User talk:Colonies Chris/Archive/2016/Apr

February 2016

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• [[File:Bill Buckner 810611.JPG|thumb|right|Buckner bats at [[Wrigley Field]] on June 11, 1981
• sells-418250 |title= Bill Buckner ball sells for $418,250}}</ref><ref name="CollectionSale3">">{{cite web |title= Auction record for Buckner Ball |url= http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7051&

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• March 1966, ''Boxer'' was the designated Atlantic prime recovery ship for [[Gemini 8]], although {{USS|Leonard F. Mason]] recovered the spacecraft and two crewmen.<ref>Blair, Don ''Splashdown!: NASA and the Navy'''' (

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Reference errors on 11 February

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Reason for removing "publisher" parameter from {{cite web}} template?

What's your reason for removing the "publisher" parameter from the {{cite web}} template? Is AWB doing that? Or is it a custom rule you wrote? I only ask because some of your edits get reverted because you're removing the "publisher" parameter. It's throwing out the baby with the bathwater because your entire edit is getting reverted and those are very useful and I don't want to lose them. If there's a good reason to revert the revert, then I'd love to use that as a rationale when re-reverting. Thanks! — X96lee15 (talk) 22:25, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi X96lee15: The purpose of a citation is to enable a reader to verify a statement in an article, and the publisher only helps with that in a few special cases. For example, no-one is assisted by being told that the New York Times is published by the New York Times Company. Nor is there any benefit from knowing that Billboard is (currently) published by Prometheus, or that Baseball-Reference is a part of Sports Reference. That's why the guidelines for the cite templates say "Not normally used for periodicals. Omit where the publisher's name is substantially the same as the name of the work". A few other editors seem rather stuck on the idea that because a parameter is there it should be filled in, but in most cases it's simply useless clutter, so I remove it. Colonies Chris (talk) 23:36, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Makes perfect sense. Thanks. — X96lee15 (talk) 14:00, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Introducing redirects

Why are you doing that, here for example? Are you checking what you're doing with AWB? The Rambling Man (talk) 12:37, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Please be more specific. Which change are you referring to? Colonies Chris (talk) 12:41, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

I've given you the diff, you've introduced redirects in that edit, and I don't understand why you're misusing AWB to do it. Please stop. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:43, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

There are a lot of changes in that diff; which one(s) in particular are you concerned about? Colonies Chris (talk) 12:45, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Shouldn't take you long to discover which redirects you've introduced. E.g. Washington Statesmen, Cleveland Blues, Pittsburg Alleghenys ... The Rambling Man (talk) 12:48, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm fully aware what redirects I've introduced. What I don't understand is why you have a problem with them. The existing markup uses piping in a clumsy and inflexible way, where it should be using redirects - to take a straightforward example, "Brooklyn Bridegrooms" was piped to Los Angeles Dodgers; I've removed the piping so that a click on it will redirect to the better destination History of the Brooklyn Dodgers. In the case of the Washington Statesmen, it now pipes to the specific team it's referring to: Washington Statesmen (1891), which is a redirect to the umbrella article Washington Senators (1891–99). Similar reasons apply to the other examples you've quoted. Colonies Chris (talk) 13:11, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

I see, my mistake, I hadn't realised that AWB was to be used to introduce your personal intepretation of what links are best by adding redirects. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:19, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

If you have a problem with my use of AWB, I'm sure you know where to go to make a complaint. Colonies Chris (talk) 14:29, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

I sure do! The Rambling Man (talk) 14:39, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps you need to add a note to your AWB explaining your edits. Why, for instance, you think it's better to piplink "Cleveland Blues" to "Cleveland Blues (AL)" which then redirects to "Cleveland Indians" when the previous version of the article already piplinked to "Cleveland Blues" to "Cleveland Indians" without a redirect? Without explanation, this makes no sense. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:02, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

(←) I'm always willing to explain my edits to anyone who asks. As you are an experienced editor, you will of course be aware of the general principles that piping should define a link that's more specific than the visible text, and a redirect is appropriate where there is no article on that exact topic. To quote from Wikipedia:Piped_link#When_not_to_use "It is generally not good practice to pipe links simply to avoid redirects. The number of links to a redirect page can be a useful gauge of when it would be helpful to spin off a subtopic of an article into its own page. However, while [[target|redirect]] is unhelpful, [[redirect|target]] is helpful." A piped link to "Cleveland Blues (AL)" is a very good example of both of those principles in practice. The "(AL)" specifies exactly which version of the Cleveland Blues is under discussion, and the redirect takes the reader (at negligible cost, as redirects are cheap) to the closest relevant article. Colonies Chris (talk) 15:33, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes, and as an experienced editor, you will certainly understand that the deliberate introduction of piped redirects is highly confusing to the majority of editors, so adding suitable text in your automated edit summaries is highly recommended. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:41, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Additionally, in a related but somewhat distinct aspect, I highly advise you to not automatically delink anything without checking if it truly is a case of overlinking. Because I cannot imagine any scenario where a link to Washington, D.C. would not be considered highly relevant to the Washington Nationals article, and therefore clearly not overlinking. I have restored the links, and would really strongly suggest you never automatically unlink something just because it's on some list (which we cannot see) of supposedly well-known geographic names. Sometimes a link to New York City, London, Washington, D.C. or other such cities are completely appropriate, and not in any fashion overlinking. A sports team based in that city should absolutely link to the article on the city. Be more careful, and don't edit so mechanically. oknazevad (talk) 17:05, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

