Wikipedia:April Fool's Main Page/Did You Know. There is probably room for them in Queue 5. Also, I expanded Peter Jackson (table tennis) to become long enough, and banana beer is long enough as well. Hope they are included. Thanks, Punkmorten (talk) 23:12, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

April Fools Project

Tomorrow is April Fools Day. What are the plans for the day. I am willing to help you do whatever it takes to make this succeed. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 00:57, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

There's lot planned. I don't know everything that's going to happy, but I've seen a lot. It will be FUN! The picture of the day is ready, 4 queues full of Did You Know (DYK) hooks are ready (but might see some last minute adjustment), the In The News people are discussing their hooks, and the featured article is ready. Not much to do anymore. The admins will have to promote the DYK hooks like normal - other than that it looks like everything is done. Royalbroil 01:15, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Lisa Love

I was hoping for more than just a "disagree" - where's the evidence of notability? Or do you disagree on other grounds? Thanks. Mr. Darcy talk 01:47, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

She's the senior editor at two very notable magazines. Speedy deletion is only for cases of obviously non-notable people. There may be enough notability right there, so a full discussion (or at least prod) is warranted. Royalbroil 01:54, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I'll throw an afd on there at some point, but just for the sake of defending my position, an article may be speedily deleted if it "does not indicate why its subject is important or significant." I don't see how this article does so for its subject. She's a "senior editor" - but not THE senior editor, since even the article indicates she's the senior "west coast" editor, which implies at least one layer above her - for one magazine and its spinoff. I was actually more concerned with whether anyone thought her presence on IMDB was sufficient to avoid SD. Thanks. Mr. Darcy talk 02:46, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I did think that her acting career and the IMDB reference added to the notability. Vogue is a major magazine, which is why I contest. These are the thoughts that were going through my head. Royalbroil 02:50, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

King Lear

Fixed the hook and offered an alternate as well. Wizardman 02:23, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

More April Fool's planning

I fleshed out the helper templates for the user talk page DYK credits for April Fool's, and I posted on the DYK April Fool's talk page about it. It's not much, but it is a bit different. Anyways, there are also new DYKAFmake and DYKAFnom templates. There are two options here: 1) Go through the queues and replace DYKmake with DYKAFmake, etc. or 2) Redirect from DYKmake to DYKAFmake, and from DYKnom to DYKAFnom, for those hours. DYKmake and DYKnom are editable by anyone, so I can try to watch for April Fool's starting/ending, but I can't guarantee I'll catch it before the next regular update goes through. Shubinator (talk) 05:19, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Mazo Beach

One of the editors has been deleting the citations to the Mazo Beach article. One of the other editors and myself have reverting the edits and have ask this editor to explain on the article's talk page why the citations should be deleted.So far no response.Very frustrating.Thanks-RFD (talk) 10:18, 31 March 2009 (UTC)


I don't know if you worked with him on any of the Wisconsin articles, but if you did, then I extend my condolences to you as well for the passing of User:Nitelinger. I didn't know him myself - but I wouldn't be surprised if you did since you both worked on similar articles. I'm always sad in a way to hear of anyone passing away - but my own personal religious beliefs allow me to see things a little differently at times. Reading through some of the contribs, it appears he was a great editor - and I'll pray that God take good care of him (my personal beliefs - not meant to preach or suggest any one belief is better than another). — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 11:19, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't recall crossing paths. I share your strong religious beliefs and I'm saddened to here about Nitelinger's passing. Royalbroil 11:44, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Happy April Fools!

  Happy April Fools' Day!
Hey, it's finally the day...! Some of you have been really anticipating it, and helping Wikipedia by preparing nonsense for the Main Page or doing other silly stuff. It's only 1 day out of 365, so us overstressed wikiholics should use the day to look at things a tad differently. ;) Have fun! JamieS93 01:56, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

April Fool's DYK for The Holyland (Wisconsin)

  On April Fool's, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article The Holyland (Wisconsin), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.  

