Talk:Nintendo optical discs

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Read from center or from edge?Edit

According to [[1]] and [[2]], the GameCube / Wii disc is read in the same direction as a regular DVD (center to edge). Is this correct? --D235j (talk) 21:59, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I have removed this seemingly-inaccurate fact and added two new external links. --D235j (talk) 02:44, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

CAV?Edit

Can anybody confirm that the discs are really using CAV format? Some people found out (http://www.ingenieria-inversa.cl/?p=9) that only the scrambled frame is different.. --84.144.78.206 19:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I suspect the disc is recorded CLV, so that the pits are the same size at the center as they are at the edge, but are read CAV. This means the data rate varies depending on the track. The advantage is that the motor never has to change speed, so seeks are faster. But I can't find a reference so I have not touched the article. Rees11 19:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

MergingEdit

Okay, I was a little confused by the history of moves and merges, but previously this was made into a redirect to Nintendo GameCube. I merged some information from Nintendo GameCube/pagehistory1 and Nintendo Gamecube Optical Disc. This seems to be the most proper page name, but I'm definitely open to moving it again, as long as we can keep a single page and talk history from here on in. --SevereTireDamage 10:24, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

We don't have an Xbox 360 optical disc or PlayStation 3 optical disc article, because they are just DVDs or Blu-Ray disks. The page is a redirect because this isn't a special format. It's a MiniDVD, nothing more. 70.101.201.248 08:07, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, those just use the vanilla formats available. Nintendo went with a custom format to prevent piracy. 07:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
The disc format deserves its own page for the following reasons:
  1. It is a unique media format. It is based on the mini-DVD, however as amply proven it is a proprietary version created by Nintendo and Matsushita. The NY Times article was pretty clear about this. Not to mention, commercially-speaking, with hundreds of titles and millions of copies out there, its actual use and real-world relevance probably exceeds that of miniDVD, which I don't think really caught on.
And what makes it unique? Can you find a single verifyable specification to differ it from a miniDVD?70.101.201.248 23:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  1. It was uniquely made this way to deter piracy, much like the Universal Media Disc and GD-ROM. Arguably it was successful in that regard, since the piracy rate for GC pirate media vs. legitimate GC games is lower than it is for PS2 and Xbox.
It's a miniDVD, you copy it to a miniDVD, a simple google search will show you that. Copy protection is the reason it may be lower. The main reason is user install base. Of course a console with 5x the consoles sold will have a higher piracy rate.70.101.201.248 23:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
A Google search will tell you how to use Phantasy Star Online and the Broadband Adapter to copy GCM images to your PC. --Optichan 15:21, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
  1. Usually mentioned as one of the major differences between the other systems in its generation, especially the Xbox. Also, the media format is often cited in reviews for explaining why the ports of GameCube titles are considered inferior to PS2 and Xbox versions.
And this makes it differant from a miniDVD how?70.101.201.248 23:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  1. Also follows in Nintendo's footsteps of constantly using proprietary, low-capacity media, much like the N64, and the Wii, though the Wii actually uses standard DVD-ROMs, I believe. The GC disc's existence will continue for a while longer, since the Wii will accept them.
Again, this makes it differant from a miniDVD how?70.101.201.248 23:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
First off, use the right terms 70.101.201.248. From the very same MiniDVD article you posted, this is in no way a miniDVD (which is nothing more then a CD with DVD information). If anything, it's a cDVD. I believe the main reason this is not a cDVD is because they don't pay for the licensing for the format, so had to make proprietary changes accordingly. ConnertheCat 13:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Every assertion I've made here, I'm fairly sure is true, and more importantly, has been discussed in many reliable media sources over the system's lifetime. I haven't added this information to the article because I haven't had time to get all the relevant citations together yet, which I figured was the best procedure for writing this. --SevereTireDamage 19:58, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

If it was a simple miniDVD,shouldn't it be readable by ordinary DVD drives?Because it's not.84.134.244.12 12:21, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Some more referencesEdit

Here are some more references for the format:

Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 10:18, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