I don't agree that anyone is likely to use a link to an extremely well-known major city such as those. It's hardly likely that someone who is choosing to read about a city's baseball team is going to wonder "New York City - where on Earth is that?", and click on the link to find out. The fact is important - the link is not. Only more specific location links, such as to the name of the ground, or the district it's located in, are likely to be of interest to a reader. I don't edit mechanically - every edit I make is my conscious choice. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. Colonies Chris (talk) 17:59, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

But you are not entitled to keep making the same edits that have been clearly reverted four times in the last few weeks by multiple editors, as you have tried to do at Major League Baseball. Please stop removing links from the chart of teams, as there's clearly consensus to include them and to have consistent formatting of all cities (and states) regardless of city size and prominence. Note that keeping consistent formatting for all chart entries is an explicit exemption from OVERLINK. It's clear that only you are trying to force these edits; making substantially the same edits only to be reverted by a different editor each time over a period of three weeks is a slow-motion edit war on your part, and disrespectful of the obvious consensus. Please cease. oknazevad (talk) 15:03, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

What reverts are you referring to? I haven't received any complaints, or notifications of reverts, except from yourself. What consensus are you referring to? Where has this consensus been reached? Colonies Chris (talk) 15:10, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Then you should actually examine the edit history of the article. Immediately after your substatially identical edits on February 14 and February 24 users immediately manually restored the links that you removed from the chart. That constitutes a revert even if it was not done by using the undo button.

As for the substance, such links are standard at the articles for every professional sports league in North America, including the NFL, NBA, NHL, CFL, MLS and dozens of minor leagues. And it has been that way for over a decade. So both in the broad consensus of thousands of edits by hundreds of editors on dozens of articles that did not remove such links, it's clear that there is consensus to keep them. More specifically and locally, that they were restored immediately after you removed them three times in as many weeks tells me that there is definitely consensus to keep those links. oknazevad (talk) 15:24, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

I've just looked at the edit history. I see that I made these changes on 14 Feb, and a few hours later some of them were partially and clumsily reverted by an IP - a job done so badly that it created four links to disambiguation pages. A registered editor subsequently fixed the problems the IP had created. I then made some similar changes on 24 Feb, and the same IP partially and clumsily reverted again, and had to be corrected again by a second registered editor. At no time did any editor come to me with a complaint or objection. The only reversion by an editor who appears to know what they're doing is from you. I'll steer clear of this article of you feel so strongly about it - but don't try to give the impression that you're supported by a consensus - there's only one other editor, who's not even registered, and it doesn't look like the sort of company you'd want to be associated with. Colonies Chris (talk) 15:47, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Again, when hundreds of edits pass without anyone else seeing the need to remove this links, and when it's formatting that is consistent with dozens of other articles, I'd call that clear consensus. oknazevad (talk) 16:56, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

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List of Major League Baseball players (Mc–Mg)

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March 2016

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Alex Burnett

added a link pointing to Miguel González (baseball)

Pacific Coast League

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Check your edits

{{S-end}} needs to be on a separate line, I've fixed them for you, but check next time. — Dispenser 15:31, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing them, but this had nothing to do with me. The {{s-start}}and {{s-end}} templates were added by User:Typhoon2013 in June 2014. My recent changes were completely unrelated. And also, I don't see the problem - the earlier version of these pages, with the template on the same line, appears to render perfectly, at least in my browser (Opera). There must have been some change in the underlying software, because earlier versions don't show any problems even though the template is on the same line. Colonies Chris (talk) 17:49, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Follow-up:the only significant difference appears to be the placing of the {{disambig}} tag; AWB's general fixes moved it (correctly) from above the succession box to below it, and this seems to have upset the behaviour of the {{s-start}} / {{s-end}} templates. I'll notify AWB that moving the {{s-end}} template to a separate line should be added to general fixes. Colonies Chris (talk) 17:58, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Makes sense. The script looks for id="disambigbox" in the output HTML. That bit was eliminated by the tables colliding. — Dispenser 02:33, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 18

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2013 Baltimore Orioles season

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Hello, Colonies Chris. You have new messages at Lubbockite's talk page.
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Reference errors on 19 March

