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Self-explanatory; people who don't get the meaning of "history" when compared to "current events." Care to weigh in ? History_of_Montana#Recent trends and Talk:History of Montana. Medicinal pot "historic?" Montanabw(talk) 06:42, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Done.PumpkinSky talk 12:20, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
And it continues.Intothatdarkness (talk) 23:13, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
I think I've quit caring. I still don't think medicinal MJ belongs, but at the moment I could use some! Seems like all of WP is exploding at the moment. (See my talk page). Montanabw(talk) 23:03, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
And he/she is at it again.Intothatdarkness (talk) 15:37, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

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I took care of the park but have no idea how the Reichsgulden would be termed here nor what it was worth. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:28, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
That ends up at Reichsmünzordnung so I'll use that unless you feel there's a better page to point to.PumpkinSky talk 12:11, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, makes sense, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:21, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Marktkirche Unser Lieben FrauenEdit

The article Marktkirche Unser Lieben Frauen you nominated as a good article has failed  ; see Talk:Marktkirche Unser Lieben Frauen for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article.

Per your request ♫GoP♫TCN 13:54, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, but I could care less at this point. PumpkinSky talk 13:56, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


You recently reviewed my article Rhinesomus for DYK, for which thank you.

It has since occurred to me that the three other fish articles I have recently written probably suffer from the same problem with regards the reference to the FishBase site, each one being in a similar form to the one you said was dead. The fish articles are Stegastes pictus, Stegastes fuscus and Stegastes leucostictus. I have checked the FishBase references for these and they work for me, but it would be helpful if you could test them, and change them to a more appropriate format if they fail. I note that when I tested the url you used for the Rhinesomus reference, it was redirected for me to the url that I had used originally. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:42, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

The fish base links in those work fine. Go figure. PumpkinSky talk 21:00, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Murphy Complex FireEdit

  Hello! Your submission of Murphy Complex Fire at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Jezhotwells (talk) 22:58, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

You're holding it up because of image display? That's not a valid reason. Approve it and make a note about the image. PumpkinSky talk 23:03, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Ask Materialscientist for a crop, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:17, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
  • does this help at all? — Ched :  ?  23:40, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
COOL thanks!PumpkinSky talk 23:53, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Polly Bemis HouseEdit

The DYK project (nominate) 15:33, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Nice! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:35, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
But it's got such a small photo....oh, wait, it doesn't!, couldn't resist...congrats! Dreadstar 18:16, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
ROFL ALL, thanks guys. PumpkinSky talk 22:24, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Wilson Butte CaveEdit

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:03, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


Hi, I'm fairly familiar with the area in the west that you're writing your articles about and am happy to see these being expanded. The Wilson Butte Cave brought memories of a childhood outing - strange, hadn't thought about it in years. At any rate, I think the Yogo Sapphire page is very good, and exactly the type of thing we need on Wikipedia. I'm ashamed to say that I'm a westerner and did not know about Montana sapphires! I wouldn't worry about the images at the moment. I'm quite busy in real life right now, but if and when I have a chance I'll give a copyedit if it still needs one or if you'd like to have one. I've put it on my watchlist in the meantime. Truthkeeper (talk) 16:09, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Sure. I need all the help I can get!PumpkinSky talk 16:11, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
I have a question - has this article had a top-to-bottom copy-edit from anyone? It's going to need some polishing - no pun intended, but writing is exactly like making a gem sparkle - and I'm thinking it might be better to submit it to the GOCE first. Then for a second pass, I'd be happy to swing through to polish more. I don't have a ton of time at the moment and can't really do it justice. How does that sound? Truthkeeper (talk) 03:07, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Oh yes, Casliber, Nikkimaria, Malleus, and some others have worked on it. Nikki probably spent the most time on it. I think you should rework the text in regards to your inline question. the para in the ref says "Rock Creek is unique in that it is the only placer deposit in Montana that was mined before World War II solely for sapphires (the other areas were mined for their considerable gold content). Mining commenced at Rock Creek around 1906 and was fairly steady until 1943, when synthetic corundum replaced natural sapphire for many commercial applications. Mining records indicate that 190 million carats of sapphire were shipped from Rock Creek between 1906 and 1923. Rock Creek has been mined more extensively and produced more faceted gems during its 112 year history than any of the other sapphire deposits in Montana (including Yogo)." It seems to have gone down a lot but still more productive than Yogo. Doesn't GOCE take a long time to respond? PumpkinSky talk 03:13, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Yep, re 4,129 articles in their backlog, back to July 2010.PumpkinSky talk 03:16, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Here's the thing - I think you're sitting on a really interesting topic and you've done a lot of good research. Looks like you began around the end of October. I haven't looked at the history to see how consistently you've worked on it, but I see you've done a lot of edits. Word count is about 5000. My suggestion is to walk away from it for a while. The reason I say this is because I think it's a really promising page on an interesting piece of western history, but it still needs work. Most of the pages I get through FAC, I've worked on for months. The first one I took to FAC, I worked on for over 9 months. But what I do is walk away and work on other pages and then come back with a fresh perspective. You're the expert on this subject; this is your baby, but don't try to rush it. GOCE has a section for FAC requests, not sure exactly where that is, but the wait is shorter. I'd still tell you to take a break from it though. You have lots of other pages to be expanded, so I'd work on some of those. In the meantime, I'll chip away at this when I have time, but I've got about four other articles going at the moment, and precious little time for wiki. But I am interested in this. Truthkeeper (talk) 03:24, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Posted to GOCE in the shorter section.PumpkinSky talk 03:46, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I'll keep an eye on it. I'm calling it a night. Truthkeeper (talk) 03:53, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

pre FAC reviewEdit

Nice article on the Yogo! Srs.

Some quick thoughts:

1. Pretty decent prose, but I do see places where we could tighten it up. Make it more readable.

2. Location needs a better map. This will be "work". But it will really pay off. That section now is very dry and abstract and listy. Making a map that shows all the things referred to in text, will then make it much easier on the reader to follow the text. Process may even help you understand things better. I know some graphics peeps. So don't feel like this is another task on you.

3. Would also be nice to have some more variety of images. Perhaps sometbhing showing the igneous dike (what is that?) Something showing crystal structure (trigon, rhombohedral stuff). Something showing (and a bit more discussion) the iron and titanium electron structure, d orbital crap) to say where the color comes from. Perhaps some line chart showing produciotn per year or price or what have you.

TCO (Reviews needed) 01:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

For a location map the one in the Meyer ref could work as a guide for those graphics peeps mentioned above. It puts the dike on the topography which combined with a good topo map ... Would be better to have one w/ more detail, mine locations, etc. Maybe Montana puts geologic maps online like Idaho does, will see what I can find. As for images of the dike itself - might be hard to find, know anyone in the area with a camera. As for the crystal structure, will think about that. The Fe and Ti and color ... gets real technical fast, will think a bit on that, no promises though. Vsmith (talk) 02:42, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
No sweat...just tossing out ideas. I know it is more work. I was thinking for maps, obviously some plan view that shows all those towns and rivers and such. For the dike, I wondered if some cross sectional diagram could be drawn from scratch. I am wondering what that means (does it have a certain shape)? Could get one of the "peeps" to redraw something like this or this. (If one of you is a geologist, perhaps you know better what to show or even if the 3-d structure in Yugo specifically has something intersting.)TCO (Reviews needed) 03:02, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Found and downloaded an MS thesis by one Guylaine Gauthier for the Univ. of British Columbia: Mineralogy, Geochemistry, and Geochronology of the Yogo Dike Sapphire Deposit, Montana. It has detailed maps of the dike and mine workings ( ). The Voynick book may have this also (just ordered a copy for a penny + shipping :). Still thinkin'. Vsmith (talk) 11:17, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
I have the Voynick book too. It does have a sketch map of the location. Wiki email me if you want me to scan it and send you a copy. PumpkinSky talk 11:22, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Holy Cow VSMITH! That is some highly detailed and technical stuff! Probably the most such thing and details on the Yogo site and gem ever done. Can you digest it for us for the article? I'll try but I won't understand most of it. I guess the drawings are copyrighted to UBC?PumpkinSky talk 11:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
A quick note: be careful about how you're using MS theses - see WP:SCHOLARSHIP. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:20, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
So far I've just skimmed through it, will take a more detailed look when I get some time. The title page has a copyright note in whch the author claims copyright. Vsmith (talk) 22:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

M.S. thesis is a good find. She (?) has a lot of citations to other papers, so in those places would just go and use the original papers. (make sure we actually get it, Wiki Ref Desk will help.) The beginning chapters of theses are really good places for lit review. If we end up needing her actual field work (think some isotope dating and microprobe analysis), we could get someone to look at the thesis who is a geologist and the details of the Wiki policy and argue that. (This is probably a better source than a lot of the newspaper citing we do, and that M.S. policy is not hard and to keep junk at bay, especially in controversial areas.) That said, a Google scholar search showed that her thesis was not cited by others (bad sign). Also found a slew of other scholarly artices on the Yogo geology: [1] so you may be able to get the info you need from those. If you somehow think the thesis is super useful to a reader (as a lit review), we can also put it down in "Further reading" if we don't ref it directly.

EL that says "JSTOR article" should probably be retitled to put JSTOR at end and in parens. Paper mayb be usable as a reference (someone at Resource desk can get it for you).

I would also be ready to defend the usage of the other website content. And minimize it. (Not saying you can't and don't want you to lose valuable info, but need some proof that it is an expert opinion, not hobbyist rifraff like us.) If there are places where you can cite to stronger sources (like the "JSTOR article" is a good source for Russel), would replace as many of those as you can. Wiki articles, when starting, tend to grab other websites as refs since that is so easy. And that is better than nothing. But still better is real books and journals.

TCO (Reviews needed) 15:21, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Don't know that any are currently used. I noted the one above as useful for its detailed maps. Other use of it not recommended yet. However, an MS thesis from a reliable university would be far better than some of the commercial jewelry/gemstone websites currently used in the article. Vsmith (talk) 15:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I skimmed it. It is good work. I have some related experience and that thing did not give me any bad vibes. Would stick up for it, if we need it and someone is citing Wiki policy against it (which is not a firm though shalt not anyhow). I mean it is not like it is an M.S. on curing cancer by yoga or something.TCO (Reviews needed) 15:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
FYI, I do have access to a university subscription database system, so if you have something from JSTOR or anywhere else that is only available as an abstract without paying $$$, I can probably get it for free. Montanabw(talk) 18:45, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Good, may take you up on that offer as I'm out in the boonies with no access to a good library.
And, to TCO, I have a geology background and did some work with an electron microprobe in my MS thesis research (an "ancient" manually controlled unit back in the early 70s). Vsmith (talk) 22:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Holden/Marolt problemEdit

Yeah, I sort of thought they might be when I created it. However, I had no choice in naming the article, and no way around it. You should bring it up at the template talk page. Daniel Case (talk) 15:27, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Murphy Complex FireEdit

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Suggestion: Archive Talk:Yogo sapphireEdit

PumpkinSky, I've been noticing recently that Talk:Yogo sapphire is getting quite lengthy and is getting a bit unwieldy to navigate. I would guess that most of the conversations have been closed, and that perhaps their contents are no longer critical to the improvement of the article. The size of the talk page is about 124 kilobytes, so it's getting up there, but since it's not on Wikipedia:Database_reports/Long_pages I guess it's not critical just yet. But it's a thought to consider; it's not my responsibility but I figured I'd contact one of the main contributors to the article about my thoughts. Perhaps you could move off discussions more than a month old. That would help a great deal I think. I know that User:Wwoods has experience with archives and whatnot, so that's just one person you could talk to if you need help or something. He archived Talk:Folding@home out of the blue for me when it reached 165 kB. Jessemv (talk) 02:37, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

That crossed my mind so I'll go do it. PumpkinSky talk 03:41, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Looks a lot better! Perhaps it could just be called "Archive 1" though. I'm not sure of the real convention, but I don't ever recall seeing a date as a name. Still, the page is much easier to navigate now! Jessemv (talk) 04:02, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
The archive is called Archive 1, just the visible label is the date. This is how I've seen lots of talk pages set up, as is mine. PumpkinSky talk 12:52, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Works for me. Actually, once the article is ready for FAC, not a bad idea to archive most of the rest of the talk in order to avoid people bringing up stuff that's already been hashed out by the active editors. Montanabw(talk) 21:45, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Camp DisappointmentEdit

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


(looks around) oh dear – you didn't see the banner? :/ (condensed form) Basically, Wikipedia is protesting against the Stop Online Piracy Act, by "blacking out" - nothing will be visible but a banner for the whole day on January 18, but according to Philippe (who works for the Wikimedia Foundation), there's some kind of "emergency" workaround to that. Hurricanefan25 (talk · contribs) 02:09, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Geez. Protest but don't essentially take down the site. PumpkinSky talk 02:11, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
The discussions have now been closed. Wikipedia will not allow access to its articles (except for SOPA and related pages) for the entire world for 24 hours on the 18th. Let's stand back and watch the world erupt in confusion. Jessemv (talk) 03:04, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
What a bunch of buffoonery. PumpkinSky talk 03:12, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Maybe. Read the bill and decide for yourself. You've probably seen the big black banner by now, but see: Jessemv (talk) 03:21, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
HA! The community didn't decide Jack Shit!. Sue and Jimbo decided this and they don't speak for me.PumpkinSky talk 03:23, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Well I'm sorry you didn't vote and get your voice heard. 1800 Wikipedians did, including me. There was a banner asking for votes. Jessemv (talk) 03:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
The banner did a lousy job. I didn't realize from its wording what was going on. PumpkinSky talk 03:35, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Politicizing what should be a neutral encyclopedia is a horrible idea. Now wiki is a political action committee. PumpkinSky talk 03:37, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
I agree with your first statement, but not your second. I highly doubt it will decay into a lobbying site. Multiple Wikipedians brought that up in the discussions, and I believe it was also mentioned in the official statement. SOPA affects this site so much that we will be impacted whether we take action or not. I think it's better to make our opinions known, and then go back to continuing our overall goals: building a free and neutral encyclopedia. Jessemv (talk) 03:42, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
  • I supported the soft-blackout click-thru banner thingie (cause I really think the SOPA thing is wrong in many ways) .. but it does seem Jimbo really wants to make a point with "his" website. The more I think about it ... don't we block people for disrupting the site? — Ched :  ?  03:53, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Brilliant Ched! Go block Jimbo for disruption! PumpkinSky talk 10:47, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Support, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:42, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Tip: copy and paste all your working-on-them articles into text documents with entire citation templates, infoboxes, etc. Then work on it offline until WP is back to normal. That's what I'm doing ;) Hurricanefan25 (talk · contribs) 16:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
"WP back to normal"? ... an interesting concept. :-) — Ched :  ?  16:58, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
What the heck, 24 hours of no vandal patrol or reverting tendentious editors! Whew! I need the vacation, might actually get more work done at the office... LOL! Montanabw(talk) 23:30, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Now THAT is an excellent and original viewpoint. Yes indeed! :D Jessemv (talk) 01:06, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Back online. Hello again! :D Jessemv (talk) 05:08, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Har har. They should have just put up a notice like Google and Commons, not lock down the whole site, that part was a horrible and crass idea.PumpkinSky talk 11:02, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
I was so damn busy yesterday I might not have gotten online much anyway, and I must admit it was nice to see a whole day with only five bot edits on my watchlist, no vandal reverts and no tendentious editing disputes. They ought to force us all to take a break like this a couple times a year, just for the heck of it! LOL! Montanabw(talk) 17:26, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Welcome backEdit

I survived; did you?

and I agree - a "click-thru" would have sufficed. — Ched :  ?  11:20, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Another Tshirt for my collection ;-) Yea, for sure a total blackout was way overboard.PumpkinSky talk 22:13, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
yea ... Google and had it right I think. It's one thing to put a banner up - but shutting everybody out was not the way to go. — Ched :  ?  23:46, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, but Reid pulled the markup, so now everyone has been encouraged. Montanabw(talk) 00:58, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Nagle Warren MansionEdit

  Hello! Your submission of Nagle Warren Mansion at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! – Muboshgu (talk) 20:22, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Fixed.PumpkinSky talk 22:12, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Curt Gowdy State ParkEdit

The DYK project (nominate) 16:15, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Hynds LodgeEdit

The DYK project (nominate) 16:15, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Nice to meet you on the same set! Please have a look at Horst Janssen, if you have a moment, the one who portrayed the father-in-law of Guido Dessauer, if you have more moments, father and son Hans Dessauer, the latter an easy DYK: wrote the book "My years with Xerox, the billions nobody wanted". I want to wait until Tuesday. Janssen would be a 2*BLP if 8.5k chars but I think I rather pursue other topics. At least I added some art to women, wives and children. All these articles are not mine but related (and inspired, if I may say so), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:16, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
It is neat to be in the same set, eh? Will look.PumpkinSky talk 23:01, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Made tweaks to two of them.PumpkinSky talk 23:07, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Thank you! Tricky to say "became Xerox", that happened somewhere in between the two figures. - Yes, to have a DYK in a set with two I reviewed looks nice. Enjoy the lake and the granite, the concentration camp and "my sighs" were more serious, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
And yours is right below mine! PumpkinSky talk 23:15, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Nagle Warren MansionEdit

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:03, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Kluge HouseEdit

  Hello! Your submission of Kluge House at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Montanabw(talk) 06:31, 22 January 2012 (UTC) 220 chaacters in hook, proposed a shorter version, otherwise good to go! Montanabw(talk) 06:31, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

What do you think of my ALT on WT:DYK? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:05, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Commented there. PumpkinSky talk 17:03, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Where? (Sorry, left a messed up edit summary on the house, hit save too fast, hope you understand anyway) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:21, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Template:Did you know nominations/Kluge House see 12:25 entry.PumpkinSky talk 21:35, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
I thought that was closed. I pointed at this, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:47, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Christmas Gift HouseEdit

No, that wasn't an approval; if it had been, I would have used one of the check marks that you'll see on other nominations. I'm simply expressing my preference for hooks and waiting for someone else to approve it. Nyttend (talk) 22:40, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

OK. PumpkinSky talk 22:41, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
By the way, please don't use for citations: it's quite unreliable. See the Kluge House for an example: you had an area figure of ten acres instead of one because that website misinterprets data from the National Park Service's actual database. I'm not attempting to say that you're falsifying information; rather, this is a problem that a group of us discovered only after long investigation. If you're writing an article about a place listed on the National Register, you can easily get an infobox by going to and putting in the name of the property. Be sure to use the name on the Register, which generally formats personal names lastname, firstname; for example, the Christmas Gift Evans House is listed on the Register as "Evans, Christmas Gift, House", so that's what you have to type. It's generally simpler to type just part of the name and search within a state; for example, Evans' house is the only place in Montana on the Register whose name includes "Christmas". Nyttend (talk) 22:47, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
I didn't use but you did remove Find the Data. Is that the same? I didn't know NRHP had a project, nor about that website. See my article list (link at the top), I've worked several historic places. then what do you use for a ref if you use that website? I've also noticed that NRIS template only goes to the home page, not a page on the historic place in question.PumpkinSky talk 22:58, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Towit this that you just put on Kluge House, it's just the home page, no info on Kluge at all, not even if you put Kluge in the search box, that's why I was removing them.PumpkinSky talk 23:00, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
There are multiple ways of getting information from it — that's the download page from which you can pick any of several versions of the main National Register database. The database has information on every property. From here you can get the information to populate the entire infobox. It looks like this page is taken from the same database: it has all of the same types of information (even the "Certification Date" and "Certification Status" fields), and like (which you had been using, at least with Kluge; you linked to this page), it makes errors such as getting the area wrong. Did I answer all of your questions? I'm not 100% sure what you're asking, so I probably overlooked something. Nyttend (talk) 02:41, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Sorta. I played around on the NPS page and found advanced search (but not search) and download work. I'll work on my prior NRHP pages. I'm surprised that template you useNow if those two sites you mention use the same db, how do they get things wrong? Also, NRISref uses a date format I detest. Is there a way to change it? Template doc is mute on this. PumpkinSky talk 02:54, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, still confused: what do you mean by "wrap up questions please"? The area figures for the downloadable documents (at least older versions, which I have on my hard drive; they've substantially revamped the documents recently, so this may or may not have changed) from NPS omit the decimal points from the area figures, and if you don't realise that, you're going to think that the areas are ten times the size that they are. NPS documentation discusses the issue, but you won't realise it from just looking at the database. For more details (which, again, may not apply to the current version of the database), you can read the final full section at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Archive 31, which is where we first became aware of the issue. If you go there, you'll see that a major participant in the discussion is Elkman — he's the one who runs, so he's been careful to make corrections when problems such as this one come up. Nyttend (talk) 03:01, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
OK. But you missed a question...NRISref uses a date format I detest. Is there a way to change it? Template doc is mute on this? be more explicit, the Template:NRISref displays dates as YYYY-MM-DD. Is there are way to make it display as January 22, 2012? Also the date it displays is the database version date and it doesn't display a retrieved date at all. These sorts of issues are a big deal at GA and FA and somewhat at DYK. PumpkinSky talk 03:13, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Don't know about the accessdate thing, although I can assure you that it's not a DYK issue (it's never come up in any of my 130 DYKs), and none of the 3 GAs with which I've participated has discussed the issue. I'm not sure about the date formatting, although I should note that the Y-M-D is ISO standard and common here on Wikipedia; I don't know why it should be changed. I'd suggest that you raise this issue at WT:NRHP, because other people who read that page are likely to know better than I do. Nyttend (talk) 03:39, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
PumpkinSky talk 11:02, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Do you mean Template:NRISref/doc? It's not at all protected, so even unregistered users can edit it. Nyttend (talk) 00:33, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Just noticed that and edited it. Feel free to tweak.PumpkinSky talk 00:34, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Actually, it does work; I've gotten it to display as "July 9, 2010". You typed "myd", and we didn't set it up to have a "July 2010 9" option, so I changed "myd" to "mdy". Nyttend (talk) 02:48, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
DOH on me! Thanks. PumpkinSky talk 02:57, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Kluge HouseEdit

Orlady (talk) 00:02, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Bot updated listEdit

You do understand that this is a bot updated list, right? Any new articles will automatically show up there, and the old ones you removed will be added to this page, provided they have the WP:NRHP tag on their talk pages. No human editor need ever edit that page.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 03:45, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

No I didn't know. Then the bot doesn't seem to work right because if you noticed it missed some older ones, that's why I thought it was manually done. Or perhaps it's a question of: what does the bot key off of? PumpkinSky talk 10:53, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
See my original comment: "provided they have the WP:NRHP tag on their talk pages." Do the missed articles have the project tag?--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 00:30, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
The bot hasn't run since Jan 14th. Why so? That explains the DYK ones and the new articles list does not seem to be handled by a bot at all. PumpkinSky talk 01:22, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
The recognized content bot runs periodically, not daily; it will update sooner or later and erase/correct any additions you or anyone else have made in the interim. I agree that almost two weeks is too long of a gap, though. Maybe the bot operator is on vacation or something. As for the new articles list, you are correct that it isn't bot-run. This page, which is included at the bottom of the linked page in a scrollbox that says "Click [show] for a bot-updated list of new articles that might also be under the scope of this project," is updated by a bot every morning, but the articles not in that list (those with Template:Alr ratings) are added manually.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 02:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
So should I add any new NRHP articles manually? Sorry I'm a bit confused. I get it--do not add DYKs manually though.PumpkinSky talk 02:55, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
You only need to add new articles to the top of this page, using Template:Alr. Everything else is done by bot.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 04:12, 26 January 2012 (UTC)


For your next project on German fachwerk I created a shortcut, Fachwerk (Germany), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:00, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Danke. Sehr interessant. Ich brauche wiki-werk. ;-) PumpkinSky talk 22:46, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Home of PeaceEdit

The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Dearborn River High BridgeEdit

Mifter (talk) 16:01, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Cranberry CreekEdit

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll have to decline: besides my schoolwork, I need to spend time organising pictures that I took two weeks ago and haven't yet sorted, and I spent most of today on a trip to get photos at a couple of rock shelter sites in southern Indiana. Nyttend (talk) 04:12, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Oops, forgot to respond to your first question. The NR nomination form is definitely a reliable secondary source; while property owners sometimes put them together, they're vetted by the SHPO and the National Park Service, so we can count on them removing problematic bits. To get more information (including perhaps a nomination form), go to and click on Juneau County; putting the necessary information into the blanks should give you appropriate results, but it timed out on me. You can also email an address that appears at; many state historical societies are willing to distribute redacted copies of NR nominations, even for restricted-address sites like this. Nyttend (talk) 04:19, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Let me clarify — SHPOs are often willing to distribute redacted copies of nominations for restricted-address sites, and to distribute complete copies of nominations for other sites. If the Wisconsin SHPO doesn't want to do that, or only wants to do that for a fee, you can get copies for free by going to this page — send an email to the first address, nr_reference. Tell them (precisely) the name of the sites in which you're interested; the reference number (which you can get from Elkman's generator) for the property is important to include, since it's a unique identifier, but you should also include the property name and location. Nyttend (talk) 13:11, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
The Wisconsin link is just a repeat of the the NRHP info.PumpkinSky talk 13:14, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
:-\ Lonesomehurst appears here. Confused, though; why do you mention it? Would you like some sort of advice? Nyttend (talk) 04:32, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
When I searched the NPS database and Elkman's db, it did not show up. I was just curious if it was because it's a new listing.PumpkinSky talk 12:37, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I wondered if you'd mentioned it to me before only to have me forget about it. Don't copy anything from that document: the topo has been modified by an unspecified party (yes, even the captions and other small additions make the resulting map copyrightable), the old photos may not have been published before 1923 (quite stupidly, our law makes it possible for photos taken before 1900 still to be copyrighted if they've never been published!), and the new photos are mentioned on page 25 to have been taken by Joan Brownell, who (according to page 20) was a consultant, not an NPS staffer. Documents submitted to the NPS for National Register listing are not official works of the federal government (unless they're federally created; for example, some nominations of NPS-owned properties are prepared by NPS staffers), and simply being hosted on government websites doesn't transfer or extinguish the copyright. I'm sorry — if this weren't the case, it would be far easier for all of us, but it's simply not safe to use any of those images. Nyttend (talk) 21:40, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
SighPumpkinSky talk 21:44, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notificationEdit

Hi. When you recently edited Bozeman Carnegie Library, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Doric (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:05, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Will do, Mr. Bot ;-) PumpkinSky talk 13:45, 29 January 2012 (UTC)


Thank you for brilliant ideas and assistance, for making me think and smile, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:35, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Bozeman Carnegie LibraryEdit

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:03, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I think that perhaps you should read this. - Sitush (talk) 13:59, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
FTR, I have been talking to PumpkinSky over the past days via email, and brought one article with close paraphrasing up. PumpkinSky's response was that he is leaving Wikipedia. Amalthea 16:13, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
I am going to look into this, but not today, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:49, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
@Amalthea: oh dear, that is unfortunate. I presume that there must be a backstory that is not known to me. (Nor do I need to know it). - Sitush (talk) 19:29, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

ANI noticeEdit

I have opened a thread about you on the administrator's noticeboard. See this Raul654 (talk) 20:47, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

See above, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:07, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Strong support for returningEdit

There is strong support for you to return to editing. Please see the thread at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Propose community ban for User:Rlevse / User:Vanished 6551232. I don't know the ins and outs of how to do it, but if you would like to return to editing I suggest you say so, and things will be arranged by the grownups in charge, if any can be found. Regards, --Ninja Dianna (Talk) 18:04, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

  • I hope you decide to come back. When presented with a proper forum, the community has spoken in a positive and supportive way.(olive (talk) 18:47, 2 February 2012 (UTC))

Rlevse's actions as bureaucratEdit

FYI: WP:AN#Rlevse's actions as bureaucrat. If you wold like to make a response please post it here and an editor can copy it to the AN page.   Will Beback  talk  02:38, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Stop being so sanctimonious Will. Only that I have full proof of your attempt to blackmail me over this and have sent it to arbcom.PumpkinSky talk


