Template:Did you know nominations/Storme Webber

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:36, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

Storme Webber

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~~... that Storme Webber left her family and entered foster care at eleven years old?~~

Reviewed: Gebhard Fugel

Created by RachelWex (talk). Nominated by Paul2520 (talk) at 05:39, 14 November 2019 (UTC).

Article needs more referencing. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 10:13, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

The unsourced parts are the career section paragraph 2 & 4. Alongside Film Appearances, and Exhibits section. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 07:01, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: link foster care in hook and cite the unsourced parts. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 12:23, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, CAPTAIN MEDUSA. I added references at the requested places & wikilinked foster care both in the hook & article. What do you think? = paul2520 (talk) 23:23, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

: Good to go. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 07:36, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Hi, I came by to promote this, but the hook seems to imply that she left her family on her own volition, whereas the article only says she entered foster care. I'd like to suggest that the hook focus more on her as a person and her accomplishments/notability. Yoninah (talk) 20:53, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, Yoninah.

The cited source ([1]) does quote Webber, “I left home by my own choice; there was a lot of drama in my family”; do you think we should add that to the article?

Alternatively:

ALT1 ... that Storme Webber is a two-spirit interdisciplinary artist who has been featured in four documentaries?

= paul2520 (talk) 15:25, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

@Paul2520: ALT1 is cute, but it doesn't really say anything about her. You could combine the mention of her being a two-spirit artist with a mention of some of the work she has done. The average reader (like me) will have no idea that she is LGBTQ by the term "two-spirit"; you could also explain what that means in your hook wording. Yoninah (talk) 00:01, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

@Yoninah: How are these?

ALT2 ... that interdisciplinary artist Storme Webber's The Casino combines archival photographs and storytelling with an art installation?

ALT3 ~~... that interdisciplinary artist Storme Webber's works include an ancestral mix tape, a combination of archival photographs and storytelling, and poetry?~~

I like the idea of adding ...two-spirit... before Storme Webber. Sure, maybe "the average reader" won't know what that means, but isn't that the point of the wikilink?

= paul2520 (talk) 02:38, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. ALT2 could be improved by saying what The Casino is. ALT3 is on the way, though I would write it this way:
ALT3a: ~~... that the works of two-spirit interdisciplinary artist Storme Webber include an ancestral mix tape, which combines archival photographs, storytelling, and poetry?~~
But you have some really close paraphrasing here:
Source: Blues Divine, an ancestral mix tape and tribute, consists of a book of poems and accompanying soundtrack/audio book spoken in Webber's own voice.
Article: Blues Divine is an ancestral mix tape and tribute, which includes a poetry book accompanied by an audio book/soundtrack spoken in Webber's voice.
Yoninah (talk) 00:29, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

@Yoninah: I'm good with ALT3a. I also updated the article wording; can you review? = paul2520 (talk) 04:22, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

ALT2a ... that interdisciplinary artist Storme Webber's palimpsest The Casino combines archival photographs and storytelling with an art installation to tell a family history involving one of the oldest gay bars on the West Coast?
ALT3b: ~~... that the interdisciplinary works of two-spirit artist Storme Webber include an ancestral mix tape with spoken word poetry, and a palimpsest combining archival photographs and storytelling?~~ --evrik ^(talk) 16:53, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

~~{{DYKtick}} Approving Alt 3a, though I am offering 3b as a choice for the promoter.~~ --evrik ^(talk) 16:53, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

@Evrik: Hooks ALT3a and ALT3b are incorrectly combining two works. There is an ancestral mix tape that combines a poetry book with an audiobook, and a museum exhibit that combines archival photographs and storytelling with an art installation to record the history of The Casino. ALT2 could work if it adds something about what the Casino was. I was planning to get to this tomorrow. Yoninah (talk) 23:54, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

I redid 3b to separate the works. I also took a stab at 2, though if 2a is used, the article will have to be modified to explain what the casino is. --evrik ^(talk) 17:11, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

@Evrik and Yoninah: the article mentions that the Casino is "one of the oldest gay bars on the West Coast", citing [2]. = paul2520 (talk) 20:02, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Since "palimpsest" is the name of the exhibit, I don't understand why it's being used this way in the hooks. I suggest this alt:

ALT2b: ~~... that two-spirit artist Storme Webber used several mediums to retell her family's experience at The Casino, one of the oldest gay bars on the West Coast?~~

@Paul2520: I would like to link The Casino, but it is redirecting to Double Header, and no mention is made of The Casino in the latter article. Yoninah (talk) 20:41, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Yoninah, two of the four refs in that article mention The Casino as the night club in Double Header's basement. That article needs some expansion. I can do so, and possibly enough to include in the DYK? Can we tack it on as a nom, assuming I get it to reach the criteria? I'm thinking 5x expansion is totally doable... = paul2520 (talk) 21:08, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

@Paul2520: are we talking about Double Header (Seattle)? That article is only two lines long and doesn't mention The Casino. Yoninah (talk) 21:14, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

@Yoninah: Correct, but two of the four refs do & the article could easily be expanded. I could possibly do so tonight or this weekend. = paul2520 (talk) 21:20, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

@Paul2520: I think that's a great idea for a double hook. Go for it! Yoninah (talk) 21:22, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

I created the redirect today and am working on The Casino, as part of Double Header (Seattle). It may take me a day or two to write some quality text. --evrik ^(talk) 01:15, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

evrik I started to work on this earlier. See User:Paul2520/sandbox. I realized quickly they were different bars, so a different article, rather than a redirect, should be created. We can collaborate, but I'm happy to put more time in it myself. = paul2520 (talk) 05:49, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

As an aside, yes we can collaborate. --evrik ^(talk) 16:12, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Anyone want to review the current nominated hooks? --evrik ^(talk) 16:12, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

@Evrik: Yoninah has reviewed. Let's hold off on getting another reviewer; I'm working on getting the The Casino (Seattle) up to the criteria so it can be included in the hook. = paul2520 (talk) 17:27, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Go for the single and get a second DYK with the Casino. --evrik ^(talk) 19:48, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

@Evrik: If The Casino is part of the hook, why not go for a double hook? Yoninah (talk) 16:41, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

@Yoninah: The Casino (Seattle) is now over the minimum prose size, and I believe it meets the rest of the DYK requirements. What's the next step? Can you review as part of this nom, or do I need to go through the regular DYK process for it? I would then modify the hook to be:

ALT2c: ... that two-spirit artist Storme Webber used several mediums to retell her family's experience at The Casino, one of the oldest gay bars on the West Coast?

Let me know what you think. = paul2520 (talk) 05:57, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Great job! This nomination can stay on the same template as a double hook. I have added both you and evrik to the DYK credits for The Casino article. Since I wrote the ALT2c hook, I'm unable to review it. Pinging original reviewer @CAPTAIN MEDUSA: to review The Casino and ALT2c, or else we just need another reviewer. Best, Yoninah (talk) 09:44, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Yoninah, I need another QPQ. Thanks. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 09:48, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

@CAPTAIN MEDUSA: Right. Donating one of mine: Template:Did you know nominations/JUDITH KATZIR. Yoninah (talk) 09:53, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

ready for DYK. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 09:56, 15 December 2019 (UTC)