Talk:Senchus fer n-Alban

Copyvio ?

Unless the text following the subheader Senchus Fer n-Alban in versions 51653826 and earlier is a very lucky effort at translation, it would appear to be transcribed from a copyrighted work. Excepting the editorial comment, not reproduced, it appears to match very closely John Bannerman's translation of the Senchus in his Studies in the History of Dalriada, pp. 47–49, first published 1974. So far as I am aware, and the British Library catalogue concurs, John Bannerman is very much alive (and even if he is not, he was alive in 1997) so that his work is under copyright. Accordingly, I have removed the offending material. Angus McLellan (Talk) 19:25, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

"Senchus fer n-Alban" or Míniugud senchasa fer nAlban?

Just a query about the title of this article: the well-known Senchus fer nAlban, or the more accurate Míniugud senchasa fer nAlban?

The MS rubric is Míniugud senchasa fer nAlban, as used recently in print by David Dumville (D.N. Dumville, ‘Ireland and North Britain in the Earlier Middle Ages: Contexts for Míniugud Senchasa Fher nAlban’ in C. Ó Baoill & N.R. McGuire, Rannsachadh na Gáidhlig 2000: Papers read at the Conference of Scottish Gaelic Studies 2000 (Aberdeen 2002), 185-209; cf. also D.N. Dumville ‘Cethri Prímchenéla Dáil Riata’, Scottish Gaelic Studies xx (2000), pp. 170-191).

Additionally, as Eoin MacNeill pointed out more than ninety years ago, míniugud senchasa seems to be a particular genre of Irish genealogy, ‘the downward tracing of kindreds from a common ancestor’ (John Mac Neill, ‘Notes on the Laud Genealogies’, Zeitschrift für celtische Philologie viii (1912), pp. 411-419, at p. 412, n. 1): the phrase míniugud senchasa is thus relevant in any proper understanding of the work, and its meaning helps define the extent of the text to which the rubric properly applies.

As to where Senchus fer nAlban comes from, I've found no occurrence earlier than A.O. Anderson's Early Sources of Scottish History. He initially (vol. i. p. lxxxvii) refers to the text as ‘Senchus Albanach’, then prints a translation (p. cl), under the heading ‘Senchus Fer n-Alban’, but with the rubric translated ‘... the abbreviation of the history of the men of Scotland’. Míniugud is also treated as an integral part of the MS title in the translations of W. F. Skene, Picts and Scots, p. 308 (‘Explanation of the History...’), and John Bannerman, Studies in the History of Dalriada (Edinburgh, 1974), p. 47 (‘A statement of the history....’). However, Bannerman (p. 27), introduces the text in his introduction as ‘The Senchus fer nAlban, “History of the Men of Scotland”’.

If anyone reading this has any other references to the text as "the Senchus" alongside Early Sources and Bannerman, I'd be delighted to know about them! --AJN 13:36, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

It is referred to as "the Senchus" (or "the Senchus") in Sharpe, "The thriving of Dalriada" (2000) and in Campbell, "Were the Scots Irish ?" (2001). Angus McLellan (Talk) 14:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant older references, ie before/contemporary with Bannerman's work, or even before Early Sources. ::blushes:: But thanks! --AJN 13:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Eric Genealogist Edit: In referenced to such historians as John Bannerman, UK Authors such as Stephen R. Lawhead, I would like to remind the authors of this Wikipedia page that there still exists to this day, Breheny-Brewer-Brewster descendants of the bloodlines of King Fergus "Mac Gillomar" (Mac Gillicuddy)-Fergus Mor mac Eirc b. 499-501AD Dd. 585AD, (possible stepson of) Fergus Mor mac Eirc Du Alicia Breheny b. 519 AD Dying in battle at 50yrs old 569AD, (I add this specific name since King Fergus MacGillicuddy might of had atleast 6 other wives since his first wife of the Clan MacDarmaid had died in childbirth), Eochaid Muinremuir b. Aprx 519AD Dd. Age 63 582AD, Loarn mac Eirc (Erc)b. 546AD Dd. Age 86 632AD. In additon to the other Breheny Clansmen and Clanswomen of some 44 generations spanning some 2,200 years whom the last of the such known bloodlines live in Nova Scotia, Canada in the Annapolis Valley. We have called ourselves various names, such as Breheny, Brehons, Brewers, Braoses, Manns, Mohons etc. My ancestors filtered themselves slowly from what is now Antrim, Ireland to the 3 kingdom Dalriata-Alba in North-Eastern Scotland to Northern Britain; in the llth Century we became knights that went with King William "The Conqueror" and had our names written in the Domesday Books as landholders by William Brewers 2nd and the 3rd.

