Project editor retention logo 1.svgelcome to Wikipedia Ovinus, from WikiProject Editor Retention
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Again, welcome! John from Idegon (talk) 09:48, 28 April 2020 (UTC) John from Idegon (talk) 09:48, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia: check out the Teahouse!Edit

Hello! Ovinus Real, you are invited to the Teahouse, a forum on Wikipedia for new editors to ask questions about editing Wikipedia, and get support from peers and experienced editors. Please join us! John from Idegon (talk) 09:49, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Spoke Wikipedia Barnstar AwardEdit

  The Spoken Barnstar
Not only one, but two articles since the revival. Being the first person since and recording one that is today's Featured Article. Way to get noticed and thank you for your hard work. Keep on talking! Galendalia Talk to me CVU Graduate 14:44, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Copyeditor's BarnstarEdit

  The Copyeditor's Barnstar
Ovinus Real, I am awarding you this Copyeditor's Barnstar in recognition of the tireless work you put forth in copyediting the article Gina R. Poe. Keep up the good work! --Johnnie Bob (talk) 13:15, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

@Johnnie Bob: Thank you! Glad to be here. Ovinus (talk) 14:07, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!Edit

  The Technical Barnstar
Noticed your great work on multiple templates. Thank you! — Yours, Berrely • TalkContribs 17:20, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

@Berrely: Thank you Berrely! Nice to hear from you again. Ovinus (talk) 03:27, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctionsEdit

DYK nomination of Names of the United StatesEdit

  Hello! Your submission of Names of the United States at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 19:30, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Names of the United StatesEdit

 On 20 September 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Names of the United States, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the name "United States" was originally plural, but gradually transitioned after the Civil War to a singular noun? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Names of the United States. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Names of the United States), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Oh...did you add that info?--Mark Miller (talk) 06:00, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
@Mark Miller: I don't think my hook selection from the portion of the article which was a content fork negates the point of DYK. Respectfully, I'd appreciate if you could not get too heated over the United States article. I tried in good faith—and as a new editor, having come only a couple months ago—to help improve the article during its GAR. If I did something wrong, I apologize; I didn't know better. Ovinus (talk) 06:53, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
If I have said something to make you think I'm being heated with that question you are not assuming good faith. The question was simply about attribution and if you had researched and written that portion. I do not doubt your good faith nor do I feel there is anything wrong with being a new editor. Welcome. But it is a concern when a new editor begins making major changes to one of the most viewed articles and begins creating new articles as content forks against policy. The section was not really large enough to be forked.
But please remember, while you are new, you jumped in the deep end and I think discussing the article and work is important if we are to try to collaborate.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:38, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Now, getting back to Names of the United States I was wanting to know if you understood attribution, how to attribute work within Wikipedia and the policy and guidelines for copying within Wikipedia? I cannot find the proper attribution when you copied the content to the new article and there is no tag on the talk page. If I missed it, sorry, if not, is this something I could assist you with?--Mark Miller (talk) 00:47, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
@Mark Miller: I agree I jumped too far into the deep end! Of course we should honestly discuss, and I hope we can have others (after Moxy) weigh in too. Sorry about my comment, I was flustered. And yes, I did not provide proper attribution on the destination page; the best I did was this edit. I'll place the appropriate template on the talk page now. Ovinus (talk) 00:58, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
No problem and of course Moxy and any other editors should be a part of any consensus. In the future when copying content from one article to another, at minimum, you must provide the following summary (or something close to it), using links to easily check; "Content from [[Article A]] is being copied into [[Article B]] and serves as attribution". The "and serves as attribution" is optional.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:12, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for the advice, I will do that! Ovinus (talk) 01:14, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
You may wish to see the full guidelines, procedures etc. at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Also Wikipedia:WikiProject Merge has full information on the merging process. Happy editing and again, welcome to Wikipedia.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:18, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! and a questionEdit

Thanks for posting on my talk page, it makes me glad that people on here aren't cold to newcomers (and that I'm not the only <18), and thanks for the resources. I was gonna redo my user page soon and now I might steal some templates from yours, but do you know if there's a list of these anywhere? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mossypiglet (talkcontribs)

@Mossypiglet: Of course. I've found that the switch to online schooling has given a lot more time, and since we're mostly confined to our homes editing Wikipedia is a great way to interact with strangers. Those templates you're talking about are called userboxes, and you can find an index of them here. I would recommend you don't disclose too much identifiable information, especially since you're a minor like me. Also, it's always good practice to add ~~~~ at the ends of your messages on talk pages (but never in articles). That will automatically add your username, talk page and the time you wrote the message, which provides attribution to that message.

