Talk:The Good Old Song

Virginia Hail, All Hail

Per the citation needed on the alma mater in this revision, there is at least one source that confirms that "Virginia Hail, All Hail" is the University's alma mater:

"Traditions". VirginiaSports.com. Retrieved 2009-04-20. In 1923, the college newspaper, College Topics, held a contest to choose an official alma mater and fight song. John Albert Morrow, Class of '23, won the alma mater contest with "Virginia, Hail All Hail," while "The Cavalier Song," written by Lawrence Haywood Lee, Jr., Class of '24, with music by Fulton Lewis, Jr., Class of '25, was chosen the best fight song. Although both songs failed to become part of University tradition, "The Cavalier Song" inspired the nickname "Cavaliers."

I am looking for a more definitive/reliable source, but unless I find a different alma mater that postdates 1923 this reference can be used to support the point in the main article.

Then how do you explain "both songs failed to become part of University tradition"? That clause underscores the point that this song is NOT treated by anyone as the "alma mater." The Glee Club sings "Virginia, Hail All Hail" as an intro to the Good Ole Song, but other than that, the Good Ole Song is universal as the alma mater, including being sung at graduation (err, Final Exercises) on the Lawn every year. 1995hoo (talk) 17:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I guess it's a de facto vs. de jure question. While there is clearly evidence that there was a winner of that 1923 alma mater contest, there is no comparable evidence that there was ever an official choice of the Good Old Song to replace it. As you say, though, it's far more prevalent. So which one should get the honor? I think we should go with Dabney (Mr. Jefferson's University, 114) on this one:

"The Good Old Song" is generally considered to have been the university's official alma mater song since about 1900, but it has never been formally adopted as such. In fact, student contests were held in 1923 for the best "alma mater song" and the best "fight song." John Albert Morrow won the alma mater contest with "Virginia, Hail All Hail" while Lawrence Lee and Fulton Lewis, Jr., were judged to have produced the best fight tune with "The Cavalier Song." Neither production made much impact; "Virginia, Hail All Hail" was forgotten almost at once and "The Cavalier Song" was heard thereafter at only rare intervals, despite periodic protests that the students should learn it and sing it at games, and the band should play it. "The Good Old Song," to the sedate rhythms of "Old Lang Syne," is far from being a fight song, but nothing else has caught the fancy of the average student of alumnus.

So it's not right to call it the official alma mater, but it should be acknowledged as the de facto alma mater. I'll update the article accordingly. - Tjarrett (talk) 01:14, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I think the wording you used works pretty well. Like so many traditions at UVA, I don't think anything has ever really been "official" as to any of the musical stuff. It's not like we view "traditions" in the same way as many other schools do, that's for sure. 1995hoo (talk) 02:25, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Controversy section -> Unofficial additions

I started simply to restore the version from July 2018, because the blanking was inappropriate (right? even if it's not a current practice, it's cited and historically valid info). The restoration in the version prior to this left out the citations. At second thought, I tried to clean up the page a bit along with putting stuff back the way it was. I'm hoping I got this all right. - B.S. Lawrence (talk) 16:54, 25 November 2018 (UTC)