I have undeleted the e-mail exchange from your talk page history, with Will Beback's permission. As I told him, it was a terrible idea to post them here in the first place, but now that they're being discussed it's better if they can be discussed intelligently and accurately. If you decide you don't want your part of the e-mail to be public, let me know here and I will re-delete them again. 28bytes (talk) 05:34, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Extended content
Thanks for admitting you were in shanigans behind my back! And AC was in on it! 
You are now blocked from my email account. So don't bother sending me things 
---- Will Beback <will's email> wrote: 
> The ArbCom is already aware of these allegations, which we all agreed need 
> not be aired publicly so long as Rlevse did not return, and which 
> NewYorkBrad told me would be dealt with if Rlevse should return. 
> There is no question that Rlevse has returned, although the current account 
> has been blocked. 
> Despite my request, Rlevse has not committed to not returning again. 
> Therefore these issues should be dealt with publicly to prevent a repeat. 
> -Will 
>I readily admitted I am PSKY so what's the news? I am not BM as you and others 
>You haven't violated anything? HA. Try blackmail of me. Hounding and stalking of 
>others, etc. 
>Now that your blackmail backfired, go for it. But be careful, it could and 
>should backfire on you. 
>AC--you have full notice of this. 
>Will--leave me alone, no, don't leave me alone, it'll be more proof of how you 
>hound and stalk other editors.   
---- Will Beback <will's email> wrote: 
> Ah, so it is you. 
> I haven't engaged in any "shenanigans". I haven't violated any Wikipedia 
> policies, in letter or spirit. 
> Since you do not seem to care about the issue, I will post a full account 
> of your work as a bureaucrat and the participation of JoJo. 
> See also: 
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 3:42 PM, <r's email> wrote: 
> > Will: 
> > 
> > Proof I called your bluf and sent this to arbcom and am not afraid of you. 
> > 
> > Now you leave me alone. 
> > 
> > R 
> > ---- r's email wrote: 
> > > Just so you guys or not do what you want. All I ask for is a 
> > receipt that this was received and read. 
> > > 
> > > R 
> > > 
> > > > Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:35:10 -0500 
> > > > From:  <r's email> 
> > > > To: will's email 
> > > > Subject: Re: Wikipedia Rlevse 
> > > > 
> > > > And OBTW, I've sent this attempt at blackmail to arbcom. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ---- r's email wrote: 
> > > > > You are so full of shit and the biggest hypocrit ever. Your threats 
> > don't scare me. The good thing this every day more and more people become 
> > aware of your shenanigans. You can kiss my ass. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > ---- Will Beback <Will's email> wrote: 
> > > > > > After your original departure, I participated in the clean-up 
> > effort to address your many problem edits. As part of that effort I came 
> > across your history of closing AFDs as a bureaucrat, in particular those in 
> > which user:JoJo participated. I have not discussed this matter publicly, as 
> > I thought that there was no point in dragging your name through the mud if 
> > you'd left the project. But if you keep returning then the whole "RTV" 
> > thing was just a deception too and I will air it publicly. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Since you've returned once, and possibly twice, without 
> > transparency I am now looking for an assurance from you that you will not 
> > do so again. Please reply at your earliest convenience. Otherwise I'll 
> > assume this is part of an ongoing pattern which is likely to be repeated, 
> > and act accordingly. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > -Will 
> > > > > > 
:01:16, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

The alleged PumpkinSky copyvioEdit

CCI completedEdit

The Contributor copyright investigations/PumpkinSky is completed, thanks to the reviewers listed below! 729 articles were touched in half a year, edits described in the investigation as "constructive", "improvements", "gnoming", "helpful", "good". Found in 10 articles:

2 paragraphs were left without paraphrasing
several single sentences were paraphrased not at all or too little for the reviewer too feel comfortable
sections were copied from other Wikipedia articles (own and one other) without marking them as such

719 articles were checked off with no problems. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:09, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Expert Moonriddengirl notes that this is too easy math, so please look at it yourself. My POV: the vast majority of contributions are constructive, improvements, gnoming, helpful, good, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:54, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Articles 101 to 280 contain mostly references, that may surprise some who like to speak of insufficient sourcing, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:51, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

CCI historyEdit

The Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/PumpkinSky is was in process. To me it summarizes to 560 729 articles touched in half a year, edits described in the investigation as "constructive", "improvements", "gnoming", "helpful", "good". Please help! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:49, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

As of today:
  • 169 articles don't need checking, because content size was not changed (#561 through 729)
  • 560 articles were checked, a few found with minor close paraphrasing, 2 with sections from a source.
We are looking at one article almost ready for FA, one FL, contributing to GA, 23 DYK (appeared).
I checked the ones off where I was involved (29, please double check), but am too partial to do more. I simply think he is one of the best editors around.
Thank you for checking:
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:00, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
7 February: +2, updated above
8 February: Flatscan raised a concern about quotes within Wikipedia, such as quoting from Montana in a list of people from Montana, using the same text for several wilderness areas, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:12, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
12 February: +67 were checked since 8 February --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:43, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
13 February: +142 were checked --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:38, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
14 February: +1 --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:22, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
15 February: +1 --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:28, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
21 February: +5 --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:39, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
21 February: +1 --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:27, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
22 February: +2 --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:46, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
23 February: +1 --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:30, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
25 February: +2 --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:34, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
26 February: +2 --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:45, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
26 February: +1 --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:50, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
Finished, thanks! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:38, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Single articlesEdit

I looked at some a little closer, including the one pulled from the Main page, the following is copied from Amalthea's talk, started 2 February by me.

Paraphrase, but how?

I am setting out to fix instances of "copy-vio" by PumpkinSky.

No 1 Bozeman Carnegie Library, found and addressed as a problem:

  • "The building is also opened for special events such as Historic Preservation Week." vs.
  • (source) "its new owners have opened the building to the public on numerous occasions for special events, such as Historic Preservation Week."


  • "Their plan worked as the red-light district and Chinese population steadily dwindled away." vs.
  • (source) "the local Chinese population gradually dwindled and Bozeman's red light district soon withered and disappeared."

I admit that I fail to see a problem in this case. Make me understand: Would it be acceptable to say "for example" instead of "such as"? Use a different term for "special events"? Say "conducts special events"? I am completely helpless in the second case. Help!

No 2 Lonesomehurst Cabin, I restored the description and some history. Again, I failed to see close paraphrasing from the public source "United States Department of the Interior / National Park Service". There are architectural terms in the description that I don't know ("rabbitted cornerboards"), so I would not know ho to paraphrase without losing precision?? Please check, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:11, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Popping over here per your request on my talk; Gerda, it's not only the phrasing-- the problem we often see at DYK (and that folks everywhere fail to pick up on when they use tools like the duplication detector) is that the entire structure is copied. When the flow and structure matches the source, you can see that text was copy-pasted in, then words just juggled around (which avoids duplication detector tool picking it up). These frequent claims that involve "only a few words" come from people who aren't looking at the structure of the article. You can read the source, read the article, and see that you're looking at the same thing with a few words juggled. If you've addressed that, I'm not concerned for a closer look-- feel free to remove the tag if you're satisfied. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:10, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

No 3 Cranberry Creek Archeological District, I changed the line "and was designated a State Natural Area in 1986", copied word-for-word from the source. But who thinks that Wikipedia is in danger because of such a line? Not me, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:06, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Again, examine the structure-- not just the words and phrases. Copying the structure is copyvio. See the Plagiarism Dispatch:

Unfortunately, there is no hard and fast rule for how much revision is necessary to avoid plagiarizing. In evaluating copyright concerns, the United States courts adopt a "substantial similarity" test that compares the pattern and sequence of two works, finding such similarity where "the ordinary observer [reading two works], unless he set out to detect the disparities, would be disposed to overlook them, and regard their aesthetic appeal as the same."[17] Even if all of the language is revised, a court may find copyright infringement under the doctrine of "comprehensive non-literal similarity" if "the pattern or sequence of the two works is similar".[18] Likewise, plagiarism may exist if readers comparing the two works would come away with a sense that one is copied from or too heavily based on another.

I read the source from Lonehurst Cabin, then read the article, and there was no doubt I was reading the same work-- then I engaged Duplication detector to pick up specific instances, but if the structure is copied even if words are juggled, it could still be a problem. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:18, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
The article No 3 has many sources, sometimes more than one in one sentence.
The structure in No 2 is now different because I put things in chronology. Repeated: There are architectural terms in the description that I don't know ("rabbitted cornerboards"), so I would not know ho to paraphrase without losing precision?? - There was no tag to be removed, just content restored. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:36, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Sounds good-- it's OK to use direct quotes on terms like that ... By the way, since MoonRiddenGirl is also on this page, perhaps she'll educate us ... in the Cabin case, the reason I removed text instead of tagging was that a CCI wasn't yet open at that point, and it was my understanding that if you get to a copyvio before other hands have touched it, you should just remove it. Maybe MRG will tell us if that's correct? I also queried her talk since I wasn't certain. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:41, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for responding, Sandy! Amalthea 21:05, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

end of copy

Flatout plagiarism can be removed or blocked with a copyvio notice, but to remove a possible close paraphrase on the grounds that it's maybe a little too close isn't warranted, it's better to flag or tag the situation and give the editors viewing the page a chance to correct it. Usually the person who read the material will have a hard time restructuring it because the wording in locked in their head, but a less involved editor can often make the change without altering the proper meaning. I mean seriously, we will delete half the wiki if we feel even vague structural similarities are not OK -- if they are sourced, that's the primary criterion. Keep in mind too that a too-distant wording brings in a different bunch of editors who start screaming WP:OR at you! (I'm dealing with one of those right now...taking a wikibreak to not strangle the person... ;-P) Montanabw(talk) 22:55, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

One other editor commented Talk:Bozeman Carnegie Library. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:49, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Beginning enlightenmentEdit

Bach composed the cantata for today, the title has been translated to "I am content in my good fortune". It made Main page history, I thought of you when I chose the hook, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:20, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for 1989 Helena train wreckEdit

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Christmas Gift Evans HouseEdit

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Return requestEdit

My name is PumpkinSky. I used to be Rlevse. I love this project because as a child I read the hardcopy World Book Encyclopedia for fun. The 21st Century version of that is Wikipedia. I love learning new things.

I've devoted a ton of time and edits to wikipedia (see the appx 100k of my Rlevse edits). I worked hard to do the best that I could and tried to recognize the efforts of others with the “this is your day” program.

I edited from Nov 2005 to Nov 2010 as Rlevse. I can’t recall the numbers exactly as my pages were deleted, but I had about 15 FAs, 17 FLs, several GAs, and about 30 DYKs. I am most proud of helping save Medal of Honor from FAR because of the sacrifices of those veterans, Gilwell Park, Brownsea Island Scout Camp, William Hanna, and Joseph Barbera. In mid 2011 I was helping my friend BarkingMoon learn wiki. That whetted my appetite and love of wiki again. I came back as PumpkinSky in July 2011. As PumpkinSky I am most proud of the FL List of stutterers as I did it in honor of someone I know who suffers from that affliction and my work on WP:Montana articles—especially Yogo sapphire. Towards the end of that time I really enjoyed working on WP:NRHP articles. As PumpkinSky I had 1 FL, 2 GAs, and about 23 DYKs, with two DYKs still on the nom page.

I apologize to the community for presenting myself as a new user. I especially apologize to User:Casliber, my wiki friends, and those who have worked through the CCIs. I also thank those who worked the CCIs to improve the articles. I never plagiarized or paraphrased too closely on purpose. I honestly thought putting a valid ref at the end was enough. I accept responsibility for not knowing better. Allow me to take this opportunity to state that I’ve for years said wiki has always been terrible at educating users in practically everything. As PumpkinSky, I’ve been making a sincere effort to get better at paraphrasing/copy requirements. I feel this is shown by the results of the current CCI in which 13 reviewers have described with words such as “constructive”, “improvements”, “gnoming”, “helpful”, and “good”. I’m willing to help with that but keep in mind I’m not exactly wiki’s subject matter expert on the topic.

I ask User:28bytes to undelete my Rlevse user page and all its subpages. I ask the community to leave them alone as I merely want to get some info from them.

I will agree to these return conditions for one year:

  1. I wish to return as PumpkinSky. I will post a permanent note at the top of my user talk page that I used to be Rlevse.
  2. Five users have agreed to be mentors: User:28bytes, User: Ched Davis, User:Gerda Arendt, User:Montanabw, and User:Wehwalt.
  3. I agree to contact one of the mentors before submitting a FAC or DYK.
  4. I will endeavor to my utmost ability to avoid conflict with others. If such a situation does come about, I will contact my mentors and give justifiable reasons for offense/disagreement.

Going forward, if I am allowed to return, I would like to still focus on Montana and NRHP articles. I will not for at least a year nom a DYK without one of my mentors vetting it first. As for FAC, look at the Yogo article and the many people I sought to help on it. Several other people, not me, had the idea to prep it for FAC. I gladly accepted their help as I know I cannot meet modern FAC standards on my own. As for copy issues, see the talk page. I was reaching out to Nikkimaria to help get the article ready. It still isn’t ready but people tell me it’s close. I will not nom a FAC without several others, including Wehwalt, vetting it first.

I wish I had learned the copy issues better sooner. I was truly trying to get better at the copy issues and I think the current CCI shows that. I know that I still need help and I truly thank those willing to help me. I think I came back as another name to avoid the überdrama that I knew would occur, but it happened anyway.

That poor ability to handle feeling cornered did me in again. I apologize again. In real life and on-wiki I find it difficult to deal with situations where I feel cornered and I tend to withdraw. I apologize for making a decision to completely withdraw instead of sticking around to work things out. I will endeavor my best to be super-cautious about paraphrasing issues.

PumpkinSky talk 21:26, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

  • Support Strong points override errors and mistakes. I think PSky is willing to be a productive editor and will address any good-faith issues that are raised. As for having your friends mentor you, well, I would think it foolish to call upon one's enemies, eh? Some of the nominee mentors seem neutral, I haven't "met" them as far as I know. Sure, I'm a bit biased in PSky's favor, I've had a wonderful time working with PSky on the Yogo Sapphire article, it's one of the finest collaborations I've personally been involved with on wiki. And from Rlevse, I was awarded my own day! (And no, PSky did nothing to tell me that he had been Rlevse! ) I want him back; I'm not going to babysit everything he does,but I will respond to any request for mentoring -- and I am well-known for speaking my mind and having strong opinions! Anything that happened on the Rlevse account is now well over a year old and most misdemeanors (and even a lot of "high crimes" get sentenced to "time served." He was gone around a year, that's as long as any sort of block would have been, and all that without an actual "conviction." So I say, call it what you want, but declare it over. And if people like Moni or Sandy or Raul have specific concerns, or PSky with them, I say maybe they should take them to a specifically identified individual referee who will be fair to all (Hey! Mike Cline! You're good at that sort of thing!) and both sides must disengage from wherever the dispute is and work via the referee. Montanabw(talk) 00:03, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Should be on ANEdit

This vote should be on AN, not on the user's talk page. SilverserenC 23:30, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Why? --Moni3 (talk) 23:36, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Interesting notion, but again why?, when Appealing a block and all associated guidance directs the user to do it on their talk page? --Mike Cline (talk) 23:38, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Because AN is where unblock requests of general interest to the community are fielded. This is not your run-of-the-mill user asking to be unblocked, it's a former Arbitrator and Bureaucrat. The request should get the widest possible community attention. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:40, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
  Done - Moved. Steven Zhang Join the DR army! 23:43, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. Here we are more likely to get people partisan one way or another.---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 23:44, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I am, however, going to unblock Pumpkinsky so that he can participate in the discussion at AN. He should note that, this is solely to participate in that discussion and until the issue is resolved, and deviations could result in re-blocking by any other admin and may jeapardize getting support in this request. I'm going on a limb for ya, so don't make me regret it ;-)---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 23:47, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
What's wrong with doing the normal process of copying over replies to the discussion? SilverserenC 23:52, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
As pointed out above, we are dealing with a form 'crat/arbCOM member---so I'm showing him a little more respect that we might a typical vandal/problem user. Because of his former roles, prompt responses may be required and placement of those responses will be simplified by his ability to edit directly. I also suspect that this case can be more complex than some of the others because of his history. I also think this allows him to sink or swim in a more productive light. Am I going on a limb? Yes. But if he deviates, I have no doubt that somebody will slap him down and it would hurt his chances of being unblocked permanently. Finally, unblocking for purposes of responding to ongoing cases is not unheard of.---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 23:56, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Anyway, this is the link: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#PumpkinSky return request, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:58, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
I agree the discussion is probably better at AN, but also that PumpkinSky/RLevse should be encouraged to contribute to it freely, as if it were on his talk page. I don't see this as being a matter of former status, but agree with the other reasons Balloonman gives. There are many questions related to this request and the way forward is through open dialog, rather than an impersonal approach. What we don't want is a polarizing (!)vote. Geometry guy 00:04, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Using proxies to hide identityEdit

On further review, it is now apparent that you edited Wikipedia:Featured article review/History of merit badges (Boy Scouts of America)/archive1 and History of merit badges (Boy Scouts of America) using IP proxies. Your contributions there were mostly personal attacks, and disrupted the discussion. Do you have any explanation for your behavior?   Will Beback  talk  00:01, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Will, do you have any diffs or proof of this? Seems an ad hominum attack. Montanabw(talk) 00:06, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Good mentoring.   Will Beback  talk  00:49, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
I believe the IPs he is referring to are Special:Contributions/ and Special:Contributions/ Correct me if I'm wrong, Will. Eagles 24/7 (C) 00:15, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Those, plus many more.   Will Beback  talk  00:49, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Whoever those IPs were who were posting on that page, Will Beback doesn't appear to have gotten along with them very well. Will, after that exchange, did you conduct an off-wiki investigation to find out who the IPs belonged-to? Cla68 (talk) 00:24, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to hear from the user.   Will Beback  talk  00:49, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

If dogs could talk...Edit

Welcome back, Pumpkin. Alarbus (talk) 03:11, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Copying within WikipediaEdit

Hi. While working on your CCI, I noticed that you copied text between Wikipedia articles. Copied content requires attribution to its original authors. The relevant guideline is WP:Copying within Wikipedia. I am fixing the existing copies, but it would be very helpful if you would use appropriate edit summaries like lead copied from [[Montana]] going forward.

I know this is not the best timing, but I wanted to make sure that you saw this. Flatscan (talk) 05:12, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Flatscan, this is a trickier policy and one that is not well-known amongst many, many editors; I only became aware of it within the last year or so myself, and was searching for that guideline the other day without success because I wanted to post it on an article where some material was merged and moved. (Hope the merge redirect was good enough) I appreciate your posting the link. Montanabw(talk) 19:19, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Agreed, I didn't know about it either.---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 19:26, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Withdraw the request to returnEdit

There is clearly no consensus by the community to allow me to return. I withdraw my return request. I've asked 28bytes to close everything out. Thanks to all who supported me but the community wish is otherwise. PumpkinSky talk 00:28, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

PS/R, own up to what you have/haven't done in the past---preferably sooner rather than later. If you own up to your transgressions now, people are more likely to forgive... if revelations are made when you try to come back, it'll be fresh on their minds and they'll feel deceived. Address the concerns. Keep your nose clean for the next six months, then come back and ask again. A lot of the people who opposed did so with the caveat that if you had six months without issues they would have supported.---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 02:32, 16 February 2012 (UTC)(And when I say haven't done, address the issues that you've been accused of. If you are guilty, say so. If not, address it. E.g. the BM similarities.)---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 03:12, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Second Balloonman's comments. It was great working with you on Yogo sapphire, so I hope to see you back there. But Balloonman said it best. :D Good luck. Jessemv (talk) 02:46, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Based on what I have endured personally in the last day or so for standing up for Psky, I fear any comment from him on what he did or did not do would do no good in the current climate, The process was still in the middle, it was with him initially by quite a bit, then the tide shifted the other way, but there was a lot of stuff still in process, I think it was far from over, but I understand the toll this stuff takes on a person. Don't be discouraged. Maybe let everyone cool down and let "March madness" get done (I don't know why, but I think Feb and March are the most difficult months on wiki for stuff like this to be going on). Come back after the Equinox -- or the Solstice -- and maybe things will be calm and folks will feel better when the sun shines a bit more. (I noticed Cas, the Aussie, was among the most rational of us all -- it's summer down there!) ** back patting ** Montanabw(talk) 03:39, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Unwelcome attitudeEdit

As can be seen by this series of comments [2] PumpkinSky not only ignores long standing poilcies but belittles and insults other users who advise him accordingly. Such an attitude is unwelcome, and could indicate just the type of user that is neither wanted nor required.

DYK for Cranberry Creek Archeological DistrictEdit

The DYK project (nominate) 08:02, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Sanddunes SunriseEdit

ps Every day, we lose what the wrongly blocked would have given that day. And a little bit of our souls.

nb: User talk:Wehwalt#Sanddunes Sunrise

  1. Alarbus (talk) 04:28, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  2. Alpha_Quadrant (talk) 04:32, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  3. Jessemv (talk) 04:39, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  4. Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:03, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  5. Wehwalt (talk) 09:54, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  6. Ched :  ?  10:08, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  7. Montanabw(talk) 21:36, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  8. (But I think you need to start laying the ground work now.)---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 21:44, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  9. Really enjoyed working with you, hope to continue sometime in the near future. Dreadstar 22:23, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  10. Dianna (talk) 06:27, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
  11. (olive (talk) 23:22, 18 February 2012 (UTC))
That's exceptionally nice. Thank you very much everyone. PumpkinSky talk 10:54, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
You're most welcome. Alarbus (talk) 11:05, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
I'm glad you like it. We are keeping the light burning for your return.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:26, 17 February 2012 (UTC)


Welcome back. Any drama on WP gets escalated quickly. It's not fun when the sides are so contrasting ("black and white" one person observed) and so many range on each side. May your future be productive and free of the obnoxious past. David Spector (talk) 19:36, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

He's not back... he realized that he wasn't going to get the support needed to get unblocked/banned, so he left. Personally, I think he needs to go through the dispute resolution process now, so that in 6 months-a year, he could return with less drama. By not doing so now, he's only delaying the inevitable.---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 14:52, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
The voting was running close to even, IMHO, varying from one side to the other, as these things do. The bigger problem, in my view, was that the drama was escalating out of control. I viewed some of the commentary as beginning to attack even his supporters, though others dispute my view on this. (I personally felt attacked by some of the comments directed my way, anyway). I think a little cooling off time for all is wise, and waiting for the cabin fever period to end is also wise -- I am quite convinced that wikidrama escalates quite severely between January and March of each year; at least for users in the Northern Hemisphere. Montanabw(talk) 16:57, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
The voting was running even, but there were more and more allegations coming out that need to be addressed. And there are some members of this community who will not accept him back without first extracting their pound of flesh. Let them get it out of their system, let the "surprise revelations" be reveales so as not to undermind those who are supporting him. And serve whatever punishment the community choses to empart.---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 18:18, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Lonesomehurst CabinEdit

The DYK project (nominate) 23:32, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

  The 25 DYK Creation and Expansion Medal
"It gives me great pleasure to garland you with this award." You have taken us to the beauty of remote American wildernesses and to places of historic significance. You made us meet stutterers, a ceramic artist and a Chinese teenage slave pioneer. Your contributions, factual but with compassion, are precious. You are an awesome  Wikipedian, did you know? Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:01, 22 February 2012 (UTC)


I have nominated Frederick_Russell_Burnham for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikkimaria (talkcontribs)

Really tasteless of you to leave an invitation to join the discussion message on the talk page of a blocked account. And there's the wad of parser-crap. Alarbus (talk) 21:04, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
It would be poorer taste not to leave a message, per WP:FAR instructions, on the premise that often a notification even to a missing, retired, or whatever editor will bring someone out of the woodwork to work on the article. The way it's always been done; the goal is to locate people who will work on the article, and notifications serve that purpose wrt talk page watchers. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:16, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Rather than a templated message, a respectfully worded message that took care to omit the join the discussion dig… Maybe? This was a cheap, unsigned shot. Alarbus (talk) 21:30, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Apologies for the missing signature, that was accidental. If the user would like to make any comments here, I'd be happy to copy them over, and I'd even be willing to help facilitate a partial rewrite in userspace if he's interested. In the meantime, the message seems to have brought some improvement to the article, so I would call that a benefit. Alarbus, you're welcome to engage at the review if you like. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:12, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
While I see your point (now, belated) about the template, we have AGF for a reason ... I don't believe a "cheap, unsigned shot" was intended. Please adjust your AGF-o-meter. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:17, 24 February 2012 (UTC)


He was despised --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:41, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Interesting connection. PumpkinSky talk 22:12, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Ostereierbaum (Easter Egg Tree)Edit

  • Happy Easter, German style. Click on the eggs for more info. Egg 4 has lots of photos. PumpkinSky talk 22:12, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
      Like Jesse V. (talk) 23:02, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
    By the way, I just passed nominations and got Folding@home up to Good Article status. I completely understand your "OMG we did it!" euphoria from Yogo sapphire. :D Happy Easter, Jesse V. (talk) 23:08, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
    Happy Easter to you as well PS - thanks for the great link, very cool. — Ched :  ?  23:43, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
    Yes, Happy Easter, PS. Jack Merridew 23:56, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
    Precious! Happy Easter, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:00, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
    Happy Easter Pumpkin Sky and to all.(olive (talk) 02:45, 8 April 2012 (UTC))
    Happy Easter everyone! Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:28, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
    A happy holiday to all. ps--Wehwalt (talk) 13:29, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
    Pretty! Happy Easter. MBisanz talk 13:54, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
    Easter joy all around. The Interior (Talk) 14:28, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
    Happy Easter! :) - NeutralhomerTalk • 17:44, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
    (Belated) happy Easter! :) hf24 20:21, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

discussion about youEdit

Just as a courtesy, I wanted to let you know that I have walked into a landmine... there seems to be a big discussion about you, what you should have done in February, and what you need to do before returning on my talk page.---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 16:08, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Cranberry Creek Archeological DistrictEdit

The DYK project (nominate) 08:02, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Sanddunes SunriseEdit

ps Every day, we lose what the wrongly blocked would have given that day. And a little bit of our souls.

nb: User talk:Wehwalt#Sanddunes Sunrise

  1. Alarbus (talk) 04:28, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  2. Alpha_Quadrant (talk) 04:32, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  3. Jessemv (talk) 04:39, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  4. Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:03, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  5. Wehwalt (talk) 09:54, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  6. Ched :  ?  10:08, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  7. Montanabw(talk) 21:36, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  8. (But I think you need to start laying the ground work now.)---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 21:44, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  9. Really enjoyed working with you, hope to continue sometime in the near future. Dreadstar 22:23, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
  10. Dianna (talk) 06:27, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
  11. (olive (talk) 23:22, 18 February 2012 (UTC))
  12. Intothatdarkness (talk) 20:28, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
  13. I too really enjoyed working with you. Ctatkinson (talk) 00:26, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
  14. There will be a way back, if you want "back". It's just a question of finding that way, and keeping your eyes on the map! Pesky (talk) 15:36, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
  15. In the words of Tom Bodette (the Motel6 guy)...."We'll leave the light on for 'ya".```Buster Seven Talk 11:29, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
  16. More proof the people running the site don't think content is the most important thing. You were a valuable editor, whatever account you held and I think its time you were permitted to wipe the slate clean and prove your worth.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:07, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
  17. No man...; apparently this user's focus was on content (sic), Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 17:01, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
    that made me stop and think .. very well done. — Ched :  ?  17:23, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

That's exceptionally nice. Thank you very much everyone. PumpkinSky talk 10:54, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
You're most welcome. Alarbus (talk) 11:05, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
I'm glad you like it. We are keeping the light burning for your return.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:26, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
We are glad that we don't have to hold the torch any more but have our hands free for writing. Thank you, 28bytes. Happy Eastertide! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:44, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Now we need Alarbus back. Please! MathewTownsend (talk) 23:45, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Working on it, please support under another pumpkin sky, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:07, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Lonesomehurst CabinEdit

The DYK project (nominate) 23:32, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

25 DYKEdit

  The 25 DYK Creation and Expansion Medal
"It gives me great pleasure to garland you with this award." You have taken us to the beauty of remote American wildernesses and to places of historic significance. You made us meet stutterers, a ceramic artist and a Chinese teenage slave pioneer. Your contributions, factual but with compassion, are precious. You are an awesome  Wikipedian, did you know? Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:01, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Notice of discussion at Administrators NoticeboardEdit

This is a note to let you know that there is a discussion underway at WP:AN about you. The thread is at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive232#Results of PumpkinSky copyvio investigation. --Dianna (talk) 19:42, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

if there is anything you wish me to copy over there, please let me know.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:03, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Great Dismal Swamp maroonsEdit

Orlady (talk) 04:12, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

  Alarbus (talk) 11:08, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Ditto.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:12, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Now  , happy --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:53, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

SG for Dearborn River High BridgeEdit


He was despised --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:41, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Interesting connection. PumpkinSky talk 22:12, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Ostereierbaum (Easter Egg Tree)Edit

  • Happy Easter, German style. Click on the eggs for more info. Egg 4 has lots of photos. PumpkinSky talk 22:12, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
      Like Jesse V. (talk) 23:02, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
    By the way, I just passed nominations and got Folding@home up to Good Article status. I completely understand your "OMG we did it!" euphoria from Yogo sapphire. :D Happy Easter, Jesse V. (talk) 23:08, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
    Happy Easter to you as well PS - thanks for the great link, very cool. — Ched :  ?  23:43, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
    Yes, Happy Easter, PS. Jack Merridew 23:56, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
    Precious! Happy Easter, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:00, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
    Happy Easter Pumpkin Sky and to all.(olive (talk) 02:45, 8 April 2012 (UTC))
    Happy Easter everyone! Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:28, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
    A happy holiday to all. ps--Wehwalt (talk) 13:29, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
    Pretty! Happy Easter. MBisanz talk 13:54, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
    Easter joy all around. The Interior (Talk) 14:28, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
    Happy Easter! :) - NeutralhomerTalk • 17:44, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
    (Belated) happy Easter! :) hf24 20:21, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Your editing statusEdit

The more I look at this block, and the discussions about it at User talk:Balloonman#BN and elsewhere, the more clear it is to me that this block, as it stands now, is almost entirely punitive in nature and serves no legitimate purpose in preventing harm to the encyclopedia. As such, I believe leaving the block in place violates both the letter and spirit of our blocking policy, and so I am undoing it. For the record, I tried to seek an agreement to unblock with the blocking admin, but my query was archived without a response.

