Talk:Sejm

To do/check

In the PLC:

• could a law pass without King's support? Since when?
• before the Nihil Novi, could King's lack of support stop the legislation entirely?
• could the King propose the legislation himself?
• did the Senate dignitaries had a vote in the Sejm - what was their power beside being advisors to the King? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:54, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

To translate more from PWN entry. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 14:14, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

To translate Polish wiki template: pl:Szablon:Posłowie kadencji PRL i RP. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 13:28, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Category:Sejm

What do you think about a specific category for specific sejm sub-types (like confederated) and famous Sejm (like Silent or Contract)?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 19:18, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

About how many articles are candidates? Anyway, sounds ok to me. Deuar 18:56, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

We have about 10 articles listed now in Sejm#See_also, and although there are only a few Sejm-types, I think eventually every Sejm office term (pl:kadencja - how is it translated into English?) is notable and deserves it's own article (and of those we may have even a hundred or more, eventually).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 20:34, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

"term of office" i suspect, although there's no article by that name. Deuar 12:29, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Contemporary Sejm

I think the current article has far too little (relatively) about the present Sejm. The impression you get from a brief look at the article is that the most important things happened centuries ago. I would also like to suggest that the historical section be moved below discussion of the present Sejm. Deuar 12:29, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I usually prefer for history to go before the main. But you are right that the present needs to be expanded... I am pretty sure one can find info about the present Sejm in English and online (on their pages) rather easily.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 22:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

PRL Sejm

Just a point of clarification:

The Sejm in the People's Republic of Poland was to have 460 deputies

So did it actually have 460 members? If not how many were there. Also, did the number of members change with the years? Deuar 21:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Tnx for the catch, I fixed it ('had'). I have no info on the number changing.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 02:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Initially, Sejm consisted of 425 members. About 1960 there was simply no room for additional armchairs, so the number has been fixed (Act of December 22, 1960; effective Dec 27). Picus viridis 15:36, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Very interesting! Typical for PRL ith those armchairs ;-) Deuar 14:58, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

National Assembly

The National Assembly is not the name of the Polish Parliament: "The National Assembly (Zgromadzenie Narodowe) is the name of both chambers of the Polish parliament, the Sejm and the Senate, when sitting in joint session." Barry Kent 20:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Sejm of the People's Republic of Poland

This paragraph is idiotic. There existed a partially free Sejm with PSL and later all Sejms were staged. As one deputy wrote (Kruczek ?) - they visited Warsaw to buy basic products.Xx236 08:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Basic data

How many Sejms were there in II RP, PRL, III RP? Xx236 08:50, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Source tags

Sorry I had to use so many (and they're appearing weird b/w sections) but there's really only one section that has references (and they're not that wonderful, sadly). I didn't want to use a big fat totally no-sources tag at the top, and also didn't want to up the text, so this was the only way. I copyedited pretty much the whole article & can't work on sourcing right now (no time); I'm hoping someone who knows more about the Sejm can work on it awhile, maybe. Thankee -- Sugarbat (talk) 02:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh -- P.S. I forgot to mention I removed some Polish terms for things that didn't seem necessary to reiterate in Polish. For the record: It's probably a good idea to try not to use other languages in an English article unless the terms/phrases will interest/educate the reader (use your best judgment). In some cases, giving translations does little more than clutter up the article, and in the worst cases (I'm seeing this a lot, for some reason, in a bunch of Poland-related articles -- but not just there) people are forgetting to provide the English terms altogether. Just be carefulz, is all I'm saying. SB

Category:National lower houses vs. Category:Sejm

Category:Sejm is itself a category within Category:National lower houses. — Robert Greer (talk) 15:00, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

So? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:36, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Membership update for December 2010

After looking at the nice membership graph in the side infobox recently, I noticed that it's horribly out of date for the current Sejm as of this moment. The chart does not indicate recent developments from by-elections, the collapse of the LiD in 2008, and the party split by rebellious PiS members to form the PJN at the end of 2010. If someone can recreate the chart to reflect current changes, that would be great. Miles530 (talk) 06:09, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Not B-class

I have reviewed this article for WP:POLAND and it does not meet B-class criteria: little if any references, only history section is seems somewhat comprehensive - little on organization, nothing on function, nothing on election procedures, there are probably other areas that need to be covered. It is barely C class, perhaps should even be just start class. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:30, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Chambers?

