User talk:Imzadi1979/Archive 3

Active discussions
Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5 Archive 9

Increasing portal visibility on Wikipedia

Since you've stated to have an interest in portals, particularly the Michigan highways portal, just letting you know that I've started a new discussion with a specific focus upon increasing portal visibility on the portal discussion page here: Wikipedia talk: Portal - Ideas to increase portal visibility. — Northamerica1000(talk) 02:18, 20 November 2011 (UTC)


Imzadi, could you look back in here please? I'm unclear if you're saying that you think I'm not in a position to close the FAC, considering my prose comments on the FAC. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:00, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

The Tridge

Hi Imzadi, Please take a look. Thanks. 7&6=thirteen () 20:01, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

I looked and edited to refine the article back to its subject. Imzadi 1979  01:22, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for helping. I knew you would be critical and diligent. I understand your narrow focus, but I do think that the other Y-bridges/tri-bridges provide context. 7&6=thirteen () 01:26, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
If you were using them for context though, you'd be comparing/contrasting them with the subject. As it is, that content was appropriate to a separate article, not this one. Imzadi 1979  01:27, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
If you were hoping to expand the article for DYK, or something else, bulleted lists do not count towards page expansion at DYK, only written prose. They don't count templates, image captions, tables, lists or references, just actual paragraph writing. By their rules, there were 1312 B (224 words) "readable prose size" before you started revising the article the other day. When I first looked at it tonight, it had 3020 B (523 words) "readable prose size" and now it has 2717 B (456 words) "readable prose size" according to the Page size tool. You'd need 6,560 B or about 1,120 words, so you weren't even halfway there with all of that cruft on the other bridges that didn't belong in the article. Imzadi 1979  01:38, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Well remembered!

Well done for remembering that you set up a JL-Bot recognised content sweep for WikiProject UK Roads! That looks quite neat now. I might just tweak the columns as I don't think there's enough content to warrant 3. I've also noticed that the assessment page is listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject UK road/Assessment and not Wikipedia:WikiProject UK Roads/Assessment, where it should be as a sub-page - can this page just be moved without screwing anything else up you think? Thanks again, Zangar (talk) 22:56, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I didn't create that page, but I agree, and I moved it. The old name redirects there, and I'll see about any clean up we might need. As for the columns, the RC page is also transcluded on WP:HWY along with the matching pages for USRD, CRWP and HWY. Imzadi 1979  23:10, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification

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Wow, that was fast, I just updated, and was going to change the redirect...--UnQuébécois (talk) 02:39, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Unethcial beheavor at the FAC

This edit is unacceptable, and I have opposed your FAC on account of it. As I said there, I will not hesitate to bring it up on AN/I and at the Signpost (where this will get mentioned if it's promoted). You should be thankful that no one blocked you for this, because I know a number of admins that would do just that without a second thought. Sven Manguard Wha? 03:44, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

From an admin's POV, the comment above doesn't sit well with me for several reasons. First of all, this is common practice in more "structured" discussions nowadays, like RFA and FAC. Delegates have frequently complained about the problem of endless discussions taking over the page. Also, supposing your charges are true, I thought blocks were supposed to be preventative, not punitive. And this Signpost campaign basically amounts to libel and a "smear campaign", which, even if not breaking Wikipedia guidelines, is certainly unethical in itself. --Rschen7754 04:17, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't think that pointing out that a Featured Article was promoted despite concerns about ethical violations in the candidacy process is unethical. I think that the changes that lead to the concerns being raised were unethical. Imzadi1979 didn't collapse the discussion, he removed the comments, inserted something new, but left the other users signatures in, attached to the new text. If you, as an admin, don't see a problem with someone doing that, well that dosen't sit well with me for several reasons. Sven Manguard Wha? 09:37, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
If you really think ethical violations are going on, you're in the wrong place here: you should be knocking on the doors of the other FAC delegates (such as Raul654), who can actually do something about the matter. Putting a POINT-y oppose on a FAC just causes people to fight against each other and gets little accomplished. Putting something on ANI or the Signpost will just cause a big dramafest; you know that as well as I do. And you also know that any block of Imzadi1979 for this will be highly controversial and will likely be reverted (not by me, of course). --Rschen7754 09:43, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
There's nothing pointy in opposing a FAC based on an analysis of its perceived failure to meet FAC criteria. There's something very pointy and morally bankrupt about removing an opposition comment because you do not agree with it. It's very very shoddy behaviour. By all means collapse the ensuing dramafest - something which, you'll note, I did not join in. But removing the original post? What the fuck? --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:03, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Help with Edit

On the List of highways numbered 19A page, I attempted to put the sign for U.S. 19 Alternate on the page, but it didn't work right.

Could you help, please?

Thank you,

Allen (talk) 03:33, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Done. You needed to use File:Alternate plate.svg, not File:File:Alternate plate.svg and insert the line break (<br/>). Imzadi 1979  03:36, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. I feel like an idiot for mistyping the "File:File:". However, I still didn't know how to correctly do that.
Thanks, again, for your extremely helpful advice!
Allen (talk) 04:05, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Could You Help Me With my Wikipedia Book?


Could you help me to correct the errors in my Wikipedia book?

I wanted to have a link to every Interstate and U.S. highway that has, does, or will exist in it. However, I don't have the links correct.

If you could help me, that would be great!

Allen (talk) 04:08, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

M-6 and M-185

Hi Imzadi1979. I always help when needed but I have already a lot of articles to translate, including those where I really get a knowledge. However, I've add a couple of thing on the M-6 article (sorry for that silly stub) and I can ask for a translator if you want (even if the translation task force isn't really important in contributors). Regards. Like tears in rain (talk) 09:50, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

It's ok, but I noticed that the M-6 article is kind of wrong. The first segment of the highway opened to traffic on November 20, 2001. Yes, the whole thing wasn't completed and opened until 2004, but there was a segment that opened earlier. Imzadi 1979  03:26, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

U.S. Route 14 in Wisconsin's Bannered Routes Section

Thank you for correcting the section that I mentioned. I don't have lots of time to edit articles the way I would like, so I try to do what I can.

However, thank you for putting better "touches" to that section.

Relying on you (and other talented Wikipedians) for help,

Allen (talk) 02:04, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

New Page Patrol survey

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Could You Help Me With my Wikipedia Book?


Could you help me to improve my Wikipedia book, User:Morriswa/Books/Highways?

I want to have a link to every Interstate and U.S. Highway that has ever existed, currently does exist, or may ever exist in the future, including unsigned and controversial ones.

If you can't help me, could you pass it along to anyone else?

Thank you for all of your help (here and throughout Wikipedia,

Allen (talk) 23:01, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

WP:FOUR for U.S. Route 2 in Michigan

  Four Award
Congratulations! You have been awarded the Four Award for your work from beginning to end on U.S. Route 2 in Michigan. TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:15, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:15, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Illinois Tollway oasis GAR

Can you tell me who was notified about Talk:Illinois Tollway oasis/GA2. I follow WT:CHICAGO and have seen no notification.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:50, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

sorry about that (Guam Highway 1)

I'm still learning wiki and having a problem learning linking to a specific article. Thanks for clearing up the territory link on Guam Highway 1 Sprinkler21 (talk) 04:48, 27 December 2011 (UTC)Sprinkler21

Let's jump in feet first

Seems as though your new years road plan has just been sped up, Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:Infobox Australian road. -- WOSlinker (talk) 11:32, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Re:Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas to you too! Dough4872 01:01, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

From me as well, and happy New Year in the meantime. Hope it's the best year yet for you and yours :) Juliancolton (talk) 19:18, 1 January 2012 (UTC)


I responded on my talk page. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:45, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Alexander the Great edition triple laurel crown

Your majesty, I am pleased to award the coveted Alexander the Great edition triple laurel crown to Imzadi1979. This special award recognizes the rare editor who contributes at least 15 pieces of Featured content, 15 Good articles, and 15 "Did you know?" entries. Thank you for your contributions to the project! SMasters (talk) 16:46, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


Thanks for letting me know about that thing about NC 540. By the way your user page looks great. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:23, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Can you make me a sign?

Hello, I would like a Interstate North Carolina 40 sign. This would be great.

Thanks, -- (talk) 21:43, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


Just spotted another infobox which I've added to your list. -- WOSlinker (talk) 20:20, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Look through an article

I saw that you looked through Lake Shore Drive Bridge (Michigan) and fixed some things up, and I was wondering if there were any similar issues in Eagle River Timber Bridge. Thanks. Chris857 (talk) 22:34, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, especially for noticing the material parameter. Of course a timber bridge is built of wood! Chris857 (talk) 23:43, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Highway or Street?

Hello Imzadi1979! Can you please explain me the difference between a Highway and street? I am asking this in reference to your edits at Seventh Avenue (Islamabad). --SMS Talk 03:10, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

A highway is a major arterial that is part of a highway system. They are typically interregional roadways. While highway systems include shorter connectors, highways do typically leave their city of origin. Imzadi 1979  03:20, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
Actually I was following typically the wiki Article on Highways and thought this avenue (being a signal free, 3 lane road on each side and having service roads) might be a highway, but considering your experience on Highway articles I agree with you. Thanks for replying! --SMS Talk 04:16, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Northern Territory Outback Tracks

Hi. Can you please be EXTREMELY EXTREMELY EXTREMELY careful when making edits to change template change from Outback Roads to USA road article boxes? I don't think you've driven on Northern Territory roads… but some of the information in the road box can possibly be an issue of life or death. If a road needs a permit or not is extremely important: It makes it possible for authorities to know if people have gone missing because of treacherous road conditions. Knowing where service stations and facilities are is also important. The area is extremely, extremely remote in places, where it can be a two to three hour drive from one town of 100 to another town of 100 people. The Australian government in some places pays people to live in isolated remote areas in order to maintain service stations so road travellers have access to petrol. If you miss a service station, it isn't a case of another one in five or ten miles, it could be a case of 100 to 200 miles. Many of these roads are unpaved and require four wheel drive. (And people have died on these roads after getting bogged and not knowing how to use the 4WD.) So yes, please be careful when changing these templates and explain the rationale before doing it. Australian users are probably very willing to help you if you have questions about our roads. --LauraHale (talk) 10:57, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

As an aside, no one should ever rely on the information in Wikipedia for life & death situations. Even if the information in an article was correct at the time it was edited, there is no guarantee that it would still be correct when someone comes to view it 1 year later on for example. -- WOSlinker (talk) 12:53, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Correct; see Wikipedia:Medical disclaimer and WP:NOTGUIDE. --Rschen7754 08:03, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
See also Wikipedia:Risk disclaimer, specifically "The authors may not be qualified to provide you with complete information or to inform you about adequate safety precautions and other measures to prevent injury, or other damage to your person, property or reputation. If you need specific advice (for example, medical, legal, financial, marital or risk management) please seek a professional licensed or knowledgeable in that area." Imzadi 1979  13:05, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

  The Editor's Barnstar
You have shown lots of knowledge in the "finer" issues of Wikipedia editing. Allen (talk) 11:34, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Dabfix Edits

Imzadi1979, I apologize for "screwing" up Interstate 3 and Interstate 4. I didn't realize that it was going to do what it did. Thank you for correcting my mistake. Allen (talk) 23:56, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

It's more like the tool moved the ToC and added that template at the bottom for no reason... Imzadi 1979  00:26, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Crowley's Ridge Parkway

Hey, I have been working on Crowley's Ridge Parkway's junction list in my text editor, but I wasn't sure how to tackle it. For instance, how would you indicate when the route jumps from a county road to a state highways as state maintenance begins in the middle of pavement? Would you just mark it as a concurrency? Do you know where any examples exist that I could model this route after? I really want to get it done and maybe that will spur someone to make the shield for the route. Thanks. Brandonrush Woo pig sooie 04:21, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Take look at River Road Scenic Byway. I didn't use the concurrency colors because all three junctions on that table would be concurrency termini since the RR NSB is either concurrent with M-65 or the county road called River Road. Imzadi 1979  04:26, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
P.S. {{Infobox road}} has the |tourist= parameter in it now since it was added to accommodate New Zealand articles. If you looked at very many Michigan articles, you'd see that it's used only for National Scenic Byways, the state's Heritage Routes and the Great Lakes Circle Tours. You can always add a link to Crowley's Ridge Parkway to the various highways that carry the NSB. M-65 (Michigan highway) has such as link. U.S. Route 2 in Michigan has several items listed, with and without links as appropriate. Imzadi 1979  09:52, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Upper Peninsula

You may dismiss as "trivial" that "Based on total area, Ahmeek, Michigan holds the distinction of being the largest incorporated community, in the largest county (Keweenaw County, 5,965.96 square miles (water and land; Marquette County). However, if the category geographical oddities of the United States ever comes up in Jeopardy, the fault will be yours alone. Cheers. 7&6=thirteen () 17:42, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

And St. Louis County, Minnesota is larger than Keweenaw County at 6,859.91 square miles (17,767.1 km2) total area; its county seat is Duluth. Only an odd reading of "east of the Mississippi River" would discount a county east of the river in a state that straddles the river. Imzadi 1979  17:49, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
To ask the question is to answer it. Different question. In your example, neither the state nor the county is 'east of the Mississippi.' Q.E.D.. 7&6=thirteen () 19:01, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
St. Louis County is east of the river. Actually, Aroostook County, Maine, is even a bit larger at 6,828.79 square miles (17,686.5 km2). Being the "largest in the largest in the largest" is about one level of triviality more than is needed in that article. Now, if you wanted to mention that Keweenaw County has the highest proportion of water area of any county in the US (over 90%) in the UP article, a fact listed in the county's article, that might be possible. Imzadi 1979  19:04, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Alternate route shields

What would be the policy for creating or cleaning up an article for a highway that is never signed as itself? A few highways that I know of are signed as different routes, but never the actual route. An example would be LA 3280, which is not signed as LA 3280 at all, but is actually LA 15/US 165 BUS, which is actually signed. It might not be the best cluster of shields, but for someone actually using the route, they would never see LA 3280, only LA 15/US 165 BUS. Mcdonaat (talk) 08:02, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

That sounds like M-13 Connector (Michigan highway), which is signed as "TO I-75/US 23" southbound and "TO M-13" northbound. I've got the infobox showing its marker though, because that's still the name it carries. You might want to post the question at WT:USRD as well for a wider range of input. Imzadi 1979  08:10, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

List of State Roads in Florida / Other "Projects"

For me, the task of cleaning up the list of state roads in Florida is a bit "over the top". So, I will leave it in your capable hands. Besides, you did a great job with last night's edits anyway.