And how do 5 pre-launch email logs show anything? Nintendo makes no referance to this term [3] and the term itself doesn't even get 900 google hits[4] where as gamecube miniDVD breaks 50,000[5]70.101.201.248 20:43, 20 August 2006 (UTC) Comment This page is against Wikipedia policy on naming, and this fact is proven via a Wikipedia:Google test The articles own referances call it a miniDVD[6]70.101.201.248 20:49, 20 August 2006 (UTC) This page belong as a redirect for the following reasons.
  • Nintendo itself does not uses this term.
  • Reading anything about this "new format" will show you it is a standard miniDVD.(80mm, 1.5Gb, same laser, not a differant material used)
  • There is nothing on any website to show anything differant from it.
  • The articles referances themselves refer to this format as a miniDVD
Until you can find reputable information to state that this is a new format, this page belongs as a redirect.70.101.201.248 03:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to what? If anything, it sounds like you want to move the article to a different title. Or maybe you are wanting to merge this information into the GameCube article. But a redirect doesn't seem at all appropriate unless we do something with the information in the article. --Brandon Dilbeck 05:42, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Can you provide the Nintendo specifications then? Any official documentation from Nintendo would be great. I'm just going by what most of the gaming press calls it and everything I've read about it. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 07:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Most part of the gaming press? It doesn't even break 1k google hits.
Nintendo states it a 1.5Gb 80mm disc, AKA a miniDVD70.101.201.248 22:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
70.101.201.248, I don't think those 5 references CyberSkull mentioned are supposed to be proof of only the name. They are links to articles including information about the discs, such as storage capabilities and such. --Brandon Dilbeck 16:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
The referance proved information(specifications) that it's a miniDVD.
And they all state the same thing, it has the exact same specifications as a miniDVD70.101.201.248 22:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Exactly. Also, thanks to Cyberskull for supplying those references, they will definitely help. IGN is definitely a reliable source. As for the changing the page title, that was in my first comment on this talk page, I'm very open to hearing suggestions if reliable sources can be found about an official title. Like others here, I was just going off of the many onlite sites and reviews I've read over the years that refer to the format as the "Gamecube optical disc". --SevereTireDamage 19:58, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
The console manual states "GameCube game disc"70.101.201.248 22:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Added the fact about the Wii's backwards compatibility, and two references from IGN and Planet GameCube that specifically designate the media as GameCube Optical Disc.--SevereTireDamage 22:02, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
That states a name, that Nintendo has never used, and provides no informations that it is differant from a miniDVD.70.101.201.248 22:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Until you can proved a single item to make this disc differant from a miniDVD, other than name. This is a redundant article, that states no new information that isn't already in the GameCube article.70.101.201.248 22:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Can you seriously not understand that it's a special proprietary version of the miniDVD format? I don't know how you can keep claiming it's merely a standard miniDVD, it obviously isn't. Nintendo in fact holds a patent on it.[7] "GCN games essentially come on what are three-inch DVD discs, and Nintendo holds the patent on that particular format." People will often use the term "miniDVD" as shorthand. Also, I found this article[8] which says that the GC laser starts from the outside edge of the disc and moves inward, opposite of most optical lasers. The fact is, GameCube discs are not really the same as miniDVDs, it's been clearly explained that this was a new proprietary format.
As for redundancy, you may or may not have noticed this article was only restarted a few days ago. I made a case for the technology's overall notability up there, which you seemed to either misread or misunderstand by harping on the miniDVD aspect for each point. I've been out for the last couple of days, but I'll be gradually adding more cited critical information so that this will significantly expand upon the section in the main GameCube article (which is currently comprised of generally unsourced information) to make this into a cited, informative article about the format and its historical impact. --SevereTireDamage 00:20, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
So, what's is differant from the discs? You keep repeating, it's differant, but don't state what makes it differant. State a differance and it's a new format, until then it's a miniDVD.70.101.201.248 01:41, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
The GameCube's discs are different in that their data protection is unique from normal miniDVDs and the filing, as well as how it's read, is different from MiniDVDs (or any other non-private disc format, for that matter). Also, Nintendo America (http://www.nintendo.com/techspecgcn) doesn't even mention anything about it being a MiniDVD.
Sure, the disc's dimensions are the same as a MiniDVD, but the data structure and protection isn't, and the format is only (legally) available to Nintendo and companies licensed by Nintendo, which is why it's a "proprietary" format. NulNul 08:15, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
So your two reasons are
  1. The way it's read
  2. It's data protection
Correct?
The way it's read has nothing to do with the disc, the laser track run in a differant differtion, reading it 4 - 3 - 2 - 1, instead of 1 - 2 - 3 - 4, still the spiral used on any type of disc.
Data protection has nothing to do with the disc, it has to do with the data on the disc.
If you'd like, make an article based on the copy protection of the disc, or the laser track feel free, but those have nothing to do with the disc itself, just the data on it or the beam aiming at it.
Also, take a simple google search, what format do you need to backup games? Can you guess it? The format used to copy a game, straight from an iso, no file structure changes or "only (legally) available to Nintendo...'proprietary' format"s? A plain standard miniDVD.70.101.201.248 10:52, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Now now, 70.101.201.248, instead of merely ranting on this page, why don't you make bold edits on the article page. Instead of discussing them, why not actually make the changes, and see how others react (maybe they'll add to them or revert them). --71.227.248.167 18:34, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
No one reverts them, but CyberSkull. Who had me blocked last time I changed them.70.101.201.248 21:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I didn't block you. An admin did. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:53, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Items that don't belong in this article.Edit

  • The fact that the gamecube doesn't play x-format. This article is about the disc, not the specifications and format compatibilities of the console.
  • Pre-fetch comments. All prefetching is, is changing the order of data, so more common items load first. Any format can do this, and it is not based on the medium, but based on file order.
  • Overly wording things to make it appear as though this page has more information than it does because of the above argument, two examples below.
Example 1
This format was the first case of Nintendo opting for a disc-based medium for its games, as all of its previous systems used cartridge technology. Just as with its cartridges, part of the reason the company went with this format was to combat software piracy by using a format that was more difficult to replicate.
Should be
It is Nintendo's first non-cartridge storage method and was chosen to prevent piracy[3].