Thanks for your great work in putting the April Fool's event together this year! Gatoclass (talk) 08:13, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, awesome work! You guys really brought it together at the end. JamieS93 13:25, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


Congratulations on the article about Wisconsin's Holyland article getting the DYK honor. This was overdo considering the work and research you put in it-Many thanks-RFD (talk) 11:10, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I was aiming for April Fool's Day all along - April Fool's or bust. Royalbroil 11:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Nice picture on that article, too. -Freekee (talk) 02:53, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! The church is on the National Register of Historic Places. I'll have to go to church there some Sunday and get some pictures. The church has been around so long - it was the first church in the wilderness between Green Bay and Milwaukee. Royalbroil 04:17, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

April Fool's DYK for Chili Bowl

  On April Fool's, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Chili Bowl (race), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.  

Nice hook :) Gatoclass (talk) 16:14, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


diffChed :  Yes?   : ©  19:31, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Quick problem

You seem to be the go to guy around here for DYK. Could I get you to do me a massive favour and change "that Brawn GP's one-two finish at the 2009 Australian Grand Prix was the first Formula One team to do so on debut at a Grand Prix since 1954?" to the more grammatically sound "that Brawn GP's one-two finish at the 2009 Australian Grand Prix made it the first Formula One team to do so on debut at a Grand Prix since 1954?" in Queue 1? Thanks. Apterygial 09:55, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Done. That's an interesting fact! Royalbroil 11:41, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
It's meant to take time to plant a team solid enough to win a GP in F1, not everyone has a major vehicle manufacturer throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at their team and being crazy enough to pull out when they finally have a good car! Thanks, Apterygial 11:44, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Exactly! I'm surprised that a team in any major auto racing series is able to be so successful right out of the gate, especially in the world championship. Are you sure it's only C class? Looks like a high B that's closing in on becoming Good Article candidate. Royalbroil 11:51, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Please add a wikilink and define "steward" at List_of_motorsport_terminology#S. Royalbroil 11:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Honda were working on the car 18 months ago while other teams were busy winning championships. I've added a rough definition to the list. The article needs a copyedit and probably a paring down of the detail in the race section, but it is looking good. I'll wait until Cs-wolves has finished with the article before I change the rating. It'd fail the stability criterion at the moment anyway, those stewards in F1 are so trigger happy, even days after the event (I was watching the Daytona 500 today, Earnhardt Jr. would be penalised so much for that hit in F1 he wouldn't be able to walk!) Apterygial 12:09, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

OK .. I need help

I uploaded my first pic at here. I have NO idea what to do now. I started looking .. the ARCA article, the Frank Kimmel article ... I thought most of Wikipedia was already here .. geesh .. there is SOOO much to do!

OK ...Let's go from here .. now that I uploaded a picture .. (and I'm sure I'll get a "your picture will be deleted" notice.) what do I do from here? — Ched :  Yes?   : ©  11:00, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