Do you know of any other "projects" with which I can get involved -- especially road pages? I want to help Wikipedia be the best encyclopedia it can be, and I really enjoy editing road articles.

Thank you for your advice and help.

Allen (talk) 11:02, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, you can carry on where I left off. I have very little interest in Florida's articles beyond trying to spur or shame editors into caring and taking action. The standard joke has been that USRD needs a hurricane to come through and swipe the articles about Florida's roadways off the website so they can be restarted from scratch with an eye towards quality. In the grand scheme of things, the state highway articles are more important than the county road articles, yet the editor base keeps arguing to retain CR articles that don't pass the General Notability Guideline. The state highways are the meat of the projects with CRs as the icing on the cake.
Florida needs an editor that will do what needs to be done, but that isn't me. I have plenty with Michigan to do. M-553 (Michigan highway) is at WP:HWY/ACR to be reviewed for promotion to A-Class, and I have several other articles that I'm preparing for promotion up the assessment scale. Combined with the work I try to do for the WikiProject, I don't have time to focus on Florida.
Now, if you just keep on with the list, implementing the manual formatting I started, then you should be able to merge the lists back together. (Since you split them, you should fix that.) The only thing is that three-digit markers (10A, 123 etc.) should be sized at 25px. I'm still in the Upper Peninsula from my mid-winter holiday trip, so I have to work on articles from this area, like M-553, while I have access to the local libraries. Imzadi 1979  20:18, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

County Road 210 (St. Johns County, Florida)

Would you mind holding off on the proposed deletion of County Road 210 (St. Johns County, Florida)? I'd like to redirect it onto a new List of county roads in St. Johns County, Florida that's currently in my sandbox. I'll try to get done with it by January 23, if real life doesn't get in the way. ----DanTD (talk) 13:42, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

No, I won't "hold off" on the deletion. If you object to the deletion, the instructions for doing so are in the template on the article. Imzadi 1979  19:22, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Guess I'll just have to work on this a little faster. ----DanTD (talk) 21:09, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
And if you're merging this into a list in your sandbox, even if it's deleted, you can recreated the link as a redirect. Imzadi 1979  21:13, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Well then I might do that if I don't get the list done in time, although I still prefer to finish the list first. Thanks for the tip. ----DanTD (talk) 21:17, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
UPDATE   Done. Although with so few county roads in that county, perhaps that list should be converted Rockland County-style. ----DanTD (talk) 13:52, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Declined Prod

I was disheartened to discover that you removed the PROD on Ring Roads in Singapore. The "general references" were to the top landing page of said site and in no way are relevant to the article. Because of your attack of pique, we now have to go through the longer process of AfD for the article when obviously it is not appropriate for inclusion. Than you for making a point. Hasteur (talk) 23:21, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

A few questions

Hey. I was wondering how you determined the destination city for use in the major intersections table, and is having a city (i. e. using |city1=) recommended even for minor two-lane roads as well as limited-access roads? Also in the lead of Arkansas highway articles, since they are not technically called things like Arkansas Highway 28, should the lead still be Arkansas Highway 28 (AR 28, Hwy. 28), or Highway 28 (AR 28, Hwy. 28), or maybe Highway 28 (AR 28 and Hwy. 28)? Thank you, Brandonrush Woo pig sooie 01:08, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, MDOT puts destination (control) cities at junctions. Others will disagree with it, but for consistency, I use them on all junctions. Other editors only use them on freeway articles if the BGSs list control cities. As for the lead sentence, use the actual name of the road, even if that doesn't match the article title. The parentheses around the abbreviation(s) don't get boldfacing, nor do any commas. Imzadi 1979  01:10, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I usually use what's on the signs at the intersections, that is if I can read them in Street View. If you look at Missouri, you'll find that all the state highways are at Missouri Route X, but the first sentence and the infobox say Route X. I don't see that as a problem in Arkansas. –Fredddie
Okay, thank you both. I think I will start converting page leads to Highway X (AR X, Hwy. X). Should I also include Ark. X, it used just as frequently as the other two? Brandonrush Woo pig sooie 01:46, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Up to you, but if it's just as frequent, probably. Imzadi 1979  01:53, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


Would have perfered a heads-up before moving one of my userboxes to a standardized location. Not that I would have had a problem with it's move, it's just a courtesy thing. Please try that in the future. - NeutralhomerTalk • 07:42, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

  The Good Article Barnstar
Thanks Imzadi1979 for helping to promote M-84 (Michigan highway) to Good Article status. Please accept this little sign of appreciation and goodwill from me, because you deserve it. Keep it up, and give someone a pat on the back today. --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 23:11, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

RE: 3di Comment

Alright. Thanks!

Multi Trixes! (Talk - Me on Wikia) 20:44, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Reference in M-209 Article

Hi, Imzadi1979 (BTW, my wife and I got married on your 3rd birthday):

I thought you'd be interested in knowing that a reference in the Wiki article about Michigan Highway 209 is in the Internet Archive. I was going to edit it in the Reference section, but I don't how to do it, because there's only one word used for all references in that section. If you know how to do it, here's the web address for the article, "Early Modern Highways in Leelanau": Igo4U (talk) 22:40, 25 January 2012 (UTC)Igo4U

Thanks. The reason that there's only one word in the section is that {{reflist}} is the template that tells the server to insert the list of foonoted references there. The actual reference is up in infobox where the footnote is first used. I got the archived link added though, thank! Imzadi 1979  22:55, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Interstate 67?

What do you think of the new sections of "Interstate 67" on the William H. Natcher Parkway page? Are they legitimate edits? Can the Interstate 67 page be changed from a redirect (into an actual article)? Allen (talk) 02:25, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, it looks like an unambiguous copyright violation, so I removed it, all. The flyer used claims that I-67 would use US 131, but there are no plans in Michigan to add any additional Interstate designations, let alone any new freeways to connect Manton (the northern end of US 131's freeway) to Gaylord. It sounds like the fantasies of a chamber of commerce without any basis in reality. So, no, I wouldn't change anything. Imzadi 1979  02:34, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
I just found this: [1]. It is an article about a study for I-67. If this is a real thing, you just may have to undo your removal of the information. Also, it would have to be added to the I-67 page. Allen (talk) 02:45, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
I can't undo my removal: it's a copyright violation. In fact, the revisions were deleted for that reason. That link doesn't mention the Natcher Parkway though, so it doesn't go there. If anything, the current I-67 section could use expansion, but it doesn't warrant splitting yet. Imzadi 1979  02:50, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Sorry about that. It is getting a bit late for me (yawn). I didn't think I saw the Natcher Parkway, or any of the Kentucky parkways, for that matter. Currently, what do you think the I-67 section of the Future Interstate Highways page needs, in terms of expansion :Also, are there any other practical edits concerning I-67 and any other future (or possible future) highways? Allen (talk) 02:57, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Follow what the reliable sources say. Flyers from a chamber of commerce or advocacy group are primary sources so you should stick to the news media, because those groups propose a lot half-heartedly. If a DOT or FHWA doesn't get on board, there's no chance of something coming to pass, and at most, you get an article about "X group wants to build Y road". Imzadi 1979  03:03, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Florida State Roads

Do you know where I can get an official list of all current and former Florida state roads from the Florida DOT? I want to be more accurate with the List of State Roads in Florida page. Allen (talk) 00:35, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

No, I do not. MDOT doesn't publish such a thing for Michigan, and I doubt any other state does as well. Imzadi 1979  00:36, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
New York does. ----DanTD (talk) 15:46, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Which doesn't have all of the former designations, does it? Imzadi 1979  16:02, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
No, it doesn't. Although, the 1970 edition is online and it has former designations. I'm surprised other states don't have either a current or former state road list online. Maybe we're all just looking at the wrong links.----DanTD (talk) 18:45, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
State DOTs are rarely in the business of history, not when there are other sources for recording and disseminating it. MDOT publishes a Control Section Atlas periodically, and the old paper editions are in the Library of Michigan in Lansing. That library also has basically one copy of every road map that MDOT and its predecessor agencies published, none of which is online. Not everything has to be online to be useful; researchers did a lot of work in libraries before the Internet. Imzadi 1979  18:50, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
On January 26, I sent this e-mail to [2]:

Is there a way that I can get a list of all Florida State Roads (past, present, or future)?

I am trying to add the information into Wikipedia, but I need updated information.
Thank you for your help.
Today, I received the following reply:

We have contacted the DOT Statistics Office and the Surveying and Mapping Office in search of the information you requested, but neither of them have the information. You may wish to contact the two offices for additional information. The phone numbers for the two offices are:

Statistics Office 850-414-4848
Surveying & Mapping 850-245-1555
Huey S. Whitehead
FDOT Maps & Publications
Mail Station 12
605 Suwannee Street
Tallahassee, FL 32399-0450
Phone: 850-414-4050
Hours: 7:00 A.M - 3:30 P.M. M-F

Highway Templates

If the highway templates are deleted as this page shows, are there other navigational templates to replace them? Allen (talk) 18:15, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

There are no other navboxes to replace them. However, look at the bottom of of the infobox on Interstate 296. You'll see that there's a link to List of Interstate Highways in Michigan. Yes, it does mean that you have to click through another page to get to a full list of Interstates in the state, but it keeps from cluttering the bottom of the article with navboxes. There is also Category:Transportation in Kent County, Michigan as well as Category:Interstate Highways in Michigan. Similar provisions should be in place for other states. Imzadi 1979  18:26, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Queries related to road articles

Hello! I have some queries related to road/highway articles which I am asking you considering your experience on related articles:

  1. Can Google Maps (or Earth) be used as a reference for describing the location of a road?
  2. Can measurements of a road/highway taken from Google Maps (or Earth) be quoted here?

Can you please answer these? or direct me to relevant wiki page. Thanks! --SMS Talk 20:06, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

The short answer to both questions is yes, provisionally.
  1. Given that there are accuracy issues to some degree with most of the online mapping services, I use a two-source solution. For the "route description" section of a highway article, I use the relevant official DOT map and a link to Google Maps' hybrid satellite view. You get the advantage that the official DOT map carries the implied guarantee that the highway is located there, as well as the satellite photos of the general environment surrounding the roadway. For the Google Maps link, I generate driving directions from the one terminus to the other, moving the start and end points on the map as needed. I make sure that the map is showing the "hybrid" view, and finally I click the icon to get the link (shows as a chain icon) to copy and paste the URL into {{google maps}}.
  2. Yes, you can use the measurements for lengths from the mapping service. Note that Google Maps only expresses accuracy to the tenth of a mile, and Yahoo! Maps does to the hundredth. If you can find an official DOT source for length data, usually those are to the hundredth or thousandth of a mile. I had to use Google Earth though for Pierce Stocking Scenic Drive because it is a NPS-maintained roadway, and the National Park Service doesn't have any logs or maps with that information. MDOT's Physical Reference Finder online is good for the various state highways and even most county roads in Michigan, but not the PSSD.
I hope that helps! Imzadi 1979  20:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! that was certainly helpful. --SMS Talk 03:52, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Regarding the Google Maps issue, I tried to get one for U.S. Route 27 in Florida, but then directions it gave me included roads that had nothing to do with US 27. When I tried to make the proper adjustments, it gave me tons of U-turns that I can't delete. The link is hidden in the infobox right now. I'm not sure I can get an official FDOT source for any highways in the state though, but I'll try. ----DanTD (talk) 15:43, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
I don't know what you were doing, but that link you had there was for US 19. Now I regenerated the citation, but shouldn't you be using an FDOT source for the length? Either way, the trick is to understand that Google will differentiate between carriageways on a divided highway, and plot the U-turns accordingly.
What I do is to pick the cities closest to the desired termini, and plot driving directions. Then I zoom in on one terminus and move the A or the B marker to the desired intersection. Then I scroll along the way, dragging the blue line over to the desired highway as I go. (Google loves to use adjacent freeways.) When I get to the other end, I move that terminus as needed, and make any last adjustments. Then I switch from "map" to "satellite" view, and click the link icon. Last, I copy/paste that URL into {{google maps|url=|title=|accessdate=}} in the article. Imzadi 1979  19:11, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

USRD WikiProject Newsletter, Winter 2012

Hi. I am not interested in this newsletter. Please remove me from your posting list. Thanks. My name is Mercy11 (talk) 14:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC), and I approve this message.