As you have committed in your previous unblock request to (1) follow all of our site policies and guidelines going forward, (2) help out with the Vanished 6551232 copyright investigation, and (3) avoid any conflicts with other editors, I intend to hold you to that, and will re-block if those commitments are not met. In addition, I expect you to edit only from this account, and to excercise extreme caution in avoiding any close paraphrasing or plagiarism when adding sourced content, and if doubt, ask me or another editor well-versed in our copyright policies for guidance.

Happy editing, and please don't let me down. 28bytes (talk) 23:10, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

28bytes and other editors: I agree to what you've said: to follow all policies, to avoid conflicts, and to help with CCI. One way, perhaps the best way, for me to help with CCI is that I have hard copies of several books, manuals, collecting guides, and journals from my Rlevse days and a couple PDFs from PSKY days that I could scan with my scanner and send to interested users. I can also comment on the CCI talk page if needed and offer other help that is deemed appropriate. I want to focus on productive future.PumpkinSky talk 23:12, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Welcome back. While I don't consider myself any great editor - I'll see what I can dig up on that CCI. Great to have you back PS. — Ched :  ?  23:29, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. PumpkinSky talk 23:34, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Hey PS, a productive future would be great. There's an ongoing FAR for Frederick Russell Burnham that you may wish to comment on. Also, can you double-check the content you added to Yogo sapphire for potential issues? Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 23:31, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
I will check Yogo, do my best, but let's admit it, it's not my strong point ;-). I did not know about Burnham, on that note that I did not write most of that, as I recall I mainly prepped it.. PumpkinSky talk 23:34, 14 April 2012 (UTC)...I think it best I stay away from anything FA-related for some time but I will comment that if a few people put some effort into it, it could be saved. Ctatkinson would be a good choice IMHO. PumpkinSky talk 23:49, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Yogo is already taken care of. VSmith has the same book you did and he went over every source with a fine-tooth comb. We fixed a couple close paraphrases and there may be a couple more tagged, but it is well under control. Maybe drop him a line and thank him for his work. Montanabw(talk) 16:55, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Good unblock. I would appreciate it if everyone would back off PumpkinSky and let him find his feet again. Welcome back, peace guy..--Wehwalt (talk) 23:32, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. PumpkinSky talk 23:34, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
And you are a rollbacker and reviewer. I know it's not much, but it's what's left at the shop.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:41, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Welcome back. You just can't keep a good pumpkin down.... or something! An intelligent, thoughtful unblock.(olive (talk) 01:00, 15 April 2012 (UTC))
  • Totally righteous move. Welcome back! I have total admiration for the unblocking admin!!!Dreadstar 01:21, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
  • PumpkinSky, welcome back. I helped out a bit combing through various contributions; that was a drag but it's in the past now--it is because you promised. That you were also the other one came as a complete surprise to me; those kinds of things always are. I think Ecoletage was the first editor ever to slap a barnstar on my page, and the Pastor Theo sock shocked me. So this one did as well. Sorry if I'm venting; back in the days Rlevse to me meant quality writing and judgment. I'd like to think that again for PS. Anyway, I am not going to get on your case or follow that target which you probably have painted on your back, and I have vented enough now. All the best. Drmies (talk) 01:41, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. Best wishes. PumpkinSky talk 01:42, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

We haven't met, but we have a friend in common (he'll tell you). I wanted to let you know that it's good to see you around. Cheers, --Lecen (talk) 01:57, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you.PumpkinSky talk 01:59, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm also glad to see you back. I look forward to seeing the productive work you get up to. I was very impressed with your efforts on Yogo sapphire. I'd like to see that reach FA status sometime if you're up for the challenge. Jesse V. (talk) 02:41, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. PumpkinSky talk 02:46, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I hope you're back... but the hounds have not come out yet... I do agree with 28, that the primary reason to keep you blocked would be punative, not preventative... but there are those who may come back seeking your blood. We shall see.---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 03:40, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Let's hope they don't. Thank you. PumpkinSky talk 11:01, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Sure. Thank you.PumpkinSky talk 11:01, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Pumpkin, the reason why you aren't sure of what Gerda is saying is because apparently it is some obscure slight against me. As Gerda found my comment to be offensive enough that it warranted being edited off of your talk page and my being warned. BTW Gerda, I didn't have the inclination to try to figure out your obscure reference, so like PS, I'll say "Sure."---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 23:31, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Peace everyone, peace. PumpkinSky talk 23:36, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi PS. This thread was, loosely, brought to my attention. I have to say that under your previous username I did find you to be somewhat pompous, perhaps even arrogant at times. That's a criticism that I hope you take as fair; indeed it has (rightly) been put to me as well and I have taken it on the chin and hope to learn from it. I'm pleased to see you back and I wish you well. In time I'm sure that the past will be water under the bridge. Best. Pedro :  Chat  20:55, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Best wishes. PumpkinSky talk 20:58, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

A pie for you!Edit

  To welcome you back 5 albert square (talk) 01:03, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. PumpkinSky talk 01:05, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

John Heaphy FellowesEdit

I think I'm going to start on this one. Do you still have the books listed in the references? Perhaps there's enough info available to build it to GA? — Ched :  ?  01:08, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Not that one. Sorry. Most of those refs are web based.PumpkinSky talk 01:13, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Sorry cause I know it will take some time to get settled in, respond to well wishes, and organize. But - I started going over the CCI stuff, and I noticed some articles that interest me. Down the road, if you'd like to work on any of them. Or you want to see what I've cleared from the list, you can bookmark User:Ched Davis/cci and let me know if there's any of your past work you'd like to revisit and work together on. I think we've worked well together in the past on several articles. If you'd rather move on to pursue new content that's fine too. Feel free to ping me anytime if you want to borrow my eyes or thoughts. — Ched :  ?  04:09, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Ahh, I meant I don't have that book. I can work on whatever you want with you.PumpkinSky talk 11:17, 15 April 2012 (UTC)


Hello, PumpkinSky. You have new messages at Neutralhomer's talk page.
Message added 21:27, 15 April 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

NeutralhomerTalk • 21:27, 15 April 2012 (UTC) 21:27, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

In hopes of many more to come ..Edit

  The Peace Barnstar
For maintaining a calm center in the face of many storms, I award you this. — Ched :  ?  00:28, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
...and the fact that I just love irony and karma. :-)
Thank you. That is so true. In the words of John Lennon in the 1970 song Instant Karma!, "...instant karma's gonna get you...and we all shine on..."PumpkinSky talk 00:41, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
All we are saying ... <Ched waves arms back and forth overhead> .. OH YEA .. I am a HUGE Lennon fan. "Imagine" may well be my favorite song of all time. — Ched :  ?  00:51, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Totally agree with Crisco 1493. My wish for User:Alarbus to return is a general wish that editors that contributed unstintingly and made the project a wonderful place be, that they allowed to return, despite mistakes. I feel like the bureaucratic types are taking over, snapping acronyms at every editor; they may be "correct", but they make wikipedia a less appealing place to work. MathewTownsend (talk) 01:57, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
I know what you mean. PumpkinSky talk 01:59, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Hello PS. I'm glad that you're back. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:05, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you.PumpkinSky talk 02:08, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

You're back?! Awesome! (I am always so out of touch.) Yngvadottir (talk) 02:53, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Welcome back from me as well, if you need any help with something just let me know. Thanks Secret account 22:51, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks!PumpkinSky talk 22:52, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!Edit

  The Resilient Barnstar
Lovely to see you back. Hope you soon get into article writing again and won't let what happened phase you! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:44, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Why thanks! PumpkinSky talk 09:51, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Copying within WikipediaEdit

Hi. I contacted you about WP:Copying within Wikipedia (archived to User talk:PumpkinSky/Archive 2#Copying within Wikipedia), but I wasn't sure if you saw my note. Flatscan (talk) 04:11, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for posting. I didn't know about that policy before. PumpkinSky talk 09:54, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Most of us didn't. It's weird, vague and obscure. But I did it on Russell and Sigurd Varian if you want to view the templates used. Montanabw(talk) 17:22, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Scout troop articleEdit

I read it over and enjoyed it. Well done. I didn't see any issues, and I looked too!--Wehwalt (talk) 17:43, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Why thank you for the review. It must be in good shape if you didn't find issues. I'm going to give it some final looks.PumpkinSky talk 22:19, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
I did not really try to focus on the prose, so you might want to check that. No problem.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:52, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
I tweaked a word here and there. — Ched :  ?  23:29, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

2 questionsEdit

  1. on the mounted troops article - see talk page
  2. do you have JSTOR access?

thanks. — Ched :  ?  23:28, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

1-will do now, 2-no, someone sent me the JSTOR PDFs. PumpkinSky talk 23:43, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
I have JStor if anyone needs something verified. MBisanz talk 00:57, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you.PumpkinSky talk 01:25, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Easter egg treeEdit

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:34, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Excellent! It's also featured on Portal:Germany. If you have more DYK related to Germany, please feel free to add it there yourself. - Different topic: do you know enough about Too Young the Hero to see if a recent change makes sense? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:09, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Don't see the sense of the one made today.PumpkinSky talk 18:58, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Put your eggs in this nest ;) and Heck in a user page, please. I found the following three comments on my talk, you deserve them, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:40, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Parking lot mother Canada GooseEdit

I thought this was really interesting, a nesting goose in a parking lot, so I took the photo. The two parking spots beside her have been marked off. Parts of two eggs are visible near her rump.PumpkinSky talk 23:34, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
That's pretty awesome! :D Jesse V. (talk) 06:45, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
Go mama goose! Montanabw(talk) 17:48, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
Goslings hatched last night or this am as this afternoon mom and babies were gone. Not sure if they were on walk and coming back or if they moved permanently.PumpkinSky talk 20:14, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
Looking for water maybe.... and wonder where the poppa is. Canada Geese mate for life, and don't take new mates even if one or the other is killed. Thanks for the great photo.(olive (talk) 20:24, 20 April 2012 (UTC))
Glad you like it. Haven't seen the dad at all. I should start a blog "the parking lot geese".PumpkinSky talk 20:27, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
Today I saw the dad and one gosling walking in the parking lot with mom. Two eggs hatched so something happened to one gosling, sadly. Mom builds a nest in this spot every year.PumpkinSky talk 11:34, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. Its a nice story.(olive (talk) 05:09, 25 April 2012 (UTC))


Thanks for the talk page vigilance. The one day this month I try to log off and get some non-wiki stuff done, and a vandal stops by. Figures! 28bytes (talk) 21:38, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

No problem! And naturally it happened on your "day off". PumpkinSky talk 21:50, 20 April 2012 (UTC)


Glad you're back. ;) Acalamari 10:32, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

HI! And thank you. Great to hear from you.PumpkinSky talk 10:45, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

I gave a curosry welcome last week, but it's now been over a week and nothing has happened... and is very unlikely to happen now... the hounds were not unleashed, plagues did not strike, and more amazingly, the Wiki did not break! I'm glad that you are back and I'm estatic that your return was not mired by similar mayhem that occurred in February... Anyways, glad to have you back. Even with the mistakes of the past, you are (and were) a highly valued contributor.---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 13:30, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Why thank you B-man. Very kind of you.PumpkinSky talk 21:38, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

I always knew you'd come back ;) -- œ 00:44, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

 ;-) PumpkinSky talk 00:50, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Mounted Boy Scout Troop 290Edit

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:06, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Das MillionenspielEdit

Started, roughly. Needs a lot of checking.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:11, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Earl Old PersonEdit

Hey Pumpkin Sky,

I would like to know why you erased the recent editing of Earl Old Person? The information on him was well sourced, researched and that person spent a great deal of time finding all those facts. What gives you the right to delete that person's hard work?

FirmaVeritas — Preceding unsigned comment added by FirmaVeritas (talkcontribs) 16:59, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

It was a different editor who reverted the recent editing of the article, not PumpkinSky. The reason for the revert appears to be that the editor added a lot of unencyclopedic material, some of which was unsourced. While some of the material may be useful, the subject of the article is a living person, and the wikipedia policies of WP:BLP need to be followed (verifiable sources for all potentially controversial claims, neutral tone, etc.) Any editor has the right to edit wikipedia, and the guidelines at WP:MOS outline why some edits are reverted by others. I hope this helps you understand. Montanabw(talk) 17:57, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Definitely not me. My only edit to that was in August 2011.PumpkinSky talk 21:05, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
FV---Pumpkin Sky didn't make the reversion in question. Nawlinwiki did. You probably saw the summary:
NawlinWiki (talk | contribs | block)‎ m . . (2,840 bytes) (-5,852)‎ . . (Reverted edits by SPM17 (talk) to last version by PumpkinSky) (rollback | undo)
And saw the last part "To last version by PumpkinSky" and thought that he made the change. But it was really Nawlin, who made the change reverting it back to the last edit made by PS.---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 21:32, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

I apologize, I thought it was you, but those later have cleared the air. No hard feelings I hope. The work that was deleted was for a college project that my friend worked very hard on to research and post on wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FirmaVeritas (talkcontribs) 02:22, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

No worries. And thanks to the other users for helping out.PumpkinSky talk 02:29, 26 April 2012 (UTC)


re: this. Hey - what if I say I'll edit for only $19.95 per edit? SAVE SAVE SAVE - BUY NOW!, if only I had a good PR/pitchman. lol. And I figure that even at a lowly $1/edit - that's a mighty nice 100 and some thousand dollar check you ought to have coming. :-) — Ched :  ?  06:12, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

It is an interesting issue. If it works out that's pretty awesome for him, he just has to be careful about neutrality because there seems to be a bit of a firestorm erupting around him right now. Meanwhile all that the rest of us get is bragging rights. You can be all like "hey guys check out this cool Wikipedia article! It's on Yogo sapphire. I wrote most all of this whole thing!" That's got to count for something. :D Jesse V. (talk) 07:07, 29 April 2012 (UTC)


I'm tweaking the lead to parallel the text. In doing so, saw a couple small fixes: Montanabw(talk) 19:01, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

  1. When were Yogo Sapphires first found? 1878 or 1894? (lead said 1865 but wasn't supported anywhere in text) Discovery section is inconsistent: "During the Montana Gold Rush of 1878, about a thousand miners came to Yogo Creek, which was one of the gold-bearing streams in Montana not yet actively mined. The mining camp at Yogo City flourished for about three years, but only bits of gold and "blue pebbles" were found....Nonetheless, sapphire mining at Yogo Gulch began when someone finally investigated the nature of the "blue pebbles" that had been noticed since 1894 along with gold in the streambed alluvium."
  2. I'm still fuzzy on the ownership sequence of the two mines. Did the American mine claims ultimately get bought out by the English mine interests? Is this correct?
  3. English Mine: Jim Ettien-->Jake Hoover-->Hoover's two partners-->New Mine Sapphire Syndicate(1899)-->Charles Gadsden/English Mine (was this still New Mine Sapphire Syndicate/English Syndicate?) -->Yogo Sapphire Mining Corporation/New Mine Sapphire Syndicate (American Syndicate) -->Siskon, Inc. (& Arnold Baron lease)-->Herman Yaras Sapphire Village -->Chikara Kunisaki/Sapphire International Corporation/Roncor -->Victor di Suvero/Sapphire-Yogo Mines -->American Yogo Sapphire Limited/Intergem -->Roncor (again) (leases to AMAX Exploration/Yogo Sapphire Project-->Pacific Cascade Sapphires) --> Mine defunct and unmined since 2001 when Pacific Cascade lease ended ???
  4. AMERICAN MINE: Burke & Sweeney's "Fourth of July" claim-->American Gem Syndicate-->American Sapphire Company-->Yogo American Sapphire Company--> New Mine Sapphire Syndicate (1914: this is where I get confused, is this the same bunch that owned the English Mine? Did they own BOTH? Was ownership unified from 1914 on?)
  5. VORTEX MINE: Perry and Ridgeway/Vortex mine/Yogo Creek Mining -->Michael Duane Roberts (d. 2012)
  6. Who owns Sapphire Village? ""As of 2011, there was also mining activity at Sapphire Village, though the Roncor mines remained inactive." I thought Roncor owned it??
it does get confusing with the multiple mines, owners, etc; I have trouble following it myself...
  1. the first montana/US sapphires (not Yogo) were found in 1865 - from U. of Texas. Yogos were first found 1878 but their value wasn't noticed at the time so it's a kind of "non-discovery"; that wasn't until Hoover in 1894; hence all the confusion
  2. Two key parts here that could/should be worked in: On pages 95-96, Voynick says "Charles and Maude Gadsden journeyed to London in the spring of 1914 to persuade the Syndicate to acquire the American Mine. (Syndicate argues...Gadsden convinces them on the bargain price and eliminating competition...)...Two months later, he carried with him the funds to purchase the American Mine. In May 1914, the New Mine Sapphire Syndicate acquired all the assets of the Yogo American Sapphire Company, and thus ownership and control of the entire known length of the Yogo dike." (see the sentence just before the 1940s-1970s section). On page 207, Voynick says "...all that remains of the American Mine, later the Kunisaki Tunnel, is the locked portal. This was also the site of the Intergem washing plant, still standing are the cluster of maintenance sheds alongside the weathering heaps and tailings ponds." Keep in mind this "American" site has never been as profitable as the others (English and Vortex).
  3. As far as I know/can figure out (WE NEED A FLOW CHART!). Note Vortex was at a third site, not at either the American nor English site.
  4. See answer 2. that should clear this up.
  5. Yep.
  6. Sapphire Village is a housing development where people get to rockhound with hand tools. Kunisaki, an original lot owner of Sapphire Village, bought them out when Sapphire Village INC failed after just 4 years. His company was named Sapphire International Corporation, which got renamed to Roncor. The Vortex and English Mines are different from Sapphire Village. The Village isn't a mine per se. Does this help?
I think it best you tweak this as needed, rather than I.PumpkinSky talk 22:30, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
Okie Dokey. I'll tweak, but can you verify sourcing and fix any errors? Montanabw(talk) 15:32, 1 May 2012 (UTC) Follow up See my changes and make sure I got it right. I am still fuzzy about Sapphire Village, which sometimes shows up on Google maps and sometimes doesn't. I get that the idea was a subdivision or something, not a mine. Either way, not sure if anyone lives there now? (If I had the time -- which I don't at the moment -- I'm tempted to drive over there, but at a minimum it would be an overnight or two to get there, find the dirt road, locate stuff, etc...). Last but not least, i do need to find that Blackfeet dictionary that's in a library in town, somewhere, and figure out if Yogo is a Blackfeet word, which I highly doubt. Montanabw(talk) 17:19, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
I think we're close to wrapping up. If you can look at that dictionary and settle that issue, that'd be great. The sapphire village ref says "material is produced by individuals from privately owned lots in Sapphire Village". It doesn't say if people still live there. PumpkinSky talk 20:08, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Horst von der Goltz page translationEdit

Many thanks for the yeoman work on the German => English translation, which makes the English version of this article so much more useful. Your efforts are emblematic of Wiki is all about. I'm sorry I only have an 'attaboy' (or 'attagirl' as is appropriate). User:Natty10000 [Stop me before I edit again!] 11:58, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, no problem and glad you enjoy it. PumpkinSky talk 15:13, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Eagle's StoreEdit

There's a bot that goes around and looks at new articles to figure out which ones are likely to come under the WP:NRHP purview. It checks for specific phrases; features of this article such as multiple occurrences of "National Register of Historic Places" and {{Infobox NRHP}} mean that the bot will certainly pick it up. Pages that the bot catches are listed on a page for the NRHP project, so you don't need to do anything. Thanks for checking! Nyttend (talk) 00:48, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Holy crap it's you! (was Sorry)Edit

Between the start of the school year and the Golden Week Venture camp, you got lost in the shuffle. Didn't mean to. Yeah, still here in Japan.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 09:10, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Holy crap it's you! I just got that! Welcome back brother! You've been missed! Did you get my e-mails? Used the Thai emblem in a wide game last night!

The archiving bit made me go check-Japan being the land of tech, the leaders here make fun of me for my lack of skill. I can manage graphics, but noting with code or math.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 10:58, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

I'll archive for you. I haven't gotten an email from you in a long time. I posted on Gadget's page but he ignored me. PumpkinSky talk 11:01, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Last one I found in my mail to you was July last. I get the same from him, no reply. Happy you reminded me today to write you back, should have figured coastal Virginia out.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 11:11, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
ps-thanks for the archive!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 11:30, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Horst von der GoltzEdit

PanydThe muffin is not subtle 00:03, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Danke, and I translated that one! PumpkinSky talk 00:07, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Stefanie RabatschEdit

I agree, there are obvious defects in the way the refs have been written up (and one that requires a search of the Spiegel archives to see what it actually is - and I see mention in the Daily Mail of the Kershaw bio, that should have been followed up on), but not only that, there's at least one unreferenced paragraph and a chunk plagiarised from the Daily Mail article. And I don't see where the hook fact is actually stated, let alone referenced. Going to pull the stop handle at the nomination, but I have to go to work soon so I can't start helping the author by fixing it up. Yngvadottir (talk) 04:12, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

I'll post on it if you haven't already. Also, You can respond on your talk page as I have a watch there.PumpkinSky talk 10:12, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
OK, I have done an initial fix from work. There are still things in the article whose source I am unsure of, partly because there have been at least 2 documentaries - Der Spiegel is referring to an earlier one and the one the article already referred to has the same title as Klopp's book - and the various redactions of Kubizek's book include an English translation, which is what the Daily Mail is presumably quoting (I'm seeing hacked-up punctuation marks but presuming quote marks as well as commas). Also it seems it should be moved to Stefamie, which is what even the Daily Mail calls her; the Stephanie spelling hampered my search at first. I'm at work using little bits of break time so I haven't yet tried to access the books on Google Books in order to see if I can get specific pages, and I haven't touched the hook sentence. But Der Spiegel says she denied even knowing he loved her, so the facts may need to be adjusted a bit. Will report at the nom page now if all stays quiet here. --Yngvadottir (talk) 12:48, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
. . . and I think I'm done (although I have not searched for additional sources except checking the various bios of Hitler by Kershaw). Reporting at the nomination page and suggesting an alternate hook. Yngvadottir (talk) 16:44, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Bozeman National Fish HatcheryEdit

  Hello! Your submission of Bozeman National Fish Hatchery at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! LauraHale (talk) 06:25, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Dieter Thomas HeckEdit

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:02, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Admin review commentEdit

Hi PumpkinSky, thank you for your post to my admin review page. I was delighted to see your name appear in my watchlist there, and honored to read your kind comments. :) Best. Acalamari 09:50, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. Thanks for the feedback.PumpkinSky talk 17:09, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Bot editEdit

Odd - not sure what happened there. Is this a widespread or repeatable problem? I'll take a look when I have time.