Example 2
The drive used a modified data reading method, as the red laser starts reading from the outside edge of the disc and moves its way inward, the opposite of most disc-based technology, which typically moves the laser from the inner edge of the disc outward.[1] In addition, discs are read at a constant angular velocity.
Should be
It reads outwards-in[2] at a constand rate.

Exact same information.74.33.0.16 02:31, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I reverted the changes back. This article (as most articles should) is being written so that someone who is completely unfamiliar with the subject will understand what the article is talking about. Simply saying "outwards-in" is not really clear to someone unfamiliar with the subject, and historical context is definitely important to understanding the choices made by Nintendo here. Also, the fact that that the disc and drive were incompatible with regular DVDs and CDs is definitely warranted for inclusion for similar and obvious reasons. I was also basing the pre-fetch statement on the quote from the IGN interview - it's implied that it was part of the modifications made to the technology in development.

I also don't like the implication I'm "trying to prove a point", in fact, I'm citing any opinions in the article to stay NPOV.

Also, leave the general references in. They're useful so every single little detail doesn't need to be footnoted, and good for readers who want to follow up on information. Many Featured and Good Articles on Wikipedia have dozens of references and external links. --SevereTireDamage 03:26, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm open to seeing constructive edits to this article by well-intentioned editors who want to tighten up the prose. I restored the old version, but condensed some of the phrasing. However, you seem to be disrupting Wikipedia to prove a point, since no one else agreed with your intent to redirect the article. There is no real justification to remove the non-inline sources. The version you created was far too short and read terribly, being filled with spelling errors and sentence fragments. --SevereTireDamage 21:42, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
All the referance removed say the same thing as the other referances, your just double linking to information.
Optimizations to the drive mechanism and pre-fetch cache, as well as the smaller disc size also meant faster access times and less loading in comparison to other media.[3]
Smaller disc size doesn't make it faster, discs read the same speed at any sections. The only differance with a smaller disc is the track moves more often because of the tight short spirals.
The referance says nothing about it being faster, if you want to make that statement. Get read time(mb/s), nothing other than that is verifyable to make a claim.
By not having the capability to playback DVDs, the GameCube cost less to produce since Nintendo did not have to pay licensing fees to the DVD Consortium.
Not dealing with the disc in current form.
it was choosen to avoid licensing fees
Now is dealing with disc.
Part of the reason the company went with this format was to combat software piracy by using a format that was more difficult to replicate.[2]
Take a quick search at google, the format isn't the problem. The anti-piracy encryption is. Replication is done trough having the console decrypt the info, and then burning to a miniDVD. Use "Copy Gamecube disc" at google to find information to verify this.(Not going to link to such sites here)
adding this to the end of previous statements greatly decreases read time
and to prevent piracy
However, this also resulted in disadvantages compared to other contemporary systems such as PlayStation 2 and Xbox. The GameCube was unable to play audio CDs or DVDs while the others could, although a specific model released only in Japan, the Panasonic Q, had a larger disc tray and did have these capabilities.
Format the gamecube can't play and saying which console can play them? Provides no information about the actual disc. Stating that there is a DVD playing gamecube? Belongs in the gamecube article.
Games with large amounts of voice acting or pre-rendered video often needed to be put on 2 discs, such as Tales of Symphonia and Killer7.
Anything can fill a disc, audio, video, textures, no need to state all the things that can fill it, and no need to name games that do take more discs, if you want to do that, link to the multidisc gamecube article. Anyone who wants to know what games are on multiple disc, can go there.
Nintendo's upcoming video game system, the Wii, will also support the GameCube Optical Disc for backwards compatibility with GameCube games.[5]
Single add on sentence about where it is used. Belongs in lead, alongside the sentence stating it's used in the gamecube
The GameCube Optical Disc is the media format used by the Nintendo GameCube. The disc is a patented proprietary version of the 8 cm MiniDVD format. The disc format was created by Panasonic's parent company, Matsushita.
media is improper, media is stored on mediums
First and third sentence can easily be combined to form a perfect non run on sentence that removes no information.
The GameCube Optical Disc is the media format used by the Nintendo GameCube. The disc is a patented proprietary version of the 8 cm MiniDVD format. The disc format was created by Panasonic's parent company, Matsushita.
The GameCube Optical Disc is the medium for the Nintendo GameCube, created by Matsushita
Did I miss anything?74.33.0.16 01:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Note, I made no attempt to make this page a redirect

The footnotes only refer to the sentences or paragraphs they are citing. The other references give broader information, such as the spec sheet at Nintendo and the hardware FAQs. In particular, one of them is an editorial defending the format. Opinions cited in the media are relevant here.

