Talk:Nader Shah's invasion of India

Rename

This article should be renamed: Invasion of the sardar Empire(182.182.19.151 (talk) 03:40, 1 June 2012 (UTC))

some sources for the article

the editors might want to look at BOOKS 1 [1] 2[2] to improve the content and cite numbers and online source [3] for some figures -- ÐℬigXЯaɣ 19:58, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)

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Sack of Delhi as its own article

I think the Sack of Delhi in particular is notable enough for its own article. The sack was what made the whole campaign so impactful; the Afsharids gain extraordinary wealth and new prestige, while the Mughal Empire begins a downward spiral.

Currently, that title just redirects to the "Plunder" section.  — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  05:19, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

afsharid empire

It is ridiculous to say that the afsharid empire is a Persian empire.. This is a falsification and contrary to reality.. Σύμμαχος (talk) 18:13, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

• Wikipedia is written using reliable sources, and they "do" use Persian empire when referring to Nader Shah's empire. What we personally believe is irrelevant. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:09, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
  • Actually, expert sources on the subject sometimes prefer things like "Naderid" to either "Persian" or "Ashfarid". See the quarter-page discussion on this very point at Axworthy 2018, p. 7 for example and for the reasons. Uncle G (talk) 11:12, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
    • Axworthy, Michael (2018). Crisis, Collapse, Militarism and Civil War: The History and Historiography of 18th Century Iran. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780190250324.

== Help ==

Rasnaboy, I observed that the caption for the Koh-i-noor was missing and tried to add it seeing the example of the Wikipedia template but while the caption appeared, the image disappeared. Please fix it.-Mossad3 (talk) 04:09, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

I fixed it now. Thanks anyway.-Mossad3 (talk) 04:18, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for removing the, "File" word, I had overlooked it.-Mossad3 (talk) 04:21, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Crossing through sock of Y2edit? Doug Weller talk 07:46, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

"Iranian Afsharid dynasty of Persia"

If "Iranian" specifies ethnicity, than it's false, Afsharid dynasty was a Turkoman dynasty. if it specifies region, then it's mentioned twice (as "of Persia"). I'm fixing that. BerkBerk68^talk 18:59, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

• Blair, Sheila S. (2001). "An Amulet from Afsharid Iran". The Journal of the Walters Art Museum. 59: 85–102. JSTOR 20168605.

• Emerson, John; Floor, Willem (1987). "Rahdars and Their Tolls in Safavid and Afsharid Iran". Journal of the Economic and Social History of the Orient. 30 (3): 318–327. JSTOR 3631817.

• Tucker, Ernest (1998). "1739: History, Self, and Other in Afsharid Iran and Mughal India". Iranian Studies. 31 (2): 207–217. doi:10.1080/00210869808701905. JSTOR 4311145.

• Esposito, John L., (ed) (2004). The Oxford Dictionary of Islam. Oxford University Press. p. 71, "In the conflicts following the death of the Iranian ruler Nadir Shah in 1747..."

• Asher, Catherine Blanshard; Asher, Catherine Ella Blanshard; Asher, Catherine B. (1992). Architecture of Mughal India. Cambridge University Press. p. 301, "...the Iranian ruler Nadir Shah invaded Delhi."

• Alam, Muzaffar; Subrahmanyam, Sanjay (2007). Indo-Persian Travels in the Age of Discoveries, 1400-1800. Cambridge University Press. p. 245, "...invasion of North India by the Iranian conqueror, Nadir Shah Afshar."

• Schwartz, Schwartz Kevin L. (2020). Remapping Persian Literary History, 1700-1900. Edinburgh University Press. "...on the triumphs and heroics of the Iranian ruler Nadir Shah (r. 1736–47)."

• Emon, Anver M.; Ahmed, Rumee., (ed.) (2018). The Oxford Handbook of Islamic Law. Oxford University Press. p. 495, "...Iranian Afsharid ruler, Nadir Shah (r. 1736–47)..."

• Hodgson, Marshall G. S. (2009). The Venture of Islam, Volume 3: The Gunpower Empires and Modern Times. University of Chicago Press. p. 146, "...Iranian ruler Nadir Shah had sacked Delhi..."

I wonder if you regard Napoleon's domain as "Italian" as well. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:10, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Some more sources, obviously a synonym for "Iran(ian)" in this context;

• Floor, Willem (2005). "Dutch trade in Afsharid Persia (1730–1753)". Studia Iranica. 34 (1): 43–93. doi:10.2143/SI.34.1.583514.

• Tucker, Spencer C., (ed.) (2019). Middle East Conflicts from Ancient Egypt to the 21st Century: An Encyclopedia and Document Collection. ABC-CLIO. p. 695, "...the army of Persian ruler Nadir Shah and Ottoman Empire forces under Yegen Mehmet Pasha."

• Hofmeester, Karin; Grewe, Bernd-Stefan (2016). Luxury in Global Perspective: Objects and Practices, 1600–2000. Cambridge University Press. p. 27, "...the Persian ruler Nadir Shah (ruled 1736–47) had invaded northern India."

• Kaicker, Abhishek (2020). The King and the People: Sovereignty and Popular Politics in Mughal Delhi. Oxford University Press. p. 18, "Persian ruler Nadir Shah's invasion of the Mughal empire in 1739..."

• Embree, Ainslie T. (2020). Frontiers into Borders: Defining South Asia States, 1757–1857. Oxford University Press, "...Central Asia fell to the great Persian conqueror, Nadir Shah..."

• Wink, André (2020). The Making of the Indo-Islamic World: c.700–1800 CE. Cambridge University Press. p. 15, "...the Persian conqueror Nadir Shah."

--HistoryofIran (talk) 19:41, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

You are not even following my edits, Afsharid dynasty is Turcoman as Iranica points out, and that statement does not indicate a specific ethnic origin for a country but dynasty instead. Also there is a significant Turkic population in Iran since Seljuk invasion and Turkic peoples has been much more active at the region than Italians being at the France. I don't think Napoleonic France had Italian language as military language. BerkBerk68^talk 19:49, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

• "Afsharid dynasty is Turcoman as Iranica points out, and that statement does not indicate a specific ethnic origin for a country but dynasty instead."

Turcoman is an ethnicity. Not a nationality. Sources stating Nader as Iranian are speaking from a nationality not an ethnicity. There is this thing that started in the 18th century called Nationalism. The Politics of Nationalism in Modern Iran, ʿAli MīrʹAnṣari, page 102. You might try reading before you start editing.

• "Also there is a significant Turkic population in Iran since Seljuk invasion and Turkic peoples has been much more active at the region than Italians being at the France."

Which is a completely meaningless statement since:

• "...than Italians being at the France."

You mean aside from that particular person of Italian ancestry.....Napoleone Buonaparte. At this point it would be wise just to concede your knowledge of history is limited and simply move on. --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:30, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Comparing whole Turcoman influence of Iran that lasted almost a millennium to a "particular person of Italian ancestry" that is already mentioned above, and insulting other editors' knowledge for a second time. I can not understand your emphasis on wisdom since your moves are not that wise at all. BerkBerk68^talk 21:00, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Ignoring what I have said concerning nationalism, while also ignoring that Turcoman is an ethnicity not a nationality does nothing to present yourself as knowledgeable. And since you still have not gotten it, HistoryofIran's statement was to highlight that Iranian, used in this context, is a nationality not an ethnicity, much like Napoleon's article states he was a French military commander, not Italian.

• "I can not understand your emphasis on wisdom since your moves are not that wise at all."

Probably because I do not write my own opinion into articles. Calling an academic "Iranian" when in fact they are not could be construed as disruptive POV editing. Just to let you know, since you are so keen on "wisdom" this applies to even deceased academics.--Kansas Bear (talk) 21:26, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

"I wonder if you regard Napoleon's domain as "Italian" as well." Stop using that stupid argument. French Empire was French nation state after the French Revolution. Afsharid Empire were early modern state and the nation-state structure had not yet emerged at that time, so you just being anachronistic. We should use WP:CIR on you with this trashy argumentation. --Belugan (talk) 22:39, 24 July 2022 (UTC) <--- blocked sock of User:Beyoglou

Interesting that a user who has only edited since 20 July knows that WP:CIR exists (not how it actually works though), and even more so that they are for some reason hostile from the get go. The sources above contradict you, and thus I will use that argument as much as I want. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:48, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

It isn't hard to read policies in 1 month. You must try it too. Also clearly with my all good faith your compentence isn't good enough to edit wikipedia with this argumantation. Belugan (talk) 01:26, 25 July 2022 (UTC) <--- blocked sock of User:Beyoglou

If you've actually read them, you wouldn't randomly throw them around like this (in other words, WP:ASPERSIONS), especially not in such a hostile manner. This including your sudden and random hostility towards me all suggests something completely different. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:28, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm sorry if I were hostile against you, I will be more careful. Belugan (talk) 01:57, 25 July 2022 (UTC) <--- blocked sock of User:Beyoglou