Martin (Smith609 – Talk) 08:00, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

I think it was caused by ref formatting (spaces and no quotes) such as <ref name = jones> instead of the way it should be <ref name="jones">. This is a repeat problem. PumpkinSky talk 10:15, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
(inserted nowiki) Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:04, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Danke sehr Gerda!PumpkinSky talk 10:15, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:ScoutingCover.jpgEdit


Thanks for uploading File:ScoutingCover.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 17:38, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

OK, go ahead. PumpkinSky talk 17:42, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Bozeman National Fish HatcheryEdit

Carabinieri (talk) 00:04, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Lehrkind MansionEdit

Yes, it's part of that HD. When you're looking at websites maintained by or somehow in connexion with the owners of contributing properties (or looking at plaques on the properties), you'll often see "listed on the National Register" when they're only contributing properties. Occasionally you do get individually-listed properties within HDs, such as the Taylor-Zent House in Huntington's North Jefferson Street HD, which I visited the other day; however, these are substantially rarer. When you see "listed on the National Register" and don't find the property individually listed, you should always look for a surrounding HD, as you did here, before you start to find whether the property got left off. Nyttend (talk) 12:26, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Ah! Memory serves! That WAS the original home of the Bistro, which is now in the same block as the Baxter Hotel (File:Bozeman - Hotel Baxter.JPG - badly outdated photo), which, speaking of a building that has to be a NR, if it doesn't have an article, it needs one, badly! At the moment, it houses a restaurant owned by Ted Turner (I think it was the first Ted's Montana Grill and is the flagship of the chain) and serves up bison as well as some very good steaks. Building contains not one but two historic bars, the Bacchus Pub being of particular note for its original wall carvings (some idiot tore out the original bar, but the carvings are still there, fascinating. Montanabw(talk) 15:36, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
Wasn't the first Ted's...Ted's went into a location that used to be a bar (Karaoke mainly). It may be the first one in the state, but that's about it. The Bacchus is a reincarnation of the original, although I think it's shifted down a front or two from where it was originally. At one time there was a Chinese restaurant in that block as well.Intothatdarkness (talk) 21:08, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Maybe I'll do the Baxter once I finish the two I'm doing now. Also want to get Yogo wrapped up. Wish I had a free photo of Lehrkind Mansion.PumpkinSky talk 20:49, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
Heh, was just there last weekend. So was the first Ted's at least in Bozeman?? The Bacchus Pub (a favorite haunt of my teen years, because they wouldn't serve us booze, but they WOULD let us sit around drinking tea until late-thirty) is still in the Baxter, but the cool round carved table got sold off some time in the dark years and some moron tore out the original bar in the center of the pub. I think the space may have temporarily housed a Chinese Restaurant, (briefly, but I can't recall for sure), but it's the Bacchus again now even though they have a new yuppie monstrosity of a bar along the lobby wall, but at least they kept the carved monk heads and the carved head of Bacchus himself! You might be thinking of the Robin Lounge, which is now where the bar of Ted's is located, and I think that Bar is the original, looks like it is... Montanabw(talk) 22:27, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
The first Ted's was someplace back East, I think. Typical for the man, really. And yeah, it was the Robin. The Chinese restaurant was there in the 1970s-ish (remember it growing up here). The Bacchus space stood empty for some time before they finally put it back in. I expect the old Bozeman Hotel would lend itself to an article, too, if it doesn't have one already. Intothatdarkness (talk) 13:47, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
So you grew up there too? Interesting. Agreed, the Bozeman Hotel would be a good article. If my memory serves, The Baxter was a dump for winos and other "room with a hot plate" sorts when I moved to Bozeman in 1970, and I think only the Robin was open. Then they started to rehab the place somewhere in the mid-70s. By the late 70s, the Bacchus Pub was in fine form as a casual eatery that also served alcohol. At that time, the restaurant in the back of the Baxter was the Rocky Mountain Pasta Company. (I remember the fish tanks...) I think that space had several different restaurants in it through the 80s, and Chinese may have been one of them. I know the Bacchus existed in its classic form into maybe the early 90s or so (got food there even after we moved away) and I think some sort of fern-bar-type place took it over for awhile in the 90s and then it was shut down again completely for several years, which must have been when the old bar was torn out and the old carved tables sold off. Montanabw(talk) 17:23, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
We used to get Teriyaki Burgers at the Bacchus in the late '70s. And yeah, remember the Pasta Company, too. The Robin and the Cannery were the bookends on Main and Wilson, with Charlie's Deli across the street. There was some angst when the Robin closed as I recall. Intothatdarkness (talk) 14:01, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
Ah! You date yourself! Remember: Charlie's was new; most of the 70s it was a bar called St. George and the Dragon, notable for its irregularity in carding underage patrons. (Though not the most notorious, on the nights with good bands, they'd card...). Montanabw(talk) 00:04, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
Yep. I remember when Charlie's went in, along with the renovation of that corner of Main and Wilson. Along with the predictions that Hell itself would open up and swallow Bozeman whole when Miss Kitty's opened.Intothatdarkness (talk) 14:03, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

old articlesEdit

I was just reading through and checking refs and stuff from a couple things you did long ago. I have to say I love the info, great work, and thank you. Still getting a handle on George Thomas Coker (already a GA), and was going through the John Heaphy Fellowes one. I ran into a dead link (this one), so I tried to follow the info at: Wikipedia:Link rot and fix it. I found this archive which I hope gives the proper reference. I'm no authority on cite formats, so I thought you might want to check it. I flubbed it on first try ... but ended up with this. If it can be improved on, I'd love to learn the right way to do it. ... gave it my best shot - but if I just messed things up - feel free to just revert. — Ched :  ?  20:18, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Hehe. No need to rv, I fixed it. On archive URLs you put the original one in the url= and the archive one in archiveurl= and the archive date in. I recall you asked about this article before, are you ready to work on it now? I'm ready if you are.PumpkinSky talk 20:28, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
Ahhhh .. cool. Thanks. I'm getting ready to go grab a bite to eat, but yea - I'd like to improve Fellowes' article - for sure. On a side note, as I was reading the Coker article and all the source stuff, and it struck me - so many of the true heroes in the military came from a "Scouting" background. Pretty fascinating stuff actually. Anyway .. I've bookmarked the current refs, and am reading up on him. I'll try out that highbeam thing too .. and maybe ask MBianz if there's any JSTOR info available. Hope you're having a great weekend. — Ched :  ?  20:41, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
Glad you like my work, it's great to be appreciated! Best wishes.PumpkinSky talk 20:45, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
I never said I liked anything you did ... LOL .. just kiddin with ya. I added a paragraph ... I'd like to get the Jane Fonda thing and the way they used cigarettes in there too ... just not sure how to do it yet. I didn't put the ref in yet either ... I asked Matt if he could give us a PDF from JSTOR ... we can do this. :) — Ched :  ?  00:42, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
You can ask me too. What's the JSTOR number?--Wehwalt (talk) 00:47, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Peer reviewEdit

From one primary editor to another, with each of us passionately putting over 500 edits into our articles, I like how our articles were placed under peer review at just about the same time. Mine (Folding@home) was yesterday, yours (yogo sapphire) was today. I just thought that was interesting and slightly amusing. I'll read the YS article over pretty soon. Good luck to you, Jesse V. (talk) 23:50, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Good luck to you too. That was interesting and sheer coincidence.PumpkinSky talk 23:51, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!Edit

  The Original Barnstar
For transforming the English Wiki entry on Horst von der Goltz, a former stump of an entry into a much more thoroughly-fleshed-out article by translating and adding the German Wiki entry. User:Natty10000 [Stop me before I edit again!] 12:21, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
Oh, why thank you! Glad to do it. It was interesting.PumpkinSky talk 21:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Eagle's StoreEdit

  Hello! Your submission of Eagle's Store at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 22:05, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I'm starting to assemble better sources for the article. The National Register of Historic Places card indicates that West Yellowstone, Montana and not Eagle's Store is the actual historic landmark. Is my understanding correct? Best, Yoninah (talk) 15:29, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
It was part of a multiple nomination, but it has its own ref number. Go to here, change the state to MT, type in "Eagle's Store", click submit, then repeat but type in "West Yellowstone" and see you get different refnums. I'll ask Nytend to chime in here as he's the real expert on NRHP listings and how they mesh into wiki articles, but my understanding is if they have their own ref num they get their own article. Related is the first paragraph of the above thread User_talk:PumpkinSky#Lehrkind_Mansion.PumpkinSky talk 15:38, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Please look over my response, and ask me for a fuller response if I didn't resolve the issues that I was trying to resolve. Individual properties get their own articles if they have their own reference numbers, but West Yellowstone MRA is a multiple property submission (MPS). We normally don't write articles on those, because many of them (including West Yellowstone) are simply about geographically-close groups of sites; for example, it looks like they went around the western portion of Yellowstone National Park, found a bunch of places that were likely to qualify for the National Register, and nominated them together. Sometimes an MPS will get its own article, but that's either because the subject of the MPS is well known (e.g. Land of the Cross-Tipped Churches, a culturally distinctive region of Ohio, which has received some academic interest), or because the MPS article is a good way to avoid having a pile of permastubs (e.g. Historic Firehouses of Louisville, where there's really not that much to say about individual firehouses). Nyttend (talk) 19:04, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Based on that it seems to me pretty clear that we should leave Eagle's Store as its own article. PumpkinSky talk 19:08, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I'd agree, since you found relevant information in other sources. Nyttend (talk) 19:13, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

PumpkinSky: Please have a look at how I edited the article. I removed the company website as a source and added more refs. I removed much of the biographical information about Sam and Ida, as that is really for another article. I also copied the part about the design into the National Park Service rustic and Fred F. Willson articles so this won't be an orphan. If you like it, we can move ahead with the DYK nom. Best, Yoninah (talk) 21:04, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

"Razed in 1927 and constructed in 3 stages until 1930"[3], also see Shea, p. 57. Yoninah (talk) 21:10, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Hmm. We generally leave the infobox data as it comes from the db and elaborate in the text. PumpkinSky talk 21:13, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Look, it's after midnight where I am and I have to check out. Perhaps you could discuss this with Nyttend and I'll be back in touch tomorrow night. Yoninah (talk) 21:16, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
No problem. We just need to decide what to do with the minor issue of the construction date. PumpkinSky talk 21:27, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
I remember reading it before, but I don't understand what the issue is. Nyttend (talk) 03:57, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
(watching) The building was constructed from 1927 to 1930. Which date goes as year of construction? Can the box take "1927 to 1930", or would that confuse sorts? Learning, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:54, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
You first said to look at the 21:04 comment, which doesn't discuss the construction date; that's why I was confused. Except in the case of factual errors (e.g. addresses are wrong, or it says that a property was built decades after construction finished), we generally leave the infobox as is. For NR purposes, there's generally only one year that's the date of significance, and that's really what this portion of the infobox is meant to reflect, rather than the full timespan of construction. Nyttend (talk) 11:42, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, will change to 1927.PumpkinSky talk 16:40, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Spieth and Krug BreweryEdit

I have no doubts its notable, perhaps you could give it some organization with subheadings and a lede paragraph. ( DGG ( talk ) 01:50, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

done.PumpkinSky talk 02:04, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Eagle's StoreEdit

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:04, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

David RebiboEdit

Except for sources like, I can't find his date of birth. Yoninah (talk) 15:09, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Powers, Principalities, Thrones and Dominions rejected, yet promoted to prep?Edit

I think you meant to promote this DYK nomination, but the fact remains that you actually rejected it, which is a problem. This needs to be fixed or clarified if it was a real rejection. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:48, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Just a typing error. Fixing now. PumpkinSky talk 03:11, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Woodhouse House (Virginia Beach, Virginia)Edit

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:03, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Camp Paxson Boy Scout CampEdit

Which number? Do you mean 24MO77? That's a Smithsonian trinomial; see here for a detailed explanation. Basically, each state has a number from 1 to 48 (this was devised before Alaska and Hawaii were states; they have numbers 49 and 50 as a result), and then there's a one- or two-letter bit for the county name, and then the number for the site itself; these numbers are generally given to reflect the order in which sites were officially recorded. For example, site 12MO133 is the 133rd site to be recorded in county MO (Monroe) of state 12 (Indiana). In Indiana, there were many county-level surveys (example) that gave sites numbers, and they were later merged into the Smithsonian trinomial system; I don't know about how it was done in other states, but for these Indiana county surveys, they simply started in one part of the county and recorded major sites as they wandered around the countryside, so the smallest numbers are generally major sites (excavated by past generations or otherwise well known to the average people, from whom the initial surveyors learned site locations), and the higher the number, often the least significant, because so many major sites had already been found.

All this being said, I'm quite surprised to see that this specific site is listed under criteria A (event) and C (architecture/engineering). The 24MO77 indicator means that there's an archaeological site there. Judging by comparable sites in Indiana, I expect that it's recorded as a historic archaeological site, and the SHPO is interested in it so that they can learn more about construction methods and other less-likely-to-be-written elements of its earliest years. However, the site is not NR-listed under criterion D (archaeological significance) — some locations with archaeological sites (e.g. Columbia Baptist Cemetery) are listed purely for non-archaeological significance, but it would be quite odd for them to include the site number for a place where the site wasn't contributing.

Now I really hope that you meant 24MO77 :-) If you meant a different number, tell me which one and I'll try to help. Nyttend (talk) 23:55, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

That's good, but why does it show up in the name on the query tool when those numbers don't show up on other queries I've made? PumpkinSky talk 23:57, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Because for some reason the NR nomination included the site number in the official name by which they wanted it to be listed on the Register. It's my impression that the name picked for the nomination is at least partly the choice of the person(s) writing the nomination form if more than one name could be picked; SHPO approves names or tells nomination writers to revise things, but they don't pick names or write nominations themselves. Look at the entries on the list of Native American archaeological sites on the National Register of Historic Places in Pennsylvania — some of them have no site numbers, some have numbers of this format (e.g. Carbaugh Run), some of them have differently-formatted numbers (e.g. Park), and two of them are listed purely by their site numbers, rather than by the names that I used to create their articles. Nyttend (talk) 00:07, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Totally inconsistent. So I should remove the number from the wiki article name? PumpkinSky talk 00:13, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes. Unless the site is obscure and really only known by its site number, naming the article by its site number is not good per WP:UCN, and including the site number and the name is even less likely to pass UCN. Nyttend (talk) 00:15, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
By the way, what to do about User:PumpkinSky/Camp Paxson Boy Scout Camp (24MO77) and its talk page? Would you like me to delete them, or are you happy to leave them sitting around? Nyttend (talk) 00:50, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
delete pls, thanks. Wish I had a free photo too.PumpkinSky talk 00:51, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Done. Hope you don't mind my asking — are you in Montana right now? Just idly curious, since all of your recent NR-related writing that I've seen is related to Montana. Nyttend (talk) 00:56, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
By the way, I found this image; you could email the uploader for a license change if you have a Flickr account, although he's not uploaded anything in two years. By the way, I've moved the page again — you accidentally moved the page into mainspace. It's now at User:PumpkinSky/Camp Paxson Boy Scout Camp. Nyttend (talk) 01:00, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm a Montana ex-pat. I love the state and people, miss it a lot!PumpkinSky talk 01:00, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the fix. I don't have a flickr account. Do you or someone you know? PumpkinSky talk 01:05, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I do, but I can't remember the password (it's been forever since I used it, and I've only ever uploaded one picture), so I may not be able to help there. You might do well to go to Commons:COM:F and ask for help from users who are active at some of the linked pages. You're welcome on the move; it took me a little while before I realised that you hadn't applied some template to cause the page title to display weirdly. I have no experience with Montana; I've never been closer than the northern edge of Laramie. Nyttend (talk) 01:25, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Pictures don't do it justice. You have to see for yourself. Beautiful state. Friendly people. And totally not crowded. PumpkinSky talk 01:28, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Well, most of us are friendly. Right at the moment, someone here on WP thinks I'm a total bitch and is encouraging someone who wants to topic-ban me from all the horse articles. I'm not feeling very friendly. Oh, and it snowed over the weekend here. Yes, the whole state must have washed their cars and planned barbeques! (LOL!) Montanabw(talk) 18:33, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

───────────────────────── Ummmm ... considering some of the conversations I've had recently with other "WOMEN" IRL - I think I'll withhold and comments on the "B" word. :-) <ched runs> Chedzilla (talk) 18:56, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I can't even imagine MTBW as the "B" word.PumpkinSky talk 20:54, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Glad someone feels that way! That said, if I had a dime for every time it's been used to refer to me, particularly when I've called someone on their, er, stuff ... =:-O Montanabw(talk) 23:12, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Don't know about Montana, but everyone should just stay away from Alaska. It's never beautiful and majestic at all right now, always a frozen wasteland. :D And Montanabw, "=:-O" resembles the Enterprise. :) Live long and prosper, Jesse V. (talk) 03:57, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
@ Jesse - The needs of the many? :-)
@ Montanabw - Sorry, I can't talk about my "stuff" with married women. :-) BAAHAAHAA <Ched runs and hides>
@PS .. you do have a most entertaining talk page. :) Chedzilla (talk) 11:42, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Ched, I wasn't talking about that "stuff" I was discussing the human equivalent of manure. And yes, Jesse, =:O Engage warp nacelles, please. Montanabw(talk) 16:40, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Make it so, Number One! :D Jesse V. (talk) 19:26, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks to all for making my page so interesting! More thread hijacking...was Troi the hottest babe on ST TNG? PumpkinSky talk 21:33, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Probably, but Dr. Crusher was the smartest officer on the ship and never lost her professional cool! Montanabw(talk) 23:02, 30 May 2012 (UTC)


Hello, PumpkinSky. You have new messages at Neutralhomer's talk page.
Message added 03:28, 28 May 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

NeutralhomerTalk • 03:28, 28 May 2012 (UTC) 03:28, 28 May 2012 (UTC)


Hey Chedzilla. Nice work. I really don't see anything wrong with it. But if you want to get it to GA, are there more sources/info available? Especially in the early life and personal life areas. Also, in the Coker article, this is a dead link, can you find an archiveurl? PumpkinSky talk 10:04, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Jack showed me a couple things I had missed .. annnn .. you gonna love dis one ... I spelled the author's name wrong on the sfn .. LMFAO ... anyway - No - I haven't searched for more sources yet. Also have to get that one web cite ref put in for the one paragraph I added a while back. Think I may still have it in my email. I'll be busy a good part of today - but maybe tonight I can find some refs - will drop on article talk page and start working from there. I don't know if I can find enough to build into GA - but worth a look. I'll see what I can dig up on that dead link too. cheers. Chedzilla (talk) 10:31, 29 May 2012 (UTC) (aka Ched) :)
Hmmmm ... wayback machine doesn't have an archive of it - but: I did find a free streamable version of the documentary at:
And there's an analysis of it in pdf at:
The pdf might be useable as the ref since it does mention Coker on the third page and may be the material you used the orig. ref from. Chedzilla (talk) 11:01, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Might be Coker at 9:57 of vid. footage. Chedzilla (talk) 11:07, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
I have a copy of H&M on DVD. The PDF is interesting but very biased. Note it doesn't say one thing about our POWs having being brutally tortured. I rm'd the ref as we have two for that and the other is NYT. Added the PDF as an external link.PumpkinSky talk 11:13, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK rejectionEdit

I'm disappointed that the DYK proposal for Isothermal microcalorimetry was rejected. I saw a comment that some sections weren't referenced, which is literally true, but I'll bet this article was better referenced than anything else on today's DYK page. I wrote to the main editor, offering to help provide additional references, but that was yesterday, and I haven't heard back. Is that the reason for rejection?--SPhilbrick(Talk) 11:41, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I just heard back from the editor, who has some pressing items to handle so can't immediately respond. As I told him, we ought to improve the referencing irrespective of whether it is a DYK, so we will attend to that, but if cleanup in a couple days would help, please let me know.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 13:27, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Very much beyond my topics of knowledge, but being aware of your always helpful input - and the obvious hard work and great efforts by Dan, then I'll take a look and see if I can find anything for it too; later tonight or perhaps tomorrow morning. Not sure where it is on the "needs to be done by" scale .. but hey - I'll try if I can. Chedzilla (talk) 13:50, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
That comment was made my Crisco 6 days ago, not a couple. If he has time to respond to you why doesn't he have time to respond to the DYK nom?PumpkinSky talk 15:40, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
He is primarily a researcher, who decided to make an article about a subject he knows about. He doesn't monitor Wikipedia every day. I contacted him via email, precisely because he doesn't regularly visit WP. He doesn't know a DYK from a hole in the ground, I thought it would be a nice thing to do. So I erred in missing the notice. I realize I have over 8K articles on my watchlist, and must reduce it, because I missed the note. It is also worth noting that he is a bit surprised at what needs referencing. The device records the information on computer files, which can be reviewed later. Seriously? That needs a reference? I told him it does, but I understand his surprise.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 12:54, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Addendum, I am over-committed to promises, on wiki and off, so do not have the time to follow up on this. It's still slightly odd that a brand-new article with 63 quality references is dinged for not being adequately referenced, but I do understand; I had hoped it was something that could be easily rectified, but that isn't turning out to be the case.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 14:44, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I think a lot of things on wiki are overdone too. No matter what you do on wiki, someone gets pissed off. If you want to overturn it, go ahead.PumpkinSky talk 21:29, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your note. If I came across as miffed, I didn't intend to. I have too many balls in the air, and I thought this was going to be low-hanging fruit. I told the editor it ought to be better referenced, no matter what, and if that happens soon, I'll beg, if not, no biggie. My sense is that there are more proposed DYK's than slots, requiring some sort of trimming. If so, this is a good thing.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 21:43, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

The feedback boxEdit

To PumpkinSky and all interested talk page stalkers: ever wonder where the feedback goes from those new feedback boxes at the bottom of some Wikipedia article? The WMF just unveiled the Central Feedback Page, which collects all feedback from all the articles. I invite you to check it out, and once you see how it works, feel free to give feedback using the "what do you think of this page" button in the upper right-hand corner of the page. Just thought I'd let everyone know. Jesse V. (talk) 17:09, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Camp Paxson Boy Scout CampEdit

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:02, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for !votingEdit

  at my successful RFA
Thank you, PumpkinSky, for !voting at my successful RFA; I am humbled that you put your trust in me. I grant you this flower, which, if tended to properly, will grow to be the fruit of Wikipedia's labours. Now I can add smokejumpers to my vocab. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)


Hello, PumpkinSky. You have new messages at Stefan2's talk page.
Message added 14:10, 3 June 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Stefan2 (talk) 14:10, 3 June 2012 (UTC)


Would you prefer that I don't review Yogo sapphire? If so, please let me know and I'll strike my comments or something. I've kept the page on my watchlist because I've always liked it, but I'm more than aware that polarization exists between groups of editors, and given this comment Taht "pack" iz a problem; uze teh kitteh'z teeth to byte their sorry azzez, I seem to be lumped in the pack that's perceived as a problem. Anyway, don't want to cause problems, so dropping by here to let you know. I think the page is looking much better, but also I think it still needs a bit of polishing (pun intended). Truthkeeper (talk) 21:49, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

It's fine you edit. I'm uploading definitely free photos now, published in 1900, so there's no doubt. I read you post already. A few of your points I don't agree with, but I'm sure it can be worked out. No problem.PumpkinSky talk 21:52, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Response to two messagesEdit

Thanks for the Yogo NRHP proposal, but at least I couldn't do it — anyone may put together nominations, but you have to be on the ground to do the research. There's no way that one could do it remotely. Regarding VA Beach, I think it best if you put a section in the established article discussing the HD. Judging by the map, the HD appears to include the whole old portion of the base, and I don't think separate articles would help. Besides including the HD content in the Camp Pendleton article, just pipe the link on the list and create Camp Pendleton-State Military Reservation Historic District as a redirect to Camp Pendleton. Of course, if you disagree, go ahead; it's for that precise reason that I've not changed the link and created the redirect myself. Nyttend (talk) 01:34, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, right now you're at 2.3 expansion, even after I added a couple of hundred characters. I suppose you could have done it with enough sources, but it's rather too late now. Getting away from DYK, you've done nice work; thanks for letting me know. Just please note the edit summary here; WP:NRHP has had a lot of discussion about this, and after reviewing lots of NPS and related government information, we've realised that there's no noun or noun phrase that can properly be used to refer to "a place that is listed on the National Register". Nyttend (talk) 03:15, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for the kind words and for all your help. We should come up with such a phrase huh?PumpkinSky talk 09:55, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
We (unintentionally) tried. For a long time, all of the lists were "List of Registered Historic Places in _____". Nyttend (talk) 10:36, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Re:Yogo FACEdit

Technically, if you're looking for an expert opinion on a legal matter, I suppose you should go to Geoff Brigham, our current general counsel. Media copyright questions is technically the community page for it, but it's not very active. The non-free content talk page attracts a lot of people who put forward views on this sort of thing. J Milburn (talk) 15:48, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Also, I totally did not realise that PumpkinSky=Rlevse. J Milburn (talk) 15:55, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. I'll ask at the first one, there are several recent posts/answers there.PumpkinSky talk 19:19, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Question regarding Chinese IndonesiansEdit

Mark says you know quite a bit about Asia, so I wanted your opinion on this. Do you think this oppose vote holds water? I've worked on clarifying what is pertinent to the article and have tried to avoid going too in-depth, but it appears the reviewer doesn't agree. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:07, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

The single best advice I can give regarding an opposer at FAC is to work with them, if they allow it, this is almost always the best course. That being said, in my view that is not a valid oppose. Yes, it's probably safe to say I know a fair bit about Asia. I've been in over 40 countries, lived in Asia 8 years, lived in Europe 1 year, and my wife is native Thai. Ling stated he didn't like lumping people into large groups, but that is done for quite legitimate reasons, such as academic (one can major in women's studies) and medical reasons (diseases specific to certain groups such as sickle cell). You already mentioned WP:COMMON. On wiki we have Women in Vietnam (that's half the country lumped into one large group), the FA Taiwanese aborigines, the FA Tamil people, Thai Chinese--a lengthy article on Thai citizens of Chinese background--note in American we'd call them Chinese Thai but in Thailand they say "Thai Chinese", Thai American, African American, etc. So if Ling's oppose is based solely on the fact your article is about a distinctive cultural group, I feel it's not valid. I've actually been looking over your FAC but not deeply yet; I was planning to do that this weekend. Hope this helps.PumpkinSky talk 10:05, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Alright. Now I feel guilty about not looking at the sapphires yet. This weekend, if my connection is holding. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:30, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
I live five years in Indonesia, and know a fair number of Chinese Indonesians. It is a distinct and important group in the cultural dynamics of the region and has been for ages. It is certainly a well studied group even if there are sceptics. The issues of 1965–66 and '98 involved them heavily, although those were mostly about larger scale politics; 1965–66 was mostly about land reform, not Komunisme. If you'd like, I'll comment at the FAC. I doubt we'll ever have an article on Tanzanian Nicaraguans, though ;) Br'er Rabbit (talk) 00:40, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, we do have Irish Uruguayans... Mark Arsten (talk) 03:26, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
The potato famine drove Irish all over the world, including some of my ancestors.PumpkinSky talk 10:28, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Jack, should you want to weigh in you'd be more than welcome. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:15, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for youEdit

Δ This user has endured a wide breadth of the institutional ignorance that darkens this organization, yet loves it still. Δ

When I told BR that some others also deserved the "Black barnstar of institutional shame", you were exactly one of the editors I was thinking about. Though I am not proud that our beloved Wikipedia has some dark corners, I am extremely proud at seeing ones like yourself who have endured; and now strengthen our own collective will to eradicate these vestiges of sorrow where the imbecile reigns. My76Strat (talk) 15:41, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

(Applauds)--Wehwalt (talk) 15:43, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
(Cheers)--Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:46, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
YEAH!!! Thanks guys, I love this one! PumpkinSky talk 17:10, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
(Whistles)--(olive (talk) 17:27, 9 June 2012 (UTC))
  Like.  Br'erRabbit  23:51, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Select all and you can see the text in the barnstar.PumpkinSky talk 18:02, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
ROFLMAO! Love it! Montanabw(talk) 20:14, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Skillz Jesse V. (talk) 01:38, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Bozeman Brewery Historic DistrictEdit

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:07, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Spieth and Krug BreweryEdit

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:07, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Something to considerEdit

I just realized that if Yogo sapphire becomes a FA, (which it most likely will) then it'll eventually appear on the Main Page. I can only imagine how epic that would be. My question to you is, have you given any thought as to when you'd like the article to appear? IIRC, Transit of Venus was the Featured Article of the Day on the 5th, which was during the actual transit of Venus. Therefore, it is possible to request certain articles to appear on certain days, although I don't know if you need a good reason or not. In any case, I'd recommend that you look at WP:TFA for more information. Good luck! Jesse V. (talk) 06:26, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

As Raul is, it seems, not running my articles on the main page at present, apparently because he perceives me as having opposed his continued directorship (I did not then oppose him, actually, but I felt it appropriate to take the side of community consent vs. divine right), I have no reason to believe he would run PS's articles, since PS advocated Raul's removal. In fact, most likely he would not use the article, though it is highly meritorious. Using the main page to reward one's friends and punish one's perceived enemies is a bit regrettable. I don't actually mind, it saves me a lot of aggravation, but it's a bit hard on PS. That being said, a run at WP:TFA/R might be a good idea, if only to force him to publicly say no or otherwise refuse the article.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:24, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes, this had crossed my mind but there's no obvious date it seems, so I'd have to think on it more and consider points you both made.PumpkinSky talk 09:53, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
I had no idea. Montanabw, Nikkimaria, Vsmith, or Dreadstar may have better chances if Raul's COI prevents you from pushing it to the Main Page yourself. Jesse V. (talk) 17:29, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
I just want it through the FA gauntlet first. There is a formula for getting an article "points" to be TFA, which includes how long it's been a FA without being TFA. So my suggestion is to get it FA and then revisit this question in about six months. Montanabw(talk) 19:46, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Totally agree, first things first.PumpkinSky talk 21:26, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Concur, first things first. "He who did sell the lion's skin, while the beast lived, was killed with hunting't."--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
"No harm in being prepared" - Sam Gamgee Jesse V. (talk) 22:32, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
I'm convinced there was a large truck which accompanied Gamgee everywhere with all his supplies, but Tolkien forgot to mention it. I've decided to nom Washington quarter for August 1 when that date's available, just to see what happens. 80th anniversary of release.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:33, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Well I'm convinced Tolkien actually went to Middle-earth and just recorded everything he saw there. Perhaps he was too busy learning the intricacies of Elvish to notice the truck. Jesse V. (talk) 23:49, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
He probably drove it and didn't want to make himself a character. A lorry, then, it would have been. Terrible trouble getting it through Moria, even the Balrog had to shove to get it through the narrower parts. The Balrog knew better than to offend the author. Not that it helped him in the end.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:56, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
You're probably right, after all, why else would The Shire have been so industrialized at the end of The Hobbit, but for fossil fuel production? :-P Montanabw(talk) 16:21, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Clearly. And how did Saruman create an explosive to use against Helm's Deep? I think someone let slip the formula for gunpowder... Jesse V. (talk) 17:10, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
To channel Bored of the Rings, purchased from an elf named Amy Surplus, or something like that. I have this vision of Tolkien, leaning against the hood of his lorry and making eyes at Galadriel.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:58, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Query regarding DYK setmakingEdit