To say that the choice of using physical miniDVDs had nothing to do with piracy is ridiculous. Did it make it impossible? Of course not, but it was still a major factor. The very sentence you're talking about is actually about the intentions of Nintendo. I haven't even had time to really expand on the subject of real piracy, here.

The importance of the comparison of the this video game format to its competitors is obvious. The importance of the disc drive and decision not to include standalone video or audio playback is obvious. An encyclopedic article about this format must include a historical context, it's not all about the technical specifications. You are completely ignoring the relevance of the disc on the history of the GameCube as well. Obviously, the two go hand-in-hand.

Similarly, the games that used 2 discs on the Cube were generally pretty unique, as there weren't that many in general, for various reasons. Again, relevant.

I felt that the Wii mention belongs at the end, since it is, in a way, the delayed end of the format.

What's worse is that your edit is still filled with fragmented sentences and awkward phrasing, because you're trying to cram too much information into two paragraphs. --SevereTireDamage 03:39, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Article title is used for product and was created by creator. It is also used for product. The shortened article titled is various direct information about it. Company uses it for reason.
(Not mentioning second part as you wrote that)
How is that akward? And can you point out a sentence fragment? Every article follows this same basic format.74.33.0.16 04:06, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
The sentences that begin with "As..." and "Also..." are sentence fragments. It's still too compressed, with insufficient context. I want to hear other Wikipedia editor's opinions on this - here's the version of the page I was working on with the references and relation to the system's history[9], and here's the current one[10]. I didn't want to turn this into a prolonged edit war by reverting yet again, but I still see the current version as markedly inferior. --SevereTireDamage 20:21, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


Article moveEdit

Reading an above arguments brings up a good point. This page title gets <1000 google hits, Gamecube miniDVD gets 50,000+.The most common name is to be used. 50x the usage shows this isn't the most popular term, and nintendo never uses this term. (A fact the above feuding user proved with google.[11])74.33.0.16 04:49, 26 August 2006 (UTC) Should we move it to

  • GameCube miniDVD - The most popular term A much more popular title than the current one or
  • GameCube Game Disc - What Nintendo refers it in the manuals, as close to an official term as you can get
I discourage the use of Google hit searches (it shouldn't be some kind of popularity contest), but like the idea of calling it Game Disc--I just checked the instruction manual for Super Smash Bros. Melee and it refers to it as the Nintendo GameCube Game Disc. This title would be simple and to the point. --Brandon Dilbeck 05:42, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Checking Nintendo GameCube(console) manual, that is the first thing they refer to it as. Seems like the best thing to move it to.74.33.0.16 00:10, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

The gaming press consistently refers to it as GameCube Optical Disc. See this Planet GameCube FAQ on the subject which was removed for no good reason from the article[12]: "The 1.5 GB proprietary optical disk from Matsushita is much smaller than your average DVD, comparable in size to a mini-disc. Nintendo has been adamant that these discs not be called "DVDs". Instead, they have been referred to as "GameCube Optical Discs", or "G.O.Ds" for short." Not to mention the IGN Revolution FAQ ref in the article, as well as the specs press release for the Wii that was widely distributed called them GameCube optical discs. [13] [14] And so on.

And please, 74.33.0.16, you're not fooling anyone by changing your IP. --SevereTireDamage 05:47, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

