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Talk:Ernest Shackleton

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Frequently asked questions (FAQ)
Q1: Why is Shackleton described as British even though he was born in Ireland?
A1: The entire island of Ireland was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland when Shackleton was born. Shackleton and his Anglo-Irish family were therefore technically British citizens. Additionally, Shackleton is not known to have ever described himself as or considered himself to be ‘Irish’. Indeed, he was a committed British Unionist and opposed Irish Home Rule (self-government) as a member of the Liberal Unionist Party. In Shackleton’s era, Irish national identity was overwhelmingly exclusive to Roman Catholics. Protestants like Shackleton overwhelmingly identified as British and valued Ireland’s political and cultural relationship with Great Britain. This is due to the fact that Britishness and Protestantism were inextricably linked. Many Protestants feared Irish nationalism due to its links with republicanism and Catholicism. British is therefore a more accurate descriptor of Shackleton as it fits his cultural identity and political ideology.
Q2: Would Anglo-Irish be a better description of Shackleton’s nationality?
A2: The historical term ‘Anglo-Irish’ applies to a cultural and political class that once existed in Ireland. It does not refer to a distinct nationality or even an ethnicity. This class of people were mostly ethnically and culturally English. Most considered themselves to be British and opposed Irish nationalism.
Ernest Shackleton is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 17, 2012.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 13, 2008Good article nomineeListed
January 14, 2008Peer reviewReviewed
January 31, 2008Featured article candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article

RfcEdit

Shackleton's mother (Gavan) was a mixture of Cork and Kerry stock, for centuries. To describe her as a result of the "Anglo-Norman invasion" of Ireland (this occurring in the 12th century) whilst likely, seems so tenuous a connection across the centuries as to be dust. Beyond yet another, tedious attempt to distance Shackleton from Ireland (where he was born), how relevant is this? I share a variation of this surname, and yes, my family acknowledges the Anglo-Norman connection (almost a millennium ago). We are descended from the Norman family, Gauvain; the name was anglicised after the invasion of 1171. I can find no evidence that Shackleton's mother ever advertised such a fact, nor did Shackleton; any more than John Smith from Lancaster might insist that he is descended from Visigoths, or Romans. Or Adam. Is this in any way relevant? Mike Galvin (talk) 23:08, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

From the cited source:
It would seem the current article doesn't reflect what the source actually said. I'd be happy to see it changed. WCMemail 13:35, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Indeed. Given the intermarriage between Norman and (presumably) Celtic stock in twelfth century Ireland, it is likely that a large percentage of modern Irish have at least a drop or two from the Norman gene pool. Misquotation of the source aside, I still see no relevance in the observation. Mike Galvin (talk) 23:59, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Removal of Alexandra Shackleton/Caird quoteEdit

A well sourced addition to the piece (James Caird Society, of which Alexandra Shackleton is President) has been arbitrarily deleted. It simply quotes the source that Shackleton took lifelong pride in his Irish roots, and frequently declared himself "an Irishman". I do not think this in any way neutralises his Anglo-Irishness, but since it was Shackleton's own sentiment, is there any reason it should not be included? Mike Galvin (talk) 23:21, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

It hasn't been removed. DuncanHill (talk) 23:40, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
As I explained in an edit summary when I moved it, the lead shouldn't contain things not in the article body: see WP:LEAD. DrKay (talk) 06:55, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

So I see. Apologies. Mike Galvin (talk) 12:39, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 October 2019Edit

Correction and clarification on some information relating to the discovery of Shackleton's whisky under ice. This is something that has been incorrectly reported on recently by news outlets, so we'd like to clarify this as there seems to be confusion around how the whisky was discovered, as well as the whisky that was later produced.

Please update the final paragraph under "Nimrod Expedition" to:

In January 2010, New Zealand Antarctic Heritage trust conservators found five crates of alcohol encased in ice under Shackleton’s 1908 Antarctic base – three contained Mackinlay’s Rare Old Highland Malt whisky and two contained brandy. The three whisky crates were excavated, and three of the bottles were flown to Scotland for analysis by the Mackinlay’s brand owner, Whyte and Mackay. A revival of the vintage—and since lost—formula of Mackinlay’s Whisky has since been offered for sale with a portion of the proceeds benefiting the New Zealand Antarctic Heritage Trust.

Please also update under "Legacy, Later" the following:

In 2011, three bottles of the whisky discovered from the Nimrod expedition in 2010 were flown to Scotland and analysed by Whyte and Mackay at the Invergordon Spirit Laboratory. In 2011 a limited-edition recreation of Mackinlay’s Rare Old Highland Malt was later released for sale to the public, followed by a second release in 2012. In 2016, Whyte and Mackay released a permanent expression based on the recipe from the Mackinlay’s Rare Old Highland Malt discovered in 2010 eponymously named Shackleton Whisky.

185.7.228.125 (talk) 13:49, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. You've provided none (e.g. flown to Scotland, name of the whisky, and the three separate releases of the recreation/revival all need to be sourced. In addition, USA Today says there were five crates of whisky, not three. NiciVampireHeart 07:33, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Apologies - please see the following sources:

Flown to Scotland - https://scotchwhisky.com/whiskypedia/2129/mackinlay-s/ and https://whiskyanalysis.com/index.php/2018/07/16/mackinlays-shackleton-blended-malt/ Name of the Whisky - https://scotchwhisky.com/whiskypedia/2129/mackinlay-s/ Recreation/Revival - https://scotchwhisky.com/magazine/latest-news/13645/shackleton-blended-malt-inspired-by-explorer/

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