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Baseball Almanac

I noticed that your AWB edits to change Baseball Almanac in references don't take into account when a work parameter already exists. Specifically, in this edit, you changed <ref name=dugout>{{cite web |url=http://www.baseball-almanac.com/dugout0e.shtml |title=Cy Young : A Life In Baseball |accessdate=2007-06-23 |work= Dr. Donald McKim |publisher=''baseball-almanac.com'' |date= }}</ref> to <ref name=dugout>{{cite web |url=http://www.baseball-almanac.com/dugout0e.shtml |title=Cy Young : A Life In Baseball |accessdate=2007-06-23 |work= Dr. Donald McKim |work=Baseball Almanac |date= }}</ref>, causing the "work" parameter to become duplicated, and placing the page in Category:Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls. Jackmcbarn (talk) 03:07, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Jackmcbarn - I certainly should have noticed this and fixed it, but it was wrong before I touched it - the 'work' parameter is not the right place for the name of the author of the book being reviewed. It's not really needed at all here: the 'title' parameter would be best matching the title on the webpage. I've made that change now. Colonies Chris (talk) 09:54, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Death of Starr Faithfull

Hi there, I saw you used AWB to edit Death of Starr Faithfull. I understand the rationale for a number of the changes made (such as not linking locations in reference cites or even including them where the location is obvious from the name of the source, e.g. New York Times probably doesn't need location New York City listed) but it seems like there were several changes that introduced errors. So far I've found three:

• the Wikilinked phrase "President of the United States" was left as "President of the United State" with broken end bracket;
• a newspaper name where a link changed was left as a redlink;
• parameter punctuation (equals sign) taken out of a reference field.

If possible when using AWB on a large article could a little more caution be taken to avoid leaving these errors, which can be hard to track down in a large article? I realize that maybe a bot lets you know about some of them so you can go back and fix later, but I'm skeptical that the bot would catch everything, and if there is a way to avoid it in the first place it's also less work on either you or me (whichever of us spots and fixes it first). I'm also a bit leery of the removal of the location from some of the references. For example, I can understand removing it from "The New York Times" or any other paper with an obvious location in the title, but removing the location from Newsday cite does not make sense to me as there is nothing in the title of Newsday indicating where Newsday is located, and it is a newspaper, not a national publication like Time. TheBlinkster (talk) 05:04, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi TheBlinkster -

• Sorry about the redlink: I intended to create a redirect to fix it, but forgot - I've done that now.
• The inaccurate unlinking of Potus and the missing equals sign were keyboard clumsiness on my part I should have noticed.
• With Newsday, my inclination was to remove the location because it's a regional newspaper rather than a local one, and the location isn't necessary to define it; but I recognise there's room for a difference of opinion on that one. Colonies Chris (talk) 10:07, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your understanding and for fixing the redlink. I feel a bit nit picky for pointing it out when it's just a few things, but the flip side is if I don't say anything then it gives rise to the "done it 1000 times and no one complained" argument. Cheers, TheBlinkster (talk) 14:24, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Phillies, Baseball year

I see you've capitalized the first "b" in

{{baseball year|...}}

in the infobox on Philadelphia Phillies. While proper casing is always a good thing, here it isn't necessary:

Case sensitivity. Links are not sensitive to initial capitalization, so there is no need to use piping where the only difference between the text and the target is the case of the initial letter (Wikipedia article titles almost always begin with a capital, whereas the linked words in context often do not). However, links are case-sensitive for all but the initial character. (MOS:PIPE)

Since the link is unaffected by the initial letter's case, there's no point in changing it back, so I haven't.

Please {{Ping}} me to discuss. Regards, Thnidu (talk) 22:13, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

@Thnidu: Thanks, I'm aware that initial capitalisation doesn't matter. This change is only made in conjunction with another more significant change - in this case, converting a hyphen between the start and end years of a range to an endash. I've adusted my regexes so that it will retain whichever initial character (B/b) is present, rather than always setting it to capital B. Colonies Chris (talk) 23:12, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

@Colonies Chris: Thanks, that "-" → "–" is right on, for the software that deals with those ranges more than for human readers. (Incidentally, listening to concert music and with my (quite fast) reading always running a bit ahead of my comprehension, I initially saw your initial "B/b" as "B♭"!) --Thnidu (talk) 23:53, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

PS: Some jerk is messing with your user page. --Thnidu (talk) 23:55, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 22 March

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Reference errors on 30 March

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Speedy deletion nomination of King Nangklao Memorial Day

Hello Colonies Chris,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged King Nangklao Memorial Day for deletion, because it doesn't appear to contain any encyclopedic content. Take a look at our suggestions for essential content in short articles to learn what should be included.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Vinod 09:02, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for the changes to James Beament. My improvements to that page had kindof fallen through the cracks and your edits are certainly very welcome! DaltonCastle (talk) 21:19, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 1 April

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