For move - To Nintendo GameCube Game Disc Per notability and officialness. Your "consistently" statement was clearly disproven by 74.33.0.16's googling. I'd hardly conside <1000 uses a popular term(Esp. compared to 50k uses). 204.13.236.244 07:51, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Correction 70.101.201.248's googling
I said the gaming press does, who I would consider far more authoritative than the message board posts and pirating discussions that show up in a google search. Also, a strict search on "gamecube game disc" only yields 772 results[15], comparable to GOD. I see "NGGC" as the consumer name given by Nintendo, but not the real technical name... unless every reputable gaming site basically formed a conspiracy to make it up.
Also note the above IP has 5 edits, 2 of which are on this page, and on top of that is suspected of being on an open proxy. I'm getting really tired of this user's blatant sockpuppeting and attempts to game the system. --SevereTireDamage 20:21, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
How do you check to see if an IP is an open proxy? DNSstuff shows it as not a known proxy[16] and I doubt that a lack of edits is cause to beleive it's a proxy.DeathSeeker 23:57, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Oppose move for now. I'm going to ask Nintendo what the official name is [17]. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 08:36, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
For move to Nintendo Gamecube game disc. (Should've voted for which one when I nominated move) Here's the official Nintendo Gamecube manual (pdf/html) which refers to it as "Nintendo GameCube Game Disc".74.33.0.16 11:31, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Oppose move for reasons stated above. I'd also like to see if Nintendo gives an official answer at the boards. Besides, this is just a straw poll, and not a formal move request. I also think it's not a great idea to move the page since we have an ongoing edit conflict right now (see topic above). --SevereTireDamage 20:21, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Nintendo has already given it's official name, via the above linked GameCube console manual, and the manual for any gamecube game. As for the above edit-war, that doesn't affect the fact that this page is against wikipedia naming policy.74.33.0.16 22:29, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
For move as stated above, regardless of an edit war, this is not the official name. It's a highly unpopular name that no major websites use often. My vote is a move to Nintendo Gamecube Game Disc.DeathSeeker 23:35, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Page moved, Nintendo's documented name for it is "Nintendo Gamecube Game Disc", as such the page title should be.DeathSeeker 00:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

gamecube disc not first non cartridge format by nintendoEdit

That honor would go to the famicom disk system. [[18]]

  • Then it is the first out of the box non cartridge format JayKeaton 20:05, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
    • The SNES has a slot loading CD reader on the back of the unit, as standard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.233.225 (talk) 19:13, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Rename to include Wii data disc?Edit

From what the Wiili had gathered, Wii data disc is an extension of the GC disk. Should we rename it and include info of Wii diskc? George Leung 10:06, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Why cant you copy these disks

NamingEdit

I moved the page to a name that doesn't use the ampersand. Ideally, the article's name should not have to use the word "and" at all - see Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Use of "and". Does anyone have an idea about other names that could be used without the "and"? --Jtalledo (talk) 11:02, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Maybe simply "Nintendo game discs" as these are the only discs Nintendo have ever used in their consoles. - MTC 13:22, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
"Nintendo optical media" would be preferred, as it would differentiate from disk-based systems Nintendo has used in the past (Famicom Disk System, N64DD). Just64helpin 14:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I went ahead and moved it to "Nintendo Optical Discs", short, sweet, and to the point. -- Hero of legend 20:41, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
It should be in lowercase letters, per WP:MOS. Just64helpin 21:29, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

BCAEdit

What's the point of the section about the Burst Cutting Area? All it does is describe the area on the disc, and says nothing about why it's there or what it's for. --Brandon Dilbeck 15:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

It's there for copy protection, but no one has found a reference that says this, so we can't say it in the article. I think it's useful information though, because it's one of the ways in which this disc differs from a standard issue data DVD. Rees11 15:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Should it be mentioned that Datel was able to copy this marking on their Action Replay discs for the GameCube? Also, the latest firmware update on the Wii prevents the Action Replay from running on the Wii. 99.228.9.61 15:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

SplitEdit

I think this article should be split into two articles (Nintendo GameCube Optical disks/Wii Optical disks) because they are different sizes and different capacities etc. --MacMad (talk · contribs)  11:00, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

They were specifically merged because the individual discs were not notable enough for separate articles. The only difference between them, as you pointed out, is the diameter. Also note: "disc" is the proper term, not "disk". Just64helpin 11:10, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, but their capacites are different too. And disk can be used as well as disc. --MacMad (talk · contribs)  16:17, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The capacity is directly related to the diameter. The correct, trademarked names are "Nintendo GameCube Game Disc" and "Wii Optical Disc". Just64helpin 18:34, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Fine then! --MacMad (talk · contribs)  06:56, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

PC ReaderEdit

I once got a Matsushita DVD drive to read a gamecube disc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.160.253 (talk) 23:34, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Reader:

The GC and the Wii use an early format of DVD known AS GDR-DVD. This early format was used a passive form of protection against copying. Many early drives can read GDR formats, including a number of Matsushita drives. Although, for the excpetion of the LG series GDR remains mainly an industrial format and is not seen in consumer level equipment. There is no such thing as a NOD, the NOD simply refers to a GDR revision which Nintendo used for their own purposes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wimmig (talkcontribs) 01:28, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