edit?Ched :  Yes?   : ©  11:29, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Help .. am I doing this right? — Ched :  Yes?   : ©  11:30, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I don't see any major problems. The license is good, all you needed was the category. I added it to ARCA's category. I found ARCA's by looking for the stock car racing category. I found that category by looking for Category:NASCAR, going up one level, then down a level into ARCA. You can add it to Frank's article. I'd add it immediately below the infobox - I usually put images on the right side until the article gets longer than Frank's article is. If you upload NASCAR pics, note that there are Commons categories for NASCAR cars that break down by the model. Without looking, I think one is "Ford Thunderbird in NASCAR". Royalbroil 11:35, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand what you mean by adding it to the ARCA's category. I don't see a change on the WP ARCA page, or a history tab to look at the "File:Frank-kimmel-JennerstownPA2007.jpg". I'm sorry I'm so dumb on this part at this point ... just never uploaded a pic before. — Ched :  Yes?   : ©  12:19, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
OK .. should actually be Frank-Kimmel-SalemIN2007.jpg. The help desk said that only an admin could change file names. Are "commons" and wikimedia the same thing? Are we allowed to put very small "Photo by:" watermarks on pics? Are the 800x600 size files the preferred size? When I looked at my contribs, it say 0 files uploaded - is that because I uploaded to wikimedia? Is that the right place to upload pics, or should I somehow find a way to upload directly to wikipedia? Sorry to hit you with all this at once Royalbroil, hopefully you had a good day at work ;). I'll try to be more careful in naming files before upload in the future. — Ched :  Yes?   : ©  00:30, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I was talking about the categories on Commons. Commons and the English Wikipedia are separate Wikipedias. Commons is the file storage location for all of the Wikimedia projects, like all of the Wikipedias, Wikiquotes, Wiktionarys, etc. of various languages. We can't rename images. The best option would be to upload the image to Commons again, then tag the original image with {{badname}} (or is it {{bad name}}). A Commons admin will delete the original image. Commons is separate from Wikimedia - Wikimedia is the place to discuss items that affect all of the Wikipedias. Commons is the files storage location for all of the Wikipedias. No watermarks are allowed - if someone finds them they'll crop it out of the image. Royalbroil 01:30, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


Delighted as ever. Especially now that I've reached the rather dizzying heights of having Fox News feature my ITN contributions... however, most disappointingly, they didn't notice dear Philip, oh no... ;) gotta love their line, "Every item on the home page of the user-generated site Wikipedia is fake." Very offensive to us all. --candlewicke 17:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Good job! I googled my nom on the Chili Bowl (race) and found it in an article on CNET [2]. Yay, me! Royalbroil 22:26, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Frankie Rayder/GA1

@Talk:Frankie Rayder/GA1 - we are already past the GA Hold period. I happen to agree with all of the additional points you raised, but I do think the article needs a bit more work. Perhaps the GA Review should be closed at this time to allow for a more substantial reworking than would be prudent in the GA Hold period? Cheers, Cirt (talk) 02:09, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I give the other person leeway if they attempting to make progress. Especially since it takes so long to get a GA reviewed - why make it sit in bureaucracy for so long? It's ultimately your call, especially if you feel that the changes are significant. Royalbroil 02:15, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
You seem to have good ideas and a lot of rational input and certainly a fresh view on the whole thing is welcome. I will defer to your judgment about this. How much leeway/time would you say is appropriate? Cirt (talk) 02:17, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I would expect to see at least some progress every few days or so, except if the other party said that they're gone for the weekend or whatever. I doubt Tony wants to see the article go through another month(s) wait at GAC, so I doubt that timeliness would be an issue. I never worry about the GA Hold period if I see that someone is making reasonable and appropriate effort - WP:IAR. I suppose if it was hold for a month, but of course it probably would have started too far away from GA shape... Tony's real awesome at fixing problems like this. Royalbroil 02:26, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Ah okay quite reasonable, sounds good. Cirt (talk) 02:30, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Let me know what you think of the responses.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:00, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I just responded that it looks good to me. Royalbroil 05:01, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I pretty much don't have anything else to add - why don't you finish up the review. Cirt (talk) 07:15, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I was done. I hope I commented on all of your points. I won't be around here very much until about 2 days from now. Maybe for just a few minutes, but that'll be it. Please don't wait for me. Royalbroil 12:09, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I do not quite feel comfortable passing this article as a GA myself, but if you wish to, like I said above, I will defer to you on it. It still has not had a copyedit and improvement with respect to flow from a previously uninvolved editor. The body of the text first introduces the fact that the individual has a notable sister way down in the Personal and family section - this is inappropriate as chronologically, she has had a sister and a "family" for quite some time - some of this material needs to be moved into the Early years section (which should ideally read Early life or Early life and family, instead). I still think that Notable affiliations and appearances appears chronologically out of order in the article's body text as well, and should be merged into Career highlights - but "highlights" is an odd title for a subsection, perhaps simply "Career" with two sub-subsection breaks for periods of time. These are all reasons why the article still has odd flow and chronological problems. But like I said, if you disagree with this stuff and feel like these points (which I had already raised at the GA review subpage a few times) are not an issue - feel free to pass the article as GA yourself. Cheers, Cirt (talk) 20:05, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Feel free to give this another look.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:08, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time to do render a second opinion and give good guidance.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
You're welcome! I hope that it has helped to improve the article. Royalbroil 02:16, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your reviewing work on this one. Cirt (talk) 00:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you