In terms of perceived coldness, I think this is a fascinating and frustrating issue. Despite the pleads to "not bite the newcomers" it still happens far too much, often by very experienced editors who feel their time is worth more than helping some random plebeian. Some editors are terse and "alpha-male"-like in their messages, especially edit summaries. Others are more gentle. Of course, both these styles have their pros and cons, but please don't be discouraged if an editor calls your edit "illogical" or "incorrect". Not every edit is good, and even the most experienced editors will have their edits scrutinized. If someone calls you illogical, then that's unacceptable. But sometimes when seeing a particularly strongly worded edit summary I have to take a break, maybe do something else, then return level-headed.

Glad you reached out and feel free to continue to do so. Also, if you ever want to do content collaboration, hit me up! Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 20:46, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

@Ovinus Real: You're here for almost the same reason as me, then. My school is in-person but only two days a week, and the teachers give us far from seven hours of work on the off days. Thanks for the info, I knew about the tildes but I always forget. So far I haven't had much interaction with people but we'll see how it goes. Thanks again, Mossypiglet (talk) 20:54, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
@Mossypiglet: Cool! By the way, if you want your name to appear lowercase, you can 1. Put {{lowercase title}} at the top of your user and talk pages and 2. customize your user signature by going to Special:Preferences and changing your signature. For example, my default signature is Ovinus Real, but I have set it to Ovinus. Also, if you want to be notified of all changes to a particular page, you can press the star in the top right corner, which will add it to your Watchlist (accessible at Special:Watchlist). Ovinus (talk) 23:36, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mute (music)Edit

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Mute (music) you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria.   This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Lee Vilenski -- Lee Vilenski (talk) 15:00, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mute (music)Edit

The article Mute (music) you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold  . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Mute (music) for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Lee Vilenski -- Lee Vilenski (talk) 16:00, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mute (music)Edit

The article Mute (music) you nominated as a good article has passed  ; see Talk:Mute (music) for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Lee Vilenski -- Lee Vilenski (talk) 16:02, 14 October 2020 (UTC)


  The Music Barnstar
Noticed that mute has been promoted to a Good Article. Congratulations! mossypiglet (talk) quote or something 17:44, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much!   Sincerely, Ovinus (talk) 20:29, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Jaylen Waddle - ReversionEdit

Thank you for reverting and locking down the Jaylen Waddle page. Was fighting the troll as an anon, but couldn't revert properly. Aulzerenor (talk) 01:18, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

@Aulzerenor: Sure thing. Welcome to Wikipedia (?) as an account, and let me know if you need anything! Ovinus (talk) 04:44, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Does this account belong to you?Edit

I just saw that Ovinus Fake was created, stating on their user page that they're an alternative account to yours. Can you let me know if this is true? I just want to make sure that no shenanigans are going on. :-) Thanks - ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 08:02, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

@Oshwah: Haha yes, no shenanigans. I have updated my user page accordingly. Do you think the nickname is too confusing? If so I can abandon it; I'm just using it to test a potential future bot. As an aside, thanks for protecting the US presidential candidate pages. Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 08:05, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for letting me know! Nope, not confusing at all; your username is fine. I just wanted to double-check just in case. I see a lot of LTA users try and pull that off, so I just try and follow through when I see new users making those sort of claims. :-) If you need to make any more alternative accounts, you can use your main account to do so (though you don't have to). While logged into your main account, just go to Special:CreateAccount and fill out the form as you would usually. This way, the user creation log will show that the alternative account was created by your main account (see here for an example of an account I created), and it'll avoid suspicion since we know it's not an impersonator. ;-) Cheers - ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 08:13, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Didn't know that, thanks for the info! I'll use Special:CreateAccount when (and if) I create my bot account. Ovinus (talk) 08:17, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
Awesome! I'm glad you learned something new! Good luck with your bot! :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 08:45, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

ArbCom 2020 Elections voter messageEdit

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New editorEdit

  The Excellent New Editor's Barnstar

A new editor on the right path
You are doing well, I hope this barn star, which I truly feel you deserve, makes up a bit for my hesitation towards you as an editor at first. You were welcomed here originally by a member of Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention, the same member that inspired the award in discussion. I love giving it out, not because I created it, but when it is well deserved. I put up with me. ;) Mark Miller (talk) 07:46, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

@Mark Miller: Haha, thank you! You had important concerns and I'm glad you found the copyright issue and brought it up. Thanks again, Ovinus (talk) 16:34, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

