Talk:Piano Concerto No. 1 (Tchaikovsky)

Who premiered this work?

Nikolai Grigoryevich Rubinstein says differently.

That article doesn't disagree anymore. Rubinstein commisioned the concerto, but when it was finished he hated it and refused to play it so von Bulow premiered it. DavidRF 02:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Sheet Music at Commons

File:Tchaikowski-concerto-piano-theme.png

Found this at Wikimedia Commons. Not sure if we should incorporate this into article. Centy 01:27, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Désirée Artôt

Please see Désirée Artôt for some interesting conjectures about this concerto. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:16, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Recording

This morning, I recorded the opening to this concerto; the file has been uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tchaikovsky--PianoConcerto1.ogg). Should I include it in the article? Danny Sepley (talk) 18:54, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

No. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:05, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Main theme?

Why is the D-flat theme from the introduction listed as the main theme? That should be the folk tune in B-flat minor, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike 40R (talk • contribs) 05:40, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Fake folk-tunes?

Hi!

I can not find any of the following songs:

• the Ukrainian folk song “Oy, kryatshe, kryatshe…”
• the French chansonette, “Il faut s’amuser, danser et rire”
• a Ukrainian "vsnyanka"
• the Russian folk song “Podoydi, podoydy vo Tsar-Gorod”

I think that this paragraph is false, that these songs do not exist. I am grandson of Ukrainian, and I don't know the “Oy, kryatshe, kryatshe…” song. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leonardo Wonsik (talk • contribs) 23:35, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

vsnyanka is called " Viidi,viidi, Ivanku " So 3 borrowed themes.

The fourth ( Podoydu, podoydu vo Tsar-Gorod ) is No. 30 in Tchaikovsky s collection of 50 Russian folksongs ,

although in this case modification has been made by Tchaikovsky — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mek25His (talk • contribs) 14:14, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

1875

Am I reading this right? After a discussion of the Boston premier, the paragraph goes on to state that, "However, the work fared much better at its performance in New York City on November 22, under Walter Damrosch." In 1875? Walter Damrosch would have been 13. Machofe (talk) 04:07, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

"Surprisingly, the movement does not revert to the tonic minor"

Why is that surprising? There are plenty of other minor key works whose first movements end in major. (Some examples are Brahms' Symphony no. 1 and Clarinet Sonata no. 1, Chopin's Piano Sonatas nos. 2 and 3, Dvorak's Cello Concerto, Haydn's Symphonies nos. 80, 83 and 95 and String Quartets Op. 50 no. 4, Op. 55 no. 2 and Op. 74 no. 3, and Schumann's Symphony no. 4.) (Of these, Chopin's Piano Sonata no. 2 and Haydn's String Quartet Op. 50 no. 4 have finales that do not end in major.) Kostaki mou (talk) 23:19, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

• I think "surprising" referred to the particular context - in a minor-key concerto first movement, where a recapitulation that has concluded in the tonic major is overturned with (or just before) the introduction of the cadenza, and then a good portion of the last half of the cadenza plays out in the tonic minor, often the expectation is that the coda will remain in minor (maybe because of other piano concerto examples such as Beethoven No. 3, Schumann, Grieg, Rachmaninoff No. 1). What's special in this case is that Tchaikovsky still has up his sleeve the second subject group's second theme (the one originally in Ab major, which has been held off so far in the recapitulation), and its reappearance with the orchestral re-entry allows the major to be restored in the coda. That said, I've reworded the whole thing, removed the word "surprisingly" and made the process more explicit (I hope). Added a couple of references too, but more would certainly be welcome. --Greenwoodtree 18:47, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Final set of edits was posthumous, spurious and contrary to the composer's vision.

See this: http://www.broadstreetreview.com/music/the-trouble-with-tchaikovskys-piano-concerto-no.-1-in-b-flat-minor

as well as this update to be found in the comments on the same page, by the article's author:

" The Wikipedia link cited by the letter-writer is labeled on the site: “This article needs additional citations for verification.” In fact, it is behind the times and inaccurate. The Tchaikovsky Museum and Archive in Klin, Russia, this year published the authentic version about which I wrote.

Tchaikovsky composed the piece in 1875 and revised it slightly in 1879 and that’s the authentic version. It’s also the version that he conducted during his American tour in 1891 and in concerts in Russia up until his death. The discredited score— which has been played for many years and which the Moscow writer defends— was never sanctioned by Tchaikovsky, just as my article stated.

Yes, the composer revised his piece. But what’s been played for more than a century is not that at all but, rather, a spurious later alteration made by others. "

I'm unversed in editing Wikipedia, and don't yet care enough to learn how to restructure what's in the History section, but I may return to browbeat back any resistance.  ;)   Also, how in heck do I [quote] QUOTE-BOX [/quote] something? LOL??

Jacob L. Kline, a.k.a. Funkitronian (talk) 09:34, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

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Original research?

These sections:

• I. Allegro non troppo e molto maestoso – Allegro con spirito
• II. Andantino semplice – Prestissimo – Tempo I
• III. Allegro con fuoco – Molto meno mosso – Allegro vivo

Have large amounts of text which are unsourced and appears to be wp:original research. This should be remedied. Jim1138 (talk) 20:26, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@Jim1138: Thank you for bringing up this important issue. I just gave the content a read, and I completely agree with you about the first movement. For one, I completely disagree with the second theme of the exposition (described in this article as the first of the alternating themes of the second subject group) being “mournful and plaintive” - to me, it’s definitely more passionate and longing than plaintive. Unless the consensus of reputable scholarly analyses of this work is that this claim has merit, it should be replaced or removed. Also, the movement definitely does not end in a plagal cadence - it ends in mostly B-flat major chords with the antepenultimate one being an IV chord, but that does not make it a cadence. However, the second and third movements seem mostly fine to me - could you kindly pinpoint some examples? Zingarese (talk) 04:37, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

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