A lot of people came together to make April Fool's happen for DYK, but you were definitely the most active. You brought us all together and kept the gears working. It was a great April Fool's, and I look forward to the next! Shubinator (talk) 02:54, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome, I'm glad it turned out well. Royalbroil 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

DYK Update

Another update due, from queue 1. I can do credits. Shubinator (talk) 04:07, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, please credit. I'll work on it. I'm at my sister's house, so it'll take me longer. The screen resolution is very poor. Royalbroil 04:10, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you! Shubinator (talk) 04:23, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you! This would have been very hard to do alone. Royalbroil 04:25, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
The best projects are collaborative :) Shubinator (talk) 04:29, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Yet another update due, from queue 2. As usual, I can take credits. Shubinator (talk) 00:15, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! The crediting is yours. Royalbroil 00:16, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Excellent, thanks! I've got a question for you...a couple of times I've tried uploading DYK pictures temporarily to En, but it doesn't seem to work. I get a warning saying the same picture is on Commons. Can only admins override that warning? Shubinator (talk) 00:26, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't know, please try it! I'd like to know. Make sure that you add the template {{C-uploaded}}, which is easiest if you do it before uploading. In theory, the image should be automatically protected by cascading protection, but I tested to find that it wasn't working. I could edit the image without receiving any warnings. Protected items give a pink edit screen. So I've been protecting the image. Royalbroil 00:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, just tried with File:Mumbai BMC headquarters.jpg, and I get "Upload warning A file with this name exists at the Wikimedia Commons. You can: * go back and upload this file to Wikipedia using a different name. * upload it to Commons, if your intent is to replace the image that already exists with a better version." Oh, and with the cascading protection, an editor at the Village pump suggested purging the Main Page to help it kick in. Shubinator (talk) 00:38, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Wow, you're right. It doesn't work and I can't see any options. That does help me, as it explains why it's safe for an image to be protected only at Commons. This will be a helpful experiment very soon. I had to see how it works with my autoconfirmed Alt account. Purging the main page cache is part of the DYK updating process. Thanks for trying! RoyalbroilAlt 00:49, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

British Pickup Truck Racing Picture

My mate photoshopped that picture for me, along with some of other teams. I've replaced the image with something a bit less obvious. I didn't take the picture because I am in it, but it was taken with my camera and handed to me straight after it was taken. [[3]] Violentbob (talk) 08:39, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


Congratulations on your success at Commons! I've already got a request for your new responsibilities...could you check the DYK queues once in a while and protect the images at Commons (and tag with {{enwiki main page}})? I think it would be much easier than doing temporary uploads. And since the queues are pretty full these days, you'd only have to check a little more than once in 2 days. By the way, a few hours ago the On This Day picture was vandalized at Commons. Shubinator (talk) 02:56, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

 Y Done I appreciate your support! I was careful to not broadcast it here on the English Wikipedia until well after planned closure time because I wanted the Commons regulars to evaluate me on my own merits. Royalbroil 03:11, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! Yeah, I didn't notice until right now, otherwise I would've pitched in my !vote. Ah well, less drama = good. Shubinator (talk) 05:29, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