WII OPTICAL DISC (DVD)Edit

Question: Do you need a disc for every game the WII can play? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.116.193.107 (talk) 03:24, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Virtual Console and WiiWare titles...then people hacked games onto it. Think about it for a minute. Anyways, is there any documented proof of pirated Wii or GameCube discs? I've never see any. (I don't want links, I want like an article or something from a real source.) Japanimation station (talk) 19:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
yes, they exist, you have to install a chip in your wii and it can read DVDs. I live in mexico city, a nest of pirates... I have a very poor friend, he can only buy pirate games so... I only buy originals of course, they come in english and the pirates don't...
in the same way you can easily make pirate games for all the other consoles... it's just easy, you just need make em all read dvds. however, I don't think someone ever needs to make pirate wii optical discs since using DVDs is easier and cheapier.... although I think it's gonna be a problem when it comes to the new Wii U technology because no DVD has 25 GB of memory so...
--SGP (talk) 03:28, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Nintendo GameCube QuestionEdit

Why did Nintendo decide to go with smaller discs for the Gamecube?12.213.80.36 (talk) 23:38, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Because The gamecube is small... isn't it obvious? have you ever tried to put a DVD in it? it just won't fit in....--SGP (talk) 03:30, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Is this line really necessary?Edit

"The Nintendo GameCube Game Disc was created for the Nintendo GameCube, while the Wii Optical Disc was made for the Wii." It reads like weird, it is like dumbly obvious, I mean, the GameCube disc is for the GameCube and the Wii disc is for the Wii... Duh...--SGP (talk) 03:34, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, this was done to avoid putting wikilinks in the bolded names, per WP:MOS. I suppose alternative phrasing wouldn't be out of the question. jhsounds (talk) 03:38, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
what? no, I mean that it says that GameCube stuff is for GameCube... that's obvious, I mean every person who reads the article can reach the conclusion that GameCube discs were made for the GameCube, its weird to say it in the article..... maybe changing it to something like "nintendo developed all the optical discs for their respective console" instead of specifying in a weird way --SGP (talk) 03:43, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
To clarify my concern: if we remove that line, there would be no wikilinks to Wii and Nintendo GameCube in the lead section. So it may seem redundant, but serves a purpose: to link to those two articles. jhsounds (talk) 11:57, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
how about something like "This includes the Nintendo GameCube Game Disc and Wii Optical Disc." or does it goes against the style?--SGP (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
I already said it goes against the style in my first reply. Sorry if that wasn't clear in what I said. jhsounds (talk) 18:51, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
Okay, how about changing:
"The Nintendo GameCube Game Disc was created for the Nintendo GameCube, while the Wii Optical Disc was made for the Wii. The physical size of a Nintendo GameCube Game Disc is that of a miniDVD, and the Wii Optical Disc is the size of a DVD."
By removing the first line until the period, and doing this on the second line: "The physical size of a Nintendo GameCube Game Disc is that of a miniDVD, and the Wii Optical Disc is the size of a DVD." That way we fix the pleonasm-looking sentence... but it still looks funny...--SGP (talk) 23:55, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I suppose that would work. jhsounds (talk) 02:00, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Okay, then I'll edit it right away...--SGP (talk) 03:44, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Other Nintendo consoles that use discsEdit

Since the article is named Nintendo optical disc I think the other consoles' discs should be mentioned, (the NES, SNES and N64 all got a disc reader)--SGP (talk) 03:50, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

The NES, SNES, and N64 all use ROM cartridges, not optical discs. Please see the optical disc article for more information. jhsounds (talk) 11:50, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
they all had a disc reader slot to connect the disc reader in their bottom or the back, it was a device to read the Nintendo optical discs....they were not very popular(the SNES one actually wasn't released, and in fact, is responsible for the creation of the PlayStation... the N64DD (disc drive) was a commercial failure, never released out of japan...)...however, they should be mentioned anyways...--SGP (talk) 17:33, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
We should probably restrict the info in the article to actual existing optical discs distributed by Nintendo. The N64DD used magnetic disks, not optical discs, so it wouldn't fit the criteria for inclusion. jhsounds (talk) 18:58, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
Okay... maybe just add links for further reading, I found out they actually have their own articles here in Wikipedia... (Family Computer Disk System, and Nintendo 64DD) although only the possible SNES discs were the only ones that used optical based technology... (the 64DD used a magnetic optical disk, which is not purely a magnetic disc, so it counts as optical) --SGP (talk) 23:45, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Wii U optical discsEdit

Soon, the Wii U will have it's own discs, which (I've heard) are based on BluRay technology, and will have 25 GB of memory, I think they should be added to this article. (not necessarily now, but when the Wii U comes out, or when we get more information about it)--SGP (talk) 04:04, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

The Wii U disc is already mentioned in the Nintendo optical disc article. jhsounds (talk) 11:53, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
sorry... its only that it's not big enough, so I didn't noticed it... --SGP (talk) 17:54, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

The lie of being unable to play DVDsEdit

It's mentioned in this article, and I quote, "This also limits the consoles from being used as general DVD or BluRay players."