I am wondering if you have a comment for Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Template:Did you know nominations/Artist's Studio—Look Mickey, Look Mickey.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:35, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Responded.PumpkinSky talk 01:47, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Full Service: My Adventures in Hollywood and the Secret Sex Lives of the StarsEdit

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 16:04, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Surprise: thank you for sharing credit with me for adding almost nothing and proposing a hook that you didn't like (to put it mildly)! Very generous and kind, precious! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:09, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
No problem!PumpkinSky talk 18:40, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
Happy I didn't promise too much, regarding the stats ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:21, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

"Victory! We have victory!" -TheodenEdit

  The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
PumpkinSky, in the wake of your victory over the Yogo sapphire article, I just wanted to say that I have been very impressed over the last year watching you and other editors endlessly toil over every detail of the Yogo sapphire article. I doubt I would have that much patience and stamina, and neither do many other Wikipedians. Achieving FA status is truly remarkable, and you have my deepest respect. I hearby award you this barnstar for your efforts. *sharp salute* Jesse V. (talk) 06:07, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much. This is so nice to see when you first log in. I could not have done it alone, many helped and that include you. PumpkinSky talk 10:04, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Hooray! Hooray! Hooray! and yipeeeeeeee!, too! Montanabw(talk) 16:52, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Precious (the real thing) ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:47, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
You give WAY too much credit to me! You did the lion's share of the work, went to Hades and back, and came out with a beautiful article. It was a heavy lift, but you carried it all the way. Congratulations!!!! - Tim1965 (talk) 00:56, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much.PumpkinSky talk 00:58, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Some interesting stats for you: the article was created by you on October 24, 2011‎, 240 days ago, (7 months, 27 days ago). GA status was achieved on December 5, 2011, 198 days ago. As you can see from this page, work pretty much stalled out while you were away starting on February 15, but quickly got back on course since April 14 once you were able to edit again. You were gone for 59 days, and since you have made 643 edits to Yogo sapphire, that averages 3.55 edits per day from you. The perseverance and speed at which the work went forward is impressive. If I may ask, what was motivating you to work so hard? Jesse V. (talk) 02:35, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Quite interesting. I love Montana, though I'm an expat now. Yogo sapphires are quintessentially Montanan, almost as much as cowboys, hard to explain if you haven't lived there. And I like make nice articles.PumpkinSky talk 09:28, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm suspecting that you're getting tired of reading your own writing again and again and again. So, here is Yogo sapphire in Irish: [4]. Enjoy! Jesse V. (talk) 17:13, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Irish is much faster than German ;) Impressive! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:26, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
ROFL GREAT!PumpkinSky talk 20:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

The article will see a huge spike in popularity once on the Main page. I think everyone should be prepared to handle vandalism and any inappropriate edits. Hold formation! Jesse V. (talk) 23:40, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Enjoy the day yes, but you'll go nuts trying to keep up with vandals. What you do is ignore it, plenty of people watch TFAs, then when it's all over you do a diff on the before and after version, keep the good and ditch the bad. PumpkinSky talk 23:43, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
Ah. That's a good outlook to have. In that case you guys should just revel in the coolness of your writing being above the fold for a day. Jesse V. (talk) 23:52, 25 June 2012 (UTC)


You going to DYK Baxter? Montanabw(talk) 21:44, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Already did. See responses to reviewer I made a few minutes ago.PumpkinSky talk 21:45, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Cool! Montanabw(talk) 22:18, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Four AwardEdit

  Four Award
Congratulations! You have been awarded the Four Award for your work from beginning to end on Yogo sapphire. LittleMountain5 00:58, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Great work! LittleMountain5 00:58, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!PumpkinSky talk 01:06, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
No problem! You're not blind, the only thing I did was place the talk page in the Four Award articles category. Categories are listed at the bottom of the page. We use the category to keep a current tally of how many Four Award certified articles there are. Anyway, that's all the ArticleHistory template does at this point, so there are no obvious changes. Cheers, LittleMountain5 01:24, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
To quote you: Well Deserved! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:57, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


Hello, PumpkinSky. You have new messages at Stefan2's talk page.
Message added 12:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Stefan2 (talk) 12:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Hello, PumpkinSky. You have new messages at Jesse V.'s talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Jesse V. (talk) 15:19, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Old SubpagesEdit

Hi Pumpkin, I'm assuming it was your email that requested the restoration of all your old subpages, I was wondering if you were planning to redirect/move them to your new username or what your plans are for them, since at the moment they've added a huge chunk to my weekly task of clearing Wikipedia:Database reports/Ownerless pages in the user space. (You could also just re-register your old username, which would probably be a sensible thing to do anyway)--Jac16888 Talk 12:36, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Yea, I'll reregister. And yes, I asked for restoration.PumpkinSky talk 12:39, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Ok thanks, that will sort my backlog. --Jac16888 Talk 12:43, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
It won't let me, because it's part of the SUL system. Will contact a crat.PumpkinSky talk 12:44, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
OK, I logged into my old WikiSource account, which was never renamed or anything. THen I logged into en wiki as R and it recreated the account and I verified that with Special:Listusers. This will also prevent imposters. At this point I'm not sure what can be done about the old edits R made, but I'm more worried about the user and subpages, and impersonation, which seems to be under control now.PumpkinSky talk 12:55, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Seems all your edits under R are now under vanished whosits, so a redirect or link from there to here should clarify those edits, and impersonation was the real issue so I'd say problem solved--Jac16888 Talk 13:15, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
I've asked MBisanz to check all that stuff out. I just brought User:Dog The Teddy Bear back too, he's cool. PumpkinSky talk 13:17, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
woof! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:37, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
@MBisanz...I can't get into User:Dog The Teddy Bear, not with wiki email recovery, nor gmail recovery, etc. Please rename User:Dog The Teddy Bear to User:Dog The Teddy Bear OLD and I'll recreate it as User:Dog The Teddy Bear. Thanks.PumpkinSky talk 14:45, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
I thought he was a bounty hunter, not a teddy bear. Or does he do both roles? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 15:13, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Dog is very good at multitasking.PumpkinSky talk 15:14, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Hi! Have you tried logging into commons:User:Dog_The_Teddy_Bear? Also, if that doesn't work, I can try breaking his SUL and then seeing if it will log in. Also, I can try swapping the new R account with the vanished R account to reattribute the edits if you wanted that. Just let me know after you try the commons Dog account. MBisanz talk 15:53, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Dog on Commons does not work. I may be really hosed on this one. I have a vague memory of scrambling the password on Dog. Yikes. While I really really like Dog The Teddy Bear account maybe I could make a new account "Dog" The Teddy Bear or DogTheTedyyBear or Dog, The Teddy Bear. As for the R accounts, yea give the reattribution thing a try.PumpkinSky talk 16:02, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Mmm, ok. I tried deleting the SUL to Dog. If that doesn't work, I'll do the rename or you can create a new account. Either way works for me. MBisanz talk 16:31, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
I'm going with Puppy of Dog The Teddy Bear. Let me know when the R reatt thing is done/how it's going. PumpkinSky talk 17:20, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Okey, I shifted stuff around on the R thing, so it should all look right. MBisanz talk 18:16, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Cool. Are the "vanished" edits going to change to Rlevse or is that too much to do?PumpkinSky talk 18:18, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
They should over the next two or three days, but if they don't, I'll poke someone higher up to move them along. It's a reflection of how the software handles large or old accounts. Let me know if I can help anytime. Congrats on the article. MBisanz talk 18:21, 23 June 2012 (UTC)


You've been to the top - and suffered through being at the bottom. I do honestly and truly admire your courage, strength, and fortitude. Through all the hell and damnation you've been subjected to - you've continued with the goal of actually improving the wikipedia project, adding actual content, and making "zOMG" articles better for the people who come here to READ and LEARN. If I ever do come back and actually work on articles .. it will be because of people like you. I'm proud to know you sir. Chedzilla (talk) 17:10, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Ched. I have experienced A LOT here, yes indeed. I may be the only one in that exact situation. It changed my views on a lot of things. Wearing another's shoes tends to do that. Yogo sapphire is what it's all about. And you do need to get back to that article on Fellowes.PumpkinSky talk 17:15, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

You've got mail!Edit

Hello, PumpkinSky. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 17:21, 23 June 2012 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Keilana|Parlez ici 17:21, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Responded already.PumpkinSky talk 17:27, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Uwe Schulten-BaumerEdit

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 17:15, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Better late than neverEdit

  The 50 DYK Creation and Expansion Medal
For sticking with Wikipedia and Did You Know and providing us with articles on dissidents, wild places, historic buildings, horses and even tell-all books, I am proud to present you with this medal. Thank you :-) Yngvadottir (talk) 19:16, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
THANKS!!PumpkinSky talk 19:59, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

SG for Woodhouse House (Virginia Beach)Edit

The Signpost: 25 June 2012Edit

DYK for Hotel BaxterEdit

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:03, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Ooh rahEdit

Ooh rah, eh? When did we get into the Marine spirit? :) - NeutralhomerTalk • 12:07, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

-) PumpkinSky talk 18
39, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Semper Fi :-) Chedzilla (talk) 07:58, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
We're lean mean wiki machines! PumpkinSky talk 09:49, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Main page appearance: Yogo sapphireEdit

This is a note to let the main editors of Yogo sapphire know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on June 30, 2012. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/June 30, 2012. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or his delegate Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you might change it—following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. The blurb as it stands now is below:

Yogo sapphires are a variety of corundum found only in Yogo Gulch, Montana, part of the Little Belt Mountains in Judith Basin County, on land once inhabited by the Piegan Blackfeet people. Yogos are typically cornflower blue in color, a result of trace amounts of iron and titanium. Many gemologists consider them among the finest sapphires in the world. They have high uniform clarity and maintain their brilliance under artificial light. Because Yogo sapphires occur within a vertically dipping resistive igneous dike, mining efforts have been sporadic and rarely profitable. It is estimated that at least 28,000,000 carats (5,600 kg) of Yogos are still in the ground. The Smithsonian Institution first reported on Yogos in the museum's annual report on June 30, 1899. Jewelry containing Yogos was given to First Ladies Florence Harding and Bess Truman; in addition, many gems were sold in Europe. Today, several Yogo sapphires are part of the Smithsonian Institution's gem collection. In 1969, the sapphire was co-designated along with the agate as Montana's state gemstones. (more...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 23:01, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I've sure you know why I picked this as my symbol of excellence ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:08, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
It's on the Main Page. See for yourself! :D Jesse V. (talk) 01:38, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Congratulations on your return to the top of the main page! 28bytes (talk) 04:07, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Thank you 28! PumpkinSky talk 10:16, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
  • SMACK ON THE FRONT PAGE, BABY!!!!!!!!! Awesome! Spectacular! Fireworks! Three cheers and a tiger for you! And correct me if I'm wrong, but this is also the first Montana-themed article to be Featured Article of the Day, too. You win a trip to Columbia Falls Water Park or Fairmont Hot Springs! YAY!! :) - Tim1965 (talk) 13:09, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Why thank you! Actually, see WP:Montana, there are three other MT FAs listed there (GLacier, Yellowstone, Yellowstone fires) and all have been TFA, though one could argue those touch WY and Canada and the Yogo is "more Montanan" ;-) PumpkinSky talk 13:12, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
How do I collect on my trip? I need a vacation. PumpkinSky talk 13:15, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Pay for it full price, of course! LOL! (By the way, pick Fairmont, not only is all the lodging, food and booze on site, the other one is merely close to a Super 8 and will be of more appeal to the under-15 crowd!) Montanabw(talk) 22:03, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Hey, I can't help but notice that Fairmont has no article... LOL! - Tim1965 (talk) 17:04, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Hooray! Cheers!
Wo denkst Du hin? Ferien gibt's noch nicht, erst de-Yogo ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:47, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
nominated --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:13, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Congratulations to all who worked on this article. What an excellent article it is, and since I love sapphires very informative and interesting to me personally. Beautiful work and collaboration. This is how Wikipedia should work seems to me. (olive (talk) 14:23, 30 June 2012 (UTC))
Thank you! And the team effort on this is how wiki should be, not what it is. PumpkinSky talk 14:55, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
This is how Wikipedia will become more and more with efforts like yours and those who worked on this article. So I disagree a little bit with you. :O) My work with you in the past such as it was, was like this. It was fun and so collaborative. I won't say more. So I'm thankful you are back and that you have been joined by editors who are like minded. Looking forward : this is how Wikipedia is becoming, I hope. If not it will destroy itself eventually as all negativity must. All best wishes PS. And to you and others: Thank you to for the light at the door and for showing the way despite all that went on in the past(olive (talk) 15:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC))
Returning from gorgeous fireworks, Rheingau Musik Festival 25 years, a fitting conclusion of a promising day, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:51, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

DYK discussionEdit

Hi, need your input here. Thanks --SMS Talk 19:06, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Nope, I will have nothing to do with a thread where I've already been tried and convicted.PumpkinSky talk 23:24, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Much thanksEdit

PumpkinSky...thanks again for your suggestions to make Grand Teton National Park even better...had it not been for your inquiry regarding the lead image caption, it would have remained incorrectly labelled...splendid.--MONGO 01:25, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

No problem. Glad it worked out. Another fine article by you. PumpkinSky talk 02:54, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
And...that was quick, but well deserved to have the Yogo Sapphire now on the Main Page...kudos to you and all those that worked on the article.--MONGO 22:36, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

From my perspectiveEdit

PumpkinSky, I'm sorry we knocked heads this evening. Perhaps I should have gone to your talk page, but from my perspective a hook that I'd just discovered major problems with and noted them on the nomination page had suddenly been promoted, so my goal was to get it out of the prep area right away. Here's the timing as I've been able to reconstruct it from the revision history pages; let me know if you see any errors:

  • 23:20: I start looking for some hooks to fill prep 3 or 4, and soon come across the Zalce, which looks promising. I'm not happy with the "took his name" wording, though, and check out the mexconnect source to see if I can get an idea for a slight rephrasing. Instead, I find familiar-looking phrasing.
  • 23:25: I run duplication detector; find way too many significant hits. Start writing up a "no"-based addition for the nomination detailing the problems.
  • 23:??: you find the Zalce, decide you're going to go with it.
  • 23:37: I save my Zalce review addition, which makes the hook ineligible for promotion.
  • 23:38: You promote the Zalce, which at the time includes my new addition.
  • 23:39: You add the Zalce to prep 1.
  • 23:43: I see that the Zalce is in prep 1.
  • 23:44: I revert the Zalce, and edit prep 1 to remove it.
  • 23:46: I add the removed hook to the Wikipedia:Did you know/Removed listing.
  • 23:47: You revert my prep 1 edit, restoring Zalce to prep 1.

The rest is on my talk page.

As you can see, it was a case of spectacularly bad timing: I nixed the check mark one minute before you went to promote the template. The odds against such a thing happening must be immense: this time they bit us. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:38, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes it was. No hard feelings here. Whenever I see a prep set with hooks in it, I always check to see it's been untouched for at least a couple hours before I edit it, What happened last night has happened to me many times and it can easily be avoided by the other person taking just a few seconds to see it it's being actively edited. PumpkinSky talk 09:50, 3 July 2012 (UTC)


Thanks for participating in my RFA! I appreciate your support. Zagalejo^^^ 06:37, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 02 July 2012Edit

FAR Millenium 73 - your commentEdit

"So far no one stepped forward, only talk so far." Last i checked, i just spent 3-4 hours fixing those annoying harv links, as best as i could without further experience in the more obscure details. I don't expect a medal or anything :), but please show a little more consideration. This is all voluntary for everyone. Thanks. GermanJoe (talk) 19:40, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Oops. Sorry. I've posted a correction there. PumpkinSky talk 21:27, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Lewis and Clark County Hospital HDEdit

Sorry, but I can't help you there. This is where its nomination will be if they get it online, but it's only one of the "This file hasn't yet been digitized" files. WP:NRHP help has nothing at all about Montana. If you go to the SHPO's website, you'll find this page, which links to a ContentDM page displaying nominations, but those are only for properties listed since 2006. I have three suggestions for getting information:

  • Email John Boughton at for help; according to this page, you should contact him for NR-related information
  • Request the nomination from
  • Try Google for other documentation.

Sorry I can't be more helpful. Nyttend (talk) 01:44, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Oops, that's CONTENTdm, not ContentDM. Nyttend (talk) 01:45, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
OK. Thanks for trying. 02:58, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination for Upper WolfsnareEdit

I placed this review/comment on the DYK nomination page. It approves the DYK as written but suggests you might want to consider an alternative or the addition of the location to the current hook. I think it would be a good idea to put a responsive comment on that page so the DYK does not sit unattended because editors are waiting to see if you respond. I hope this causes no inconvenience. Donner60 (talk) 04:41, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

  • Comment/Review:  
Article is new in main space, is long enough, clear and well written. It concerns a colonial era house once owned by an American patriot during the American Revolution, who also was one of two delegates from the county to the Virginia convention for ratification of the U.S. Constitution.
The article is supported by references and citations and is within the policy guidelines. Hook is supported by the citation.
The image is from the Wikipedia editor and is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license.
I can accept the hook as written. I might change "plantation" to "colonial" and add the location. An alternative might be something like "..that Upper Wolfsnare] (pictured), built in Princess Anne County, Virginia in 1759, and home of an American Revolution Patriot and U.S. Constitution state convention delegate, is still lived in?" Citations support this alternative as well. I think the author of the article should decide whether something like this is more interesting or appropriate or whether it should stay as it is. The current hook is easily within the character limit and the characters that would be showing in my alternative would still make the cut-off. It's close, which is why I did not add the name of Thomas Walke, IV. Article and hook are neutral and do not mention living people.
QPQ review listed.
Unless the editor would care to change the hook in any way, I believe this is ready for promotion to the queue. I will place these comments on editor's talk page.
Good idea. Will do. Thanks.PumpkinSky talk 10:38, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Further comments - full stream:

Hi. Thanks for the review of the DYK nom. I've posted the alt, slightly modified, as ALT1. Could you check it and post another tic mark below it so people don't wonder if it's still pending? Thanks. PumpkinSky talk 10:46, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Done! I posted this further review/comment on the DYK nomination page: Great. I think ALT1 is complete, meets all the criteria and is ready for promotion to the queue. Donner60 (talk) 21:26, 6 July 2012 (UTC) Donner60 (talk) 21:29, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, re DYKEdit

Sincere thanks, Pumpkin Sky, for your elevation of the DYK for Antinomian Controversy, and for your very kind words in regards to the article. You mentioned that you could help me with a few disambiguation links? and I would appreciate that. I just received a notification of two disambiguation problems, one of which I've fixed, but the other I haven't yet found. Apparently somewhere in the article I linked John Cotton without the modifier, so that it goes to a disambiguation page. Anyway, if you have the means to fix this, then by all means, please do, and any other fixes you can make will be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for your support.Sarnold17 (talk) 12:27, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)   Done. 28bytes (talk) 12:36, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!Edit

For DYK work moving things to the prep area. :)

LauraHale (talk) 12:47, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh, why thanks!PumpkinSky talk 12:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

... andEdit

thank you btw. :) hagd. — Ched :  ?  13:13, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Lewis and Clark County Hospital Historic DistrictEdit

  Hello! Your submission of Lewis and Clark County Hospital Historic District at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! LauraHale (talk) 00:40, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK for University of Freiburg Faculty of BiologyEdit

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:03, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

A cupcake for you!Edit

  Diligence in content creation. Cntras (talk) 14:05, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
YUM, Thanks!PumpkinSky talk 14:07, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Black Sandy State ParkEdit

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:02, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Stunning! I'm happy that I woke up soon enough to see this Moon, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:29, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes. I think it was MTBW that found that on flickr. Under a Commmons compatible license too. So I imported it to Commmoss. We're lucky to have found it.PumpkinSky talk 11:00, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
It goes well with the sun on the pumpkin sky --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:29, 8 July 2012 (UTC)


Hello, PumpkinSky. You have new messages at Dennis Brown's talk page.
Message added 03:07, 8 July 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Anderson9990 - what's up? 03:07, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

You've got mail!Edit

Hello, PumpkinSky. Please check your email; you've got mail! The subject is DYK.
Message added 16:05, 8 July 2012 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Rcsprinter (chatter) @ 16:05, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

A milkshake to go with your cupcakeEdit

Enjoy this treat for your help with Antinomian Controversy; I think I have your fixes in place, and will plan to promote the article after a bit more tweaking. BTW, I think the Saints Portal is good. If you go to the portal, there is a list of article topics at the top. "Antinomianism" would fit right in, except the article hasn't been written yet. My impression is that any religious figure(s) would be worthy of mention in that portal as well.

I was happy to see the DYK this morning, so thanks for moving things along so expeditiously!Sarnold17 (talk) 01:35, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

My pleasure. Glad you're happy, and thank you. PumpkinSky talk 01:39, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 09 July 2012Edit

DYK for Lewis and Clark County Hospital Historic DistrictEdit

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:01, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for another quality article with a great image, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:37, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. Glad you like it.PumpkinSky talk 09:58, 13 July 2012 (UTC)


Hi PS. Schrofen is a German mountaineering term for a type of steep, rocky terrain, so Schrofenflanken could be translated as "steep, rocky, flanks". You can see an example on the right-hand side of the image. Südabbrüche are the steep mountain slopes on the south side of the mountain. This is not an easy translation, especially without knowing the mountain, but my suggestion for those 2 sentences would be something like this:

"Seen from the north it stands out as a relatively isolated, broad summit block, whose mighty rock faces and steep, rocky flanks (Schrofen) fall away on all sides. Its 1,200-metre-high south face is impressive and makes the Fritzerkogel a striking two-thousander.

Hope that helps. I did skim Laufen Hut and it looked pretty good, but I didn't compare it line by line with the original. Gruß. --Bermicourt (talk) 07:05, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Vielen DankPumpkinSky talk 09:58, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps also translate the general de:Alpine Route? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:25, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
We need to finish Fritz first, needs more translation and good refs. PumpkinSky talk 22:31, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
(ec) do you like this? memories, stub en, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:33, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
I don't know about the "first", - a general explanation of alpine routes might help all of them. Still looking for de:Trittsicherheit in English, that's how I came across the others, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:35, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
I want Fritz finished first because we started it first. Then we can do alpine routes. I've having lots of trouble finding good sources and we need to finish translating it. No problem making a triple nom.PumpkinSky talk 22:40, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
this might be useful to find the English terms, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:50, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Alpinist magazine
Alpine Club en
ein weites Feld, suggest we nom the other other two and leave this one for later, I don't even know if Alpine Route in a strict sense applies to the two routes (or at least one) from Laufen Hut, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:59, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Laufen HutEdit

Hi PS, I've had a look at Laufen Hut. Looks pretty good, but I've made a few suggested changes for you to consider. Hope that helps. --Bermicourt (talk) 07:30, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Looks good! PumpkinSky talk 10:37, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Dorothy Baker (madam)Edit

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:02, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

hooky, indeed ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:11, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
added to Baker (surname) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:24, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Danke und Danke.PumpkinSky talk 10:01, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
history and stats for Big Dorothy (Awesome Dorothy?) on 14 July, Allons enfants, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:25, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Sex sells !!!! PumpkinSky talk 09:51, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Good, but make it a scandal or prostitute hook and even better!PumpkinSky talk 10:03, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK for PhantosmiaEdit

HI! Thankx for the review for the Phantosmia page expanded on July 4th, 2012 I did the required edition on the 11th july. Hope it's ready now :)! Can you kindly review again? Thankx alot! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoono92 (talkcontribs) 17:44, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

There are multiple ones still there. I see you are new. Compare how the URLs (web links) in your article look compared to the ones in Dorothy Baker (madam). If you don't figure it out, let me know.PumpkinSky talk 18:09, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh I totally missed those! My Apologies. The link was good help! Just corrected the remaining ones. Thankx for the patience! You're awesome! :) Zoono92 (talk) 05:25, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but they're still there. I have to leave soon, so someone will have to show you. Or I might be able to later today.PumpkinSky talk 09:50, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh okh... so I probably do need help, I sort of don't get which ones. It would be awesome if you could help! But I've asked the same question from someone who welcomed me to Wikipedia :) hope they answer. Otherwise I'll be coming to you again? :) Thankx again! Zoono92 (talk) 14:28, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

See the two or three edits I'm about to make. See if that helps. PumpkinSky talk 20:26, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

hmm.. I think i get it now (although I would still have to ask you to check it kindly). followed your steps and also followed Gerda Arendt instructions. Must say I learned ALOT today. really. anyhow, please let me know if anything else needs fixed! p.s. Thankx for the patience :) Zoono92 (talk) 22:34, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

No problem. Will look over. Another lesson--A LOT is TWO words ;-0 ;-) One last thing. Check edits I just made. Punct goes before refs. Fix the rest and I'll approve. PumpkinSky talk 23:22, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I have made changes to the punctuation before refs, I would really appreciate it, if you could verify that it has been done correctly. Thanks for all your help once again. ProBonoPublicoA90 (talk)

see edits I just made, it's punctuation,start ref, without space btwen the punct and < of the ref. You had several missing periods too. You guys are off to a good start but need to pay attention to detail. I'll approve now. PumpkinSky talk 00:24, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK for 1935 Helena earthquakeEdit

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:03, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Upper WolfsnareEdit

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:04, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Vladimír Vondráček, Antonín HeverochEdit

Hi PumpkinSky. I took care of the referencing issue for this double nom. Thanks! --Rosiestep (talk) 03:06, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Alpine routeEdit

I saw your new DYK with 3 articles by 3 editors and found it interesting. So I reviewed it and expressed my approval, except that I had to use a purple check because of the foreign language sources. I noted all three editors were very experienced so I could accept those sources in good faith. I assume that will not result in any problem. I certainly hope it doesn't. In any event, I wanted to let you know that the Alpine route article contains an expression in brackets: "[cairn is the right word]." I assume that was meant for editing purposes. Although it does not appear completely out of line, I thought you might want to delete that phrase. If I were 100% sure, I would have done it myself but I was only about 98% sure it might be something you want to delete. I did not mention it in the DYK review. Donner60 (talk) 06:23, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing! I just woke up to this nice surprise, please look at the nomination for alternatives and keep it watched, a asked a friend if a crop of the pic was possible. It's a featured picture, but looks less stunning and a bit dark in small size. You are right about the editing line, I will remove it. If you compare Cairn to the German equivalent you will see that they overlap but are not the same. This is also true for Alpine route, and before we had the same for Easter egg tree. It's not decided yet if some day we will have Alpine route and Alpine ROUTE ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:52, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks to both and glad you found it interesting.PumpkinSky talk 08:55, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Triple DYK: I like alt 2 and the alternate, cropped image better. I have left a further review/comment. Donner60 (talk) 20:16, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 16 July 2012Edit

Newyorkbrad and respectEdit

Statements like this: statement are why User:Newyorkbrad is so well respected. PumpkinSky talk 23:11, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

yes, that's why he was called an awesome Wikipedian again on 19 April 2012, after 20 September 2007 (!) and 13 October 2008, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that's a heck of a vote of confidence. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:06, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Generally I think well of him, he could be more supportive of Br'er Rabbit's return and the removal of restrictions, and I don't like the way he (an arb not up for re-election) was pushed to the front to cast the deciding vote to decline the first go round on the civility enforcement case, whatever it was called, last November. That being said, I may support him if he runs again, which I probably won't do for anyone else of those arbs whose terms expire at the end of the year.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:02, 19 July 2012 (UTC)


I just issued a "Harrassment Warning" to Basement12 for his constant posts to your talk page. If they continue, please let me know and I will take him to ANI. He should have gotten the message when you asked the first 4 or 5 times, which is why I am not giving him the benefit of the doubt. - NeutralhomerTalk • 03:12, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

watching as well. Chedzilla (talk) 07:26, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. It seems to have died down now though.PumpkinSky talk 10:58, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK of rape in PakistanEdit