You there? I got a question for you... Shubinator (talk) 01:39, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm here. What's your question? Royalbroil 01:40, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I noticed someone had created a talk page for an article I'd created with just {{talkheader}}, and slapped the article with {{expand}}. I showed the editor that tagging like that isn't appropriate. Now he's responded on my talk page saying "Your not an administrator or rollbacker." What do I do? I'd usually try to talk to the editor, but in this case it seems like he doesn't want to talk with me. Shubinator (talk) 01:44, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I'd give you rollbacker privileges. You're only the second person that I've offered this to, as I initially opposed the concept. Which article has this controversy? I'll look at it and give my opinion on both issues. Royalbroil 01:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Heh, thank you for the offer. I might find it useful here and there. But it shouldn't matter what kind of user rights an editor has; each editor should have the same weight on Wikipedia. My article is Metropolitan Magazine (New York), but his contribs show he's hit quite a few pages. The expand template explicitly says it shouldn't be used if the article is classified as a stub (editors commenting during its TFD also said stub should not overlap with the template). Shubinator (talk) 01:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't see the problem with using the {{talkheader}} template on the talk page. I guess if Michael wants to waste his time... Maybe it's part of the automated tool Friendly. The article looks reasonably well expanded to me, so I argue against using the expand template on that article. Royalbroil 02:06, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm a new page patroller and I'm just doing my job..--Michael (talk) 02:10, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
And your efforts to keep the junk articles away from Wikipedia is appreciated! I've done some new page patrolling myself. It's a good place to watch for speedy deletes. Please consider ignoring whether or not someone's an administrator or rollbacker. It really shouldn't matter to you. Someone's opinion should be considered on its own merits. Someone with 3400 edits may have seen and done a lot and could even be close to being considered for adminship! Royalbroil 02:18, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Ok.. I will do that. Thank you,--Michael (talk) 02:23, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. Shubinator (talk) 02:35, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:BerlinWisconsin.jpg

Thank you for uploading File:BerlinWisconsin.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Radiant chains (talk) 05:10, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

  • Check the history on the page - the image description was vandalized. An anon user removed the license to put on links to different photos. I have reverted the vandalism. Royalbroil 11:46, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Mario Andretti nationality

I can't give you sources, but I know that an Italian can lost citizenship only renouncing to be Italian. He never did. The same is for Carla Bruni. The mistake was created by FIA that choose to use only American citizenship for him, to promote F1 in USA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:30, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Mario's article has been extremely difficult to deal with because of his original nationality. We have passionate people on both sides fighting for Italian vs. Croatian. You need to provide a reliable source, I'd prefer to see many reliable sources, then we'd have to discuss it on the article's talk page. Royalbroil 03:10, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

The Admin's Barnstar

  The Admin's Barnstar
Your doing a great job. Keep up the good work. Your work is appreciated. Michael (talk) 19:28, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Tim Richmond

Hi, I am reviewing your article Tim Richmond for GA. It is a fine article. I have only a few comments which I entered at Talk:Tim Richmond/GA1. Please feel free to contact me with any comments or concerns. Regards, —Mattisse (Talk) 21:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


just noticed that we were editing at the same time .. check I didn't mess anything up. Also, am I right in saying congrats. - that you got admin. on commons? And, I picked up 3 very good resource books for NASCAR:

  1. NASCAR: A Fast History. ISBN: 1-4127-1155-X
  2. American Stock Car Racers. ISBN: 0-681-07594-5
  3. The Unauthorized NASCAR Fan Guide 2004. ISBN: 0-681-27587-1

Once I get through the funeral and taxes, I'll get back to editing the NASCAR articles next week. On a side note, if weather is decent, I'll be going to the ASA race in Toledo OH. over weekend of April 25th. Will try to get some decent pics. Any drivers in particular you're looking for?

  • Hope all is going well on your end ;) — Ched :  ?  03:58, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Well "CONGRATULATIONS !!!" then - (even if somewhat belated ;)). Personally, I have no problems with canvassing within reason - I like to be informed about things that are going on behind the scenes. There should be a choice of banners for user pages:
  1. This user wants to be informed about what is going on, feel free do leave me messages about Wikipedia happenings on my talk page or ..
  2. This user does not want any advertisements posted to his talk page.

ya know, a good old-fashioned opt-in or opt-out choice.