Unless you subscribed to it previously (which you didn't) then you're not on the subscription list. This issue went out to everyone connected to the project as a membership roll call so that we can update the Participants List. You might be interested to note though that the Puerto Rico Task Force has been formed. Imzadi 1979  14:30, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Look, I don't care what you call it, fact is: you posted something in my page that is out of my league, you clearly appear to have every intention of posting such things on my page periodically, and I am asking you to stop it. Now, you can either stop it, and we leave it there, or ignore my request and continue to post it, which I will consider harrassment. The decision is yours. My name is Mercy11 (talk) 14:45, 6 February 2012 (UTC), and I approve this message.
Wait a minute. You've expressed an interest in Puerto Rican highways articles, and we've recognized that interest. All current and potential project members were sent this issue of the newsletter, and unless people put their names on the subscription list, they'll never receive another one. We wanted to do a roll call to see who in the project is still active and interested, combined with those who may be interested that weren't on the list. We had an issue of the newsletter coming out which explained some big changes (almost 50 new task forces including ones for the territories, etc), so it only seemed natural to combine the roll call with the newsletter. You posted on my talk page, and I've replied. As it says at the top of my talk page, "If you leave me a message: I will answer on my talk page, then place {{talkback|Imzadi1979}} on your talk." That's all I have done, so to call that harassment is a bit much, and not my intent at all. No offense was intended, and I had hoped that you'd be pleased to know about the PR task force. Imzadi 1979  14:53, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Since when have newsletters been harassment? That's a very strong accusation to make. --Rschen7754 19:49, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

This page makes you look very famous.

I have no idea what this tilde thing means but here:

TooFolkGR (talk) 18:59, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Question about Rte 86:

How is it correct to list Rte 86 between Rte 192 and Rte 193, when the route number was changed decades ago? Is this some Wiki convention I'm unaware of? Sincerely, --Triskele Jim (talk) 18:15, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

New York State Route 192A redirects to New York State Route 86. If a reader clicks on the NY 192A link in the NY 192 article, they shouldn't be "stranded" at NY 86... the browsers at the bottom of the infobox should create a continuous chain. Imzadi 1979  18:24, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
That's okay for Rte 192, but this is Rte 86. Also, I can see having redirect pages for obsolete route numbers, for someone doing historical research or looking at an old map, but why should the chain include obsolete route numbers?--Triskele Jim (talk) 18:29, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
The chain includes all numbers though. Since NY 192A has been merged to NY 86, the infobox and the browser needs to reflect that. Imzadi 1979  18:33, 10 February 2012 (UTC)


  GA Award
Thank you for helping to promote M-36 (Michigan highway) to GA status. You effort is greatly appreciated! --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 02:04, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

  The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
You work super hard to make the U.S. Roads articles be really great and useful! Allen (talk) 03:29, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Sinking of the RMS Titanic FAC comments

Apologies, I had completely missed your comments - I'd been looking on the article talk page and the FAC page, but hadn't realised that you'd posted something to the FAC talk page as well (you seem to be the only person to have done so!). I've addressed most of them but have a couple of outstanding queries for you; could you please take a look? Prioryman (talk) 09:58, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

HCTRA Shields

Thanks for doing that! The new ones are lovely =) ♠PMC(talk) 10:35, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Kolkata and Chennai FARs

Hi Imzadi - If you have some time, would you mind returning to your "delist" vote at the Kolkata FAR? Quite a bit of work has been done on the article, and it would be great to get your further comments on this. Also, an editor has responded to your concerns at the Chennai FAR - if you have further comments there it would be great to see them. Thank you very much for the reviewing you do at FAR - it's always good to see you around! Dana boomer (talk) 12:38, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

National Highway System

Thanks for the note. I have clarified my comment re the National Highway System (United States) article. PeterEastern (talk) 13:54, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

  The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
You are a terrific editor! Have one from me! Vensatry (Ping me) 06:39, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Undoing an IP User's Edits

User: made some edits to the List of State Roads in Florida. I don't know if the edits are correct, but I think they may need to be undone. Do I need to do that? Should I do that? What do you think? Thank you for your help. Allen (talk) 22:03, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

You need to determine the best course of action. Do a quick check to see if the information the IP user added or changed seems correct. If it is, then you might still revise their changes to fit the formatting of the rest of the page. The IP might have used a hyphen instead of a dash, which isn't a big deal, just fix it, or they might not have used a conversion template. Again, if the information seems correct, go with it and improve the formatting or wording as needed. Imzadi 1979  22:07, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Kolkata FARC

Hi! All the points that you raised have been addressed, except one. The location of publishers of newspaper—this has become a problem, especially for pan-Indian newspapers. Please see the FARC for detailed discussion on this, we need to make a strategy for this. Locations of publishers of all book sources have been updated. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 23:02, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Ok, we have decided to add location of all newspaper sources to maintain consistency. This will be done shortly. Will inform you and update in FARC when done. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 04:27, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
I've got the FARC page on my watch list, so there's no need to ping my talk page each time you edit it. Imzadi 1979  04:28, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Passenger Pigeon

You've had good ideas in the past. Please take a look. I've put in links and sources, and it is a better article than it was. It just got promoted to a "B". Thanks. 7&6=thirteen () 12:43, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Why (and I'll leave it at that)?

Why did you remove Category:U.S. Route 10 from Minnesota State Highway 210? I've seen more than one occasion of this, so I thought it was okay. Allen (talk) 00:48, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I put the U.S. Route 210 redirect into the category instead. If at some point a separate article is spun out at that title, the state highway wouldn't be appropriate in the category. 00:51, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

New Mexico highways

Hi. I was wondering, since I have seen you edit numerous highway related pages, if you could take a look at New Mexico State Road 1. The link that I changed was part of the template formatting. It was a red link before, since I-25 Business is a disambig. page. I solved the DAB issue and now no I-25 shield is present for the north end location. Also, there are many NM highway pages with dead links. Thanks for your help, there!

Regards, Tinton5 (talk) 06:15, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

The solution for that was simple: {{jct|state=NM|BL|25|dab1=Socorro}}. The type code of BL (or BS for business spurs) handles Interstate Business Loops, and the dab1= tells it what specific city to use for disambiguation. (It uses the state from the first part to complete the link). As for the rest of that article, it needs to be rewritten in a south-to-north direction to follow WP:USRD/STDS. Imzadi 1979  06:49, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
So simple. Thank you. Now, how come U.S. Route 66 is a category for that page? Whereas no content given in the article refers to the route being part of Route 66? I mean, all I see is that it follows U.S. Route 85, and there is no category for that. Tinton5 (talk) 07:01, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
There's a hidden note down near the categories that one alignment for US 66 used what is now SR 1 in the area. I removed the stub template for the US Highways because that's normally used to categorize stubs on articles specifically about US Highways. A side note, but the dab method I showed you in my last reply also works for US-Bus for US Highway business routes and other type codes. Just insert the location used to dab the link, or in the case of M-144 (1936-1940 Michigan highway), the years. Imzadi 1979  07:07, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Interstate 95 in South Carolina Gateway

Maybe it's just the computers I've been using, but ever since this update, for Interstate 95 in South Carolina I haven't been able to see the image for the Gateway to South Carolina. It was replaced by a red-X, although clicking on the image itself works out. ----DanTD (talk) 13:09, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) The diff you linked, the previous diff, and current versions all work just fine on my end. Try purging the page. –Fredddie 17:02, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
I just did. I still only see the red X. ----DanTD (talk) 22:42, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Try opening this link: and then bypass your cache. That usually works for me. –Fredddie 23:25, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

County Road Question

Can you please shed some light on the conversation at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Roads#Future articles? You are more well versed on this topic than I am. Allen (talk) 23:20, 10 March 2012 (UTC)


Did you look at the March 7 comments on my talk page? --ClemRutter (talk) 10:29, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Infobox road request

Further to my new request at Template talk:Infobox road. I looked back at the original discussion in detail. I now understand what you meant by first tier and second tier municipalities. Alberta's Ministry of Municipal Affairs determines that towns, villages, and summer villages are second tier to specialized and rural municipalities by virtue of this document. Note that each town, village, and summer village is listed under the respective specialized or rural municipality.

Also note that cities are not listed under any specialized or rural municipality. As such, they would be at the equivalent tier as specialized and rural municipalities. Hwy43 (talk) 05:54, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Photo concerns

You may also want to check out the photo in Farm to Market Road 1709. Dough4872 18:26, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Changes to "Decommissioned highway"

Could you take a look at the recent changes to Decommissioned highway? The user mentioned that there used to be a different US 8 than the current one, and a different US 46 (in Colorado of all places) than the current one. Also, could you just review the rest of the edits? Allen (talk) 00:14, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

I got it. US 8 was only in California for the Back to the Future movies, and US 46 has never been in Colorado, so I removed them both. The rest of the edits weren't bad per se, so I kept those. –Fredddie 00:42, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Interstate 570 (Missouri)?

Can you take a look at Interstate 570 (Missouri)? Is it a true designation? Or, is the author (not me!) pulling our legs? Allen (talk) 19:46, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

You know, you can ask at WT:USRD or Google stuff. According to [3], there is a proposal. I would look to see if I could find some newspaper articles on or other news-related search engines to confirm that, but there is an article linked from that webpage from the Jefferson City News-Tribune confirming it too. In short, the article needs to be fixed up to standards. I would like you to try to fix it up. AARoads/Interstate Guide can't be directly used as a source though. Imzadi 1979  01:29, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Still active in the African Highway section

الله يكون معك

Are you still active in the African Highway Project? I recently updated quite a bit on the Moroccan expressway pages: updated data on completed roads (such as the Fes–Oujda expressway and created the Rabat Ringroad. If you have any time could you assist in updating Société Nationale des Autoroutes du Maroc. Although there had been some edits in 2010 and 2011 many of the information on the page was from 2008. As you can see on the Talk page I did update the information on the projects but not on company information. The ADM website no longer has proper English version, but maybe you can have a look at the Arab or French website and check if the general company information is up to date. Once you have completed that feel free to remove the Outdated template I placed there. Greetings. Tonkie (talk) 02:20, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

I've limited most of my non-US, non-Canadian work to watching the new article lists to tag and assess the new articles that are created now. I have tried to keep the WikiProject Highways' task force pages for the continents up to date and looking good. I do some work related to the infoboxes and very basic formatting. That's about it, sorry. Sorry, that's about all I can offer you. Imzadi 1979  02:40, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
No problems. As I'm European myself and only 'up to date' with developments in Morocco my participation is limited to that country: I was just trying (think you were at the top in the 'member-list'). Anyway: thanks for any input you do make on the articles 'far from home'. Cheerrs, Tonkie (talk) 19:01, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm up top just because I created all of the task force pages. Imzadi 1979  21:34, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Kolkata FAR

Hi Imzadi! It would be much appreciated if you could return to your comments at the Kolkata FAR and check if they have been fully addressed. User:Dwaipayanc has been doing some great work on this FAR, as well as the other Indian ones on the page (hint, hint, you might want to take a look! :). Thanks in advance, Dana boomer (talk) 13:59, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

DYK Nomination for Farm to Market Road 24

Thanks for that,
Awardgive, the editor with the msitaken name. 20:45, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

GA for H-58

Just as the title says. Congrats on yet another GA.
Awardgive, the editor with the msitaken name. 03:55, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

List of highways numbered 383

Why did you revert my edits? Allen (talk) 01:31, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Because you don't listen to what other editors have to say about the edits and keep doing the opposite; thus, other editors lose patience and just revert the whole thing. --Rschen7754 01:36, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
{{Jct}} uses abbreviations. Disambiguation pages like that shouldn't use abbreviations, and instead should only use the full links. Additionally, DAB pages can't have multiple links per line. Imzadi 1979  01:42, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Please forgive me for sounding stupid, but what does that last part ("DAB pages can't have multiple links per line") have to do with the page? Allen (talk) 01:59, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
That page is a disambiguation (DAB) page. It serves to list all highways numbered 383 to differentiate between them. The only link on each line of a DAB page is supposed to be the link to the specific article. You don't link the state name if you have "M-28 is the longest state highway in Michigan" as the entry on List of highways numbered 28. You don't link a region, city or county either. You only link the possible subject articles so our readers are directed to the proper subjects. You also linked to the Kansas state-detail article for US 383 when you should have linked to the national article name. ({{jct|country=USA|US|383}} works to produce   US 383 for instance.) In short, that edit broke the rules for DAB pages and it had to be reverted. Imzadi 1979  02:18, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Georgia State Route 223

Can you tell me what you think of this new article? Allen (talk) 01:38, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

  • It's an unreferenced stub, so it needs references. It also needs more sections.
  • The infobox has too many alternate names. If they don't apply to the whole road, they don't belong in the infobox. Infoboxes should be streamlined and compact.
  • Maps should have a caption (|map_notes=) in the infobox, especially when the map doesn't show the whole state.
  • The commas after the {{jct}} in the infobox are incorrect and should be removed.
  • Counties in the infobox?
  • Does GDOT include the state name in the official name of its highways? If it doesn't, you shouldn't in the prose either.
  • The word abbreviated isn't needed in the lead sentence, the parentheses take care of that for you.
  • The length is mis-formatted. {{convert|29.3|mi|km|adj=mid|-long}} produces the properly done " 29.3-mile-long (47.2 km)". If you're not using the word "long", use |adj=on in the template.
  • The list of street names in the lead is boring and out of place. Make sure that they're all mentioned in the RD as your writing describes the route of the highway from end to the other.
  • After the initial mention of the abbreviation convention "State Route 223 (SR 223)", you should be using the abbreviation each time. That means you need to pipe the links each time. Not abbreviating them, and leaving the state name in, makes the article cumbersome to read.
  • For 29.3 miles, I'd expect a RD section at least double that length. (See M-553 (Michigan highway) for what I mean.) Dough4872 (talk · contribs) would comment that the physical surroundings aren't described in the section.
  • Street names don't need to be enclosed in quotation marks.
  • The Fort Gordon section is one (1!) sentence long. Expand that, or merge it someplace else. It not should not be a full section on its own.
  • Even if you don't have the resources to create a history section, you should be able to create a junction list table. After all, you created a junction list in the infobox.
  • No portal links? I realize that many of our articles lack them, but this is a new emphasis, and easy to do consistently in our articles with a little effort.
  • No external links?
  • No "Category:Transportation in X County, Georgia" at the bottom? If the transportation category doesn't exist, you can use the county category too.
That's what I think. It's a start, but it's not a Start-Class article even. It needs more work. Imzadi 1979  02:08, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
I started the edits, but I need to get to sleep. However, I have some questions:
What did you mean by "Counties in the infobox?" and "Does GDOT include the state name in the official name of its highways? If it doesn't, you shouldn't in the prose either."?
Did I abbreviate road designations correctly?
What did you mean by "For 29.3 miles, I'd expect a RD section at least double that length. (See M-553 (Michigan highway) for what I mean.) Dough4872 (talk · contribs) would comment that the physical surroundings aren't described in the section."? I looked at the MI highway, but didn't quite see what you were talking about.
Please don't think I'm stupid, but I don't want to do this incorrectly: How do I start a correct junction list table?
Again, thank you for helping me make this a better article. After I am finished, I will use my new-found knowledge to further edit articles. Allen (talk) 04:04, 1 April 2012 (UTC)