Hi, it seems that I was not clear when I mentioned that I have reviewed the DYK, I had accepted the ALT1, can you please change it in the prep area ? The ALT1 is that according to lawyer Asma Jahangir, up to seventy-two percent of women in police custody in Pakistan are physically or sexually abused? --sarvajna (talk) 06:21, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Never mind I have made the changes, hope its not a problem. Thanks --sarvajna (talk) 06:23, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
(stalker) Questions related to a DYK nomination should typically be asked in the nomination, where nominator, reviewer and the people interested in nominations can see them and comment, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:24, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
No biggie. All's well on this.PumpkinSky talk 10:59, 20 July 2012 (UTC)


No worries, thanks for the heads up. I'll move the set over to 3. Miyagawa (talk) 18:13, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Inuse templateEdit

I think you forgot your InUse template. So now I need a way to remember to add a comma after "2012" according to WP:COPYEDIT#Parenthetical comma. Art LaPella (talk) 00:28, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Oops, fixed. Sorry.PumpkinSky talk 00:32, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Nominations and lists of CPsEdit

Not sure what you want. Do you mean you want addresses for the CPs? Those are extremely unlikely to be online unless you can find the nomination. Don't expect quick responses to questions for the next few days — I'm at a conference until Monday and only occasionally will have Internet access. Nyttend (talk) 01:05, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

nr_reference is the email address where you can request a nomination or nominations. Also, see here on Lewis And Clark County. Nyttend (talk) 03:22, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

EthicalWiki, DYK one minute AfD the nextEdit

Just an FYI... the discussion moved to WP:Articles for deletion/EthicalWiki#EthicalWiki Cheers! Woz2 (talk) 22:01, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK helpEdit

Hey P'sky, I'm wondering if Ruth Ann Steinhagen might be eligible for a DYK, I've never done one before and thought I'd ask the expert! I'm thinking a hook might be along the lines of it being one of the first stalker crimes that led to a book and movie, The Natural...whatever you think might work - if it's good for DYK! Suggestion box is open! Thanks! Dreadstar 21:52, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

No problem, I just reviewed a DYK nomination, so I'll get right on this. I already saw MRG helped too so I'll give her credit too.PumpkinSky talk 22:36, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Cool! Thanks, I really appreciate it! And, oh, yeah, MRG did awesome work on Steinhagen! Dreadstar 22:43, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Template:Did you know nominations/Ruth Ann Steinhagen done.PumpkinSky talk 23:07, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Brilliant! Thank you!! Nice hook! Dreadstar 23:23, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Should "The Natural" link to the The Natural (film) or is it ok leading from the book The Natural to the film...? Dreadstar 23:26, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
I'd leave as is since it'd be really awkward IMHO to try to link to both.PumpkinSky talk 23:28, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Yup, that would be kinda awkward; perfect as is! Much more...ah...natural.. :) Dreadstar 00:52, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
LOL! This one lends itself to puns, doesn't it? I muffed up the citation names and couldn't resist setting the record straight. :/ I tried. But, alas, I'm only human. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:53, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

It's the lawEdit

link. Chedzilla (talk) 10:10, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK promotionsEdit

I have to say I'm more than a bit disappointed in your judgment in promoting this DYK hook. Please see Talk:Rape in Pakistan#Unreliable source tagged for some late comments. Fut.Perf. 11:23, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up, I'll let User:Ratnakar.kulkarni (sarvajna) know about this too. PumpkinSky talk 21:15, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the notice and apologies for the delay, I just checked the article and its talk page, I would like to disagree with Fut.Perf.. Jan goodwin is an excellent journalist, she is renowned for her work. I do not see why her work cannot be considered as reliable, she attributed the figure of 72% to Asma Jahangir who is also a very famous lawyer and a human rights activist. Asma and the organisations she is associated with are known for their work in the field of sexual abuse among other things. Please let me know why is it wrong to consider a book written by an award winning journalist as a reliable source. Thanks --sarvajna (talk) 05:40, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Well, here's the issue: journalists who write books are very often problematic sources, because such books are typically opinion pieces whose writing is subjected neither to the methodological strictures of genuine academic writing, nor to the demands of factuality and fact-checking imposed by serious journalistic publications. The problem remains exactly as I stated: a mere attribution to a name ("according to XYZ") simply isn't an attribution. It just doesn't count, ever. No matter how big a name XYZ is. An attribution always has to be to an actual publication. And whoever doesn't practice this basic demand of academic correctness just doesn't qualify as a source.
In the present case, I actually did the other editors' homework for them and was able to dig out the original source by Jahangir herself. Now, it turns out that source indeed exists and indeed fulfills our criteria, so we can source it from there. But that doesn't change the fact that the previous sourcing was substandard. It also turns out the previous summary was inexact (it's not a statement about the present and not one about the whole country, but a statement about a particular regional sample in a study made a quarter of a century ago). Fut.Perf. 07:34, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
@FPaS - I admire your search for quality, but let's remember our core principles of WP:RS and WP:V. I also applaud you're research and efforts in improving the article - most commendable. In fact I'd even say that were this a WP:FAC review, it would be great attention to detail. My point however is this: A person made a "claim" - it was "published" - so it satisfies the Verifiability, and not truth... factor of WP:V published in a WP:RS. To chastise an editor with I'm more than a bit disappointed in your judgment is wholly unacceptable; especially from an admin. If you have an issue with a particular "journalist" or "publisher", then perhaps WP:RS/N would be the place to post. Please rethink your approach on matters such as this. Collaboration not confrontation please. Chedzilla (talk) 09:00, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Well, you're wrong. If an unreliable source A claims that another person B claimed that XYZ is true, then we have not satisfied WP:V criteria in writing that "according to B, XYZ is true". I just demonstrated why in this case A was an unreliable source. Now that we actually found B, we're in the green; previously we were not. What is in fact "wholly unacceptable" is sloppy second-hand sourcing (and sloppy paraphrasing) of the type we saw here, and it's doubly unacceptable with a content issue as serious and potentially contentious as this one, no matter if it's at FAC or "only" at a lowly DYK. PumkinSky is responsible for having made the whole world read, on the frontpage of one of the most visible sites on the whole web, that an entire security force of an entire country is full of criminal rapists. For putting that on the frontpage, he'd better be damned sure about what he's doing. I say he was lucky the reference did check out in the end – what if it hadn't? Fut.Perf. 11:08, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
fine. whatever. Chedzilla (talk) 11:16, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
I've been over this piece for the last hour. I agree that directly attributing is best, but that this did work out is a credit to Goodwin. It seem to me that the criticism would be most aptly directed at the primary author, which would be Darkness Shines.diff This was approved by sarvajna, not PumkinSky, for what it's worth.
We should of course tread carefully on such topics. That this all occurred is primarily due to the fast route to the main page that DYK offers. Br'er Rabbit (talk) 11:25, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
well if someone is to be blamed for the approval of the DYK then its me not PumkinSky, may be I did not make it clear in my first comment, I had very well checked for the sources of the claim of 72% figure before approving, I had found few sources including a google book.You said Now that we actually found B, we're in the green; previously we were not but let me tell you we were in green, I knew the sources did exist. I have already explained my rationale behind not questioning the editor about the source as I thought that the source was enough reliable.--sarvajna (talk) 11:54, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
If you had checked the real source before, why did you not replace the poor source in the article with it? And if you had checked what Jahangir really said, why did you not correct the misleading summary? Fut.Perf. 12:14, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

───────────────────────── this is one of the source(page 134) I had found, it does not cite Jahangir but the figure can be verified, as I said earlier, I thought that jan goodwin is very much a reliable source so I did not change anything. --sarvajna (talk) 13:40, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 23 July 2012Edit

Inspired by PumpkinSkyEdit

Only took me seven months, but this was inspired by you![6] The Interior (Talk) 06:36, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Great, article and heading ;) (look for "inspired" on my user page) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:40, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Neat article. Glad you liked working it and thanks for letting me know. PumpkinSky talk 10:56, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nominationEdit

  Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Ruth Ann Steinhagen at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; see step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 08:23, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

OOPS. Thanks, How'd I forget that? PumpkinSky talk 10:54, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Marlena WeshEdit

Done. Good job. :) Moved to August 5, the day she should be competing. If you see any unreviewed Olympic hooks, just give me a poke and will try to review. --LauraHale (talk) 21:22, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Looks like a sprint: created and approved same day! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:42, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Image protectionEdit

  • Could you protect
  1. File:Angola v Croatia crop Antonija Misura.jpg
  2. File:Wallowa County Courthouse, Oregon, 2010.jpg
  3. File:JMWTurner Sunrise with Sea Monsters.jpg
on Commons? They'll feature on the main page soon and the bot there has flaws. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:27, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
No problem. Done. PumpkinSky talk 15:45, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank youEdit

Just wanted to thank you for taking a look at the Ryan article, much appreciated. -- The Writer 2.0 Talk 17:56, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. PumpkinSky talk 18:48, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


GingerMomma Hi PumpkinSky. You asked if Women's Image Network had done anything external? I found an ABC United States National television broadcast of a TV special they produced about women in comedy called [Fifty Years of Funny Females] Here is that link

Hello, PumpkinSky. You have new messages at Bagumba's talk page.
Message added 23:07, 21 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Bagumba (talk) 23:07, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Ottla KafkaEdit

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:02, 24 August 2012 (UTC)


PumpkinSky, I was recently playing around with Wikipedia scripts and found some that I thought you might like. I'd really recommend:

  • importScript('User:Equazcion/ActiveWatchers.js'); //shows a count of the number of watchers who are actively editing
  • importScript('User:Ucucha/duplinks.js'); //adds link in toolbar to check for duplicate wikilinks (already have that one)
  • importScript('User:Dr_pda/prosesize.js'); //adds a link to toolbar to count words on page
  • importScript('Wikipedia:AutoEd/complete.js'); //AutoEd (too agressive on white space)
  • importScriptURI('//'); //crosses-out sigs of blocked/banned editors (nope)
  • importScript('User:Ohconfucius/script/formatgeneral.js'); //general formatting

and WP:Reflinks. • Jesse V.(talk) 01:26, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I have no interest in the one about the banned sigs, but I'll check out the others. PumpkinSky talk 02:24, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

You might also want to look at User:Kephir/gadgets/rater, which really speeds up assessing articles. • Jesse V.(talk) 14:41, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Is there a way for that to rate an article that doesn't have a talk page? Ryan Vesey 14:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Just make any edit to the talk page, and every article can have at least one project tag, just leave the ratings blank at first. PumpkinSky talk 14:52, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Actually, Kephir just fixed it. Ryan Vesey 15:34, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

An invitation for you!Edit

Hello, PumpkinSky. We are in the early stages of initiating a project to plan, gain consensus on, and coordinate adding a feature to the main page wherein an article will be listed daily for collaborative improvement. If you're interested in participating, please add your name to the list of members.

 Happy editing! AutomaticStrikeout 20:40, 25 August 2012 (UTC)


Hello, PumpkinSky. You have new messages at Drmies's talk page.
Message added 14:52, 26 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Drmies (talk) 14:52, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

  • I liked the older picture you had up there--grainy and gritty, and supposedly taken just after his release. I think it focuses more on the "having been captive" (and not on any single individual), where this official portrait focuses on one particular decorated man years after. Drmies (talk) 17:47, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
That crossed my mind too. The article is not big enough for both pics, we could swap them out again. PumpkinSky talk 17:57, 27 August 2012 (UTC)


LOL . edit conflicting. I'm gonna go make dinner and do a few things - will be back a little later. sorry about that chief. :-) — Ched :  ?  22:21, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

ARRRGGGGHHHHH ... lol - go ahead.— Ched :  ?  02:22, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
HEHE. I was fixing those refs you goofed up you old fart! PumpkinSky talk 02:24, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
<talking like Gabby Hayes> I was workin on it daggummit. :P. Dang young whipper-snappers and yer new fangeled 4-wheeled horseless carriages - dag-nabit. Always rush, rush, rush.
Anyways .. I'm about done for the night - but will check back tomorrow and see if I can find anything else on the topic. Do you think we should mention any of the current officers or anything like that? I'm not seeing a whole lot out there beyond the primary source. Could put the "4 annual publications" and "$10 dues" I suppose from if you'd like. Let me know what else I can help with. — Ched :  ?  02:43, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
I wouldn't put the officers or dues. Yea, not a lot out there.PumpkinSky talk 09:52, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

New Prep 2Edit

PumpkinSky, the Prep 2 you just put together, assuming that Prep 4 and Prep 1 are duly filled in before it, is the first set for the Paralympics, running at 09:00 London time on the 29th. As such, it ought to have two Paralympics hooks, and the set as currently constituted has none. Did you want to adjust it accordingly, moving two to one of the open sets, or would you rather have me do it? Please let me know as soon as you can; I can hold off for two hours, I think, but no more. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:38, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

It looks like Orlady moved Prep 2 bodily up to Prep 4, so it's all solved. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:05, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Oh, thought we had more tie before paraolympics. Thanks for asking.PumpkinSky talk 09:51, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Some falafel for you!Edit

  Never pressed the "wikilove" button before, but figured I should give it a shot. I thought you might be interested in the most exotic food product available on the list of food and drink, so here you go. On that related note, I actually haven't tried falafel before. I think I should give it a go in the near future. =| Kurtis (talk) 17:46, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Yum, but what did I do to earn wiki love? PumpkinSky talk 17:57, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I don't know, I'm just a Wikiloving guy I guess.
Well, OK — thank you for your contributions to DYK. They are helpful. Now go enjoy your falafel. =) Kurtis (talk) 18:24, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
By the way, just in case you weren't aware, I am the new Master&Expert — the one who hath not an ampersand. Kurtis (talk) 18:26, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Remember, we shared Baklava before, matching Falafel - a good celebration for our precious  latest GA, Franz Kafka, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:24, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Congrats on the GA you and Gerda. Feel free to help proof/source Poseidon (short story), My Neighbor (short story) or Advocates (short story).♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:39, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


I've pretty much done all that I know to do with this. Let me know where you move it to. Thanks for letting me edit in your sandbox BTW. Of course I knew if I started editing it that YOU would jump in too. You are SOOOO easy .. lol. — ChedZILLA 19:11, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

move it to "International Scouting Collectors Association". SInce it's a rebuild of a copyvio deletion, it's DYK eligible, but the lack of secondary source may or may not be an issue. PumpkinSky talk 02:18, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
  Done .. I didn't do anything as far as a DYK though. Glad that we (you, and Drmies mostly) didn't let this one get away. Always nice to save an article that deserves to be here. TY for all you do again. — ChedZILLA 04:00, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 August 2012Edit

Template:Did you know nominations/Symphony (video game)Edit

Hello PumpkinSky. I came across this nomination because of the reviewer, also responsible for Template:Did you know nominations/Edmund Marriage. I made copyedits to the article (too many reviewers "forget" to do that) and found a significant number of problems. I would like to ask you to scrutinize the article again, since I may not have found all of them. Thank you very much. (talk) 01:21, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Symphony (video game) has already been DYK. What specific problems in it are you talking about? PumpkinSky talk 02:01, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
Oh. Well. Never mind then... Names were misspelled, for instance, and there was a general lack of good writing. Thank you, (talk) 02:03, 30 August 2012 (UTC)


over at my other talk page it's mentioned that Ebru Umar and Metro (Dutch newspaper) could be a double DYK:

But I've never done a "double hook" DYK .. ok, actually I've only done maybe a half-dozen DYK things TOTAL - and that was years ago. I'd like to 'git er done' for the 207 and 66 IP editor(s) - so any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. — Ched :  ?  18:57, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

I can give you a suggestion for nothing: if you (or anyone) let "inflammatory" onto the mainpage on a BLP with no source and not mentioned in either article, you can expect a dozen dead-buffaloes-worth of vultures to swoop. – iridescent 19:26, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Good point .. "controversial" perhaps? I'll have to break out the Google Translate I guess here, but will try to fix.
started this, but not sure where to go from there yet. — Ched :  ?  19:46, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
No problem Ched. I'll work on this later this evening. PumpkinSky talk 19:57, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I lose track of who's speaking to whom after the Great War of 2010, but Drmies and Ucucha are both fluent Dutch speakers. – iridescent 20:01, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you both very much .. It looks like Drmies is taking a bit of a break, but I'll check with the IP addresses, and if need be drop Ucucha a note. Great War of 2010? I'm guessing there was some great debate on WP:INDENT? — Ched :  ?  20:17, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
As Drmies also said on his talk page, I'm not seeing anything specific that needs Dutch-language input. Iridescent, I'm not sure what you mean by the Great War of 2010 (in any case, that is ancient history now), but just for the record—there's no one on Wikipedia I'm deliberately not speaking to, and I'm not aware of anyone not speaking to me. Ucucha (talk) 07:01, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
  • If it's the one I'm thinking of, you may know it as the "Halloween fiasco" and one of few times when a TFA was recalled while on the main page. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:33, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Definitely avoid "inflammatory" in a BLP. PumpkinSky talk 21:19, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Done. See...Template:Did you know nominations/Ebru Umar, Metro (Dutch newspaper), Talk:Ebru_Umar#Issues, User_talk:Drmies#Dutch_language, and User_talk:Ucucha#Dutch_language PumpkinSky talk 22:07, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!Edit

IPs can't make Wiki love--well, you know. I see you've been talking about me, and I appreciate what you all did. "Inflammatory" is probably a bit of a composite (it's certainly true, but not verified verbally, if you will). Then again, "goat fucker" inflamed a lot of people, as one of the sources indicated. Anyway, thank you so much for your help. (talk) 22:32, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

WOOF WOOF! No problem. Maybe cats and dogs can make friends and set an example for wiki. Where have I been talking about you? Puppy of Dog The Teddy BearWOOF 22:42, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Puppy, learn to read, above, link to your friend Ched ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:49, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Puppies can't read and PSKY thought he meant elsewhere.PumpkinSky talk 22:51, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Puppy can woof, puppy can sniff the link to Ched (elsewhere) where we talked about translations ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:02, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Puppy can go pee on your user page too ;-) Puppy of Dog The Teddy BearWOOF 23:08, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
I am confused. Can someone translate this in Dutch? (talk) 23:07, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


  • IP-adressen kunnen niet Wiki liefde - nou ja, je weet wel. Ik zie dat je het over mij, en ik waardeer wat je allemaal deed. "Inflammatoire" is waarschijnlijk een beetje van een samengestelde (het is zeker waar, maar niet verbaal geverifieerd, zo u wilt). Dan weer, "geit neuker" ontstoken veel mensen, als een van de bronnen aangegeven. Hoe dan ook, heel erg bedankt voor uw hulp. (overleg) 22:32, 31 augustus 2012 (UTC)

Woof Woof! Geen probleem. Misschien honden en katten kunnen vrienden maken en een voorbeeld voor de wiki. Waar heb ik het over jou? - Puppy van Dog The Teddy Bear • WOOF • 22:42, 31 augustus 2012 (UTC) Puppy, leren hierboven te lezen,, link naar uw vriend Ched;) - Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:49, 31 augustus 2012 (UTC) Puppies kunnen niet lezen en PSKY dacht dat hij bedoelde elsewhere.PumpkinSky praten 22:51, 31 augustus 2012 (UTC) Pup kan inslag, kan puppy snuiven op de link om Ched (elders), waar hadden we het over vertalingen;) - Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:02, 31 augustus 2012 (UTC) Puppy kan gaan plassen op uw gebruikerspagina te;-) - Puppy van Dog The Teddy Bear • WOOF • 23:08, 31 augustus 2012 (UTC) Ik ben verward. Kan iemand dit vertalen in het Nederlands? (overleg) 23:07, 31 augustus 2012 (UTC)

Monster clueless - use <shurgs> .. <shrugs his shoulders> — ChedZILLA 23:13, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Haha, that's not bad at all! (talk) 23:53, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
(ec - you are much faster, and find things) Ask Drmies, see above. - After PumpkinSky and I seeeriously dealt with Kafka for a month we need a little nonsense ;) - What do think about signing on with a name? My memory for numbers is horrible, but I knew I saw 66 before, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:15, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Did someone say Number 66? pssst. Don't tell Diannaa, she sees numbers upside down @ 66 - it's an inside joke about NHL players. Canada and USA thing. — ChedZILLA 00:06, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK for The Zürau AphorismsEdit

Yngvadottir (talk) 00:03, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Image protectionEdit

Hi Pumpkin, another batch. As you know, I don't trust the bot.

Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:19, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Doing now, the bot sucks. PumpkinSky talk 02:25, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Derivative FX has been sucking pretty bad too. Thanks — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:37, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Please Sir, I want some more:
File:Trogloraptor marchingtoni, female tarsus of leg IV.jpg
File:View across Independence Pass from north.jpg
File:Chris Bond of Australia crop.jpg
File:Island Escape at the Port of Gibraltar (cropped).jpg
Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:54, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Have you seen the threads, now in archives, on WT:DYK about this and the bot/ PumpkinSky talk 11:11, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
  • A couple, but they basically say "it should come through". When it doesn't... Alright, I guess I could upload copies locally (but my bandwidth is a problem for that) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:09, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Totally agree with you, I don't trust the bot either. I don't mind one bit protecting them. Just let me know when needed. I do some on my own too. PumpkinSky talk 12:13, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Alright, cheers! Let me know if you have an FAC coming up (well, aside from Kafka... I'll save comments for the review) so I can help copyedit. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:16, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

It's doneEdit

The CCI case is now complete. That can finally be moved on from. Now if it were only that easy to gather together a group of editors for all the other ones. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 04:35, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Great news and great work, thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:14, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
WOW. I am speechless. Huge thank you Wiz! I never thought it'd be done and it was way faster than I expected. PumpkinSky talk 11:09, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

an old editEdit

I am writing to you because I found this block log.  Are you still ok with your edit comment that says "sock farm"?  The context for this question is Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/, which is a discussion about another RoadRunner DHCP dynamic IP address.  Unscintillating (talk) 22:17, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

That was almost 4 years ago and I don't recall it at all. Nor do I have admin tools to investigate it. So I have to defer to current admins. PumpkinSky talk 22:19, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK Prep 1 heads upEdit

I think you promoted Did_you_know#Watermarked_Photo. Don't know the proper procedure, but thought you should be aware. Maile66 (talk) 18:11, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

See response at WT:DYK. PumpkinSky talk 18:40, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Did you know nominations/Domestic violence in PakistanEdit

I removed two lines and the junk ref, the hook was not even sourced to that, why have you rejected the nom? Facts, not fiction (talk) 19:20, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

It's also been getting bounced around for about 6 weeks without much hope of being resolved. Is there any real hope you and some reviewer (not me) will knuckle down and settle this one expeditiously? PumpkinSky talk 19:23, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
See comment in WT:DYK topic on the article. It seemed to me that with Orlady's intervention, this was on the brink of being settled again. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:30, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
I thought it had been settled after Orlady intervened, it was just KW causing grief for whatever reason, that is all done now. Facts, not fiction (talk) 19:33, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
I'll put it back but please get this settled quickly. It's gone on far too long. PumpkinSky talk 19:35, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Orlady says it is good to go :o) Facts, not fiction (talk) 20:41, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 03 September 2012Edit

WP:Featured article review/Operation Downfall/archive2Edit

Too harsh? I'm pretty sure that's my position. - Dank (push to talk) 16:28, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Responding there. PumpkinSky talk 16:30, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK awards?Edit

Hey PSKY, I have 25 DYKs credited if you count the ones people tagged me in for "substantial contribution" as well as create/expand. Does that make me eligible for a little pretty medal? (Will be 26 when WR Brown runs) Can't find the page for requests to be made, however... Montanabw(talk) 20:43, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Do you keep a list of them somehow/where? I keep mine at User:PumpkinSky/Articles#DYK. They count whether or not you nom'd them. DYK has two tracks: the "major contributor" one and the "DYKs you nomed on behalf of another editor that you weren't a major contributor to", as in User:PumpkinSky/Articles#DYK_nominations_for_other_users. The DYK page for this is Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by number of DYKs. If you want, point me to your DYK list and I'll take care of it. PumpkinSky talk 20:52, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
It's at User:Montanabw/DYK, if someone put the DYK tag on my page, I added it here. Thanks. Montanabw(talk) 22:01, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
Awarded! As you get more, it's ok to update the number of DYKs in the list and move yourself up the list. I did that yesterday myself. PumpkinSky talk 22:11, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Paralympics hooksEdit

PumpkinSky, I'm guessing you didn't see my post to WT:DYK asking for certain hooks to be given consideration for Prep 4. Any chance you can at least promote Jake Lappin, which I cannot do because I approved it? One of the ones you just put into that set could be moved down to Prep 1. I'd appreciate it.

Unfortunately, there's nothing that can be done for Cody Meakin at the moments, but getting Jake up there would be splendid. I've been looking at that hook for days, and wishing I could do something, but I'm stuck. Thanks for your consideration. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:31, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't see that thread. Sure. I'll swap them around. PumpkinSky talk 02:41, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you so much! I was promoting so many Paralympic hooks there that I was beginning to think I was a jinx for any that I had to send back for further work and then approved... at one point the first four in the section were all approved by me, and I couldn't touch them. Glad all four are promoted now; Jake was the last one. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:12, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Alcatraz GangEdit

PanydThe muffin is not subtle 16:02, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

  • Nice count, Pumpkin! Drmies (talk) 01:55, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, but it was your idea and you started the article. PumpkinSky talk 02:01, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Good content, Pumpkin! Some translated, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:06, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 September 2012Edit

Quirky Greek stuffEdit

Not a letter of the alphabet this time, but would you think Lekythion is quirky enough for a nice little DYK? Fut.Perf. 12:14, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Definitely DYK material! As for the quirky DYK slot (the last hook in any DYK set), perhaps something with the oil flask. Very interesting article! PumpkinSky talk 13:20, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
I think this would make a good lead with photo as we don't get a lot of high quality pics of Greek pottery and a good quirky slot. PumpkinSky talk 15:43, 13 September 2012 (UTC)


  Appy Pony!
Congratulations! You have received a pony! Ponies are cute, intelligent, friendly (most of the time, though with notable exceptions), promote good will, encourage patience, and enjoy carrots. Treat your pony with respect and he will be your faithful friend! Montanabw(talk) 19:01, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
WOW NEAT! I love Appy Ponies! (notes photo is a Shetland, but pattern is good, so who cares;-) ) Thanks!PumpkinSky talk 19:07, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
(Note that uploader is unaware that purebred shetland ponies actually don't come in leopard complex, but indeed, who cares?) Montanabw(talk) 23:54, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK Prep area 3Edit

I'm refraining from moving my own hook, but wouldn't the hook on Jupiter (roller coaster) be better in the final slot as the "quirky hook"? It would also split up a run of three hooks which are about various constructions and buildings. Best, IronGargoyle (talk) 23:01, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi. We must have a different sense of humor. I honestly don't think the roller coaster one is quirky at all. But I will shuffle the building ones around. PumpkinSky talk 23:04, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK for William Robinson BrownEdit

PanydThe muffin is not subtle 16:02, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Harry S. Truman PREdit

As Franz Kafka is still open, you should temporarily withdraw Harry from WP:PR, as the rules limit editors to one open review. Sorry. Brianboulton (talk) 23:24, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

OH. Wehwalt and I were working on that one. I'll withdraw it. PumpkinSky talk 23:32, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

stop itEdit

There's no need for you to be asking anyone to do adminy stuff. Go get your bits back. Yes .. I know there was a bunch of talk on AN or ANI back then. But the bottom line is you were NOT involved in a case. You were NOT even part of a RFC/U. You turned everything in because of ONE freakin article .. that is NOT "under a cloud" (or whatever they call it these days). Stop letting people rewrite history - march your ass over to BN and get your bits back. I'm sure there's at least one crat that is familiar with the whole thing and has a lick of common sense. Geesh dude - stop being such a drama whore .. go pick up your bits. — Ched :  ?  05:42, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 16Edit

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DYK for Ebru UmarEdit

The DYK project (nominate) 16:04, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Metro (Dutch newspaper)Edit

The DYK project (nominate) 16:05, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

  • Very cool. Thanks again for helping out those IP folks buddy. :) — ChedZILLA 18:08, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Folding@home is a FA candidateEdit

I've always been impressed and fascinated by your efforts with Yogo sapphire. Now its my turn for my work to be scrutinized, because I have nominated Folding@home for Featured Article status because I believe it meets the criteria. Just wanted to let you know that. :D • Jesse V.(talk) 01:23, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

OK. On FACs I focus more on techy stuff. I leave the prose to others who are better at that than me. ;-) We'll be putting up Franz Kafka] and Harry S. Truman soon.PumpkinSky talk 01:37, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
I wish you the best of luck with that! I'm sorry to see that despite your best efforts that the Truman article didn't stay at FA-class. I guess I had assumed that all the articles on US presidents were solid FAs! • Jesse V.(talk) 01:41, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
I think it was FAR'd during my 9month or so absence. PumpkinSky talk 01:44, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
I guess, though you've got your old name all over the first half of the FAR page, so that must be it. • Jesse V.(talk) 01:51, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
OH YEA. Forgot I participated. Oh well. HEHEPumpkinSky talk 01:55, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
  Facepalm :D • Jesse V.(talk) 02:10, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
  • It's awesome that you've improved this article. I used to run folding@home on my laptop, but I'm having some computer troubles so I didn't download it after I did a system restore. Ryan Vesey 02:16, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you! Admittedly, it was challenging to research and write about, but with a lot of feedback and help from many different people it's been getting there. Whenever you get your computer up and running properly by all means check out F@h again. The V7 client makes installation, control, and configuration significantly easier than any of its predecessors. • Jesse V.(talk) 02:43, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

PumpkinSky, to clarify, Yogo sapphire was the first time I'd seen a FA be developed. I started watching at GA status, but I thought it was neat how you, Montanabw, Nikkimaria, Vsmith, and other editors were collaborating back and forth. That was the fascinating part. You all wanted to push the article forward, but you needed help from each other to do it. There was lengthy discussions and voting on pictures, and everyone talked back and forth. The collaboration turned out really well. • Jesse V.(talk) 04:37, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it was indeed a team effort. Thank you. PumpkinSky talk 09:52, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

After an extensive discussion, I'm please to announce that Emw gave his support for promotion to FA status (diff). You asked me to alert you when this happened, so here it is. Feel free to read it over again and weigh in as you like. :D • Jesse V.(talk) 18:10, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Supported now. This is what I was waiting for. Glad it finally worked out.PumpkinSky talk 18:48, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm very relieved. It was approaching the end of the WP:FAC page and I was getting worried about gaining a consensus before the FA director archived it or something. But now I'm happy. :) Now I just need to figure how how to resolve Hekerui's remaining comments... • Jesse V.(talk) 18:59, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK help?Edit

I know it is not Montana, but a brand-new editor created a new article four days ago Brow Monument and Brow Monument Trail, with a potential DYK hook (DYK that Brow Monument still has a survey marker placed by John Wesley Powell in 1872, or something like that.