Anyway - as far as what things to work on - I guess I really need to get more familiar with the project space on this. I did copy the Earnhardt article over to a sandbox, but that's going to be slow "bit-by-bit" improvement I suspect. I definitely will be adding some of the pre-NASCAR (NCSCC) to the main NASCAR page. From there, probably mostly the older stuff. I know there is an importance scale, I guess I'd want to check much of the high end of that out first. Is there a section that has "This needs done ASAP" stuff? I'd imagine it would be best to work on the poorest articles, with the highest importance rating - so any and all links are always appreciated. I'll get the books added to the resources section sometime tonight too. Of course I'll want to continue any improvements to the Richmond and Rex White articles as well. I'll review some stuff like Tiny Lund, Red Byron, Bill Rexford, etc. Always feel free to drop me a note to point me in a direction that needs work, and I'll also feel free to ask you to look over the upcoming photo uploads I'll be doing.
I'll make sure I take a list with me to Toledo (if weather is decent), and do my best for pics too. Have a good one ;) — Ched :  ?  12:09, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
My reply above is worded poorly. I mean that you should take pictures of those drivers at the ASA race. I don't expect you to work on any particular NASCAR article, just was wondering what direction you wanted to head. I remember that we talked about it, but I can't find your listing of what you wanted to work on next. As for National Championship Stock Car Circuit (NCSCC), I think it should have it's own article since it was distinct from NASCAR. Even though Bill France as involved, it was a separate venture. I'll put it high on my To Do list. An interesting article for DYK. Royalbroil 23:18, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh heavens Royal, I know you well enough by now to know that! (the should thing). I was fishing for suggestions. I saw that both Earnhardt and Mark Martin are high on the list of articles that really need some work - so I figure I'll work on that. The NCSCC thing might be tough - but we'll see what we can do on that. RS can be tough with history stuff, but it's what I'd like to work on. Let me get through the early part of next week, and I'll be more focused on the NASCAR project. One thing I did want to get some input on ... The Earnhardt article - that whole section on legacy just doesn't fit. I think it would be better to have a list that's separate from the main article. There's tons of songs, TV specials, movies, etc. I think the legacy section should focus on the impact that his life and death had on real world situations. (in the main article). Then split off a "legacy" list of songs, etc. What do you think? Believe me, when I get more than a dozen edits into any NASCAR article, I'm gonna be coming to you, pestering you , what do you think? Don't ever sweat anything you say to me ... if I'm not sure what you mean .. I'll ask.
Funny how the GA thing works .. Norton NIS went up and got reviewed within 2 days (yep, I'll take a lot of credit on that one) ... and yet Richmond sat for a month .. sigh .. oh well - at least we got it going now.
Also, I wanted to mention - Anytime you think I'm headed in a wrong direction, please let me know - I give you free reign to monitor me in all my actions and posts. Not that I expect you to babysit - but if you see something that makes you wince, let me know. Cheers buddy, ;) — Ched :  ?  02:02, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem, let me know if you have questions on anything. It's not pestering. I don't watch your editing (like you said), but I'd let you know if I do see something odd. I hate how the Earnhardt article has the legacy/songs section - it's one big trivia section that should be deleted. Maybe someone would consider it to be notable enough for it's own article ... I'm not convinced.... but I'll keep an open mind. I'm not surprised that Richmond took a month to be reviewed. The WikiProject Wrestling articles usually wait over one month. NASCAR isn't very popular with reviewers either. Royalbroil 04:57, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: Thank You

Your welcome. Keep up the good work!.. Do you like my new signature. --Michael (Talk) 19:13, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Yea, I do like your new signature. It is much more interesting the bland default, yet it doesn't take up a bunch of characters! My colors are from my college alma mater. Royalbroil 22:42, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