You can read here: 'In the Kingdom of Poland Sejm referred to the entire three-chamber parliament of Poland, comprising the lower house (Chamber of Envoys; Polish: Izba Poselska), the upper house (Senate; Polish: Senat) and the King'. Obviously, the King is no chamber. All the three elements indispensable for the functioning of ordinary Polish-Lithuanian diets should be referred to as 'estates of the diet' (Pol. stany sejmujące). I do not deem it necessary to find exact equivalents for the early modern institutions in the language of the present-day politics. That world was simply different and we should try to respect it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.31.229.156 (talk) 20:32, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Women in Sejm

Roza Pomeranc-Meltzerowa was elected not in 1919 but 1922. Source - Polish Sejm base https://bs.sejm.gov.pl/F/HDG1KL7SRYS7CY98217SV4JKPIL3SVPX9KPI2M7BHVI1D6VQ75-07426?func=full-set-set&set_number=041367&set_entry=000001&format=999 But a number of Polish women were elected in 1919, for example Gabriela Balicka https://bs.sejm.gov.pl/F/HDG1KL7SRYS7CY98217SV4JKPIL3SVPX9KPI2M7BHVI1D6VQ75-68650?func=find-b&request=balicka&find_code=WRD&adjacent=N&x=41&y=9 or Zofia Sokolnicka https://bs.sejm.gov.pl/F/HDG1KL7SRYS7CY98217SV4JKPIL3SVPX9KPI2M7BHVI1D6VQ75-69150?func=full-set-set&set_number=041791&set_entry=000001&format=999 31.172.189.130 (talk) 13:04, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Agreement

@Arasakacorp: Agreement left the coalition [1] [2] Braganza (talk) 20:34, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

not oficially + 2 or more MPs will stay within Law and Justice structures (possibly as members of The Republicans). Arasakacorp (talk) 21:36, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

@Arasakacorp:: what do you mean by officially? A source would be great here to provide clarification. Until that, I think it would be best to revert the edit.

Name of the new party in Konfederacja

I'm not sure how this stuff gets decided (consensus?) but I feel like "Liberters" doesn't sound too good. I don't think it's an actual word at least. Maybe "Liberalists"? Means basically the same thing but is different enough from "liberal" or "libertarian". — Preceding unsigned comment added by CrimsonCube (talk • contribs) 13:47, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Current Government

There is an official minority government of Morawiecki. The information should be changed to show Law and Justice as government rather than current majority vs. minority way 144.82.8.157 (talk) 19:12, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Tusk is not the prime minister yet

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Tusk is not yet the prime minister, neither has he yet been chosen by the Sejm. (There are currently ongoing talks about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4WtsVXtxXg )

Morawiecki, despite failing at receiving the vote of confidence, is still the prime minister until Tusk is sworn by the president (which will probably happen on December 13) - please refer to Article 154(3) of the Polish constitution, as well as some additional sources like https://www.prezydent.pl/prezydent/kompetencje/desygnowanie-i-powolywanie-premiera-i-rady-ministrow and https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/kiedy-mateusz-morawiecki-przestanie-byc-premierem-donald-tusk-musi-czekac/eq07bjg Max19582 (talk) 17:26, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

They just voted him as a new pm like 10 min ago Luentez (talk) 18:01, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

As of 6:49 PM Polish time, Tusk has been appointed by the Sejm. This makes him the appointee, not the PM. Please refer to the links above again. Max19582 (talk) 18:01, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Okay ur right I forgot about that lol Luentez (talk) 18:03, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

He is PM already. Until the President swears him in, he is the acting PM. Morawiecki was voted out. 79.191.69.91 (talk) 18:09, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

per https://www.prezydent.pl/prezydent/kompetencje/desygnowanie-i-powolywanie-premiera-i-rady-ministrow :

"Prezydent powołuje tak wybraną Radę Ministrów i odbiera przysięgę od jej członków." ("The President appoints so selected Council of Ministers and takes the oath of office from its members.") Max19582 (talk) 18:12, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

This is just a formality. See the debate about the EU council summit VS date of swearing in by the President. 79.191.69.91 (talk) 18:47, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Exactly, the debate was focused on appointing Tusk before the summit, so he could officially attend as the PM. Max19582 (talk) 18:55, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Additional sources to back our claim:

https://dorzeczy.pl/kraj/512085/tusk-premierem-poleci-w-nowej-roli-na-szczyt-ue.html - Rząd Donalda Tuska ma zostać zaprzysiężony 13 grudnia rano. To oznacza, że już jako premier weźmie udział w szczycie UE-Bałkany Zachodnie.

(Donald Tusk's government is to be sworn in on the morning of December 13. This means that he will already be attending the EU-Western Balkans summit as prime minister.)

https://wiadomosci.radiozet.pl/polska/polityka/nieoficjalnie-tusk-dogadal-sie-z-duda-ws-zaprzysiezenia-rzadu-ustalono-date - Nowy rząd Donalda Tuska zostanie zaprzysiężony przez prezydenta Andrzeja Dudę rano 13 grudnia - poinformowała Wirtualna Polska. Dzięki temu lider KO już jako premier pojedzie kilka godzin później do Brukseli i będzie reprezentował Polskę na szczycie UE-Bałkany Zachodnie.