  • Add |counties= to the infobox. Add links to the county articles, piped so that only the county name appears. The county portion of the name is redundant to the label and should be dropped, so Marquette, not Marquette County. That helps locate the highway in the state.
  • If I'm not mistaken, this road is officially called State Route 223 by GDOT. In other words, the state name is not a part of the official name. The article might be titled "Georgia State Route 223", but that doesn't mean the roadway is. If that is the case, then nowhere should I read "Georgia State Route 223" (or any other number) in the prose. Instead, if the full name is used, it should just be "State Route 223". WP:USSH agrees with my understanding, so the extra "Georgia"s in prose need to go.
  • Kinda. The first sentence already establishes the SR=State Route abbreviation convention. You don't need to spell out the full names of other state routes, you can just use the abbreviation, even the first time with another number. "US 78/U.S. Route 278 (US 278)/SR 10/" just looks bad because you have one abbreviated highway name followed by an unabbreviated name, and the parentheses interrupts things needlessly. (If the first time you mention a US Highway is in a concurrency, you have two options. The first is that you can mention a US Highway in the lead someplace without its concurrent state route, allowing you to only mention the one road. The second is to spell out both highways with the slash and put the abbreviation for both after them like U.S. Route 221 / State Route 47 (US 221/SR 47)".
  • M-553 is mile miles shorter, but it has two paragraphs the length of your article's RD, and a third that covers some meta information (traffic counts/AADT, National Highway System status, maintaining agency). Dough is famous (infamous?) around the project for asking for additional details about the physical environment (surroundings) in RD sections in GAN reviews. You haven't described the terrain around the highway at all. The RD sections should be proportional to the length of the road itself, although some shorter roadways need even more details to bulk them up a bit, and some longer highways will have less details to keep from being too long. It's a dance, but I'd expect to see more for 29.3 miles, like at least two, if not three, paragraphs just on the route.
  • The junction lists can be built using {{jcttop}}, {{jctint}} and {{jctbtm}}. The first template creates the top of the table, and the third ends the table. The second template is used for each line of the table, and it is repeated as many times as needed. There should be a row for each junction with another state highway (Interstate, US Highway or State Route) at a minimum. The first time you use jctint, you have to define what county that junction is in, and set how many rows that county spans (|cspan=) so that the box in that column covers enough rows. That first row also has to define the location and how many rows the location spans. If the junction is in a spot that isn't incorporated (it isn't a city or village), then set it as |location=none. Each time the county or location changes, define it and set the spans up right; since {{jctint}} isn't specific to one state, you have to set |state=GA for any template usages that have a county or a location (other than none) set.
  • The "See also" section goes before the references, not after, and it should be a bulleted list
  • According to my paper GDOT 2009–10 map, SR 233 starts in Warren County and ends in Columbia County. (Always start on the west and move easterly, so the junction list in the infobox needs to be flipped.)
  • External links as a section shouldn't be present unless it has at least one link. I asked, not for an empty section, but to see if you had looked for any appropriate links to add to it.

Let me know if that answers your questions. There's also WP:USRD/STDS that details our best practices, although some of what I mention isn't in there. Imzadi 1979  05:16, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

1. Where does the |counties= go in the infobox.
2. The junction list idea is confusing to me. I understand that {{jcttop}} goes at the top, {{jctint}} goes on each entry line, and {{jctbtm}} goes at the bottom. That part is simple. I don't understand how to define the county, or how many rows/columns. Also, how do you define the location or how many rows the location spans? How do I use |location=none or |state=GA?
I plan on flipping the junction list in the infobox later on.
Thanks for your help. Allen (talk) 20:28, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
1. Doesn't matter what order you put it in, since the template will put the content in the right place. I usually put it after the second terminus and before the previous/next route stuff that generates the browser at the bottom of the infobox.
2. Ok, take a look at the documentation for jctint after you read this. the first time you use jctint in the article, it will look something like:
|location=[city/village name or "none"]
|road=[jct template or plain text road name]
|notes=[any notes needed] }}
The cspan number sets how many rows of the table that county will span; if it's equal to 1, you can skip that line. The lspan number sets how many rows of the table the location will span; if the location is "none" though, you have to repeat it each row. After that, if the next junction is in the same county but in a different location, you'd use something like:
|location=[city/village name or "none"]
|lspan=# [if needed]
|road=[jct template or plain text road name]
|notes=[any notes needed] }}
Any time you input a value for county or location, you have to define the state. The template uses the state to create the links to [[<county> County, <full state name>|<county]] and [[<location>, <full state name>|<location]]; if you don't give it the state's postal abbreviation, it won't create the proper link.
If you have any questions, take a look at any Michigan highway article's junction list coding, but you'll need to note one thing. For Michigan, we have a state-specific template called {{MIint}}. It works just like jctint, except that I never have to remember to insert |state=MI because it knows that it's for Michigan already. We haven't created these templates for all of the states yet, but eventually we will. The basics works the same between the two. Imzadi 1979  20:48, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
I went ahead and created {{GAint}} and updated the examples above to use it. –Fredddie 00:19, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Your junction list looked good. I made a few minor changes though which I'll explain here. I switched jctint for GAint. Now that it exists, you might as well use it. I moved some city links into the jct template for simplicity. The Fort Gordon location can be set using |location_special=, which lets you specify whatever you need there, linked or unlinked. The phrase "western terminus" isn't a proper noun (big pet peeve) and it shouldn't be capitalized. The color key version of the footer isn't needed unless the colors are used, so I switched to the plain footer. The last thing is that I moved the names so that they came after the last highway (name3 for triple concurrencies instead of name1 so it appears last, not in the middle). Seriously though, the table looked great, so pat yourself on your back! Imzadi 1979  01:45, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the compliments! Finally, some good words about my edits!
Seriously: I went to replace the {{jctint}} with {{GAint}}, but you had already done it -- while I was editing the page! I didn't know how to put the Fort Gordon entry in, so I left it the way it was. Thanks for the info about the location special "tag". I copied a junction list from M-1, so the colored bar came with it. Thanks for reformatting the names/locations for me. I was stumped on those.
I took the information I learned and updated Georgia State Route 383 and Georgia State Route 388. How do those look?
Thanks, again, for bearing with me in my editing trial and error. Allen (talk) 03:15, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
SR 388 needs an update. If a highway is in a single county, we drop the county column. If it's also in a single location, we drop the location column too. Look at the M-553 article. The junction list for M-553 has its county column dropped; the junction list for M-554 has both county and location columns dropped. To do that, add the state and county, or state, county and location, into the top template, and it will generate the required note above the table. Then don't insert the county and/or location into the row templates. Imzadi 1979  03:27, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Another thing to learn to do at some point is formatting a full reference citation. I use the citation templates myself, since I can plug in the various variables, and it outputs the result in a neatly consistent fashion. (Like most templates, it doesn't matter what order you code the template parameters in the article, the template generates the output according to its coding.) Things like {{cite web}}, {{cite map}}, {{google maps}}, {{cite book}}, etc work great. Now, before you get ahead of yourself too much, you don't have to learn how to use them right now. Just try to create footnotes that have the title of the source, a date when it was published, an author if there is one, most importantly and for online sources, the accessdate.

Oh, and when you're making a junction list, you should provide the source you used to get the mileposts. The {{jcttop}} has the |length_ref= parameter to insert the footnote in the mile column of the table. (There are also similar parameters for the other columns, but for most things, f we cite the mileages, we're good.) Imzadi 1979  03:36, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I tried to add the template to SR 388, but I messed up somehow. I tried to figure out where I went wrong, but I'm stumped. Allen (talk) 03:56, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
This edit fixed it... you didn't have the reference in the <ref></ref> tags. This edit dropped the county column for you. Imzadi 1979  04:00, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Just something to consider, and it's more of a personal preference, but I don't use the "ISO" date format of "2012-04-01" anymore for citations, preferring to use the more standard "April 1, 2012" format used in the US. There's nothing wrong with the ISO variant, and in fact we once had to use it in the templates, but I don't think it looks as professional or polished. The key item, just be consistent in what format you use for dates, and you're allowed to use one in the prose of the article and a different one in the references. Imzadi 1979  04:04, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for correcting my "tried to" edits.
As for the date format, Template:Google maps said to use that format. Allen (talk) 04:09, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
It's not required, the examples just use that. At one time, we had a feature called date autoformatting. 2012-04-01 would be linked, and depending on your date settings in your account preferences, it would appear as "2012-04-01", "April 1, 2012" or "1 April 2012" in the link. The citations templates all automatically linked the dates, and because of the way that worked, they had to be input as ISO. (The server would recognized and reformat April 1, 2012 and 1 April 2012 even though that's two separate links each.) Well, date auto formatting was removed because it only worked for editors with accounts; IPs and non-editors saw ISO dates. That was a few years ago, but lots of articles still use ISO dates in citations. Use whatever format you want. Imzadi 1979  04:17, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Micah True

Imzadi, I am (more or less) the sole editor of this new article. It has gotten nearly 18,000 views in the last 2 days. Lots of traffic. It needs a fresh set of eyes. Thank you. 7&6=thirteen () 18:13, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I cleaned up the references Some points to remember:
  • location is for the place the newspaper/book is published, not the dateline of the news story. Newspapers only need locations if the title lacks the city name.
  • pages on a book is for a range of specific pages being cited, not the number of pages in the book. With over 300 pages in that book, per WP:V and WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT, we really need the specific page number(s) from that book to back the information being cited. (Since you have press sources that page this claim, you can drop the book completely as a reference and put it in a "Further reading" section since the book is a primary source on its content, and you have some perfectly good secondary sources on his connection to the book.)
  • Dates should be consistently formatted the same way.
  • Newspaper/magazine names should be in the work field of the template, not the publisher. That way they're correctly noted and put in italics. (The Times Union of Albany, New York, is published by the Hearst Corporation.) The templates format hidden metadata in the page that lists works and publishers separately for citation purposes.
  • There's the {{#tag:ref||group="nb"|name=""}} for doing nested references. That way you aren't repeated the full citation inside the explanatory footnote.
I also fixed some links to disambiguation pages. I removed the link completely to mariposa because there isn't a link on that page that applies to what the article is talking about. I linked to the specific huarache as well.
Some suggestions for the future, if you will. It looks bad to have more than two footnotes at the end of a sentence. For stuff that's not really controversial (like his directorship of the CCUM) you only need one footnote. In that CCUM case, I'd drop the CCUM homepage as unnecessary, and pick one of the two news sources instead. If you do need more than one footnote at the end of a sentence though, please try to put them in numerical order: [1][7][20][22] instead of [7][1][20][22].
If you have multiple footnotes to news articles that are essentially duplicating each other in terms of content (each reporter might word things differently, but report the exact same details), then you can combine some of that duplication by using only one of the articles instead of all of them. More footnotes aren't necessarily better; too many footnotes make the article itself kinda tedious to read. Imzadi 1979  02:27, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
One other suggestion: pre-emptively archive online news sources. I use to generate archives of news items. If you apply |deadurl= no at the end of the citation template, the template will link the title to the original online source and list the archive link afterwards. Then if/when the link goes dead in the future, you just removed that deadurl parameter and the template switches to link to the archive as the title and put the original link later. Most online news articles will go dead when the publisher moves them behind a paywall or simply deletes the article from their website. The only caveat is that video is not archived, and I'm concerned by the number of online videos you've used. Imzadi 1979  18:25, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. I am confused about the archiving. Please put one into the article so that I can emulate it. Thanks for all your help. FYI, I also listed yon on the DYK. 7&6=thirteen () 18:32, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
Seeing it in print makes it much clearer. 7&6=thirteen () 18:46, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Registering this stuff is cumbersome, but I'm sure it will be worthwhile. Didn't realize that each one had to be manually archived. In any event, there seems to be a problem with the Wulfhurst citation. "duplicate" links I think. 7&6=thirteen () 19:49, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Wulfhurst resolved itself. 7&6=thirteen () 19:53, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
I finished them all already. Imzadi 1979  19:53, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Issue with the dates at Template:Geographic reference

Another editor noticed that that code for different date formats at Template:Geographic reference doesn't always work. Since you suggested the change, you might be interested in the discussion. TheCatalyst31 ReactionCreation 18:33, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Cool! I recently went to Michigan. 1st time seeing snow-radical!

This is an awesome thing. I'll be in touch, but I'm a fifth grader so i can't give you my email address. Thanks! Miri3795 (talk) 04:41, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Dispute resolution survey

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Interstate 516

I had some questions concerning editing the page, that I wanted to run by you. This is because:

  1. . "You guys" at USRD are particular about certain editing quirks.
  2. . You personally reverted an edit recently, and I didn't want mine to get reverted, as well.