I don't know about the Gamecube (which wasn't hacked much and has a drive too small for standard DVDs anyway) or the Wii U (which obviously isn't out yet for us to prod at the hardware), but the Wii has been proven to be capable of playing DVDs without hardware modification -- my very own Wii is capable of doing this, it's a procedure involving software-only hacks that is at least three years old.

Reference: http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/13/the-wii-finally-gets-dvd-playback-no-thanks-to-nintendo/

Shouldn't we, you know, fix that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.199.100.250 (talk) 23:54, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

I realize this is responding to a comment several years old, but just wanted to point out that somewhere in there Nintendo did make the drive in the Wii completely incapable of doing that. Yes, earlier hacked systems can play DVD movies, but not all Wii's can.76.226.126.65 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:47, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Removing nonsensical and unsourced Measurements sectionEdit

The Measurements section currently contains only the following sentence:

The Gamecube disc is 3.5mm and the Wii/Wii U is 12.5mm.

This sentence makes no sense. If it refers to diameter, the GC measurement is ridiculously small. If it refers to thickness, the Wii/Wii U measurement is ridiculously large. Correct diameters are already listed in the infobox. Therefore, I will remove the Measurements section. If anyone thinks it is valuable, go ahead and put it back, but please make it make sense. Ian01 (talk) 19:38, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

The GameCube measurement is likely the thickness (3.5mm), and the Wii/Wii U one is the diameter (should be 12cm though). So the correct measurements in diameter should be 8cm and 12cm.--Arkhandar (TalkContribs) 12:39, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Raw read protection...Edit

"The GameCube Game Disc is a 1.5 GB,[1] 8 cm miniDVD based technology which reads at a constant angular velocity (CAV). It was chosen by Nintendo to prevent copyright infringement"

Is it the only thing which prevent raw access to the Nintendo discs on most PC disc readers? 2A02:8422:1191:6E00:48DE:3FBC:C637:4D0B (talk) 10:30, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

CAV is sometimes used in high speed DVD drives, but doesn't affect your ability to *read* the data in another drive. Indeed you can rip Gamecube/Wii optical discs in a PC DVD drive, albeit one requiring the ability to dump the read-error buffer.[2] Gamecube discs are scrambled/obfuscated[3] to make raw access harder, but not impossible. Bcastell (talk) 14:19, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Nintendo GameCube Special Edition". Avrev.com. 2003-06-01. Retrieved 2011-07-06.
  2. ^ "RawDump Software Article on GC-Forever Wiki". GC-Forever.com. Retrieved 2015-02-23). {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)
  3. ^ "Anatomy of an Optical Medium Authentication (Part 1)". debugmo.de. Retrieved 2015-02-23.

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Read order (again)Edit

2601:405:8400:2d40:a8c6:ed5c:ea05:dc84 (talk) has recently added a claim that discs are read from the outside in, noting in recent edit summaries:

From listening to the operation of the Wii’s disc drive, this appears to be true, contrary to what Pokechu22 said. When one inserts a game with a small file size like New Super Mario Bros. Wii (~360 MB of 4.7 GB) the laser assembly can be heard moving in one direction all the way across the disc just before the game name appears on the screen. Once the game is started, the laser assembly makes only very small adjustments during gameplay, which suggests that it is reading from the edge.

On the other hand, when one inserts a larger game like Mario Kart Wii (~2.6 GB of 4.7 GB), the laser assembly moves only about halfway to the edge, suggesting that it moves to the innermost part of the game data. During gameplay, the laser assembly can be heard making much larger adjustments.

This also applies to the Wii U as well. When one inserts a game like New Super Mario Bros. U (~2.3 GB of 25 GB) the laser assembly moves once all the way to the edge of the disc when the game is started, and can be heard only making small adjustments during gameplay.

I'm still pretty sure this is wrong, but there don't seem to be any strong sources either way. Dolphin implements it with offset 0 being on the inside, which to my understanding was the result of several hardware tests. Furthermore, I'd have expected the debugmo.de article and the friidump technical documentation to mention this, but they only mention different frame layouts and scrambling. The debugmo.de article also mentions that the lead-in is the same, which is inconsistent with data starting on the outside. It seems this was also discussed a year ago, with similar conclusions (and a link to a post from marcan of hackmii.com, who I'd consider a subject matter expert).

It should also be possible to empirically check read speeds near the start and the end. CleanRip shows them (I think with some amount of averaging, but it should still change over time), and I think I do remember seeing it reading more at the start than at the end, but it's been a while since I've dumped a normal game with it (I've mainly worked with Datel discs lately, which take several hours as opposed to 10-20 minutes).