I have a few real life issues to deal with right now but hope to get back to the article after December 9th.--Mark Miller (talk) 07:54, 3 December 2020 (UTC)


Thank you for this edit. I'm embarrassed that I don't know this book - is it good?? (Er yes this is a personal enquiry, not a Wikipedia thing at all!) Cheers DBaK (talk) 20:00, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

@DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered: Haha! I'm planning to bring up Trumpet to GA over the next few weeks, so if you have any input that would be great! This book has been helpful for trumpet pedagogy and in general, that of orchestral brass instruments. I think it gives a good practical perspective, rather than a historical or technical one. It's definitely a good book, and let me know if you're interested in any particular portions of it; I can email you. Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 20:05, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Oh that's great news! I have been incompetently fiddling with it on and off for almost 20 years so it would be wonderful to see something good going on. I probably have nothing useful to add but will certainly keep an eye on it as you develop it. And continue to revert people whose alcohol/testosterone levels get the better of them when they are editing ... and thanks very very much re Ely - I will have a look! Cheers DBaK (talk) 20:10, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
@DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered: Alcohol/testosterone levels get the better of them That made my day!   And sounds good. Ovinus (talk) 20:13, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Biblical criticismEdit

Hey it's okay, no worries about being unable to finish, I completely understand. If you could post a pass or fail on the part you've done that would be helpful, but if you don't feel like you can say, that's okay too. Hopefully we'll have another chance to work together another time. Good luck with whatever you're doing, I'm sure you'll do great at it whatever it is! Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:15, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

@Jenhawk777: Thank you for the kind words, and yes, hopefully we can work together in the future! Warmly, Ovinus (talk) 18:41, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year!Edit

I wish you an outstanding 2021, with lots of happiness and fun! I also wish you a productive Wiki year. All the best! - Victor P. (talk) 08:54, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much Victor! You too. Ovinus (talk) 21:11, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

In friendshipEdit


Thank you for help with the Jerome Kohl article, remembered in friendship --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:29, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Well my contributions were minimal, but thank you! Rest in peace.... Ovinus (talk) 16:12, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
It was the minimal help of estimated 15 editors who made it possible, and that's what I like about Wikipedia! I haven't forgotten the Bach cantata, only am under less stress since I found out that it will be for 2022 the earliest. Will split the recordings section off, as already done for BWV 4, but will expand the music part, eventually. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:19, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: Yeah, that is part of the beauty of it! Thank you for your efforts to keep his memory alive. I never met him, of course, but I gather that he was an incredible and dedicated person. And sounds good, hopefully my FAC comments are occasionally helpful! Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 23:36, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
yes, they are, and we added to the discography - please look again if you can. Bach music pictured ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:20, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
could you? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:30, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
Sorry Gerda! I thought I'd responded earlier saying I would get to it. Made some comments now. Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 02:38, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
All fine, no apologies needed, - I responded. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:46, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
Thank you! - Today, we have a DYK about Wilhelm Knabe, who stood up for future with the striking school children when he was in his 90s, - a model, - see here. - Further down on the page, there are conversations about the current arb case request - I feel I have to stay away - in a nutshell: "... will not improve kindness, nor any article". - Yesterday, I made sure on a hike that the flowers are actually blooming ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:47, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Wow, rest in peace. Did you know of him before his passing? You sure make a lot of DYK articles, Gerda! Regarding ArbCom, I dare not even look at it; I hope to avoid controversy on here like the plague unless it directly concerns me. But I hope the result is fair and in the best interest of all. Glad you went on a hike! I'm actually planning on going on a socially-distanced walk this afternoon (it's the morning here), and shall look for the flowers and bees too. As perhaps another good sign, a pair of mallard ducks recently moved into my backyard. I occasionally hear them squabbling and quacking while I'm sitting at my desk. They were here last year too! Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 15:53, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
I knew of him as being in the news, but not personally. I look at Recent deaths, and those with German and/or music, I expand, - yesterday Wolfgang Boettcher. - Enjoy spring! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:59, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Pending changes reviewer grantedEdit

Hello. Your account has been granted the "pending changes reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on pages protected by pending changes. The list of articles awaiting review is located at Special:PendingChanges, while the list of articles that have pending changes protection turned on is located at Special:StablePages.

Being granted reviewer rights neither grants you status nor changes how you can edit articles. If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time.