(Donald Tusk's new government will be sworn in by President Andrzej Duda on the morning of December 13, Wirtualna Polska reported. As a result, the KO leader will already go to Brussels a few hours later as prime minister and will represent Poland at the EU-Western Balkans summit.) Max19582 (talk) 19:00, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Additionally, the Polish Wikipedia also still lists Morawiecki as the PM. https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premierzy_Polski Max19582 (talk) 19:03, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

This is just to avoid any ambiguity. All experts agree that even if Duda didn't swear Tusk in, he could still fly to Brussels as PM:

https://www.tokfm.pl/Tokfm/7,103087,30437003,duda-bedzie-zwlekal-z-zaprzysiezeniem-rzadu-tuska-wypowiedzenie.amp

DoRzeczy is a right wing newspaper and not reliable, BTW 79.191.69.91 (talk) 19:09, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

The article doesn't address any of that. In addition, the Polish Wikipedia editors also agree that Morawiecki remains the PM until Tusk being sworn in: https://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Premierzy_Polski&diff=prev&oldid=72061981

Once again, per https://www.prezydent.pl/prezydent/kompetencje/desygnowanie-i-powolywanie-premiera-i-rady-ministrow, "Prezydent powołuje tak wybraną Radę Ministrów i odbiera przysięgę od jej członków." ("The President appoints so selected Council of Ministers and takes the oath of office from its members.") Max19582 (talk) 19:15, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

That is correct Tusk is prime minister. Octilllion (talk) 18:29, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Can you provide sources to back your claim? Max19582 (talk) 18:30, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

https://x.com/gibandych/status/1734292019894219240?s=46 The presidential minister herself calls Tusk PM so does the President on twitter Octilllion (talk) 20:42, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

This seems like a reliable source. I think we can change it now, and in case anyone objects, come back to discussing the issue. Max19582 (talk) 20:50, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

I replied to @Max19582 on their talk page, but to clarify for the purpose of this discussion: Tusk was nominated and confirmed by the Sejm but is not yet PM; Morawiecki will remain as acting PM until December 13 when Tusk is going to be sworn in. Some WP:RS below; there are plenty more. Please wait to make relevant edits until then.

• https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/11/world/europe/poland-donald-tusk-government.html Mr. Tusk, a veteran centrist politician who led Poland from 2007 to 2014, is expected to be sworn in on Wednesday by President Andrzej Duda, an ally of Law and Justice.
• https://www.ft.com/content/c86aad61-2ebd-4c57-a07c-096089000d91 Tusk will have to wait until Wednesday to be signed into office by President Andrzej Duda, who is a PiS appointee and has played along with the rightwing party’s stalling tactics since the elections.
• https://polskieradio24.pl/5/1222/artykul/3298285,dymisja-rzadu-mateusza-morawieckiego-przyjeta-do-srody-gabinet-bedzie-dalej-sprawowal-obowiazki Andrzej Duda accepted the resignation of the Council of Ministers submitted by Mateusz Morawiecki on December 11. The president entrusted Prime Minister Morawiecki's cabinet with continuing to perform duties until a new government is appointed - it was reported on the president's website. (translated)

Thanks, Ppt91^talk 23:56, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

The presidential inauguration in the second const step is only a formality. President only appoints the PM in the first and third step. Tusk is already PM Octilllion (talk) 12:44, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

This is becoming repetitive and slowly but surely approaches the level of "unconstructive". Wikipedia relies on reliable sources. Another clarification is provided here: Until Prime Minister Tusk and his ministers are sworn in by the president, Prime Minister Morawiecki and his ministers should perform their duties. From the constitutional point of view, this oath completes the second constitutional step - emphasizes Dr. Hab. Ryszard Piotrowski. The second constitutional step is the election of the Prime Minister by the Sejm, after the president's candidate from the first step does not receive a vote of confidence. (translated) https://www.gazetaprawna.pl/wiadomosci/kraj/artykuly/9378972,kto-dzis-rzadzi-kto-jest-premierem-a-kto-administruje.html

Please do not make any further changes until tomorrow when he is sworn in. Ppt91^talk 19:01, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Regarding the current standings section.

Should this be written as it is, where the number of deputies is also displayed as of 26th of january 2024? Technically untill the Marchal unsuccesfully reseats this place, this is still reserved for someone who ran from the PiS electoral list. This should only be changed if all available candidates for that seat have refused to take it up (as is speculated for ex-MP Wąsik's and ex-MP Kamiński's seats). This is only a procedural wait, and will change very quickly, making this information inaccurate and potentially missleading (two of the seats have already been reseated, making is inaccurate as of 9th of February).

The number of seats per party's election list doesn't change in any other way than elections. ASwiergocki (talk) 01:19, 9 February 2024 (UTC)