I think that the exit list and/or the junctions in the infobox are wrong.

According to the 2011-2012 Georgia state map, I-516 has the following exits (exit numbers not marked on the map):
SR 21 North & SR 25 North in Garden City
US 80 West/SR 26 West & SR 25 Connector East (or South) (west end of US 80/SR 26 concurrency)
Augusta Avenue
Some exit c. 0.6 miles (0.97 km) farther down
I-16 West/SR 404 West & I-16 East/US 17 North/SR 404 East (west/north end of US 17 concurrency)
Some exit c. 0.26 miles (0.42 km) farther down
US 17 South/SR 25 South & US 80 East/SR 26 East (east/south end of US 17 concurrency; south end of SR 25 concurrency; east end of US 80/SR 26 concurrency)
Some exit c. 1 mile (1.6 km) farther down
I-516 either ends at the West DeRenne Avenue/Montgomery Street intersection, or just west of it.

According to the 2012 Rand McNally road atlas, the exits are as follows (exit numbers are marked on this map): Exit 8: SR 21 North & SR 25 North in Garden City
Exit 7: US 80 West/SR 26 West (west end of US 80/SR 26 concurrency)
Exit 5: I-16 West/SR 404 West & I-16 East/US 17 North/SR 404 East (west/north end of US 17 concurrency)
Exit 3: US 17 South/SR 25 South & US 80 East/SR 26 East (east/south end of US 17 concurrency; south end of SR 25 concurrency; east end of US 80/SR 26 concurrency)
Exit 1: Veterans Parkway
I-516 either ends at the West DeRenne Avenue/Montgomery Street intersection, or just west of it.

Also, in the infobox, can a browse be put there concerning Interstate highways? Is it okay if I edit the page? Or, would you rather do it? Allen (Morriswa) (talk) 16:04, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

I reverted the edit because that IP was vandalizing several articles, most notably Interstate 68, to include false information about phantom extensions to highways that couldn't be verified through the DOT, news or Google Maps websites. If you look at that IP's edit contributions, you'll see that all of them have been reverted. Imzadi 1979  21:48, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
That's nice, but it doesn't cover the question I proposed. Allen (Morriswa) (talk) 00:44, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
You don't need my permission to edit things, but that was the premise of the question. Since your premise (that I just randomly revert stuff instead of reverting the series of bad edits across several articles by a vandal) was based on a misperception/miscommunication, I corrected it. The rest of your question didn't need answering.
As for the question: follow what the reliable sources say. If that means correcting the article, correct the article. That IP said that I-516 intersected I-95 (a quick check of GMaps shows that it does not), said that WV 279 was getting HOV lanes (it's in the middle of nowhere in West Virginia), and that an exit was closed on I-68 that is open to traffic. All of these edits could be easily refuted, so I reverted them as vandalism. That's the extent of my involvement with I-516 other than my general effort to roll out the junction list templates to IH/USH articles.
As for the infobox: excluding business routes and the like, state highways (Interstate, US, state inclusive) should have browsers that form a chain. We don't run a browser chain in the state just for Interstates, so the highway "previous" to I-516 should be whatever highway in Georgia has the next highest number, whether that is a state highway, a US Highway or another Interstate. The highway "next" to I-516 should be whatever the next highest number is in the state. As long as you follow the guidelines at WP:USRD/STDS, add away. Imzadi 1979  01:13, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
In short, Be bold, but follow the sources and the article standards. If your edits aren't vandalism, they won't be summarily reverted like that IP's edits were. Imzadi 1979  01:32, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Old Lake CR 50 in Florida

I thought you made adding the shields unnecessary when you reformatted all the CR shield templates. I apologize for not resizing the Lake CR 50 shield, but this was one that was missed. ----DanTD (talk) 13:02, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

I just found another where the shields aren't showing up; Ormond Scenic Loop and Trail. Am I supposed to bring this issue to WP:USROADS? Because I'm willing to do that, if necessary. ----DanTD (talk) 14:16, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
I dunno, that article looks fine to me. Imzadi 1979  07:08, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

LA 137/US 425

I am working on a new article for Louisiana Highway 137. Would it be appropriate to also put the shield for US Highway 425 on the article? LA 137 and US 425 both run on the same road, and LA 137's route is entirely US 425. Confusing, but Louisiana just slapped US 425 on a bunch of different state highways. I thought it would be appropriate, since there are no LA 137 shields by themselves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcdonaat (talkcontribs) 22:40, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't put it in the infobox. If LA 137 is completely redundant to US 425 (in other words, no part of LA 137 exists separate from US 425), then I wouldn't even write a separate article. Write an article on U.S. Route 425 in Louisiana, and put LA 137 into the route description. You can then add a {{infobox road small}} for LA 137 in the article. Look at M-69 (Michigan highway) and you'll see that G-30 has an infobox in the history section in the area that discusses that former county-designated highway. Imzadi 1979  23:04, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Chennai FAR

Hi! The FAR for Chennai (review at Wikipedia:Featured article review/Chennai/archive2) has been ongoing for a while, and could use some comments to help wrap it up. Would you mind revisiting your comments on the page, and perhaps entering an opinion as to whether the article should be kept or delisted? Thanks! Dana boomer (talk) 14:00, 12 April 2012 (UTC)


ha!, that's not stupid: Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2012 April 12#WWM, finally

my point was: i was looking for the meanings of WWM and i was directly redirected to Concurrency (road) (with no WWM-search possible on this page), which is not relevant ...and it's pretty boring when anybody just "undoes" without any thinking - (talk) 06:19, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

The article doesn't use the expanded form, and abbreviations are not appropriate in the heading for the section. The abbreviation isn't in use anywhere else, not in reliable source so it's not needed in the target article, and no, it wasn't an impulse reaction; I fully considered how appropriate your edits were before removing them. Imzadi 1979  06:23, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Infobox for OLD road

I'm going around and updating some articles for Louisiana, and made one for LA 139. About half of the length of the highway was supplanted by U.S. 425, and removed, so I wanted to do a small infobox for a smaller section (see Old County Lake Road 550 for an idea). The road has mostly been supplanted by another state highway (as is the case with LA 139 being replaced somewhat by US 425). The only other thing I can think of is taking another section, without the infobox, and talking about the highway being replaced. Any ideas? I know it wouldn't fall in line with many other pages on here, but I feel that this is a unique case (no other 'state' route has been partially replaced by a U.S. highway since 1955). Mcdonaat (talk) 06:57, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Maybe a look at U.S. Route 16 in Michigan would help. US 16 in Michigan replaced M-16 in its entirety. Of course, it was later converted into a freeway and replaced by Interstate 96, but the idea is similar. Otherwise, you might have a parallel with U.S. Route 2 in Michigan. That highway mostly replaced M-12 (Michigan highway) (currently a set index, but at some point potentially a full article again), but its eastern end was replaced by I-75. The history section starts out by explaining where the highway ran, and later details the truncation. I hope this helps. Imzadi 1979  07:02, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! It helps a good bit. Would it be against the rules to force an OLD shield and LA 139 shield in a smaller infobox to talk about the history of the route? Since this route isn't US 2, where a lengthy article is required, and instead a small state highway, would an infobox be better? I can make one and put it on the page for you to see, and it can easily be deleted, but it's something that I feel would fit a little better, given the special circumstance. Mcdonaat (talk) 08:09, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
What I'd do, if LA 139 still exists, but in shorter form, is to create its article. The RD section would discuss it as it exists now. The history would start out with how it existed when it was created, and when it was shortened. If LA 139 no longer exists, and instead part of it was given to US 425, and the other part was given to another highway designation completely, then you can create a set index page like M-12. That page would list that from A to B, LA 139 is now US 425 and from B to C, it's now the other highway. There aren't any "rules", just the idea that we really don't write more articles than necessary. In my US 2 example, the history says that it used to extend north from St. Ignace to Sault Ste. Marie on what is now I-75 (along with other parts that are now M-129 or H-63 before the freeway was built). If a reader is interested in those other pieces, s/he can read the I-75, M-129 or H-63 articles. If a reader is currently interested in the M-12 designation, the set index will tell that same reader that M-12 is now US 2, M-69, M-95, US 2, H-63, M-129, M-134, and M-129. I hope that gives you some ideas. Imzadi 1979  08:38, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

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High Five Interchange

hey, thanks for your wonderful map on High Five Interchange. Certainly helps to understand what's going on with all those roads. I had a devil of a time figuring it out when writing the article. MathewTownsend (talk) 13:17, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. For interchanges, it's actually kinda easy to export a SVG from OpenStreetMap, although for highway articles, it's better to create one from scratch using GIS (which I haven't been successful with yet). Imzadi 1979  17:39, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

FFD comment request

You were the image reviewer at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Stark Raving Dad/archive3 which was promoted to FA on 8 February 2011. This included a review of the infobox image File:Stark Raving Dad.PNG. I am in a debate at Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2012 April 15#File:Pilot .28The Cosby Show.29 monopoly lesson.png, which is a debate over the infobox image for a television episode. The reviewer believes that the image currently violates WP:NFCC. I was hoping you might weigh in on this debate.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:41, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Eppa Rixey

Sorry, but nesting footnotes still elude me. Please tweak. Thanks. 7&6=thirteen () 13:11, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Ok, here's the simple primer on how to next a footnote.
  1. Under the edit window there is that section that has as drop-down menu to different groups of code or symbols. Under "Wiki markup", there is {{#tag:ref||group="nb"|name=""}}. Wherever you want to insert a nested footnote, insert the cursor in the edit box and click that link or copy/paste that text.
  2. This special tag is kind of like a template. After the first pipe character, insert the content of your footnote, including the reference. It should looksomething like this now: {{#tag:ref|This is an explanation of foo.<ref name=bar/>|group="nb"|name=""}}
  3. For the group, change that to upper-alpha, lower-alpha, etc without quotation marks if that's what you're using in the article. Now you should have something like this: {{#tag:ref|This is an explanation of foo.<ref name=bar/>|group=upper-alpha|name=""}}
  4. For the name, you can have this footnote named like any other reference/footnote, so something like: {{#tag:ref|This is an explanation of foo.<ref name=bar/>|group="nb"|name="foo"}}.
    1. If you want to repeat the explanatory footnote (I've done this with multi-state highway articles for a note that explains that the length is the sum of the individual state lengths and that mileposts reset at the state lines), you can just use: <ref name="foo" group=upper-alpha />, matching the group and name to the original footnote.
I hope that helps. Imzadi 1979  13:23, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
I asked for the time, and you told me how to build a watch. I'm working on figuring that out; I'm sure it's going to work, but I'm not familiar with the drop downs on the edit box. I found your editorial changes quite concrete and elightening. Thanks. 7&6=thirteen () 16:24, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
And there are now duplicated footnotes 1 and 2. 7&6=thirteen () 16:51, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. 7&6=thirteen () 17:07, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

GA by number list

Imzadi1979, Where is a good place to get decent roads to add to my GA by number list page? I know of ones I want, but they are redirects. Allen (Morriswa) (talk) 18:38, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Minnesota State Highway 7

The DYK project (nominate) 01:37, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


I see you have been involved in discussions at Template talk:Infobox U.S. state. Therefore I would like to ask you to join in on my new discussion there. Thanks Fry1989 eh? 20:17, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Realignment of US41 in Michigan

See Talk:U.S. Route 41 in Michigan#2010 realignment. Chris857 (talk) 01:30, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Whitefish Bay National Forest Scenic Byway

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:05, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Georgia State Route 2

Can you take a look at the article Georgia State Route 2? I have done lots of editing lately, and I'd like your opinion as to what is missing, etc. and what to do next with the article. Allen (Morriswa) (talk) 22:36, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) As I said on IRC, the RD should be at least twice as long as it is now. –Fredddie 23:54, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
I rewrote the RD for U.S. Route 10 in Michigan, which is roughly a similar length. For that, I divided the route in half at a logical point (where it converts from two-lane surface road to four-lane freeway). I wrote a little "mini-lead" that summarizes some stuff about the whole roadway. Then there is a subsection for the surface highway and one for the freeway, each probably about as long as the RD in the SR 2 article. Now, you may run out of things to say which will limit the total content, but I think you can expand that about double. At the very least, you can break it up into several paragraphs. Imzadi 1979  01:17, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for County Road 595 (Marquette County, Michigan)

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:05, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Seward Highway

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:05, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for M-5 (Michigan highway)

PanydThe muffin is not subtle 08:06, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Weinen means weeping

Sad to learn about your loss, I must say that today's Bach cantata, now on the Main page, says it better than I could, "Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen" (Weeping, lamenting, worrying, fearing). Please let me know if I ca be of any helpl, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:29, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

  • My thoughts (and prayers if applicable) as well Imzadi. Very sorry to hear of your loss. My best to you and yours. — Ched :  ?  11:24, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that Imzadi. All the best mate..♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:58, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for H-13 (Michigan county highway)

PanydThe muffin is not subtle 08:02, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

M-14 (Michigan highway) GA Review

Hi, Imzadi. I've taken a look at the M-14 article through the GA review process, and have placed it on hold. --Starstriker7(Talk) 16:53, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Frederick Russell Burnham FAR

Hi! The Frederick Russell Burnham FAR is still ongoing and has been moved to FARC. If you have the time, it would be appreciated if you could revisit your comments there, and perhaps give us your opinion as to whether the article should be kept as a FA or delisted. Thanks! Dana boomer (talk) 12:37, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Use of attributes published in GIS data

Hi Imzadi, I recall seeing your participation in a discussion (can’t recall where) regarding the use of GIS data as a source for content on highway articles. Can you review this discussion on my talk page regarding the use of area data from the attribute table of a GIS feature class (communities) published as open data by the City of Calgary? We’d like to know if we can use the open data to support the uncited area column at List of neighbourhoods in Calgary#List of communities. I believe the data would be considered a WP:PRIMARY, but may qualify for use per the following excerpt from its associated policy.

"A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that any educated person, with access to the source but without specialist knowledge, will be able to verify are supported by the source."

If the data can be used as a source, I’d also like to know the proper way to cite GIS data. Hwy43 (talk) 02:34, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Wisconsin Highway 35

Hi-I corrected some misspellings in the Widconsin Highway 35 article that were redlinks. However, I left some others that were about highways. Would you please look at the article with the remaining redlinks. I am not sure but I think there is some undetected vandalism in the article=Thank you-RFD (talk) 11:19, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for County Road 510 (Marquette County, Michigan)

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Louisiana sign specs

I swung by the LaDOTD and picked up some sign specs, and got some answers about the bordered signs and non-bordered signs. Contractors have an option between the two, with Interstate highway contractors opting to use the black-with-border. The signs would need to be changed to the non-border, as seen on Louisiana Highway 1258. A template might not be necessary; one sign is already made, so we might can just use that one sign as a template. Mcdonaat (talk) 21:28, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Awesome! Did you get the specs on paper or digitally? Either way, I would love to see them. Then we can get the files corrected and get moving on uploading new images. –Fredddie 21:53, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
On paper!!! It's the same exact design you have, to be honest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcdonaat (talkcontribs) 22:11, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
OK. I still have a few questions, though. These should cover anything I would want to know by looking at the plans myself. –Fredddie 23:27, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
  1. How large are the numbers?
  2. How far up from the bottom are the numbers?
  3. How large is "LA"?
  4. How far from the top is "LA"?
  5. How much space is between the edge of the state shape and the edge of the shield?
The whole sign is 48x48. Height between the top of LA and the top of the sign is going to be 4.75. The top of the Louisiana shape itself is halfway, so 2.375. The height of the letters is 12, the same height as they are now. The height of the number is 14. Hope that helps! I'm on a computer without Illustrator, and the DOTD thinks its awesome that the shields are being updated online. Mcdonaat (talk) 20:03, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

"City, State" links (in Michigan newspaper articles)

Re your edits to Hillsdale Daily News, The Daily Telegram and The Daily Reporter (Coldwater) ... Is there a guideline or MOS entry on whether to link [[City, State]], [[United States]] or [[City, State|City]], [[State]], [[United States]] -- i.e., link the state separately or not? I used to use one link, as you do, but I changed my ways after reading a talk page debate somewhere (sorry, I don't remember where, and I can't seem to find it on WP search). The point made was that when we're identifying a location, we're saying it's in Hillsdale, and it's in Michigan, and it's in the United States -- and it doesn't make sense, when naming all three, to link two of these and not the other one. Also you have the example of large cities like Chicago or Detroit that stand alone in their WP article names; to avoid redirects you would have to link them as [[Detroit]], [[Michigan]], [[United States]], anyway. Perhaps I'd be better off asking this question at WP:USA, but I figured I'd ask you first because you've edited so many more pages than me and perhaps you know where this policy is written, or why this practice is generally preferred. ``` t b w i l l i e ` $1.25 ` 20:10, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I see that in your edits you also de-link "United States". I guess that makes more sense than how it appeared to me at first blush, but I'd still like to know if you know of any policy, guideline or consensus that covers this issue. My preference for articles on US or Canadian companies remains to link all three jurisdictions (city--state/province--federal) but I will bow to consensus if such exists. ``` t b w i l l i e ` $1.25 ` 20:22, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
WP:OVERLINK... the value is in the link to the specific city, not to the state nor the country. Steer our readers to the most specific article. Imzadi 1979  00:10, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Townships U.P.

your in no position to decide if townships can be included on population centers. look at every other state on wikipedia and they include townships and largest population centers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:28, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I have an opinion, and any editor can start a discussion about what to include or exclude from an article. See Talk:Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and you'll see that others agreed. You're welcome to restart that discussion if you wish. Imzadi 1979  19:12, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Forest Service Routes

I've run into a wall when it comes to forest service routes. A few of the state highways here in Louisiana end at forest service roads, and I would like to know if there is a way that the shield for a forest road could be placed in an infobox, as a terminus. It's vague to just say "Local Road," and the forest road is a true numbered road that can be followed. Lemme know what you think! Also, my partner in crime Fredddie has a template saved for Louisiana highways, and it's ready to roll out! Mcdonaat (talk) 20:29, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

There are graphics for Forest Highways 1–99, but none created for the Forest Service Roads, which are akin to secondary roads in that system. Imzadi 1979  22:55, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Louisiana highway revamping

It looks like a few highways are being deleted from the DOTD logbook. The highways are vanishing on the maps, signs being changed, and if you want it sent to you, a huge amount of highways are being turned back to local control... about 2,500 miles in total. I'm updating the highway pages for the ones that have vanished so far, so if you see any changing, it's on purpose! Mcdonaat (talk) 02:57, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

You have a copy of the logbook? Is it in a digital format or paper? –Fredddie 03:32, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
The logbook is, in my mind, emailing DOTD officials and verifying that routes have been deleted. I can send you those emails if you want to, since they're useful. The only route I have changed so far is LA 3131, as it's been changed to LA 1. Mcdonaat (talk) 03:43, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
That's not a logbook... that's "personal correspondance, which isn't exactly a citable source for Wikipedia purposes though. Now, an actual logbook, or inventory log or whatever LaDOTD wanted to call it would be very handy since such a thing should give official lengths and maybe even the mileposts for junctions, like Mn/DOT's Statewide Trunk Logpoint Listing does, which is a citable source. Imzadi 1979  06:18, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
P.S. A suggestion, if you will allow. Your writing and editing style is pretty good, but you've come up very short in on respect: referencing. I'd like to suggest that you learn how to generate footnotes at some point, because it makes it a lot easier to verify specific information in the article back to a source. The simplest method is to finish a sentence that needs to be cited with its terminal punctuation (aka the period, but you could be citing after a semicolon or comma in the middle of a sentence). Then without entering a space, add <ref>A reference here...</ref> which will add the little wikilinked footnote number. Then in the reference section, you need to add {{reflist}} which is where the list will appear. There are various citation templates like {{cite web}} for webpages, {{cite news}} for news sources like newspaper articles (online or not) or online TV news articles, {{cite journal}} for journal or magazine articles, {{cite map}} for maps (with {{google maps}}, {{yahoo maps}} or {{bing maps}} already set up for those online mapping services), etc. Using the templates isn't required, and you could hand-code a reference just as you might hand-type an APA or MLA bibliographic entry in a term paper, but I personally prefer the templates because it keeps the output neat and consistent.
The one thing that I suggest though that you do with any reference is be specific! If it's to a book ({{cite book}} comes in handy, forgot one!), a magazine/journal, map or whatever.... you need to specify the page number(s) or map grid section(s) that locate the information. Online sources really need URLs that point directly, or as directly as possible, to the source and an access date. Pointing a reader to a district map at [4] isn't very helpful if they don't know which district map they need. [5] isn't a source, it's a home page to a service. (I actually recommend that you not use Google Earth and instead plot the driving directions in Google Maps, and link to the URL for those directions like I did with M-5 (Michigan highway) so that then a reader can pull up a copy of your work.)
Sorry if this got a little long, but it's my talk page after all. The reason I brought all of this up is that you don't have a source on Louisiana Highway 3131 for "The road was deleted in 2012, with the highway being marked solely as LA 1 on highway maps", and I could challenge that update because I just can't verify it as the truth from the generic sources you've provided. (Plus, that really needs to be put in a history section, not a route description, but that's another story for another time.) Imzadi 1979  06:35, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Interstate 475 (Michigan)

Hi Imzadi1979, I posted comments for the GA review on this article. Sorry for the mix-up on the name change! Mark Arsten (talk) 22:44, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the help!

The edits and advice you supplied were much appreciated and helpful! Also, as a fellow Michigan citizen I am now interested in visiting interstate Wiki articles. Highways were one thing I never thought to Wiki and now I've been more inclined to read about them (especially those in Michigan that I use every day). Thanks again for your time and effort on my first page! DerrickJSly (talk) 06:46, 5 June 2012 (UTC)


TY for your response to my discussion about Highway 20. I'll get to work. --@Efrat (talk) 19:14, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Talk page header

Sort of road related.. how could I land a talk page BGS like you have? I'm a fan of it, and would like to make my own to fit my area. Also, how could I get a cool signature like yours, with the colored background? Mcdonaat (talk) 01:20, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

The code for my BGS and Big Brown Sign is on {{User:Imzadi1979/talkheader}}, which is basically using a custom table to create the sign. The rounded corners are made through a {{Round corners}} template. For the background colors, I looked up the Pantone colors in the MUTCD and converted them to hex. Green is #006B54 and yellow is #FCD116, for instance. Just take a look at at my header, and you should see how it's done.
{{User:Imzadi1979/header}} is the BGS and Big Blue Sign that's on my user page. For my talk page, I used a brown sign with the Clarendon font to mimic National Park Service signage for my archive list. For my user page, I used a blue sign for the second "informational" sign. Take a look at the coding for those header "templates", and you should be able to figure out how I set it up. If not, ask.
Now, my signature is a similar idea. The code for it is:
<span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<font color="white">Imzadi&nbsp;1979</font>]] [[User talk:Imzadi1979|<font color="white"><big>→</big></font>]]'''</span>
The span tells it to run the background color (green) behind the whole thing with 2 pixels of padding around the text. Then I bolded the text so that it would show up better against the background. By default, links are blue unless you change the font color inside the piped section of the link. That's where the font tags come in, to change the color of the text in the links. To enhance the mileage sign aspect, I put a non-breaking space between the two parts of my user name to make it look like it's a sign for "1979 miles to 'Imzadi', turn right". The link to my talk page is piped to display as the right arrow, which I also formatted as white text at a larger size. The then last part is the closing span tag to end the code. The only thing to remember is that there is a limit on the length of your signature code; I think it's 250 characters, which is why I didn't add any additional links. (You have to have a link to either your talk page or your user page at a minimum, per policy. Anything else is just extra.)
What I suggest is that you play around with formatting something in a sandbox (or even a new section of your talk page) and preview it. Once you've got something you like, copy the code and open your preferences page. On the "User profile" tab, there is a section labeled signature. Paste your code into the box there and check the box labeled "Treat the above as wiki markup." If you don't check that box, it won't work. Save the change, and you'll see a preview of your signature minus the date displayed above the box.
You can use all sorts of CSS coding inside the span tags, but you don't want to get too crazy. Imzadi 1979  01:49, 6 June 2012 (UTC)


I wish I had paid attention to this page--it would have saved me some time and irritation: I am the editor who started the review of The Canterbury Tales based on Oakley's nomination. I read through a couple of the related posts, and saw a note to the GAN talk discussion on the editor's talk page, and I couldn't agree more. Thanks for closing that discussion and writing up the conclusions. GA is hard enough already. Drmies (talk) 15:43, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

M22 tradeamrk

Imzadi1979: Your last change to the cultural reference on M22 is a false statement of law and fact. A Michigan AG opinion has no impact on federal law. There is no legal or authority to support your statement. In fact, federal courts has repeatedly ruled the opposite of the AG; public domain items can be valid trademarks. I like what you have done with your road sign pages. I would like to work with you to get the trademark issue right. As the page now stands you have published a false statement which could be considered defamatory. I am going to provide you some more information. In the meantime, I have removed your reference. I think it is important to note that M22 has a variety of federally registered trademarks which remain valid. Contrary to your post, federal registration creates a presumption of validity unless challenged in court or at the USPTO or suggestion that the issue is resolved is misleading. While you may have your own opinion and agree withe AG, you need to make sure to leave your views on the side-line. I will help you get objective information published on the issue which will be valuable to the reader and accurate under law. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:44, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Counterproductive efforts against the encyclopedia

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I'm not going to fight you on this and if you want to spend your time then thats on you but efforts like this are pretty counterproductive to helping the encyclopedia. You do a lot of good work on articles but your stance on ownership of articles in the scope of USRoads is rather troubling. Kumioko (talk) 18:11, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Those are all redirects to pages and subpages of the USRD project, and it's not appropriate to tag them for other projects. I only reversed yet another ill-advised encroachment by your massive project into our project where you know that your actions like this are typically not welcome. These are not articles, they are project pages, so your accusation is misplaced. Imzadi 1979  18:22, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Well your right about one thing in that statement, USRoads isn't very welcome to help from anyone outside the project. Thats part of the problem. Kumioko (talk) 18:27, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
No, that's not correct... see WP:USRD/US66, which is a joint collaboration with the US History WikiProject. You fail to see though that it would contentious or controversial to take the subpages of a wikiproject as part of another project without some sort of joint collaboration proposed first. How can this be "ownership of articles" (emphasis mine) when these aren't articles but wikiproject subpages in the first place! Retract your false accusation, please. Imzadi 1979  18:30, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I find it silly that people are arguing for wikiproject banners for note-pages such as these. Chris857 (talk) 18:37, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Now Kumioko, before you issue some stupid retort, re-read what I've said. There is a difference between articles and wikiproject pages. All I did was remove banner tags from redirects that point to pages that are part of the USRD project. They are not pages that are a part of any state projects or the US national project; they are USRD's subpages. No other project should be claiming maintenance or "ownership" (whatever that means since all pages are "owned" by the total of the Wikipedia community) of another project's subpages. Now, leave me alone while I continue occupying myself sitting here in a hospital waiting room waiting for my only living grandmother to come out of surgery. Unless you're willing to retract your demonstrably false accusation and apologize, we are done. Imzadi 1979  18:40, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
There is nothing incorrect in that statement. A little hurtful and insulting perhaps but not incorrect. You are correct in that these are project pages but there is an inferred collaboration between the USRoads project and the state. Like it or not, the state project gets some say too in the articles that fall under there scope. I cannot and would not change that, WikiProject United States would not if I had anything to do with it and you nor WikiProject US Roads does either. AS I stated before if you feel compelled to spend your time untagging pages that clearly have a shared scope between multiple projects then thats on you but I haven't said anything that wasn't true nor do I need to retract it because it hurts your feelings. I am not spending my time in Wikipedia to intentionally piss people off but my time of being passive aggressive to try and keep the peace between you and USroads and WikiProject US and me are gone. I have tried that in the past and it failed miserably. Add to that Dramageddon that I have gone through a couple times trying to keep everyone happy. So know I am just going to say it as I see it and if that ruffles a few feathers and hurts a few feelings then thats life. Where all adults and we just have to deal with some occassional criticism, myself included and I know for a fact there are plenty of conversations and feelings of dislike towards me. If you see a page that falls under WPUS or one of the supported projects that pertains to USRoads then feel free to tag away. If it pertains to Roads and is in the US then you all should have a say in its development. Kumioko (talk) 18:45, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Project pages don't have a shared scope; they belong to their specific project only. No second project should have, or make, any claim to assisting in the maintenance of another project's subpages without an explicit consensus to do so, period. There isn't an inferred collaboration between USRD or any other project on its project pages. There is a stated collaboration between USRD and one specific project regarding the US 66 Task Force, so outside of that, don't infer anything similar. Case closed. Imzadi 1979  19:21, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Template:American cuisine

I set a poll up here, please contribute. --Jeremy (blah blahI did it!) 07:24, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia Help Survey

Hi there, my name's Peter Coombe and I'm a Wikimedia Community Fellow working on a project to improve Wikipedia's help system. At the moment I'm trying to learn more about how people use and find the current help pages. If you could help by filling out this brief survey about your experiences, I'd be very grateful. It should take less than 10 minutes, and your responses will not be tied to your username in any way.

Thank you for your time,
the wub (talk) 18:13, 14 June 2012 (UTC) (Delivered using Global message delivery)

U.S. Route 41 sign error

I didn't really think that mention of the US 41 sign error in New York was necessary either. The only thing I fixed was the format errors that anonymous IP made. I probably would've been better off deleting the whole sentence like you did in the previous edit. ----DanTD (talk) 19:19, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

The revert of your edits was a misclick, if you were wondering, when I was trying to click the "undo" button that would have undid all four edits today. Imzadi 1979  19:21, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

re your GAN Black River National Forest Scenic Byway


I have opened a review and made some suggestions at Talk:Black River National Forest Scenic Byway/GA1 regarding your nomination. Meanwhile, I've put the review on hold. Feel free to contact me with any questions or concerns. Regards, MathewTownsend (talk) 17:34, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

  The Writer's Barnstar
Man, isn't all that too much. Ankit MaityTalkContribs 12:37, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Imzadi 1979  07:19, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

M-56 GA

The link on your page to M-56 (1919–1957 Michigan highway) has the wrong dash between years, pointing at a nonexistent page. Chris857 (talk) 14:08, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

GW Parkway

Hello Imzadi1979, Regarding the George Washington Memorial Parkway, which we have both been making significant edits to, I added that the county for certain locations was Arlington County, Virginia. I believe you changed it so that the city section was empty. However, Arlington is also the city name used for street addresses, so therefore would also qualify for the "city" column. I'll change it back for you unless you respond, but this is just a little picky thing that I feel needs to be fixed Thank you. C16sh (talk) 15:53, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

The standard is that except for independent cities or consolidated city-counties that we don't span both columns with one jurisdiction. If there isn't a city or unincorporated community name for those areas, the location is left blank. Since Arlington is a county, and not an independent city, it should not span both. Please add any locations that are appropriate without duplicating the county. Imzadi 1979  15:59, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Black River National Forest Scenic Byway

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:03, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

Many thanks for fixing the dab in the US Highway 43 article concerning [[Brookside, Oconto County, Wisconsin.RFD (talk) 21:36, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh, that's no problem. That's one of those things that confused me once upon a time, but yeah, we have |ctdab= for dab by county and |area= for dab by area. If the link should be to [[Florence (town), Wisconsin]], just use |location=Florence and |area=town and it will even pipe the link to "Town of Florence". (That works for CDPs, townships, villages, etc.) Imzadi 1979  21:42, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Louisiana new shields

Could you tell me once more how to upload shields into the shield generator? I'm having a tough time understanding where to upload the images to. Also, do I need to just upload the template with the normal text, or do I need to convert it to FWHA-standard font? Mcdonaat 22:48, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of M-211 (Michigan highway)

The article M-211 (Michigan highway) you nominated as a good article has passed  ; see Talk:M-211 (Michigan highway) for comments about the article. Well done! There is a backlog of articles waiting for review, why not help out and review a nominated article yourself? Statυs (talk) 02:37, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of M-137 (Michigan highway)

The article M-137 (Michigan highway) you nominated as a good article has passed  ; see Talk:M-137 (Michigan highway) for comments about the article. Well done! There is a backlog of articles waiting for review, why not help out and review a nominated article yourself? Statυs (talk) 02:37, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of M-142 (Michigan highway)

After thoroughly reviewing this article, I have passed it   at this time. Continue to keep up the good work! Also, I probably should let you know that I am also reviewing M-143 (Michigan highway) and M-147 (Michigan highway) that you put up for good article nomination. Rp0211 (talk2me) 16:21, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Both nominations listed above have also passed into good article status. Good job on improving these articles! Rp0211 (talk2me) 16:52, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

your GAN has passed!


You GAN M-201 (Michigan highway) has passed. Congratulations! MathewTownsend (talk) 18:29, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Your GAN M-239 (Michigan highway) has passed!

Congratulations! MathewTownsend (talk) 18:33, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

GAN: M-227 (Michigan highway), M-205 (Michigan highway)

I have reviewed the M-227 (Michigan highway) article that you nominated for GA status and I have put the article on hold to allow one problem to be fixed. Please see the review page for more details.--Dom497 (talk) 13:52, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

I have reviewed the M-205 (Michigan highway) article that you nominated for GA status and I have put the article on hold to allow one problem to be fixed. Please see the review page for more details.--Dom497 (talk) 14:24, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

I passed 205 but for 227, I have left a comment on the review page.--Dom497 (talk) 23:19, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of M-217 (Michigan highway)

After thoroughly reviewing this article, I have passed it   at this time. Keep up the good work you are doing! Rp0211 (talk2me) 17:57, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I also reviewed M-222 (Michigan highway) for you, and have concluded that it meets the good article criteria as well. Good work! Rp0211 (talk2me) 18:56, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Louisiana state templates - changing colors

I'm currently in the sweeping mode of targeting the different state highway shields, converting to black-and-white. The major ones I'm doing right now are the ones referenced in infoboxes as being along Interstates, since those are the most viewed ones, in my opinion. However, if a Business route, Spur route, or Loop route is shown on the infobox, it actually still shows the green-and-white box that Louisiana defaults to, instead of black-and-white MUTCD standard. Is there any way I can have the boxes show the black-and-white plates instead of green-and-white? Directions on how to enable Alternate shields to pop up too would be helpful! Mcdonaat 00:39, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) {{Infobox road}}, {{Jct}}, or both? –Fredddie 03:07, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
JCT only. Info box is done by hand. Mcdonaat 03:30, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Quick question, how are you changing the graphics? I hope that you're uploading the new graphics under new names. If not, you could be creating licensing issues and other problems. Imzadi 1979  03:40, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm uploading the new highway shields under the same name. The fonts are still Roadgeek, and the shields are still the same physical size. Everything is still the same, and the DOTD has signed off on the new specs, which the signs are measured to. Everything is free to use, and no licensing issues are expected. In fact, to make sure, I took a sign off of a post and measured it by hand, and put it back up. The shields are replacing the green-and-white ones, with the exception of routes that have been removed; they are still left as green-and-white, since they were never changed over before deletion. Mcdonaat 04:47, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
STOP and REVERT! You shouldn't replace the existing markers, and instead you should upload your new versions under a different naming scheme. If you were correcting the green-and-white pattern, that would be one thing, but you're replacing it! In doing so, the templates won't know if File:Louisiana 8.svg is green-and-white or black-and-white, and which color version of any auxiliary banner tabs (alternate, business, etc) to use. You're creating licensing issues because you're not editing the images Holderca1 created, you're replacing them. Since all of these graphics should be on Commons, Commons:Avoid overwriting existing files applies.
Didn't you see what we've done with Michigan? There are four versions of the diamond: the 1919, 1926, 1948 and current (1973) . U.S. Route 16 in Michigan was decommissioned in the 1960s, and all of its markers (I, US, M) are period accurate, to reflect how the markers looked at the time US 16 existed. A highway that stopped existing in the mid 1960s doesn't display in its article markers that weren't developed for another decade.
Let's take a hypothetical example here. Let's assume MDOT switched Michigan from a white diamond on a black square to a blue cutout trapezoid. If I overwrite every current Michigan marker, like File:M-64.svg, then the article for M-107, which was decommissioned in 2008, will get the blue trapezoid version of the the M-64 marker, even though that version never existed when M-107 existed. Instead, I'd upload the new markers under a new name. Then I'd set up the type codes in {{jct}} and {{infobox road}} to recognize a "M 1973" type for the now former diamond. The existing "M" type would use the new design markers, and I'd update the types in the affected decommissioned highways. Overwriting the files destroys the possibility of using the previous version of the markers. It also means that we would have to create (and constantly update) a list of which markers are which colors in an attempt to "teach" the templates which version of the banner tabs to use. We might have to rewrite parts of the templates to allow such a list to work.
I rarely issue any ultimatums around here, but I'll put you on notice. Reverse your course and upload the new markers under a new file name, or I will revert all of them that you've changed. Imzadi 1979  05:12, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
As a side note, commons:User:Holderca1/gallery/1 now shows your graphics, instead of the graphics that Holderca1 uploaded. Hmm... that's not a good thing either. Imzadi 1979  05:28, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Reverted some of them; I'm uploading under the file name "Louisiana XXXX 2008" instead of just "Louisiana XXXX" Mcdonaat 05:41, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

That's better. We can code the templates to look at that naming scheme instead of the current one. We can create a different type so that they can still use the older version, and the templates will know the difference to use black & white banner tabs with the new graphics and green & white tabs with the old graphics based on the types. Please revert the rest back to the original files. Create the set of graphics needed, and we'll do the process right in the templates. Imzadi 1979  05:49, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

In that case...can we work on getting a Michigan-like template set up, with the state-specific route markers for the US highways and Interstate highways? If it's worth it to get one template set up, might as well get the other ones set up too! I can make the year-spec shields in a snap. Mcdonaat 06:02, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
jct already handles the 1957 version Interstate shields (if they're created), the 1926, 1948 and 1961 version US Highways. For jct, the 1948 and 1961 USH shields aren't state-specific, while the 1957 Interstate and 1926 USHs are state-specific. Otherwise, it's a matter of creating the period versions of the state highway markers and adding those types, which isn't that hard. Imzadi 1979  06:19, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Checked the 1957 shields for Michigan, and can't find any general template for the sign. The 1926 US Highway templates are already about halfway being churned out. The shields are reverted, though. Sorry bout the confusion!! Mcdonaat 06:23, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
I used the California template, which is stuck in 1957. The only caveat is to double check what series font is used for the work INTERSTATE on the top because one version of the template had the wrong one. Once that's cleared up, it's otherwise that template. Imzadi 1979  06:27, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Works like a charm! The only problem I'm having is loading the 1926 spec shield in Inkscape... which font am I supposed to use with the state name? None are working right. Mcdonaat 06:45, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
There's a typeface called USHighwaysOldStyle that approximates it. You could post on the shields request page, or Fredddie might see the conversation here and get to it. (The font isn't quite right, and it's only one of the series. Fredddie was working on getting at least one shield created for each state so it's a matter of using that as a template and swapping the numbers out. Imzadi 1979  06:49, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
  I got one for Louisiana already. –Fredddie 11:57, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
The only thing is... could that be turned into a template? At least let me know which fonts you used, and I can pop em out for the 10+ US routes in Louisiana. Mcdonaat 22:08, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Sadly, no it can't. What I have I've had to cobble together from the various 1926 USH markers. I don't even have a complete alphabet. The idea behind creating at least shield for each state was that someone could take the header from one state and put it over the number of another shield. Example: you could download the   Arkansas US 61 and the   Iowa US 63 shields. Delete the Iowa name and copy/paste over the Arkansas name to the Iowa shield. Save and upload as 20px Arkansas US 63. –Fredddie 22:30, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for that!!! I have all of the 1926 Louisiana markers uploaded, but here's the real question: How would City Routes, By-Passes, and Temporary routes show up? The history section would have infoboxes for the routes, and especially since US 61, 190, 71, 80, and 90 all had the top crown wording say something other than Louisiana at one time, how should it show up? There is one instance of a road truncating at a City Route, and the state route was deleted before the change. In that case, it would be best to have the JCT box and Infobox show up as the alternate shield. Mcdonaat 01:11, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Michigan Meridian and Base Line: A Teaching Formulation for the Secondary School

Have the article you requested, please send me an email. OhanaUnitedTalk page 20:16, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I hope you saw my message above. It would be nice of you to reply whether you still need the article or not. OhanaUnitedTalk page 01:32, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Posted link at WP:RX#Michigan Meridian and Base Line: A Teaching Formulation for the Secondary School OhanaUnitedTalk page 01:44, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Ah, your 2 emails went to my hotmail spam folder. OhanaUnitedTalk page 05:33, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Credo Reference Update & Survey (your opinion requested)

Credo Reference, who generously donated 400 free Credo 250 research accounts to Wikipedia editors over the past two years, has offered to expand the program to include 100 additional reference resources. Credo wants Wikipedia editors to select which resources they want most. So, we put together a quick survey to do that:

It also asks some basic questions about what you like about the Credo program and what you might want to improve.