See also:

Mz7 (talk) 19:55, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Hello dear!Edit

Haven't heard from you in awhile and just wanted to make sure you are okay. Cheers! Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:30, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@Jenhawk777: It is so good to hear from you! and I haven't forgotten about Christian ethics, I will get there eventually (hopefully before the GAN). Life has been hectic lately—school, mostly—but I'm able to be intermittently on Wikipedia these days. Hope you are well! What other things have you been working on? Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 05:21, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
No worries! Eventually someone will review it!   I have been working on Problem of evil and creating Evolutionary theodicy to go on it and be its own article. I also split PofE it and created Religious responses to the problem of evil because everything was in there twice! I have also been working on Persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire hopefully adding some balance, and am about to finish up there. Spending a lot of time in my sandbox these days! Please don't worry about CE. I love your input, but understand priorities. I genuinely just wanted to know you were well and not letting the isolation get to you too much. I'm good now that I know you are well and busy. That's cool. Keep on keeping on! Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:52, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
@Jenhawk777: Well darn, that's a lot of things you're working on! Silly question, but how do you have access to so many interesting sources? Is it part of your university/alma mater? Ovinus (talk) 07:13, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
I have the same accesses you do I'm sure. I do have three brousers open at all times, and will spend hours and hours researching and searching and reading and just looking at what is generally said on whatever subject I'm looking at before writing. I want to be sure I have an accurate understanding, so it is not unusual for me to look at a hundred items and then discard most of them once I start writing. I want to use only the best sources that contain internal references to other scholarly work, evidence of an effort at a balanced and unbiased approach, a good presentation of the broad spectrum of evidence, and while I often find originality and insight, it is sometimes too small a point to include even when it is good. I will occasionally skirt the edge a little if the source makes an important point, but generally, I spend a lot of time looking at stuff I never use. But it all gives me a good overview of the topic, which is what I then write. It's not my sources that are any different from anyone else's I don't think, it's the time I spend gathering them that is different. Many that write here have preconceived views, go looking for a few scholars that echo those, and write that one little niche view as if it were all there is. Not good scholarship in my view. I say research first, find out what the views are, then organize and present what seems most important. On [Persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire] I have taken a month to research the one small final section on Martyrdom (which is heavily biased) that has now grown into a discussion of the controversies connected to it instead. It's been interesting. I have a whole new understanding of the topic now. That's how it usually ends up for me. Me and Googlebooks and Googlescholar - and Firefox - and Safari - and the wonderful Resource Exchange here on WP. They are stupendous. Jenhawk777 (talk) 07:43, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
@Jenhawk777: I can't imagine the effort involved, goodness. I already see such a broad collection of sources and to think you selected those from way more... well, the articles are even better off thanks to that broad pursuit. Yeah, preconceived views afflict many poorly maintained philosophy/culture articles, and I usually lack the needed expertise—or ability to balance views—to meaningfully help. So... tone down some exaggerations, tag the article, move on.... I'm finding it hard to write neutrally about trumpet players, let alone some life philosophies I hold strong opinions about! So you're doing an incredible job. And as to your last thought, how we gain new understandings: I find that to be one of the best parts of WP. It's not really comparable to your work, but I learned a lot about musical acoustics while rewriting Mute (music), even dipping my toes into the "rigorous scholarship" sector of that field. For an upcoming article brass acoustics I'll probably have to relearn the differential equations and other fancy math involved... shucks, I'm just a high school kid! :) Thanks again for your work. Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 21:42, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Ovinus Sorry, no, you are not just a high school kid, you are an amazing, rare and wonderful high school kid! You just keep on keeping on - you'll pass me one day.   Jenhawk777 (talk) 06:36, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

March flowerEdit


Thank you for reviewing Bach's cantata composed for today, - perhaps listen. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:20, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the flowers! I somehow never thought to listen to the very cantata whose article I was reviewing... thank you for the idea. :) Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 05:24, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Would you mind supporting (or not) after changes? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:47, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: Done! Ovinus (talk) 09:21, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for what you said on Yoninah's talk, - see also Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2021-03-28/Obituary! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:28, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Many thanks for your helpEdit

  The Barnstar of Diligence
For completing reviews at FAC and copyediting the Armenian Genocide article. Your contributions do not go unnoticed. (t · c) buidhe 06:04, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@Buidhe:: Thank you for the kind words. After seeing the denial FAC I had to learn more—I had no idea Turkey denies the existence of the atrocities. If you do go forward with the ACR I hope to be there. Sometimes I have to pause and realize that what you write, what we write, what I review, is basically that topic's "face" to much of the English-speaking world. So it oughta be good, and thank you for ensuring that. :) Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 07:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC)