Talk:New York City

Invitation

There is a move discussion at Talk:New York (state). Toadette ^{(Let's discuss together!)} 21:25, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Infobox images suggestion

Hello, I think it's time to discuss the infobox images once again. The first thing to be aware of is that we can't put any sights of NYC in that infobox, that's for sure. I suggest to replace the current image of the Unisphere with File:Unisphere-2 (27835155267).jpg which has higher technical quality and better depicts the Unisphere. Furthermore, we could remove the current image of the Bronx Zoo and replace it with the previous image of Grand Central Terminal, but maybe at another position. Another option is to remove both the image of the Bronx Zoo and the image of the Verrazzano Bridge without replacement – both of which are, according to page view statistics, relatively 'irrelevant' and therefore redundant compared to internationally known places like the Empire State Building, Statue of Liberty, or Times Square. Let me know what you think. Tobiasi0 (talk) 12:44, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

The point of including the images in the current collage you don't think are relevant is to include at least one image from each of the boroughs. They all need to be represented. New York City is more than just Manhattan. There's no reason to relive or replace any of the current images. oknazevad (talk) 13:29, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Oknazevad do they - even if there is no comparable encyclopedic relevance? Sure, most of the things NYC is known for are located or happening in Manhattan, but trying to include every borough is a case of false balance imho, especially when there are other cities like Vienna out there where you don't try to include every single of the whole 23 districts as well. –Tobias (talk) 13:38, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

No one is talking about 23 anything, we are talking about 4 boroughs where most of the city is and lives. This is an encyclopedia not a tourism guide. Alanscottwalker (talk) 13:42, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Alanscottwalker right, that's exactly my point. It is an encyclopedia and intended to display topics by their relevance which isn't the case if most of the city is in Manhattan and you try to write an equal amout of text about Staten Island, if there is basically nothing that famous. This wouldn't be an issue if we were specifically talking about the article about Staten Island, but that's not the case. –Tobias (talk) 13:51, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

You are missing the point, we are not writing about Staten Island, we are writing about the whole city. OneAlanscottwalker (talk) 13:54, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Alanscottwalker exactly, and why should we even look at the single boroughs in the infobox, when we try to provide information about the city as a whole? –Tobias (talk) 13:57, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

I already said, because those are where most the city is and lives. Alanscottwalker (talk) 14:08, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Alanscottwalker and I understand that, that's what this is all about. The information about the specific boroughs belong in the corresponding section of the article, not in the infobox or lead section; that's just where they are possibly mentioned once. It is irrelevant how far the infobox covers all boroughs, but how it covers the important locations of the city and if 80% of them are located in Manhattan, then, as a logical conclusion, 80% of the infobox is about Manhattan, regardless of whether 3 out of 5 boroughs aren't represented with even one single image. With this in mind, why keep an image depicting the Verrazzano Bridge instead of replacing it with a picture of Grand Central Terminal, which has about five times as much views? –Tobias (talk) 14:18, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

This is not an article about popular places, its an article about an entire city. Alanscottwalker (talk) 14:23, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Alanscottwalker and the popular places don't belong to the city? –Tobias (talk) 14:25, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Popular places are not the city. Alanscottwalker (talk) 14:27, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Alanscottwalker ok, let's try it from another perspective. We seem to have similar arguments, yet arrive at different conclusions. What exactly is the deal breaker regarding popular places for you? I mean, you seem pretty okay with the fact that the Statue of Liberty is included in the infobox, but want to exclude the Grand Central Terminal, even though it is a crucial part of the city's infrastructure. The Statue of Liberty is precisely the exact kind of popular place that you seem to oppose in your last messages. –Tobias (talk) 17:06, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Please don't give me a ping notice again. I am watching this page. I told you, we need to represent the city entire.

As for the statue of liberty, it represents social history of the city and 19th century rise to prominence of its port. Also, we have enough re infrastructure, poor idea to sacrifice scope for that. -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 17:19, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Why should it be a poor idea to use the main station of a city as symbol for its infrastructure? Additionally, the Grand Central Terminal does have cultural status alongside with a remarkable history too, as nearly every other building or structure in NYC, so that's not really a convincing argument. Infrastructure isn't just a little important, it's crucial for any city.

But let's try to reach a consensus, at least for the replacement of the image of the Unisphere. Do you support this idea? –Tobias (talk) 18:12, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think you are reading what I write, we have enough on infrastructure in almost every picture, and scope across the city matters much more anyway.

