Talk:Gqeberha

Update the Executive Mayor's name

The new Mayor is Gary van Niekerk (NA) 196.45.26.164 (talk) 09:08, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Done Greenman (talk) 10:01, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Mayoral vacancy

@Dylan Fourie: Your comments are aggressive and unwelcome. Telling people to "stick to editing stuff you know" because you can't find a proper source will just get you blocked. Experienced editors have tried to help you by pointing you to the guidelines on how to contribute constructively - I suggest you read them, including WP:AGF before making any more edits. You actually seemed to try to follow Toddy1's advice while telling them to stick what they know, but the improved source you added says, in the very first sentence "possibly leaving the city without a mayor", which is hardly definitive. I'll revert your changes until there's clarity. Greenman (talk) 14:05, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

IPA/English of Gqeberha

Someone please add International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) of 'Gqeberha', so that we can know how to pronounce it in English. Ragnarvrollo (talk) 06:02, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Not unless there is an WP:RS showing how English speakers pronounce it, obviously. See also #Sound file request above. Nardog (talk) 17:28, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Collins English Dictionary gives its British English IPA as kɛˈbɛəxə.— MarkH₂₁^talk 18:40, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

@Nardog According to the reference of Collins English Dictionary that you provided, it’s 'kɛˈbɛəxə'. Not 'kɛˈbɛərxə' as you written. There’s no 'r' in the IPA of the reference. Ragnarvrollo (talk) 13:30, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Again see WP:DIAPHONEMIC. You can't link to Help:IPA/English and have /ɛə/ not followed by /r/. That's why {{IPAc-en|ɛə}} produces /ɛər/. Nardog (talk) 13:36, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Pronunciation Respelling Key

As the pronunciation of 'Gqeberha' is a bit peculiar for English speakers, I believe adding a Pronunciation Respelling Key would be more helpful. Ragnarvrollo (talk) 05:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Done. Nardog (talk) 08:16, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Is this (keb-AIR-khə) how Gqeberha pronounced in English? Ragnarvrollo (talk) 15:11, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

It is a reiteration of what Collins gives, as is /kɛˈbɛərxə/. We don't know whether Collins is purely descriptively documenting how English speakers actually pronounce it, or simply giving an approximation to the Xhosa pronunciation using English sounds. Nardog (talk) 23:07, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Is Gqeberha actually used?

The article states ' The city's name change was officially gazetted on 23 February 2021, although the new name remains poorly used locally as of 2023. '. Then why the name is changed to Gqeberha? Wikipedia policy is to use known names, not per se official names (eg. Turkey vs Türkiye). Uitenhage is a comparable example and is still named Uitenhage. I suggest a name chage to the dominant name: Port Elizabeth. Especially since the majority of the cities population is Afrikaans and English speaking. Wester (talk) 22:28, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

The title was changed because sources have largely adopted the name Gqeberha. But thank you for pointing out Uitenhage, will have to examine that one more closely. nableezy - 22:32, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, I'm confident Gqberha won't be a commonly used name in English just for how illegible it is to the average English speaker. A quick search does seem to show Port Elizabeth as the commonly used name still. Traumnovelle (talk) 01:33, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

None of these are reliable sources. One is a blog, one is a moving company, and the last is an autogenerated TripAdvisor page that also has a Gqeberha version. — MarkH₂₁^talk 02:54, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I agree. And still most English sources use Port Elizabeth. The last wide consensus was on Port Elizabeth. Navarran94 (talk) 01:59, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

There was unanimous consensus in the the last move discussion for the rename to Gqeberha due to the English language reliable source usage of the new name since 2022. — MarkH₂₁^talk 02:57, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 10 February 2024

I would like to edit this page because they did not write about public schools they only wrote about private only so I wanted to fix that but I can't because you closed it . 41.114.143.174 (talk) 19:24, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

How did you edit 41.114.143.174 (talk) 19:26, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Nardog (talk) 19:27, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Name changed

Still, most English-speaking sources refer to the city as Port Elizabeth. Gqeberha is illegible in English. Because some RS also mention this new name just because it's the official one doesn't remove the fact that the most used name and found in English sources in English are Port Elizabeth (Google or Google Scholar sources) also notice that 75% of the population of Port Elizabeth are either Afrikaans or English speakers, and virtually most of them still using Port Elizabeth. Navarran94 (talk) 02:04, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

There was a requested move, your reverting that undiscussed is wholly out of process and I am restoring the name that consensus was reached for. nableezy - 02:07, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

The last approved move was Port Elizabeth, which is also the main (by very far) most used name in English.

That's why the page could be renamed again. Feel free to do a RfC for a proper consensus if you want to put a word that's illegible in English. Navarran94 (talk) 02:10, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Nope, this is the last discussion on this topic, and it was a consensus for Gqeberha. nableezy - 02:11, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

The overwhelming majority of reliable sources since 2022 use "Gqeberha" to refer to the place in their own voice. Keep in mind that a raw search will find historical references to the place as well as the many other places and entities named Port Elizabeth. — MarkH₂₁^talk 02:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

They might use it because it's the official (and also imposed name as far as I can see, I don't know how a Sports and Culture minister of an entire country gives himself the permission to change the name of a city without doing a referendum within the local population of that city), but 3 thirds - 75% of the population are officially identified as Afrikaans and English speakers, and virtually no one of them says anything else than Port Elizabeth.

This new word is not even properly legible in English but well, if you say there was a consensus I won't do any other change... thing is that I deal with South African companies and haven't seen one yet from Port Elizabeth signing as based in Qberha but all still say Port Elizabeth, South Africa or Port Elizabeth, ZA. Just to let you know... but I won't make any further moves.

If you see on 14th February 2024 this was also mentioned. That locally, very few people use other names that are not Port Elizabeth. The media uses just what's official by the government, but that doesn't make it the most common thoigh. I'm not South African but I agree that I have never heard of another name for Port Elizabeth overseas even once. But as I have said priorly, I won't do further changes. Navarran94 (talk) 02:30, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Name change

Why was the name changed in 2022 but the entire category tree left at Category:Port Elizabeth? This is in addition to many other articles such as Lorraine, Port Elizabeth, Timeline of Port Elizabeth and Metropolitan routes in Port Elizabeth left in place. AusLondonder (talk) 12:09, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Does it make any sense rewriting the town's history to use a name that reliable sources for that history did not use?-- Toddy1 (talk) 12:24, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Not sure what that's got to do with the categorisation scheme nor with related articles such as one about roads. AusLondonder (talk) 12:27, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

The Apple Express

An editor has deleted the section on the Apple Express as unsourced.^[1] I considered restoring it, and adding citations from the article on the Apple Express, but there are significant differences between the deleted section and the Apple Express article. So what is needed is for someone to go through the sources used by Apple Express and see what they really do support.-- Toddy1 (talk) 06:47, 5 April 2024 (UTC)