Talk:Prince of Wales

Article or section slanted

Just getting the ball rolling here. It seems the article has been tagged as being slanted towards recent events. So, how do we solve this problem? I would like to once more suggest a coat of arms section, this would be perfect to connect the native (Celtic) Princes to the modern day Prince by explaining the use of Llywelyn's banner of Aberffraw. Any other ideas? Cltjames (talk) 20:24, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

The English/British heirs-apparent are the most notable individuals, concerning holders of the title 'prince of Wales'. That's what this page should & is presenting. GoodDay (talk) 08:01, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@GoodDay the {Recentism|} banner is highlighting that section, correct. The section mentions: first Prince MOS:QUOTATIONS; titles and roles missed 600 years; Insignia could add various coat of arms and badge again missing key information regarding transition of 600 years; then 1911-1969-2022. So immediately the section seems to be covering the 14th and 20th centuries & 21st briefly, however, the 15th to 19th centuries are practically missing. In terms of consensus, what do users think that should be added ? Cltjames (talk) 09:54, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@Cltjames, The banner was added in this edit under the § Heirs apparent to the English or British thrones section by @RadioactiveBoulevardier, with the summary tag for recentism (e.g. zero discussion of 1911 investiture at which the future Edward VIII spoke in Welsh). Although the section seems to have the 1911 investiture, was this recently added? Unless they're arguing for more detail and possibly earlier investitures? So nothing to do with native-born princes nor expanding details of such, which per the discussion above seems no clear consensus for. DankJae 11:04, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

OK, I see. So, technically the banner can be removed... However, I think I've raised a fair point in suggesting a missing link between mentions in the 15th to 19th centuries, except a quote from 1607 which is out of place and can technically be moved to the origins section. Then under titles and roles, a {see also|Honours of the Principality of Wales or link can be added. Also, the insignia section can be greatly expanded to include the numerous successive coats of arms used by the Prince of Wales as there is no mention of the 8 different arms that evolved, Coat of arms of the Prince of Wales#English/British Heir Apparent. Like you said @DankJae:, the article may need an overhaul, and I have found some weaknesses that can be strengthened for now. Cltjames (talk) 11:21, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, the 1911 investiture was recently added. A nice demonstration of why detailed "reason" parameters are helpful. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 20:20, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

There's still a huge gap between the investment of Edward of Caernarfon and that of his namesake in 1911. Without going into the details of all the intervening holders of the title (we already have a table), there must have been some noteworthy events relating to the title over those six centuries. Rosbif73 (talk) 08:09, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Could mention the anomaly of brothers Arthur and Henry Tudor both holding the title consecutively. Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:02, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

...and the subsequent historic religious break with Rome as a result of both being betrothed to the same woman? Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:19, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Henry's use of the title for himself was also significant in that he was asserting himself as a native born prince of Wales. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:28, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Don't think that's right; Henry VIII's article gives his birth as Greenwich. It was Henry VII who was born in Wales, but was never PoW. Tony Holkham (Talk) 11:15, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, this is a key link to explaining the genealogical connection between Llywelyn the Great of the House of Aberffraw, and King Henry VII of England, thus connecting the native (Celtic) pre 1283 claimants and the Anglo-Norman Princes of Wales. Cltjames (talk) 11:40, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Another Prince of Wales worthy of mention here might be Frederick, the most recent Prince of Wales not to inherit the throne. And coincidentally, Frederick also almost married a Lady Diana Spencer! Rosbif73 (talk) 11:00, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

In the same vein, Edward VIII became king, but never crowned (the only PoW this applied to?), but my addition of that anomaly was removed as unrelated to the article topic. Tony Holkham (Talk) 11:19, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Edward, Prince of Wales, year of abdication as Edward VIII is incorrect

The year in the table is recorded as 1937. It should be 1936. 2A00:23C8:338F:C01:F484:95FF:FE26:6AAE (talk) 22:41, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

 Done Tony Holkham (Talk) 22:50, 16 March 2024 (UTC)