Talk:Stephen Fry

Jew or Jewish

Re this recent edit, what is the exact distinction? Is it possible to be a Jew but not Jewish, or vice versa? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:16, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

I was curious about this myself. I can see a distinction between ethnically Jewish and spiritually Jewish, but I've never heard that distinction applied to Jew versus Jewish. DonIago (talk) 18:02, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm guessing that Fry was emphasising his ethnicity, as he has "identified himself as an atheist and humanist" and so does not practice the Jewish faith. Perhaps this is what User:972thoughts212roots intended to reflect? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:17, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

My (limited) understanding is that, given that the word "Jew" has historically been used as a pejorative term, many Jews are now reclaiming it as a positive affirmation of their ethnicity and/or religion, rather than using the vaguer term "Jewish". Somewhat similar to queer people reclaiming the term "queer". See https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/05/jew-not-slur/ Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:26, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. Could he not just go with: "face-blind queer Jew (who's allergic to champagne)"? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:37, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

If I can step in: if you identify as Jewish (converted; have ancestry - it is an ethnoreligious identity remember), you can say "I am a Jew" or say "I'm Jewish". Same difference basically. Many Jewish friends of mine use the phrases interchangably. Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:44, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough. Do we know that Fry thinks the same way as you do on this matter? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Only he can say so for sure but I have seen him on QI where he refers to himself as "I'm Jewish" numerous times. But the bottom line is either way is acceptable. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:34, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Academic background

Is it correct that he took until the age of 20 to pass two A-Levels including a Grade B, despite which he still got into Cambridge? If so, with just two A-Levels on entry he must have been among the lowest-qualified people ever to attend the university, including Princes Charles and Edward.

The English S-Level is not remotely equivalent to another A-Level - it was just a supplementary Lit Crit paper.Tirailleur (talk) 15:13, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Well, the article essays "... he passed two A-Levels in English and French, with grades of A and B. He also received a grade A in an alternative O-Level in the Study of Art." But the single source presented, which may or may not support these claims, is now a permanent dead link. Thanks to the Oxbridge tradition of entrance exams, however, very many more people may have attended these universities with even lower grades. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:34, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

They may, I guess, but it would be extraordinary to be invited to sit the entrance exam at all with only A1B, where everyone else sits three and was usually sporting AAA or AAB. Three are generally insisted on because if you've spread your effort across only two subjects, you obviously have an advantage over those who have sat three or even four, in the sense you had twice as much bandwidth. The fact he got a scholarship to Queens' was what made me question this, because if he's that able, did he really not manage three A Levels like everyone else?

I'm also not sure the "alternative O-Level" is right. There was a thing called an AO-Level which stood for Advanced, not alternative, and was typically sat by people who might go on to do the A Level but had not yet decided. I did three or four of these, which helpfully filled the timetable up a bit. They're in no way equivalent to another A Level, although they might be now - AO Maths included calculus and probability, which nowadays are considered A Level material. Tirailleur (talk) 16:45, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Don't the entrance exams usually occur before the A-level results are known? It seems in Fry's case not. Note that General Certificate of Education says this:

"An additional GCE qualification, the Alternative Ordinary Level (AO Level), was formerly available in most subject areas. Sometimes incorrectly known as the Advanced Ordinary Level, the AO Level syllabus and examination both assumed a higher degree of maturity on the part of candidates, and employed teaching methods more commonly associated with A Level study. The AO Level was discontinued, with final admissions in 1987 and final qualifications awarded in 1988."

So that might be worth linking? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:37, 6 February 2024 (UTC)