DYK stuff

Thank you! Could you protect the picture that's live too? Shubinator (talk) 03:25, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, Howcheng had protected it but didn't add the template. I added it. I was promoting the next update queues to queues 6 & 1. Royalbroil 03:29, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I just noticed that. Thanks! (And congrats on the GA!) Shubinator (talk) 03:31, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! I'm happy that the article was in good shape. Royalbroil 03:32, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Hrmm, a bugzilla person commented (in response to the cascading protection bug) Most likely because they are on commons which is completely false. I don't have a bugzilla account, so could you give the links to images vandalized? (This diff for a temporary uploaded pic and this pic, which was always on En) Shubinator (talk) 03:18, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

That's...interesting. Maybe they think you're saying that none of the images are getting cascade protected, but we're saying it only happens sporadically. I'll see about getting a Bugzilla account. The main problem is an email address...all the ones I have now are kind of traceable back to me. I've got an appointment with RL this week and next, though, but I'll see...maybe over the weekend.
They have to realize, though, that this edit at 19:17, 10 April 2009 shows File:Lyon0002soft.JPG going on the Main Page, and (unless I'm mistaken, I don't have access to the deleted contribs) it was vandalized around 2 hours later, ~21:00. The image was taken off of the Main Page with this edit at 01:20, 11 April 2009. The file was on English Wikipedia, and always has been. No matter if the Bugzilla guys can reproduce the bug in their sandbox, the fact is the bug exists, and the evidence above proves it. It isn't a "local problem" with admins not getting the protection message, actual images on En on the Main Page have been edited and vandalized while on the Main Page.
And here's another concrete example, the one I tested out: On the Main Page at 06:25, 22 March 2009, edited minutes later by me, taken off the Main Page at 12:24, 22 March 2009. This one was originally at Commons, but was temporarily uploaded to En, and was on En for the duration (from 06:25 to 12:24). (Feel free to copy this post to Bugzilla) Shubinator (talk) 06:41, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
*facepalm* Ack, it is not a local problem. Them suggesting clearing the browser cache shows they think it's local. They can call it Martian for all I care, but English Wikipedia Main Page images have been edited while on the Main Page. I'll try and get a Buzilla account tonight or tomorrow...this is ridiculous. Really busy today, otherwise I would sooner (actually, probably shouldn't be online now). Shubinator (talk) 15:09, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

In case you need more evidence, on the latest update, File:Tomb of Sofia Afentaki.JPG was on the Main Page at 19:04, and I edited it at 19:11. Shubinator (talk) 19:13, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I've got an idea! (Still don't got a Buzilla account though, you'll have to relay this if you think it's good.) When the numbered queues were first made, Ameliorate! made a DYKlock page that was cascade protected, and therefore protected all pages and images transcluded on that page. The cascading protection was recently taken off because it was protecting next update. I think I see the problem though; in the code for the DYKlock, {{Did you know/Queue}} should be taken out. Next Update is transcluded on the master queue page, so of course the cascading protection would trickle down to it. Now add {{Did you know/Queue/6}} and you should be set to add cascading protection back in. Then images in the queues would be protected before they hit the Main Page. This would only fix DYK images, though; ITN images would still be at risk. Of course, the best solution would be instantaneous cascading protection for any image added to the Main Page (possibly send an alert whenever a transcluded page is edited to see if the image changed?), since a few times a month the Featured Article image needs to be swapped out (off the top I can recall Meningitis and Shackleton–Rowett Expedition this month).
Also, if we're not doing any more test edits, it would be nice to get Commons protection back :) Shubinator (talk) 05:36, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
By the way, BorgQueen has said that ITN images are almost always manually protected. Would be nice to have an overarching solution to the problem though. Shubinator (talk) 06:00, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


Hey Royal, just wanted to stop by and say Happy Easter. Hope it's a good one. ;) — Ched :  ?  20:58, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! I hope that you, and everyone else, had a Happy Easter! Royalbroil 03:59, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
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