As for the Unisphere I guess you have not convinced someone else above it is a better image, (the current image does seem good given its clear in the space given and the closeups in that part: the triangle with the other closupes of the statue and the bridge) but obviously one image over the other of the same thing is orthogonal to my main objections to what you want to do. Alanscottwalker (talk) 18:23, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Alanscottwalker by the way, we are talking about five boroughs and from what I can see, Staten Island isn't even included in the current infobox. –Tobias (talk) 13:54, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

You are missing the point, we are not writing about Staten Island, we encyclopedically covering the whole city. And just 1/9th of the montage is the bridge to Staten Island a key to understanding geography, but if you have another borough relevant image feel free to suggest it. Alanscottwalker (talk) 14:02, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 April 2024

I'm going to add one information in the "Tech and biotech" part. I read the Global Innovation Hubs Index, and I want to mention the place of NYC in this rank. New York is a top-tier global technology hub. In 2023, it is the representative of innovation hub, ranked second in the world after San Francisco-San Jose. This is from the NATURE which published in November 22, 2023. You can check it on this website: https://www.nature.com/articles/d42473-023-00420-1 Gihii (talk) 08:36, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The website you linked is an Advertisement Feature. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk|contribs) 08:44, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 April 2024

I want to add some information under the tech and biotech page. I have read an article from nature, which proved that NYC ranked 2nd in the Global Innovation Hubs Index. I think the new information is of good use. The text I want to add is: New York is a top-tier global technology hub. In 2023, it is the representative of innovation hub, ranked second in the world after San Francisco-San Jose Gihii (talk) 08:07, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Same reason as above request; the website is an advertisement feature. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk|contribs) 08:18, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Rfc: Which lead image is clearer?

Which lead image is clearer?

• 
  Picture A
• 
  Picture B

Castncoot (talk) 19:38, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

!Vote

• B. While picture ‘A’ is pretty good, it suffers from twilight darkness obscuring the outlines of the buildings, and the background including the outer boroughs appears relatively vague. On the other hand, because picture ‘B’ is so sharply lit, and also because there is more ambient light in picture ‘B’ from the sunset/early dusk, the outlines of the skyscrapers are more clear and crisp, their borders are unmistakable, and one can actually see all the way far back to the clearly lit Verrazzano Bridge in picture 'B', connecting Brooklyn and Staten Island, which are also in fact boroughs of New York City, like Manhattan.
  Also just as critically, picture ‘B’ displays numerous skyscrapers in Midtown Manhattan which lie north of the Empire State Building, versus the incomplete picture ‘A’, which is bumping right up close to the Empire State Building while looking southward and is therefore missing important Midtown Manhattan skyscrapers north of the Empire State Building, including the highly notable Bank of America Tower (with the blue spire, right foreground). Best, Castncoot (talk) 19:38, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
• A. The light emitting from almost every window in B impairs the view of the individual buildings. Not that I want to cause anyone to add New York City has the highest number of light bulbs of any city in the world ever to the article, in line with all of the other claims of the city's firsts. Seasider53 (talk) 21:46, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
• B shows the grandeur scale of the city better.Moxy🍁 00:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

• 

  Picture C

  How about this one? I like it because it has a whole skyline in view. We can call this one C. I think it's just as crisp as B but has a more distinctive "New York City" look. HenryMP02 (talk) 21:58, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
• A or C since the viewemphasis in both images is on the skyline. (Summoned by bot) I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 22:10, 22 April 2024 (UTC) (fixed template at 22:11, 22 April 2024 (UTC)) (fixed phrasing at 22:12, 22 April 2024 (UTC))

  question about this image..... Are these the twin tower lights and are they still utilized today?Moxy🍁 00:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, those Twin Tower lights are utilized at the somber memorial commemorations every September 11th. The picture 'C' is only of Lower Manhattan, though. Picture 'B' is more detailed than picture 'A', which is incomplete and in that sense is misleading to the reader. I believe in striving for completeness and accuracy, and Picture 'B' best fits that bill. Castncoot (talk) 01:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