At this time only the initial 400 editors have accounts, but even if you do not have an account, you still might want to weigh in on which resources would be most valuable for the community (for example, through WikiProject Resource Exchange).

Also, if you have an account but no longer want to use it, please leave me a note so another editor can take your spot.

If you have any other questions or comments, drop by my talk page or email me at Cheers! Ocaasi t | c 17:19, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

M-156 (Michigan highway)

Just one issue. Very, very small.   Statυs (talk) 19:40, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Since the previous issue was worked out...

I'm updating an Interstate exit with a parish road, since the road is actually of some significance. It runs concurrent with a state highway, is signed, and even has directional banners (East and West). I tried to copy Florida's style, where the county name is used, and Florida's pages seem to link to the county article. However, Louisiana won't connect, and the link is still shown as black, with nothing to click. Any ideas? I've messed around with it at this page, and would like some help. It's Exit 132. Mcdonaat 21:27, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

{{Infobox road/LA/link PR}} is the subtemplate the controls the links for PRs in Louisiana. If you look in the code, you'd see that it is suppressing the link, unless the article already exists. This is the same behavior with Michigan's non-CDH primary county roads. To wit:    CR 510 / CR 550 links to CR 510 (article exists) but not CR 550 (that article is still in sandbox and doesn't yet exist. Imzadi 1979  23:53, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
The page actually does exist, and the links work, but the parish shield won't come up in the JCT, just the generic county route symbol. Is there any way to force it to show the symbol? Wikipedia used to actually display the shield, but now it's generic. Mcdonaat 00:25, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
You do realize that at 20px, no one can read anything but the number in the pentagon graphics? The only reason I have Michigan set up to require the county name for CRs is that some counties use the squares (like Marquette), a rare few counties use the pentagons (like Gogebic) and Delta has both green and white or black and white squares. There is no "generic" possibility for this state. In others that consistently use the pentagons, using the generic saves both time and effort in jct because we created one set for 1–999 and got every county or parish supported in one fell swoop. Imzadi 1979  00:42, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
True... the only exception would be Lincoln Parish, where the parish roads are marked by squares, but they use the MUTCD blue color. Mcdonaat 00:45, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
And are any of those going to be listed in a junction list? Remember, we typically limit state highways (I/US/state) to listing only junctions with other state highways unless: a) it's a freeway exit or b) it's a terminus. Some states, like Michigan, list classifications of CRs because they're explicitly marked on the state maps, but if you're not going to run into a PR from Lincoln Parish on an article, you're worrying about nothing. If it does, a simple switch can be added to call up the necessary graphics. Imzadi 1979  00:52, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

North Dakota Highways

Hey. Since the "North Dakota Highways 1-30" page is a self-published source, where do you reckon we'd be able to find a mileage source that is usable in a Good Article? I no longer live in North Dakota, so it would be pretty hard for me to find any sort of map. I would have replied on my own talk page, but it has been about a week since I last replied to you there. If I should do otherwise next time, please inform me.

--Thecatchernumbersevenjooooemauer 05:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

How you tried digging through the NDDOT website looking for a log a map and stuff? Imzadi 1979  05:26, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I've tried digging through there and it was a miracle I found the route markers. –Fredddie 05:28, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
The next thought I have is to politely ask someone. I e-mailed a pair of district offices at WisDOT. One was kind enough to mail me a paper inventory log for the district and tell me who to have my request forwarded to in other offices. In the end, I got two logs on paper and the other three in Excel files. I'm not saying that you'll get the same treatment, but if you make a polite request, you'll be amazed at what can happen. Imzadi 1979  05:32, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

North Dakota Highway 15

So, I looked for about 20 minutes...and I can't find any more history for North Dakota Highway 15. I did see some kind of house listing with the address listed as "Old Highway 15" in Northwood, which the route passes just north of. This may or may not mean it has been slightly realigned within cities in the past, but I can't seem to find when it was realigned, if it even was, or where the old alignment took place. For this reason, I'm not completely sure that an in-depth History section for this page, along with many other North Dakota Highway pages, is even needed. I would like your input on this, as I am trying as hard as I can to find stuff and coming up with nothing. On a different note, I also added the mileage for the page in question. --Thecatchernumbersevenjooooemauer 23:15, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

It's possible, but you don't have the sources. All highways have some sort of history that's been documented. NDDOT and its predecessor agencies have published maps of the state that will show the changing status of the highway system. If not them, Rand McNally and the other commercial publishers have. I mean, the Interstates in ND haven't always existed, so there will be some maps that exist from before their designation and construction that just don't show any freeways. If you have a sufficient archive of old maps, you can pin point timeframes for changes displayed in those maps, and thus construct a history section. Best of luck, Imzadi 1979  01:29, 13 July 2012 (UTC)


I have asked twice about any rule anyone might be following around a person's notablity and nobody has responded. I see that my comment was removed by yet another editor. I am willing to learn, but people don't seem to want to help me understand exactly what the definitions of notability are. I have looked and can't find any. John Maino does not have his own page, but he is referenced in two separate Wikipedia articles as being a radio personality in Northeast Wisconsin. Would references to those pages help people's views of his notability? Lutheran4life (talk) 14:21, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I see that Bkonrad replied on his talk page to your question. In short, my rule of thumb has always been that if a person is to be listed on a list of "notable people", they need to be notable enough to have their own article. You can't reference other Wikipedia articles though, but you could verify and re-use the citations from those pages. (Don't blindly copy the footnote as it could be wrong.) Imzadi 1979  17:52, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

your GAN Interstate 696


Very nice article! I've left a few comments for you to address at Talk:Interstate 696/GA1.

Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 19:20, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

No ORinttop template

So, I'm trying to update Interstate 5 in Oregon to the modern exit list, but I'm getting a red wikilink when I type in |ORinttop=exit it gives me {{ORinttop}}. (I typed a line and not an equals sign, so I have no idea why it's showing an equals sign between ORinttop and exit.) Am I just mistyping this or is there really no template? I noticed that Interstate 84 in Oregon is also using the old exit list format, which is most likely because the lack of an ORinttop template is derailing the whole table. I apologize if this issue has been brought up before, but I am trying to update the exit lists and this really isn't helping. Thanks for your time. --Thecatchernumbersevenjooooemauer 12:33, 15 July 2012 (UTC) (talk to me)

There's the generic {{jcttop}} that works for all states for the header of the table. I just created the template for you though. Not all states have had their state-specific templates created yet. Imzadi 1979  12:58, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

One more question. There is an exit on Interstate 5 in Oregon that is both the end of a concurrency and an exit with incomplete access. Which type do I use? Thecatchernumbersevenjooooemauer 16:42, 15 July 2012 (UTC) (talk to me)

Ignore that last question. I figured it out. Thecatchernumbersevenjooooemauer 17:26, 15 July 2012 (UTC) (talk to me)

your GAN M-104 (Michigan highway) passed!

Nice little article. Well done! Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 16:25, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

1924 Louisiana highway signs

Good news - LaDOTD said that the Department of Corrections manufactured the signs, so they would be the ones who held the rights to the design. The DOC has given the ALL CLEAR, and that we are free to use the design at will. With your permission, I would like to start by posting LA 6's article, titled "Louisiana Route 6," with the old pelican design. From there, I can do LA 1, LA 2, and so forth.Mcdonaat 22:27, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Just move slowly and methodically. If you need templates modified to correct outputs so you don't have anachronistic displays, ask. Use different |type= so that the templates can tell the difference between a modern highway and a long-decommissioned one. The next thing you'll need to determine is how to integrate the Routes into the browser system with the Highways. Assuming you have repeated numbers, WP:USRD/STDS says that for a state, the priority is Interstates first, US Highways second and then state highways third; states with multiple types of state highways are supposed to use some sort of locally defined priority. Texas is the biggest offender of this last part. Rather than come up with an order, say IH→USH→SH→Loops/Spurs→FM/RM→PR→RE, they only browse in order by type. In other words, RE 3 points backwards to RE 2 and forwards to RE 4 without any linkage to the other subsystems, against the standards. You'll need to decide if Highways take priority over Routes or vice versa.
For example, the browser for MI runs like M-1→US 2→M-3→...→US 10 →M-10→M-11→...→I-696→M-1 (makes a full loop). If you figure out where you're inserting the Routes into LA's scheme, and you get the templates and shield graphics set up, half of the organizational issues are solved. The other half would be to create a proper list, which you can build in a sandbox. Then as you create the articles, you can copy the lengths, dates, and citations into the table. Imzadi 1979  22:39, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I will need a few things for road junctions and infoboxes - the routes, once uploaded, will need to be accessed via type=LA 1924 like the old shields for Louisiana can be accessed via type=LA 1955. The files will be uploaded under Louisiana_Route_XX_(1924) and will be LA 1 through 98. I'm actually going to methodically upload LA 6 and LA 15 first, since they can be copied verbatim (almost) from the current articles... they never changed. From there, you can suggest the modifications, and I can go about making the other 96. I do need the infobox and jct templates modified to show the old shields, and I'll let you know when Commonist uploads them. Should be no longer than five minutes.
Looking at the browser, I would say that it should be like MI's. However, as of now, LA 98 would show LA 1 as the next route. We did have LA 51 along with US 51, LA 61 along with US 61, so in this case, US would come before LA. It would, of course, link to the current article, but show the old shield design. Those shields are already uploaded as Louisiana_Route_XX_1948. When the infobox and jct templates are changed to show the uploaded shields, then I'll port LA 6 and LA 15 over. The routes will be posted as "Lousiana Route XX", with a link at the top to direct people to the current routes if they went to the old article by mistake. Mcdonaat 22:55, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
So, hypothetically speaking, the order would be →I-6→US 6→Highway 6→Route 6→I-7→? Imzadi 1979  23:08, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Hypothetically speaking, it should have its own thing in a way. It should be LA 10 -> US 11 -> LA 11 -> LA 12 -> LA 13. You don't need people seeing Interstate shields when the Interstates were implimented after 1955. These pages are going to be separate from the rest of the highways, and in a way, like Texas. Historic routes are one thing, current routes are another. Historic routes, when finished, are without Interstates. Mcdonaat 23:12, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Except that's not the standard, and Texas is doing it wrong. In MI, I have →M-22→US 23→M-23*→US 24→M-24→US 25*→M-25→ even though M-23 and US 25 are decommissioned. M-23 became US 112 and is part of US 12 now, and US 25 was functionally replaced by I-75 and physically replaced by several highways including M-125, M-25 and M-3. The browser lists all highways for a state in a chain, not just the current ones. Imzadi 1979  23:19, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
It would be weird to actually have the browser, if it would just show duplicate routes (imagine LA 10→SR 10→I-10→SR 11→US 11→LA 12 etc. To make the page as smooth as possible, it would be preferred to have the old routes not show up in the browser. That way, no triple numberings show up. For the junction boxes, though, what would force the old shield to show up? Mcdonaat 23:29, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
MI's browser skips M-554; that article was merged into M-553's article, so rather than point to itself and then the next in line, I skipped it. If I-10 is also numbered LA 10 or SR 10, skip the duplicates. However, the standards are clear, you don't drop highways from the chain otherwise. Imzadi 1979  23:32, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
That's very, very confusing. How about we just go with the standard system. I would prefer not to put the boxes on the historic routes, since you would have SR 10, with LA 10 and I-10 to the left and right. Simplicity would seem to trump putting the browser on older routes since renumbered. Mcdonaat 23:38, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
The system is designed to connect all highway articles in a state together though. Imzadi 1979  23:46, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Will this require the manual editing of the already existing browser boxes, or will a bot change them? Mcdonaat 00:15, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
There is no bot for that, so yes, you'll have to update things manually. Imzadi 1979  00:15, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Got it! I have Commonist running right now, and I have shields 1-98 uploaded. They're located as  . I can;t figure out how to link to the certain page, but oh well. Let me know when the infobox and jct has been updated, and I can get to work on LA 6 and LA 15, then try and manage 1-10 tonight. I'll do a controlled creation, where things should work smoothly. Mcdonaat 00:24, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Nice! What's with the pink dots where the mounting holes go, though? –Fredddie 00:33, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Those are dots for the mounting holes :P The dots were there from the original template; it's also part of a guide to align the shield numbers if they ever need to be adjusted vertically. Mcdonaat 00:34, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I know their purpose. I'm asking why they look pink. –Fredddie 00:56, 18 July 2012 (UTC)


State Route 7
Route information
Highway system
  • Louisiana Highway System
  SR 6SR 8  

I'm working on the infobox now. I just need to figure out how to get the name to appear. Imzadi 1979  00:42, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Name appears. Let me know if I need to change it. On to the jct. Imzadi 1979  00:45, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
  SR 7 is done now too. The articles are to be titled "Louisiana State Route X". If this isn't right, let me know. Imzadi 1979  00:49, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
I just made sure, but the infobox sample has the browser working too. Imzadi 1979  00:53, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Awesome!!! The name is Louisiana State Route X, and the first article is up! Mcdonaat 00:56, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
BTW, I'm thinking that when you get a list created, I'll work my magic on that "Highway system" appearance. Just like CDHs and CRs in MI have different things that show up, we can switch that display. No rush, but something that we'll work on later. Imzadi 1979  01:02, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
That sounds awesome! Make that three up... LA 6, LA 91 and LA 15. Mcdonaat 01:54, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
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