As for the sound of the laser assembly, I think that that could be caused by it being parked on the outer edge of the disc, rather than in the center. Then a move to the inside would take the longest amount of time. But that's just speculation. --Pokechu22 (talk) 22:05, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

@Pokechu22: You've done incredible work on acquisition of RSes for this article, so I know that you know better than to have engaged a WP:OR editor and then written any of this chat. I'm sorry to say it but this thread is a hair's breadth of being reverted because it is all WP:OR in the discussion not of the encyclopedic advancement of the article but of chat WP:NOTFORUM — indeed, forum chat about other chat forums. There was no reason to have written any of this. The only valid discussion would be "has anyone found a RS about these subjects?" which might be found in magazines about electronics and electrical engineering and optical media if anything. I have some free memberships through WP:LIBRARY which you should be interested in getting, but I'm a noob at that and I don't know where to search. Again, thanks for your outstanding work because I have hacked away all the dumb WP:FANCRUFT WP:OR for years on this article in hope that you would someday come along! — Smuckola(talk) 22:59, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
The main reason why I wrote everything here was because I have been doing some of my own original research, and if that is wrong, then it's something I'd want to know, just to resolve the confusion. (And incidentally, at least according to people in #dolphin-dev, the IP's observations are correct but for the wrong reasons: games are padded so that actual data is close to the outer edge, but the data stream still starts on the inner edge. But there is unlikely to be any reliable source for that whatsoever.) As it stands it certainly doesn't belong in the article though, but I disagree that bringing it up on the talk page is completely irrelevant: if the claim is wrong, then there's no point in trying to check for further more obscure (but still reliable) sources to back it up. Perhaps I have gone overboard and violated some of the policies by explaining why I think (and thought) the claim was wrong, but, honestly, I don't really care. --Pokechu22 (talk) 23:40, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
@Pokechu22: "I disagree that bringing it up on the talk page is completely irrelevant" I didn't say that... "check for further more obscure (but still reliable) sources to back it up" Aha, that's a horse of a different color then! Let me know if there are exact keywords that I can search my magazine sources at WP:LIBRARY for, but I totally doubt my ability to wade through stuff so technical in this particular niche. Anyway, again, I tip my hat to you (which I coincidentally am wearing today) and everyone owes you a standing ovation for the outstanding reliable sourcing you've already added to this article that's been historically plagued by years of dumb guesses, original research, opinions, trivia, rants, and general jibbajabba. — Smuckola(talk) 04:13, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Wii U discs and Blu-rayEdit

I found a few sources that explicitly say that discs are Blu-ray, though I'm not sure how reliable they are.[1][2] I also found two other sources that compare it to Blu-ray, one before release[3] and one after.[4]

One other thing is the term "iDensity" which is used on the French article (with a citation[5]). Most search results for "iDensity" Wii U are in French, though there does appear to be one Kotaku article[6] using the term (and the Gimme Gimme Games article[1] mentions it too). The most likely explanation is that it was a mishearing of "high density", since a second Kotaku article from the same day with more details[7] doesn't use that term, nor do the engadget articles (which explicitly say "proprietary high-density optical discs") or this MCV/Develop article.[8]

I don't think this article should mention the "iDensity" name, but probably some combination of these could be added into the article to expand on the Blu-ray claims. --Pokechu22 (talk) 04:02, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

I found a book[9] that says they're Blu-ray. Annoyingly, the e-book version doesn't have page numbers, and the print version (OCLC 1054221311) isn't in any libraries near me. But this is probably enough to write something later. --Pokechu22 (talk) 06:46, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Sources

  1. ^ a b Femmel, Kevin (May 21, 2014). "Wii U game dumped by hackers, group reveals system uses Blu-Ray after all". Gimme Gimme Games. Archived from the original on July 18, 2020.
  2. ^ "Scene Pirates have officially dumped a Wii U title". Dash Gamer. May 20, 2014. Archived from the original on May 22, 2014.
  3. ^ Anthony, Sebastian (June 16, 2011). "Demystifying the Wii U hardware specification". ExtremeTech. Archived from the original on July 18, 2020.
  4. ^ Shimpi, Anand Lal (November 18, 2012). "Nintendo Wii U Teardown". AnandTech. Archived from the original on July 18, 2020.
  5. ^ "E3 2011 : La taille des disques Wii U". Jeuxvideo.com (in French). June 8, 2011.
  6. ^ McWhertor, Michael (June 7, 2011). "First Official Tech Details on Wii U and Its Bold New Controller". Kotaku. Archived from the original on July 18, 2020.
  7. ^ Totilo, Stephen (June 7, 2011). "Wii U Discs Will Be 25GB In Size". Kotaku. Archived from the original on July 18, 2020.
  8. ^ "Nintendo: Wii U disc capacity at 25GB". MCV/Develop. June 8, 2011. Archived from the original on July 18, 2020.
  9. ^ Godwin, Simon N (2019). Beep to Boom: The Development of Advanced Runtime Sound Systems for Games and Extended Reality. Routledge. doi:10.4324/9781351005548. ISBN 978-1-351-00554-8.