Talk:Stamford University (England)

Legendary precursor

User:TSP, thank you for writing this. I think the Legendary precursor section should come at the end as it emerges after the historical institution, what do you think?

I have tweaked the first sentence to include John Hardyng, whose chronicle could possibly be quoted (chapter xxv).

• Google books link: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=UvQ9AQAAMAAJ
• Digitised version at University of Michigan: https://quod.lib.umich.edu/c/cme/CME00023 TSventon (talk) 23:59, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks - I thought it weird that an institution with a fair bit of historical significance, even if it only lasted for two years, didn't have even a subheading in the Stamford article (in contrast to University of Northampton (13th century)).

There's a fair bit more to add - the Brasenose Monographs document, which I've cited briefly, has a lot more in, particularly about the suppression of the institution, how it took multiple efforts over two years, and various records on the numbers of students and tutors during the suppression stage.

I'm mildly inclined to keep the legendary institution first because, had it existed, it would have preceded the medieval university? Hardyng is the first we know of it, but our current source says it appears in several early modern sources, and I'm not sure it is clear that Hardyng originated the legend and that the legend didn't exist in some form prior to the real institution. But not deeply opposed to moving it later. TSP (talk) 10:40, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

The final page of the John Clark's essay says "We cannot know the part played by oral tradition in the early development of the Bladud story; our records are literary, and reflect a history of literary transmission and antiquarian speculation", On page 44 he summarises Hardyng's narrative, then says that "enhancement of the story" was popular with later writers. I think we need to reflect the known development of the written legend, rather than of an unknown oral tradition. Clark doesn't say that Hardyng invented the story but does say that his version influenced later writers.

I think the structure of the article should follow other university articles: Oxford has history in section 2 followed by Oxford in literature and other media in section 7. (I see Bladud's Stamford University as a literary version of the medieval university.) TSventon (talk) 13:07, 31 March 2021 (UTC) Quotation corrected 1 April 2021. TSventon (talk) 13:44, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

I think that logic is a bit of a leap - I don't think of our sources establish that Bladud's Stamford University was a literary version of the medieval university, so presenting it as such would be WP:OR.

Clark is saying it is unknowable whether it is an earlier oral tradition, or invented in 1444. That doesn't mean that need have to decide which of these we think is true - per WP:NPOV, we reflect the uncertainty in the sources.

I'm not vastly opposed to the idea of it being moved down as a matter of secondary importance; but I do personally feel it fits a bit better first, as that is where the legend places it chronologically; and I think specifically framing it as definitely a later invention based on the medieval university would be to go beyond the sources. TSP (talk) 19:24, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree that my opinion that Bladud's Stamford University was a literary version of the medieval university would be WP:OR in the article, but I believe that opinions are allowed on talk pages.

We seem to disagree on what Clark is saying but hopefully can agree that the content of the article should reflect what reliable sources say.

On the location of the legendary university, I wanted to see if you agreed it should be moved to the end. As you don’t I am happy to leave it until more editors get involved. TSventon (talk) 14:21, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Article image askew

The main article image should be rotated 90 degrees anti-clockwise as it’s currently askew. 2A00:23C5:FE08:2900:5DE4:98B8:2955:CF8F (talk) 10:50, 17 December 2021 (UTC)