• A. The lens distortion on the second photo (wherein closer buildings are warped and unusually large compared to farther objects) just seems unprofessional while the first photo has a very refined look. The WTC (and the rest of lower manhattan, and the Verrazano bridge) is also far more visible in the first photo and the ESB is the centerpiece as it should be, whereas in B the ESB is upstaged by the Bank of America tower and other lovely but less significant buildings. Photo C is a nice proposal but doesn't represent midtown. RyanAl6 (talk) 02:02, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

  A per Ryan and Seasider. Aaron Liu (talk) 11:12, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

  I'm certainly no photography expert, so if it's true that picture 'B' represents a distorted image, then I would not want to use it either; I don't mind keeping picture 'A' then. This RfC can probably be closed now. Castncoot (talk) 14:11, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

  Yet you denigrated @Dadude sandstorm for (on your assumption) not being a photography expert and, thus, asked for an RfC. Do you feel an apology to them is needed? I do. Seasider53 (talk) 14:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

  1. I don't think we need to escalate our tone that far.
  2. It's a bold edit and a bold revert. It is known that Nkon21 is a photographer, and I see no reason to call deferring to him "denigration". Aaron Liu (talk) 14:47, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

  That was the basis of the RfC, because another editor had the audacity to revert to Castcoot's vague "clearer" change of the longstanding image. You may have missed the ANI we had a few months ago. Things don't seem to be improving. Seasider53 (talk) 15:12, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

• A per Ryan.--Found5dollar (talk) 14:36, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
• A as per the reasons I've previously cited in the version history Daruda (talk) 15:03, 23 April 2024

this article seems highly biased - too much bragging and "most...in the world" claims.

The tone of this overbloated article comes off as quite biased, and even misleading. There is a distasteful, unprofessional tone in this article of "most of this", or the "best of that" that's never seems to quit. Forgive me, but it's as if the article is trying to say, if you don't live in New York City, especially Manhattan, then you do not deserve to live. It's almost a promotional piece than something more objective. There's too many desperate attempts at listing what NYC could be possibly number one for (based on weak article or journalistic pieces and not based on statistics or facts, an easy example is the 800 language claim). It's written in an insufferable and relentless way, shoving down your throat this irrational belief that this city is somehow superior to all others. The line has to be drawn at over-implying that New York is the 'best' city in the world with its endless "most...in the world" claims. It comes off as arrogant and pretentious. You don't see this in any other Wiki city article. It's perhaps the worst Wiki page on a city I have read thus far. Please cut the hyperbole and speculated claims from this article and streamline it to make it easier to read. About 35% of its content can be easily cut. Thanks. Whisperer1982 (talk) 00:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Enough people have mentioned this that some of the mentions might warrant removal. Seasider53 (talk) 01:44, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

This has been brought up ad nauseum for years. The superlatives are reliably sourced statements, and New York is characterized in its very identity by its many, many superlatives. Note that "superlative" does not equate to "superior". Therefore, this article has withstood the grand test of time and has retained its strength by its inherent integrity. Wikipedia is neither about modesty nor about eliciting emotional responses, and the articles aren't meant to be taken personally. It simply tells it as it is. Castncoot (talk) 02:48, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

I understand very little of all that. Seasider53 (talk) 10:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia reflects reliable sources and reliable sources frequently talks about NYC's superlatives, i.e. "most ... in the world" claims. Just being the most something in the world doesn't necessarily mean that NYC is not your city. People are free to scout out similar RSes from news articles and add them to other cities. I really don't see how that threatens your life. Aaron Liu (talk) 11:12, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Exactly. And in fact, other city articles tout their own cities' superlatives extensively, whatever superlatives they may have. And as long as they are reliably sourced, it's valuable information to learn about those cities as well. Castncoot (talk) 12:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

You ignored the previous discussions about this (see the recent archives; no, I’m not looking them up for you). Seasider53 (talk) 12:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

I won't hold my breath then. When a significant proportion of the population categorically disagrees with you on a broad premise, it's better to take a granular look at sentences rather than taking a bulldozer to the entire article. It has occurred to me however, Seasider53, echoing the sentiment expressed above by the previous editor here, how exactly does this article affect your life? Castncoot (talk) 13:56, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't understand many of your questions, this being another. Why would the article affect my life? Seasider53 (talk) 14:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

I was addressing Whisperer's remark, without much to do with Seasider, that the article is trying to say, if you don't live in New York City, especially Manhattan, then you do not deserve to live Aaron Liu (talk) 14:41, 23 April 2024 (UTC)