I have a full day of work tomorrow, so have to be low profile on WP tomorrow, and the DYK deadline is tomorrow. My guess is that the editor doesn't know about DYK, so could use some hand-holding.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 01:37, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

No problem. Will nom and show them the way. PumpkinSky talk 01:44, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
Will discuss on his talk page. Watch there if interested. PumpkinSky talk 02:03, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


Hi. i'm the very bewildered guy who wrote the brow monument article. gee, things sure do zip along fast here.. at any rate, information re reliable sources. is this for the article itself? if yes, the signs were the source. and the fact that my wife and i walked the trail i was going to just let them stand on their own but it was suggested i re write them in my own words. the signs were, it appears, taken from the nomination form. i'm off to dinner right now but will be back in an hour. bpolk Abearfellow (talk) 02:35, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

They can be fast or glacial here. It just depends. Unless you put something in quotes, you have to reword it or you'll called for copyviolations, plagiarism, etc. Always use a RS too. Do you have access to the NRHP nomination form? Those are a goldmine. PumpkinSky talk 02:40, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
I have all 23 pages of the form that the NRHP folks researched and just sent to me. i have the question out to commons, teahouse, and someone else (too many names, i can't keep track) as to what to do with them in terms of using them as citations or at least references for others to look at. i have not uploaded them, pending someone giving me an idea if they are needed or how they should be used. so far, everyone has seemed happy with the sources being the national forest service/department of interior signage that was placed along the trail. these are the photos that are at the bottom of the article in a gallery. if you click on them, you will find all of the information that I paraphrased in the article. and, importantly i think, there are literally (until i got the pdf's from the NRHP) no references anywhere other than the signage. the manager of the nat. forest service office at jacob lake was at a loss and she'd tried everywhere until my wife and i actually went out and found the trailhead (not easy) and made the walk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abearfellow (talkcontribs) 04:12, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
See Eagle's Store, ref 2, for what to do with a NRHP nom form when using as a ref. SInce you did not get this online, you won't need the URL parameter. Use this ref at the end of every paragraph that uses its info.PumpkinSky talk 09:53, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
hi. i'm not sure if it's appropriate or useful or whatever to let someone know the results of an effort (in this case - should i upload the pdfs associated with Brow) the main thought was no - that the NRHP nomination forms are generally done by private individuals and given to the government. whether that is true in this case, who knows. but, i am going to take your advice to use the Eagle Store example and cite them as a general reference that people can request from NRHP at the bottom of the article. thank you very much for your help bill polkAbearfellow (talk) 20:50, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
Upload a pdf? Why? to commons? I never do that and am not aware of anyone else doing so, but I guess it's possible. Just use them as refs as the rest of us do. Now if you mean the photos that are in the NRHP pdfs sometimes, yes those could be uploaded. As to their licensing, as at User talk:Nyttend, that's who I always ask about NRHP questions. Oh, have you learned how to "watch" an article or user page yet? PumpkinSky talk 21:53, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
hi. in answer to whether i've learned about "watching' an article or user page. yeah, i guess i know about it but I sometimes forget to do it so i have to brutally go back and chase things down. eventually i'll get the hang of it. probably right after i've finished this. I've looked at the Eagle's Store article and how the references were cited for the NRHP nomination. None of my article actually cited information from the "nomination" document but the Forest Service's information signs obviously did. If I list the Nomination pages as a "reference", it would essentially be a reference or more accurately the reference for the entire piece. What I would like to do is mention it as a source so someone can go to the NRHP and request the 23 page pdf file for their own usage. Since it's not an easily available public document - like going down to the local library, I would have to say something to the effect: "NRHP Nomination Papers - Available by contacting the NRHP at and requesting a copy of the Nomination Papers for Brow Monument NRHP number 87001159". Do you think that would be an acceptable approach? as always, thanks again for helping me limp along here (and i'll mark this to "watch" it. bill polkAbearfellow (talk) 23:47, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
If the Forest Service got info from the doc, you should be able to find it. Just do it as I suggested, people dont have to be able to find refs online. PumpkinSky talk 23:54, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
hello once again. after laboring through how to do a "reference" in my sandbox, i just updated the brow article with the nrhp nomination form. if you get a second sometime today, could you take a quick look to see if it is acceptable. thanks bill polkAbearfellow (talk) 18:49, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Did some fixing up. Now you go post at the DYK nom page: WT:DYK, find "Brow Monument and Brow Monument Trail" under Sep 13, click review or comment, then post that you've fixed the refs, set a watch on that Brow Monument and Brow Monument Trail nom page, then post at the reviewer's page, [User_talk:Allen3]] that you're ready for him to look at it again. PumpkinSky talk 20:26, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
thanks. i'll go do those things now. i hope. bill polkAbearfellow (talk) 20:29, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
me again. for the life of me, i could not find it at WT:DYK but i did leave a post at Allen3 that i (or more appropriately, we) made modifications to the references.Abearfellow (talk) 20:54, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
My fault, here: Template_talk:Did_you_know PumpkinSky talk 21:36, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 September 2012Edit

Question about Template:Did you know nominations/Gook (headgear)Edit


A question about the promotion of Template:Did you know nominations/Gook (headgear) has been raised at Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Sept 19 DYK on main page. As you are the person who performed the promotion of this nomination, your participation in the discussion would be appreciated. --Allen3 talk 02:13, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

your response is requiredEdit

Hi there, this edit of yours is being discussed on the DYK talk page. Schwede66 02:13, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Replied there.PumpkinSky talk 02:28, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

TFAR and stuffEdit

Thanks, that's much appreciated - I don't recall us disagreeing elsewhere on WP other than (temporarily and in good faith) at TFAR, as it happens... I suppose the side-effect of increasing slots and reducing reliance on points is that it means that more participation and debate is needed to help the scheduler(s) find where the consensus lies, but as long as it's done in good spirit there shouldn't be a problem. Regards and best wishes, BencherliteTalk 12:04, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

thanks and best to you. PumpkinSky talk 16:21, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Brow Monument and Brow Monument TrailEdit

  Hello! Your submission of Brow Monument and Brow Monument Trail at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Allen3 talk 14:12, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

FYI, on the template, there's been some communication from the author indicating, IMO, they might need a little help either with sourcing, or understanding that writing about what somebody personally told you is not a source. Good luck.Maile66 (talk) 00:23, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
hi pumpkinsky. while maile66 didn't specify which section of the article needed a source, you can probably guess, as i did, that it is the section on The Brow Monument Trail. as i wrote maile66, i can, with somewhat clear conscience, use the nomination form - but one additional piece is to use the National Forest Service map as well. Between those, I guess that the trail has reference information. Is this heading in the right direction? (and, i guess i'm a bit testy here because i don't see where i used anything anyone personally told me as a reference in the article sheesh. )bill polkAbearfellow (talk) 00:42, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Back over here: Template:Did you know nominations/Brow Monument and Brow Monument Trail ask her for more detail. Yes, you're progressing nicely. It does take time to learn wiki ins and outs. PumpkinSky talk 00:44, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
hi again. i went out and gave sources for the trail information. map and nomination. hope this is satisfactoryAbearfellow (talk) 04:09, 27 September 2012 (UTC)


Regarding this thread, I wasn't trying to get you in trouble. I saw you promote it, but just assumed you'd vetted it for potential problems. (Nobody complaining that "unvetted material has made it to the main page" has actually found any problem with this article - and they won't - but some people seem determined to create drama in everything.) Mogism (talk) 16:41, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks.PumpkinSky talk 19:05, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Icelandic Phallological MuseumEdit

What do you think of the idea of holding it over to Valentine's Day? I had a think about what dates would be most appropriate; April Fool's is a possibility but I didn't want to make a joke of the whole thing. I think there's a good enough case for running it on Valentine's. Considering the museum's clientele, it should be popular with the ladies at least. :-) Prioryman (talk) 22:09, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I certainly see how some would like that, I also think it'd draw the ire of feminists and various types of trolls. How about Feb 13? PumpkinSky talk 00:18, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Bah; noting like a bag full of dicks for V-Day. Br'er Rabbit (talk) 00:27, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
What's on Feb 13? Prioryman (talk) 06:40, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Nothing, but it wouldn't cause as much ire. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:49, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, how about we leave that choice to the TFA nomination page contributors? Give them a choice of both days and see which people prefer. That's the fairest way of doing it. Pumpkin, would you be okay with removing the current nomination and coming back to this in January? Prioryman (talk) 20:59, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
That occurred to me today too. There is a definite consensus for around Val Day, but not the specific day yet. I'll put it on the sked here: Wikipedia:QAI#TFAR_candidates and save the TFAR blurb here so we don't have to reinvent the wheel: Wikipedia:QAI/TFA.PumpkinSky talk 21:45, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Okay, good idea. Thanks. Prioryman (talk) 09:58, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK update failureEdit

DYKUpdateBot failed to make the update that was due almost 2 hours ago. I just did it manually. I checked and the picture file for the set is in the category indicating it has been cascade protected. However, does [this diff] indicate the bot has given up on the queue it should have placed on the Main page at 16:00, rather than that it found that was no longer a problem and moved on to the next Queue? Because if so, then please protect the pic of the Romanian chappie at Commons STAT. Sorry, I really really don't understand computers. Yngvadottir (talk) 17:46, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Done. I understand 'puters, but never bothered to learn the DYK protection bot because, frankly, I don't trust it. Neither does Crisco1492. PumpkinSky talk 17:51, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Many thanks. So that was why the bot failed? It overwrites previous warnings? Gawds. Thank you thank you thank you. Yngvadottir (talk) 17:56, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure why it failed, I just don't trust it. MaterialScientist might know more. PumpkinSky talk 18:02, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps the better takeaway is we shouldn't trust cascade protection. See the discussion on my talk page. Shubinator (talk) 19:11, 23 September 2012 (UTC)


I'd be glad to have a go if you like. I'd prefer to let you finish working first, particularly as the PR suggests there may be a potential copyvio problem with one of the sources. If you let me know when you are done, I'll have a look, although I warn you that better copy-editors are available! Sarastro1 (talk) 20:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm working that issue today/tomorrow. I'll let you know.PumpkinSky talk 20:47, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
I've made a tentative start, and please revert anything that I mess up. I also left some queries on the talk page which I was unable to clear up myself. Sarastro1 (talk) 19:29, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for the fairly slow progress so far, and I hope you are not in too much of a hurry. I have a few commitments on and off wiki over the next couple of days, but hope to finish this weekend. If I haven't responded to any replies on the talk page yet, it's because I'm still working through the article and will go back to earlier parts at the end. Hope this is proving useful. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:09, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
No worries, I need a few days on the refs too. YOu're doing great and many thanks.PumpkinSky talk 20:17, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
A translation would be greatly appreciated, as my German is, sadly, non-existent. Sarastro1 (talk) 16:33, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm just about done, I think. There are a few points left on the talk page, but anything I've struck is OK now in my opinion. You may want to get Brian or Malleus to have another look now as I'm sure they will see things that I have missed. Let me know if you want me to look again at any point, and I'll probably have another check through in a couple of days to see if there's anything else. Thanks for asking me to look at a very interesting article. I'm actually going to go and get my hands on some Kafka now that I've read this. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:58, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I was going to ask them when you're done. I have the Stach bio on the way and am waiting for the other volumes to be available. Thanks for helping! PumpkinSky talk 22:00, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Done. Left a few general queries which aren't particularly prose related, just things that struck me as a general reader. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:02, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

I'll be transparently bluntEdit

PS - I'm getting the distinct impression that you think I'm picking on you or retaliating for something. First, to be clear, I never interacted with you in your former account. Second, I've had Kafka on watch for years. Maybe you don't know this about me, but I write about literature, in particular about modernist literature, so I've been excited to see the page grow. One day I idly looked at a diff as it popped on my watch, saw a sentence sourced to the NYT and thought it looked interesting, pulled the source and read all 11 pages of it. You've just swapped out that source. I was also interested in the information about Knopf because I started Boni & Liveright; maybe you don't know this but in the 1920s only two publishers worked w/ Jewish writers. Being interested I looked at the source thinking I could find something to add to the Boni & Liveright page. That's when I stumbled across the e-book and mirroring situation. I was afraid to say anything; afraid it would be taken the wrong way (we were, after all co-competitors) – which apparently is the case. But the thing is this: I am doing you a favor! And I feel bad about doing that. I shouldn't. I can ignore the slights that have been made against me recently at WP:TFAR and the veiled comments at the Core Contest, but in the long run, keep in mind that I've stepped up to do you a favor before you go to FAC. Enough said. I'm off to take care of my pneumonia. Truthkeeper (talk) 00:27, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

" that you think I'm picking on you or retaliating for something" Not at all, you're mistaken on that. I appreciate the help. I have not been able to think of what I did to make you feel that way, but whatever it was, I apologize. PumpkinSky talk 01:21, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
TPSers...she apologized over on her talk page, all is well.PumpkinSky talk 09:52, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Article you requested per fair useEdit

Please let me know when you are done. Churn and change (talk) 00:53, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

That errors out, but I got it from OhanaUnited's link over on the request page. Thank you for trying. I do appreciate it. PumpkinSky talk 02:16, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 September 2012Edit


Thanks for that. Is it appropriate for me to support? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:41, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes. PumpkinSky talk 09:49, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Image license questionEdit

PumpkinSky, is there an image license suitable for Wikipedia that allows people to share the image but not modify it? • Jesse V.(talk) 19:20, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Is this an image you took/own? Do you want to use some sort of free license? PumpkinSky talk 19:29, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
I am trying to get an image for the Vijay Pande article. Yesterday he sent me a portrait taken by a private photographer, so he owns the copyright. I gave him some license options and he replied that he preferred one that could be shared but he preferred that they not be able to alter it. • Jesse V.(talk) 19:37, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
See commons:Commons:Licensing for license talk in plain language, not lawyer-ese. For your purpose, Public Domain is out of the question. You can see at that Commons link says derivative works must be allowed, which means someone can crop out a section, etc. Other options for Commons/EN wiki are GFDL and CC. Also see an example of the "attribution" license is possible, see more details on that here: File:Ocean Grove organ.jpg. If this person doesn't want anyone to "alter" it, I'd not recommend any of the free licenses in this case as he'd probably not be happy. That leaves Fair use, which you can use on EN wiki but not Commons. For how to use that on an image, you need a FUR-Fair Use Rational for each article it's in, see example here: File:Boy Scouts of America universal emblem.svg. Personally, I try to avoid fair use if at all possible. PumpkinSky talk 19:59, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Not to mention we're not allowed fair use images for living people. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:17, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
    • Quite true, quite true. PumpkinSky talk 10:55, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Deleted images checkEdit

Could you check the deleted images of Psychonaught and see what the copyrighted images were that were deleted? One of his images is in an FAC — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:16, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

WOW. This guy had roughly 75 deleted photos. What exactly are you looking for? PumpkinSky talk 11:06, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Drug images deleted for copyvio, if any. The image used in meth mouth has no EXIF data and is fairly recent. As I saw he has had files deleted for copyvio before, I wanted to see if there was a pattern before AGFing. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:02, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Of the roughly 75 deletions, just by looking at file names, at least 15 are drug related. You may also want to look at commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Drug lists of Psychonaught PumpkinSky talk 13:29, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
  • I did see that, they were all "out of scope" as they were essentially text. So none that look like copyvios? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Let me look at the reasons....PumpkinSky talk 13:42, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Reasons other than out of scope (just from looking at file names for drug-related ones): no source=1, missing essential info/license=1, duplicate=1. I guess you saw his talk page on commons too. I'd be wary of this guy. PumpkinSky talk 13:52, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Alright, I'll note that at the FAC. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:07, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Anyti0me~ PumpkinSky talk 16:43, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Re: Brow Monument and Brow Monument TrailEdit

I am sorry but I must decline your request to perform another review on this nomination at this time. Since February, when a special date request I had made for the 100th anniversary of Arizona statehood was bumped to a different date, there has been a persistent pattern of my nominations receiving unfavorable treatment at a disproportionately high rate (my image proposals are consistently rejected and roughly half my hooks with a strong geographical association are scheduled to run in the middle of the night). This has prompted a reevaluation of the amount of time I am willing to spend helping do the grunt work needed to keep the DYK system running smoothly. Nothing personal, but my time has been reallocated to other activities. --Allen3 talk 22:50, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

You commented there and I certainly don't have anything against you. I was just trying to help a newbie out. I'll put a comment there that you decline further participation in that nomination. I do understand how frustrating wiki can be. PumpkinSky talk 22:53, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
hello again. gee, the wiki world certainly is filled with a lot of intrigue. I've never been entirely sure what a DYK is - but people seem to want to have their work in that category. If it is simply an honor of some sort, I suppose that I am grateful to you for having promoted it as such. If having the DYK nomination fail, and it doesn't affect the Brow Monument article's ability to live on, then just having the information out there in the world is very satisfactory to me. You've been of immense help in getting it to this point and if you feel that pushing further will result in more 'intrigue', then I'm satisfied as is. (oh, and one other small favor and you can refer me elsewhere for the answer. I uploaded a new photo to wiki commons that shows the original rock cairn associated with the historical site - my photo. I have been trying to figure out how to tie it to the article. In the article, there is a section that says Wikimedia commons has media related to the article. by clicking it, it goes out to a gallery. how do i get the new pic into that gallery?

thanks again bill polkAbearfellow (talk) 23:12, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks and no problem. Yea, wiki is sometimes like trying to decipher a black crystal ball. To have a commons photo in your article, add it like a EN wiki photo, it'll "show through", that's what commons is for--any image there can be used on all wiki language projects. A successful DYK gets your article on the main page (see lower left of main page any time. PumpkinSky talk 23:17, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
{talk page watcher} I have added "Category:Brow Monument and Brow Monument Trail" to the image on the Commons and now it will appear in the related gallery there. -- Dianna (talk) 00:02, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
wow, thank you. i tried to figure out how to do that (after i'd already finished with the descriptions on the original upload) but i couldn't figure out a way back in to the category section. Is a talk page watcher the rupert giles of wikiworld?Abearfellow (talk) 00:12, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Just helping make things a little less cryptic. -- Dianna (talk) 01:09, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 01 October 2012Edit

/* Brow Monument and Brow Monument Trail */Edit

thanks for everything. i couldn't have done this without you. bill polkAbearfellow (talk) 23:31, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

no problemPumpkinSky talk 23:54, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK for BeaverslideEdit

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Brow Monument and Brow Monument TrailEdit

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:02, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Core Contest!Edit

  Second Prize - Core Contest
Congratulations for sharing in second prize in the August 2012 incarnation of the Core Contest! Your voucher will be on its way soon.... Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:35, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. I'm genuinely surprised. I've asked Gerda about using it to donate a Kafka bio to a library. PumpkinSky talk 15:48, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Mighty fine work! Binksternet (talk) 15:49, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
You were inspiring, thorough, inventive, - and now came up with a creative idea to use the prize, - Thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:03, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Congratulations!..Modernist (talk) 17:26, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you everyone, I really appreciate it. PumpkinSky talk 17:56, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Congratulations!SPhilbrick(Talk) 18:51, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
I love our shared star! Thanks for all you put into it! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:23, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
I love it too! Thank YOU! PumpkinSky talk 22:30, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Reiner StachEdit

Casliber (talk) 00:05, 5 October 2012 (UTC)


Could you please protect File:Giants Grave. - - 243538.jpg for DYK? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:49, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

It's got trickle down protection from that special category.PumpkinSky talk 20:29, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
typo PumpkinSky talk 22:58, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Ah, it's not broken anymore? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:59, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Not today at least ;-) Still don't trust it. PumpkinSky talk 23:01, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
  • You're still not the only one. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:06, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Some more:
  1. File:Darwinius masillae PMO 214.214.jpg
  2. File:Common rocket frog with tadpoles crop.JPG
  3. File:Bundesarchiv Bild 183-1990-1004-021, Berlin, Bundestagssitzung im Reichstag, Helmut Kohl crop.jpg
Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:53, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
Yikes. One had trickle down protection, two didn't. Glad we don't trust the bot ;- ) PumpkinSky talk 17:29, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Today's featured articleEdit

Are you allowed to have more than 1 article for the main page at a time, because I have seen you have.

If you mean DYKs, yes, several users have had more than one at a time. PumpkinSky talk 17:17, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Well yes and no. That's not what I meant, but thanks for telling me. No, I mean featured article.--Lucky102 (talk) 19:48, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Then I don't get it. There is only one FA on the MP at a time, so how could anyone have more than one at same time (same day)? Please elaborate. PumpkinSky talk 20:28, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
I do not mean the same day. I mean, it's like the DYK. You had more than 1 nomination for the main page at a time. Also, I made a mistake at TFA/R, and I'm a bit worried.--Lucky102 (talk) 20:29, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Oh yea, nom all you want at TFAR, though some like to impose the 5/10 limit. What mistake? PumpkinSky talk 20:31, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Can you, so you are allowed to have 2? 5/10 limit, do you mean the maximum amount allowed. I accidently removed Hanged Down and Quarted and replaced it with my own.--Lucky102 (talk) 20:34, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
─────────────────────────Yep, I've had 4 up at TFAR at one time, maybe 5. I'll go fix it, I'm sure it was accidental.PumpkinSky talk 20:38, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Imzadi already rv'd you. Go put yours into slot 1, 4, or 5. PumpkinSky talk 20:40, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
K, thanks!--Lucky102 (talk) 20:43, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Just clarifying, you can have as many TFA/R's as you like?--Lucky102 (talk) 20:45, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
(watching) your question is a bit unclear. (TFA/R's? TFARs?) You are probable able to read rules on top of the nominations page and the discussion on its talk? The rules are questioned. There is at present a limit of 10 nominations for dates and five for no specific date. Up to that limit, you (personally) can nominate as many as seems good to you. I (personally) think the 10/5 limit is not a good idea, but didn't fight it (yet) ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:05, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
I mean TFA/R. Thanks! Also go to my talk page, Gerda, you were mentioned.--Lucky102 (talk) 21:08, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Coming from there, giggling a bit. (Why TFA/R not simply WP:TFAR as the shortcut?) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:32, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/American Heart (song)Edit

Tony hasn't done the QPQ yet. --George Ho (talk) 23:20, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Oops. Will fix. Tks. PumpkinSky talk 23:23, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Now there is the QPQ, finally. --George Ho (talk) 02:22, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK hook prep sets should have only six hooksEdit

PumpkinSky, you've just put seven hooks into Prep 4, and there should only be six in prep sets currently; in fact, there's discussion to decrease the number of hooks or frequency of sets at the moment. This is the second day in a row you've included seven instead of six in the final set, so I wanted to be sure you were aware of the proper number going forward: it's awkward to have to demote a promoted hook because there's no open slot to move it to. Thanks for keeping this in mind going forward. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:03, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Disagree, that's too small and messes up the layout, to which I posted a bit ago.PumpkinSky talk 16:15, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
We formally switched to six a while ago, so I reduced this to six per that change. If we need to go back up for layout purposes, then something's going to break unless another adjustment is made, since we're not getting hooks approved fast enough (or even new ones at that rate). I'm posting to that effect on the talk page, if the Wikimedia servers ever let the edit go through. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:49, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your help regarding "Pezband"!Edit

Hi! I appreciate your assistance in helping us to properly license and attribute the photo "Pezband Live.jpg" to the Wikipedia page for Pezband. I'd not done this in the past, so your assistance is greatly appreciated by all. Best, Chuck Stack, aka CStack3

No problem. I just cleaned up the old tags and such for you on the image.PumpkinSky talk 21:37, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!Edit

  The Editor's Barnstar
Dear PumpkinSky, thank you very much for helping me and the band Pezband to update their Wikipedia page! Your assistance in helping us negotiate the photo license process was invaluable, and we are very pleased with how the page turned out. Very best, Chuck Stack (CStack3) and Pezband! CStack3 06:10, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you and no problem.PumpkinSky talk 10:37, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 08 October 2012Edit

Help needed with nominationsEdit

Would you be up for reviewing any of the following nominations?