I would like to add the following names as a continuation to the above information compiled written above. This is a list of names that may be related to the Breheny 4th Clan of King Fergus MacGillomar (MacGillicuddy); these names are of the Kings and Queens of Scandinavia that might have been mixed up in my family genealogy and whom may be a mixing of the Irish-Scandinavian tracings of the Irish Arthurians that one can obviously understand. The Above stated names may give a total of some 150 years past the Dark Age Years of King Arthur Pendragons birth and death of 502-12AD to 565AD Aprox.

Personal Genealogy Exerpts Sheets Of "eric_historian" Ancestory.com: Page 1 Family Number (1) Braut-Onunt Ingvarsson King Of Sweden b. 638AD, (2)Ingjald Braut-Onundsson King Of Sweden b. 660AD-Wife: Gathid Algautsson b. 664AD, (3)Olaf "Tree Hewer" Ingjald King Of Vestfold b. 682AD, (4) Halfdan "White Leg" Olafsson King Of The Uplanders Norway b. 704AD, (5) Eystein I Halfdansson King of Vestfold, (6) Eystien II Halfdansson-Eirkdatter b. 725AD, (7) Halfdan II Milldi Eysteinsson King Of Vestfold b. 750AD, (8) Ivar I Oplaendinge H Jarl Of Norway b. 778AD, (9) Eystein Glumra I Jarl Of The Upplands b. 810AD. I will give an overview of the names that will be below and the dates of their births: (10) Rognvald "The Wise" E Jarl Of More b. 830AD, (11) Rollo Rognvaldsson Duke Of Normandy b. 860AD, (12) William "Longsword" Duke Of Normandy b. 891AD, (13) Richard I "The Fearless" Duke Of France b. 933AD, (14) Richard II "The Good" Duke Of Normandy b. 963AD, (15) Alice Of Normandy, (16) Robert I "The Magnificent" Duke Of Normandy b. 999AD Dd. 1035AD, (17) William I "The Conqueror" King Of Britain b. 1024AD Dd. 1087AD.

We helped stop the French-British Wars and made the Jersey Islands part of Britain and my ancestors built the Torrie Abbey and Torrie Manorhouse that is now an British Historical Site. By the Early 15th Century to the Early 16th Century my ancestor an William Brewster 3rd was a postmaster of Scrooby Manor and before this time was Secretary Of Foreign Affairs to Queen Elizabeth 1st. Unfortunately for William Brewster 3rd, Queen Elizabeth 1st had also made him second Bailiff Of The Tower Of London, thus having him help execute Mary Queen Of The Scots. William Brewster 3rd was forced into Exile and escaped by chartering the sailing ship Mayflower in helping settle the New World in 1621AD; my ancestors of the Mac Gillicuddy bloodlines by the family patriarch of Samuel Brewster 3rd, had left the US Colonies at 1761AD and settled in Nova Scotia, Canada at Cornwallis Townships. It is for this reason and the histories that I have cited that more work needs to be done in proving the factual history and genealogy of the 4 Clan Of Gweniyivere of the Breheny and understanding that indeed we still live.

Disclaimer: I add the dates of births and deaths to give proffessional Genealogists and Proffessional Historians a valid timeline in which to work untill the actual dates of births and deaths can be established. Stephen R Lawhead in his research of his fantastic books "The Pendragon Cycle" certainly makes use of a timeline that is possible and his characterizations of the Irish clans as well as the English Dark Age Barrony does pave the way to a historical King Arthur Pendragon being born and disappearing at about 565AD. I think most historians agree that there was an King Fergusson MacGillicuddy and his birth was mostlikely between 499AD to 501AD.

Eric GenealogistEric Genealogist (talk) 04:39, 29 March 2011 (UTC)Eric Genealogist (talk) 04:28, 29 March 2011 (UTC)Eric Genealogist (talk) 04:16, 29 March 2011 (UTC)Eric Genealogist (talk) 00:54, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Eric Genealogist (talk • contribs) 15:47, 28 March 2011 (UTC)