Your assistance would be much appreciated. Prioryman (talk) 07:53, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

    • PumpkinSky, you might check into the background of this issue, if you aren't aware of it already. Cla68 (talk) 13:13, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
      • I'm not touching it. Feels like canvassing. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:39, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
        • The look Gibraltar related. I know a little about that but not the whole story. Also, these noms aren't that old so that also makes me wary. I have to go with Crisco on this one, sorry.PumpkinSky talk 19:08, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Kafka promotionEdit

I have only just noticed this (obsessed with my own small preoccupations). Double honour - first CORE, now FA. Warm congrats to you and your conom for a first-class addition to the encyclopedia. Brianboulton (talk) 23:19, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Why thank you, and thank YOU for a superb PR review and copyedit. PumpkinSky talk 23:21, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Beautiful job you, Gerda, and other editors did on Kafka article. I did a bit of insignificant work in its earlier incarnation; its come a very, long way since then.(olive (talk) 23:49, 15 October 2012 (UTC))

Thank you.PumpkinSky talk 00:21, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Congrats on the FA! Well done, Sir! :) - NeutralhomerTalk • 00:30, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you.PumpkinSky talk 00:47, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 15 October 2012Edit


Given that you know more than anyone just why resurrecting the CCI issues of 2010 hits such a raw nerve even two years later—and since you of all people can't be accused of being part of some imagined Raulist-cabal at FAC—would you be willing to try to talk MathewTownsend down from the Reichstag he's spent the last two days climbing? Those involved, for reasons immediately obvious to anyone who was there, don't want to restart this particular war; however, he's repeatedly grabbing the wrong end of the stick and assuming this reticence relates to some kind of elaborate conspiracy. He's throwing increasingly rabid allegations around in a lot of high-profile venues, and seems to be taking every attempt to explain the situation as a pretext to launch a fresh wave of attacks on anyone nearby. (I believe he's the first person I've ever expressly told to get off my talkpage, and even the ultra-meek Moonriddengirl has reached the point of telling him to go away.) He seems to be a good-faith editor who's just too proud to back down; if you think he'd listen to you, could you try to explain that sometimes, when things happen on Wikipedia without explanation or public discussion, there's a good reason for it? – iridescent 21:34, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

I can try to help, though I have not interacted with him much, but I don't want to go in with only bits of the story. About all I know is there's some dramafest over at WP:TFAR. Is this what you're talking about? You mention many venues. What are they? Can you give me more info, diffs, thread links, etc? PumpkinSky talk 22:12, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
  • I think he should be told that it's better to follow a "its better safe than sorry" principle with ILT. We don't want another drama fest like... well, October 2010 (sorry, Psky).  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:23, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
  • I've thought highly of MT, though he's a bit quirky, but then we all are. I hope you can do it. He's one of the ones I look to carry the weight after we throw from failing hands the torch and all that, in other words, the next generation of writers.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:31, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
It stems from this thread at TFAR; as you may recall, this article passed FAC in a purely plagiarised version but for long, tedious post-Sherwood reasons never went through a formal FAR so is still technically an FA (Truthkeeper has written a potted history of the issues around it here). Truthkeeper removed it from the requests queue, on the grounds that there's no possiblity it would pass and keeping it live was just reanimating a particularly unpleasant dispute; Mathew appears to have taken this as some kind of elaborate conspiracy (the purpose of which isn't clear, unless it's some kind of anti-Beatrix Potter cabal), and is posting increasingly wild accusations laced with abuse—initially on Mark Arsten's talk (Mark is a wholly innocent party in this), then on my talkpage, and after being warned off my talk has gone back to Mark, to the TFAR talkpage (I'm not sure he realises that MRG, who he's accusing of being part of the conspiracy, is a WMF staffer who is clearly losing patience with him), and on his own talk (everything from here down; permalink so may not be up to date), a fishing expedition to WP:Editor Retention, another thread at MRG's talk, and finally to Rschen7754. Given that he's now stepping on a lot of toes—and I can see a lot of people who are normally very patient beginning to get extremely irritated with him—I'm hoping you (or someone else watching your talk) can talk him down. For obvious reasons, nobody is realistically going to believe that you're part of a conspiracy with Truthkeeper, Nikkimaria and Moonriddengirl, and you have both the authority of "former arb who knows how and why things sometimes happen in the background"*, and the experience to explain why the "preserve all history" and "delete all copyvios from the history" are mutually incompatiable. – iridescent 22:38, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
*I know I am as well, but I really have no desire to engage with him any further. If the 'real' arbs get involved—and I can safely assume they're aware—there's only one way this will go, and it would be a shame for that to happen. – iridescent 22:38, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
(post-ec add) Wehwalt, you'd probably be a good choice to explain this as well; there are legal issues here (explained on my talk), and you also can't be accused of part of this particular conspiracy. – iridescent 22:38, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
From a quick glance, all I can say is what a mess. My memory is jogged--he did the GA review for Noel F. Parrish in the closing days of last year and I got along fine with him then. Now allow me to wade through this so I can see what's going on.PumpkinSky talk 22:56, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
Yeah… And they wonder why they have a shortage of volunteers to spend three hours a day seven days a week for two years dealing with nonsense like this. – iridescent 23:10, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm not about to say I've got every nuance of this now, but I do feel I have enough info now to comment. I did not know of the Moppet article issues from before--much of that was after I left. Writing something up now. As bad as this is, I can tell it could get much worse.PumpkinSky talk 23:39, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
Posted on his talk: User_talk:MathewTownsend#The_Moppet_issue PumpkinSky talk 00:17, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for trying to explain. I can't pretend that I know what you're talking about and all the initials and worries about "privacy concerns" confuse me as do the long explanations elsewhere. I notice that it was discussed in 2010 to take the article to FAR and I can only wonder why nothing was done then and why nothing is being done now. If only I could explain to you how confusing wikipedia is. Old users may think they are explaining their positions, but their obscure terminology fails to convey what on earth is going on regarding that article and others. I'm sorry that Truthkeep88 fails to extend to me the good faith that is supposed to be given. Her long explanations, filled with personal history, only create more confusion for me. Best for me just to stay out of anything that has to do with TFA, FA, and probably any GA review that is likely to go to FA, as many of the articles I've reviewed in the past have become FAs. Thanks again. Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 16:05, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Wiki can indeed be confusing. I hope I was of some help. One piece of advice is that if you find an area of wiki stressful, try to stay away from it. PumpkinSky talk 16:07, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I'll follow your advice. As I said above I'll avoid all articles that may be nominated for FA or GA. I'll avoid FAC and GA reviews in the future. I'll avoid having an opinion on any opinion board, even if I'm asked. I'll avoid all policy, guidleline and essay talk pages. Any place I'm personally attacked I won't respond and will avoid that page forevermore. I won't ever ask any questions again. Thanks for your advice. MathewTownsend (talk) 16:14, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Anne HutchinsonEdit

I think you should amend your statement there that {sfn} is the way to go in your view. All that's required is consistency, but who knows what the way to go is off this sinking ship. And while I'm here, and in a really smoking bad mood, I wish you'd have a look, carefully, as I've suggested a number of times at the Kafka page and cites that don't match the text. It's a very big problem and will come back to bite you. Consider this a friendly warning. Oh, btw, thanks so much for getting Mathew off my back. Could have dealt with that myself, though. Truthkeeper (talk) 02:23, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Amended that statement. As for Kafka, yes, you said that but you're not being specific and I'm not seeing exactly what the issue is as in "this ref XYZ doesn't match this statement ABC", so if you would be specific that would help. You also said you'd help find refs, which I was pleased to see you willing to help, and so stated at the time. Did you find any? I've also added dozens of Stach refs and found better ones for other things. Did you notice that? Gerda and I are still working on it even though the FAC is over.PumpkinSky talk 02:30, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for amending the statement. Re Kafka, I am being specific, and am very displeased the comments didn't make their way to the FAC page where I should have posted them, but quite frankly was afraid (and people are worried about incivility, but not worried about editors who edit in fear!). So specifics: they've been mentioned multiple times. Some examples off the top of my head (because I no longer have the page on watch) - the material in regards to erzahlung cited to Pawel I can't find in Pawel; the material cited to local Auroura newspaper about the local theater company is not by any stretch of the imagination a scholarly source and furthermore doesn't mention middle-German; the source from the community college appears to be class notes by a prof; not published material, not a scholarly source. I suggested getting a Cambridge Companion and see that the one used and linked appears to be readable as ScribD or whatever that is: I strongly suggest reading it. I do have sources, have had them for some weeks. Gerda told me to add; I'd prefer to send them on. Even better would be for you to do a good source search and request what you want so that I don't have to spend my time (better spent creating my own content) searching for sources. Truthkeeper (talk) 13:30, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
So you took the Kafka article off your watchlist but are now here bringing up issues? See Talk:Franz_Kafka#Points_to_clarify where you posted your issues and to which Gerda and I responded to in the thread but you failed to respond in that thread to our responses; towit as an example-re the erzahlung point, Gerda responded and asked you a question but you never answered it in that thread nor did you respond to our other comments there. To most users that would indicate you are okay with the status, but now you're over here complaining about it. On the Aurora thing, yea I missed that and just swapped it out with a Corngold book - who is certainly a German scholar of note. I'm sure Gerda will look into the erzahlung issue. You suggested I get Stach and I did and added dozen of refs from it. In fact, I'm still going through Stach as I do have a real life. I simply can't spend all day reading about Kafka even though I'd like to. You have sources but want us to add them for you? Or us to find out what you know on our own when you already know the material and its sources? That sounds highly inefficient and reinventing the wheel to me. Now please take this to its proper venue, Talk:Franz Kafka. PumpkinSky talk 15:03, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/ChedipeEdit

Hi PumpkinSky, please remove it from prep 2. It is created specially for Halloween. --Redtigerxyz Talk 05:39, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

OK, sorry i missed that. I see someone already took care of this.PumpkinSky talk 11:01, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Warning: I plan to have a Bach cantata on 31 October, expand BWV 79 for Reformation day, and - as in 2010 - am not afraid to have it between the Halloween ones, remember? ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:51, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
No problem. PumpkinSky talk 22:02, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Firefox dark yellow backgroundEdit

Couldn't help but notice the excellent background of the firefox your dog was using.How do you get that? Also, how do you get the old wiki globe back?♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 20:34, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

For the globe, try monobook skin. What dog photo are you talking about? PumpkinSky talk 22:01, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

[7]. I use monobook but it uses the new wiki logo which is not good..♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 12:19, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

That was a skin called "wood" I think. I don't know about the globe. PumpkinSky talk 22:14, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

File:Alben Barkley at desk cropped.jpgEdit

Could you protect this on Commons? Thanks. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:02, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Sure. Done deal. PumpkinSky talk 02:03, 23 October 2012 (UTC)


I'm sad to see your withdrawal so soon but I certainly understand why. I was beginning to draft my support in a text file. I hope to see community attitude change in 6 months or so. Ryan Vesey 23:36, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

I think it was a mistake to attempt to get advanced tools again after how it ended - its not about community attitude and the reasons for the lack of support/opposition will remain for the long term - you are doing good work and editing under a known account - be happy with that - regards - Youreallycan 23:44, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
We all have our opinions, but I'd add that neither you nor anyone else speaks for the community nor for the many editors who support this candidate. Further there are multiple misconceptions and several inaccurate points made in this RfA, and frankly enough red herrings that we could scoop them out of the water with out a net and using just our hands.(olive (talk) 23:56, 23 October 2012 (UTC))
  • is there an official withdrawal? I don't see that.(olive (talk) 00:00, 24 October 2012 (UTC))Thanks Ryan.(olive (talk) 00:23, 24 October 2012 (UTC))
  • PumpkinSky left a note at WP:BN, on the talk page, and on the RfA itself. Ryan Vesey 00:02, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Sad to see how it went, but I expect that in another 6 months or so you'd pass fairly easily. Most of the !votes were "not now", not "not ever". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:59, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
  • I really meant it when I said that I was sorry about opposing you. I know that what I'm saying now is just words, but I sincerely hope that you do not feel too badly about the way things happened. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:01, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Personally as an objector abeit a bit involved I did the decent thing and stayed away as I suspect others did - this is not a come back in six months message, its more of a , are you serious? Youreallycan 00:06, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Yes, there is no doubt that I am forever the Ungeziefer mit dem Scarlett-Buchstaben PumpkinSky talk 00:14, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Nope! Don't buy it. :O)(olive (talk) 00:22, 24 October 2012 (UTC))
  • It's all so easy to throw stones at those at the top - even easier to kick a person when they are down. While I could understand a couple of the opposes, what frightens me most is how the false sock meme got tossed about so freely. Sadder still that someone would go to such lengths to propagate such falsehoods. (I believe at one point they even had more edits to the page than you did). I know we can't go into details due to the need to respect another editor's wishes and privacy, but I am truly sorry you had to suffer outright lies and falsehoods. I think the way you've dealt with such adversity throughout the last year and a half is admirable, and your ability to remain calm in the face of such storms commendable. I know this has been difficult for you, but I truly admire how you've dealt with it. I look forward to working with you in the future, and hopefully supporting another RfA if you can find it tolerable. All my best sir - with the utmost respect. — Ched :  ?  00:36, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • I hope that wasn't too unpleasant; I hope you'll focus on the kind things that were said. - Dank (push to talk) 01:54, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • It's unfortunate that I was too busy in real life to support your RFA in time. I know its more a discussion and not a vote, but you did have 59 for, 32 against, with 7 neutral. So you had nearly twice as many people supporting you as you did opposing. Not an overwhelming consensus for sure, but I'm surprised that you withdrew. How sad that the community doesn't forget grudges so easily. Perhaps if you kept up the good work and tried again later it would go through. (Btw, thanks for the mention, and my review of Minecraft's GA nom was much more organized than the one for yogo sapphire.) • Jesse V.(talk) 01:57, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • It is a shame that many people on the site are very anti-second chance. If someone screws up big time, then it's game over for them. (I don't buy the "6 month" opposers and their bs, they have their minds made up.) You've been a great editor and it's great to see you helping at CCI now, and that's what matters. Wizardman 02:32, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Closed before I could chime in...I've not had the tools in 6 years and find I rarely need them...there's usually somebody about that can help you if you ask. take care and don't let this beat you up.--MONGO 03:06, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Shot you an email at an old address, so I don't know if it is still valid... but in case it isn't, wanted to let you know that I considered creating a new account just to !vote for you. If your email is valid, you know who this is, if not... oh well. (talk) 04:16, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm sure that would have violated the letter, if not just the spirit, of WP policy... • Jesse V.(talk) 04:41, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
No it wouldn't have. I would have identified who I used to be and the 'crats would have been able to take my !vote into consideration for what it was worth... a retired user who believes in PS enough that I momentarily came out of retirement to support. It would have all be above board and up to the 'crats to evaluate the support (and I would have let one or two of them know it was really who it claimed to be.) It's been done before and it'll be done again. (talk) 15:13, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • I accept the reason why you decided to withdraw. I hope you try again in a few months to a year or so from now - a fair number of the people in opposition appeared to be willing to support you at a later date. I definitely think that you will make a good admin again. :) Best. Acalamari 08:05, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Sorry it went this way. I've been busy, and I didn't have time to weigh in at your RFA. Please don't let this discourage you from Wikipedia. RFA sucks. You still have a lot of good to offer to Wikipedia. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 08:47, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • I never even knew you were running. I would have supported. North8000 (talk) 10:32, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • What I had wanted to add: I miss BarkingMoon, a promising editor, who was not trusted by "The Community" and left. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:23, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Sorry it didn't work out. I'd try again in 6 or 9 months, but it isn't a negative reflection on you or all of your good work. I still remember that User #1 has never been an admin and is still editing happily. MBisanz talk 15:45, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Sorry it didn't work out, and I hope a bit more time will soften some of the opposes. (I have to say I find the occasional "never forgive" attitude despicable, though thankfully there were only a few.) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:38, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
    • It's one thing to "forgive" someone for crashing a borrowed car, but something quite different to let them borrow another car. I'm happy to forgive PS for his past indiscretions, he seems to be a decent contributor now... but no way would I trust him with the mop again -- especially after he declined to answer so many uncomfortable but important optional questions at this most recent RFA. "Forgiveness" isn't the issue here; you want everyone to "forgive and forget," which doesn't seem wise here. I'm entirely OK with you thinking I'm despicable for that. Townlake (talk) 19:53, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Support Psky: I'd try again in 6 months just to see who will put up or shut up about their "in 6 months" comments. As for the two people here who are saying "not now, not ever," I will presume you two insert uncivil adjective here never made a single mistake in your life. Really. Please do keep throwing the first stone. Montanabw(talk) 23:06, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Yeah, see, here we go again. This simply isn't an "everyone makes mistakes" issue, for reasons amply discussed above. (Side note: It doesn't make sense to place an uncivil adjective at that point in your sentence; an uncivil plural noun would be a better bet.) Townlake (talk) 01:29, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
How about an uncivil adjective AND an uncivil plural noun? Montanabw(talk) 22:47, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Actually it is, an everybody-makes-mistakes issue. You can build a huge issue around a mistake until a narrative has been constructed so convincingly that many who don't know or perhaps don't want to know the real story, believe it. It happens all the time on Wikipedia. Truth can be so boring compared to a good lynching, after all. Fairy tales are good for an entertaining read but mature people don't live by them, do they, and they shouldn't be perpetuated as truth. I just hope Pumpkin Sky will overlook the false narrative perpetuated at a recent RfA and continue on with the real story of who he is as an editor. (olive (talk) 03:37, 30 October 2012 (UTC))

PS was asked a series of optional questions that would have allowed him to set the record straight about his past; he chose to close his RFA rather than answer those questions. There is no "false narrative." (PS's four nominators surely did him no favors, spinning his past into such an unbelievable story of uncheckered heroism that they begged users vaguely familiar with Rlevse to dig back into his history.) Townlake (talk) 05:30, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
Can we all please let the matter drop for awhile at least and do something else? Townlake, this obviously ended the way you wanted it to, and you don't need to keep hammering on PS. He's made it clear that he's had enough and you're beating a dead horse. Keilana|Parlez ici 06:03, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
If you review the above, you'll see that all I've been doing is responding to people who have decided it is worthwhile to throw rocks at the opposers. You can't make me feel bad about answering the criticism. And I still want to know more about this "false narrative" that so many PS supporters insist exists. Townlake (talk) 02:22, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

───────────────────────── I was first intrigued to come here and answer directly the notion of "doing something else". I am always interested in inviting people to help me on some different kinds of editing, mainly involving WP:RECP. Then I gain the additional context, and feel drawn to add my impressions. Townlake, I remember a time when you and I had strong differences, and nearly mutual disregard for kindness or compromise. I would have said "I was clear that we were from opposite camps". Except that one day I realized I had been wrong about you; completely! I also respect PumpkinSky and mostly support his arguments where I have seen them. I don't even know the dialog that happened above, but I do feel that two decent people are misunderstanding each other. Keilana seems to have good advice, so I join in asking the same thing; in hope. Sincerely - 76Strat String da Broke da (talk) 06:54, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Townlake, do you really need to keep pushing the issue? PS isn't editing. You're still going after him. Please, kindly, leave him alone and go do something productive. God forbid, write an article. Keilana|Parlez ici 03:49, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
What part of "all I've been doing is responding to people" do you not understand? If you don't want me to keep responding to you, stop throwing rocks. Townlake (talk) 04:56, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
And thus the "glass house" becomes the "elephant in the room". — ChedZILLA 07:18, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
  • 'all I've been doing is responding to people'? This implies that you insist on having the last word, a battleground mentality and not a constructive one given the context. I'd suggest backing down — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:24, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
Look, I know full well that bickering on a talk page here isn't going to solve any world problems. But since we all know PS is going to put up another RFA at some point, and because so many folks are already here supporting it and attacking the opposition, I see a place for my voice here. There is no "winning" or "losing" on this talk page, but it's silly to claim I should be silent just because I disagree with people attacking PS's opposition. I certainly agree with you that the sooner this talk page thread dies, the better. Townlake (talk) 12:31, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
  • You can disagree, no one is stopping you. But one should hope you do it while assuming good faith and speaking civilly. Nobody should attack the other side: their reasonings, sure, but not the people. As for the "opposition" making a showing here, it's probably causing more drama than actually contributing constructively. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:50, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

I found some of the "optional questions" to be be badly written, hostile and somewhat manipulative. Some had attacks / assertions hidden in the them as implied premises. Another had a false implied premise that a certain OK behavior (whether or not it occurred) was wrong. North8000 (talk) 12:54, 31 October 2012 (UTC)


br'erly treats

at this point I thought no questions should be left open and started a thread "questions?", answers that lead to more questions, - with leftover treats for everyone in need ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:45, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
As that thread was deleted, my key facts here:
  • BarkingMoon (talk · contribs) I met him on DYK, we worked on articles together. When he left, I screamed and was close to leaving myself. "The Community" believed that he was Rlevse. I don't. I believe that Rlevse showed him around, but he was a different person whom Wikipedia lost, a sad loss. (see his user and talk, and my talk archive)
"... we'll never know the true story"
  • PumpkinSky (talk · contribs) I met him on DYK. When he was blocked after half a year for being the same as Rlevse (had been long before), I joined the efforts to "free" him, successful after two months. We have created articles together which I enjoy. I trust him.
... My trust is based on long-term collaboration, - for BarkingMoon unfortunately short-term, but enough to create trust. (Repeating: a different person. Trust me: I can tell a boy from a man.) Please see also treatment of editors as human beings and Contributor copyright investigations/PumpkinSky. I am happy in my trust. - End of quote.
After all that, Townlake still points at similarities between Rlevse and BarkingMoon, - as if people would not see those similarities themselves or be surprised by similarities between teacher and student. There's an interesting table comparing abbreviations between the two and me, I felt very honoured to be included in the company ;) - I imitate what I see and like. Every time I approve a DYK nomination, I use BarkingMoon's "appr", thinking of him, 115 times so far in 2012 ;) He also deserves the Black barnstar. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:17, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Townlake dropped the link to the similarities, - I would like to see them reword some of the above, but that is probably hoping too much, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:31, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
Everyone else, including me, wanted to stop the battleground nonsense. For some reason you seem committed to continuing it. Please withdraw. (And with that, I once again withdraw from this talk page, as promised below.) Townlake (talk) 13:33, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Erm... you do realise the irony that you continue to try and have the last word? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:06, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Townlake, we get it; you hate Psky's guts and will do anything to support your campaign that he is somehow the manifestation of all evil in the universe. The rest of us simply disagree. So drop the stick. Montanabw(talk) 17:03, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
I complimented Pumpkin's editorial contributions to the community at his recent RFA above in this thread. No, I don't "hate Psky's guts;" I have no personal animosity toward him whatsoever, and you have no evidence to support your irresponsible claim to the contrary. Townlake (talk) 02:15, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
@North8000. A bit understated, but I agree. I'm amazed that none of the crats or arbs removed some of the "have you stopped beating your mother" type of questions as a PA. I was very tempted to - but I'm sure cries of "INVOLVED" would have erupted. I hope we haven't lost another top notch editor - but I can't be shocked given the way things have been going lately. — ChedZILLA 20:51, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
We can at least agree that Pumpkin is a valued contributor. I hope he hasn't left the project for good simply because he didn't get the tools back. And with that statement, I'm leaving this talk page behind for now. Townlake (talk) 02:15, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 22 October 2012Edit

Barnstar for you!Edit

  The Barnstar of Diligence
PumpkinSky, I want to thank you for all that you've done for the community so far. Your work with yogo sapphire was amazing, and I most recently I'd like to thank you for your help with my FA nomination of Folding@home. I am elated at its success and I'm very grateful for your help! :D All the best, • Jesse V.(talk) 14:54, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

On a related note, if you could please give your opinion on the Folding@home nomination in Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests, I'd sure appreciate it. :) • Jesse V.(talk) 23:39, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Never mind, it was abruptly scheduled for November 1st. Anyway, I'm happy with that. :) • Jesse V.(talk) 00:38, 26 October 2012 (UTC)


Email received. In short response: I am merely one Wikipedian. You were and are responsible for your own choices.

Anyway, GoodBye to you as well. (And per your comments here, unless you have now decided to be one of the 10% (evidence of choices of the past would seem to hinder good faith on believing this), I suppose we'll see you again sometime.)

Enjoy RL as you may. - jc37 23:53, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 October 2012Edit

Re. RfAEdit

Sorry it didn't work out. Hopefully next time you'll regain the bit. SPI and DYK have both missed you quite a bit. Kurtis (talk) 04:08, 2 November 2012 (UTC)


PumpkinSky, I trust you and want to say why, in facts. This is the longer version of "the past" above, - it hurts me to write because it touches unhappy corners of my past in the project - but probably hurts me less than you. My point of view is limited, please fill in blanks.

  • BarkingMoon (talk · contribs) I met him on DYK, we worked on articles together. When he left, I screamed and was close to leaving myself. "The Community" believed that he was Rlevse. I don't. I believe that Rlevse showed him around, but he was a different person whom Wikipedia lost, a sad loss. (see his user and talk, and my talk archive)
"... we'll never know the true story" (Will Beback)

I joined the efforts to "free" you, successful after two months. We have created articles together which I enjoy.

I trust you, based on long-term collaboration. Please listen to your friends: be back! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:37, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


pumpkin sky
I miss your Precious support!

"You have to start somewhere"
  1. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:06, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
  2. -- Wehwalt (talk) 14:51, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
  3. -- Dianna (talk) 16:02, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
  4. -- Montanabw(talk) 16:48, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
  5. -- (olive (talk) 19:29, 12 November 2012 (UTC))
  6. -- Wizardman 20:52, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
  7. -- Keilana|Parlez ici 21:24, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
  8. -- • Jesse V.(talk) 00:56, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
  9. -- Youreallycan 08:52, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
  10. -- Yngvadottir (talk) 05:19, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
  11. -- Kurtis (talk) 19:19, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
  12. -- Go Phightins! 11:43, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
  13. --  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:06, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
  14. -- Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:30, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
  15. -- Tomcat (7) 20:43, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
  16. -- Sarnold17 (talk) 21:15, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
  17. -- My76Strat (talk) 05:26, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
  18. -- MBisanz talk 23:38, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
  19. -- AutomaticStrikeout (TC) 23:43, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
  20. -- Acalamari 23:45, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
  21. -- Dennis Brown - © Join WER 23:55, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
  22. -- meshach (talk) 23:56, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
  23. -- Buster Seven Talk 13:50, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
  24. --Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 04:36, 8 February 2013 (UTC)


I will not add my name to that list. I hate the times you're not editing, but I know and respect you. Over MANY years you have given soooo much time and effort to this project, and I won't dismiss that work with a "see ya" type of comment. I understand the frustration that goes with being a wikipedia editor - I've felt it myself many times. I respect your choice to either edit or not edit on any given day. YES .. I do wish you were active 24/7 .. but - more than the foolishness that is Wikipedia, I wish you "PEACE". So .. be it fixing a typo somewhere, or finding a WW II veteran to write about .. ping me sometime to work on an article buddy. All my best to you and yours. — Ched :  ?  00:53, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Wise words, Ched. Intothatdarkness 22:27, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 05 November 2012Edit

Truman FAEdit

Congratulations! Your work on the Truman biography has helped to make it a Featured Article. Cheers! Binksternet (talk) 17:13, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Strong support --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:30, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
  Like PumpkinSky, you should at least come back to look at the article. Well done! :) • Jesse V.(talk) 05:43, 20 November 2012 (UTC)


--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:50, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes North8000 (talk) 21:44, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


Hey Pumpkin: I am sorry I missed your leaving. I'm sorry also to hear that you left. Maybe you'll come back: I hope so. It's been a pleasure working with you. Drmies (talk) 15:51, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


Yes. North8000 (talk) 21:43, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
I missed it too. Too busy teaching people a lesson. But [with an effort] it's a pity you left. I'll guard your page, and just let me know [effortlessly, in fact with glee] if you want any crap removed from it, or any ankles bitten. darwinbish BITE 23:47, 14 December 2012 (UTC).

Where's Pumpkin Sky??Edit

  Happy Festivus!
Wikipedia without Pumpkin Sky is like Christmas without the trees and trimming. Happy Festivus! Come back on Wiki and I promise to let you beat me in the Feats of Strength !! Best wishes, -- Dianna (talk) 00:02, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Merry ChristmasEdit

PumpkinSky, I hope you have a Merry Christmas and hope your day is full of the true spirit of the day.
Plus, good food, good family and good times. :) Have a Great Day! :) - NeutralhomerTalk • 07:32, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Spread the joy of Christmas by adding {{subst:User:Neutralhomer/MerryChristmas}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Invitation and RSVPEdit

You're invited to participate in Wikipedia Loves Libraries 2013, a workshop and edit-athon hosted by Missoula Public Library for the purpose of improving National Register of Historic Places listings in Montana and stubs relating to Montana. No prior experience needed! The event will take place on Friday, January 4, 2013 from 3:30-5:30pm at the Missoula Public Library Main Branch in Missoula, Montana. You can view details about this Wiki Loves Libraries event here. Be sure to RSVP and share the results of your work HERE.

(Note change in start time to 3:30PM)Djembayz (talk) 16:21, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Return to the user page of "PumpkinSky/Archive 2".