Talk:Mount Kilimanjaro

Trivia section

I've removed the following entries from the "Popular culture" section, since they appear to be wholly trivial mentions and are unsourced:

• Mount Kilimanjaro was specifically mentioned in the Toto song "Africa".
• It was mentioned in the song "Burn For You" by TobyMac.
• 1994: It appeared in the song "Circle of Life" in the Disney film, The Lion King.
• 2008: In the film Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa, King Julien suggests that the animals offer a sacrifice in the mountain's volcano in order to appease the water gods.
• Kilimanjaro is mentioned in a song by the band Midnite on their 1997 Unpolished album.
• "Kilimanjaro" is the title of a song from the 2010 Indian Tamil movie, Enthiran.
• Mount Kilimanjaro is featured in a 2012 Funky Winkerbean storyline where characters Les Moore and his daughter Summer climb the mountain just before the latter heads off to college.

I am not familiar enough with non-scientific sources to source these, so I'll leave them here for the time being. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 10:30, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Maintenance tag

I've addressed the sections issue, but I don't see problems with the tone or words. The section is long, yes, but we are talking about a geologically moderately complex volcano. Will ask the IP who placed the template. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 21:23, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. — 2601:183:4000:D57A:CC58:460E:D96E:F304 (talk) 21:24, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Kilimanjaro from Amboseli

This image seems to better show the two peaks than the dark photo in the Drainage section. If you agree, please replace. TGCP (talk) 16:24, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

I think the photo in the drainage section needs editing in an editing program to adjust the shadows and highlights. While the Amboseli view photo is more aesthetically pleasing, that cloud bank is distracting.--Quisqualis (talk) 17:44, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Last eruption

The article states that the last eruption occurred between 150,000 and 200,000 years ago but the Global Volcanism Program website gives Kilimanjaro's last known eruption as unknown. It also makes the claim that a group of youthful-looking nested craters on the summit of Kibo are of apparent Holocene age. Volcanoguy 16:10, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

@Volcanoguy: The dates in question are radiometric dates obtained on lava flows, which the Nonnotte paper then describes as "last volcanicity". My personal theory is that the summit craters may be derived from later explosive activity that wasn't dated and could be much more recent than the dated lava flows. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:39, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Non-indigenous

No reports by Arabs prior to 1800? --Haruo (talk) 16:00, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Is it worthwhile to create a Kilimanjaro climbing records page?

Mostly because in its current form, the section seems to attract poorly written and way too many examples that sometimes appear to violate NOTNEWS. It'd probably be ineffective to try to remove examples from the main page, so segregating them may work better. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 21:24, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Good idea. Afasmit (talk) 21:59, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Porter records

The 2010 committee might see it as sufficient evidence, but the claim is extremely doubtful. Far more likely is that the man was a porter of a different expedition prior to the first world war. Until there's more reliable evidence that these porters actually were on Kilimanjaro for the initial climb, I don't see that it's sufficiently documented to be included here.

This paragraph was included specifically to address the commonly cited claim that Yohani Lauwo was a first ascendant. Many editors have added his name to the first ascendants over the years, and this text explains where that notion comes from. The extensive description of the 1889 climb by Meyer and Purtscheller, which includes an enthusiastic description of Mwini Amani, who shared and prepared their high camps, makes it clear that there were no further co-ascendants at the time. This is a touchy subject, so the language in the section you deleted was intentionally impartial, while leading the reader to conclude, just like you did, that he had been a porter in later expeditions. I've changed the too open-minded "the claim is not without controversy" at the end of the paragraph to "the claim appears unlikely". Afasmit (talk) 18:27, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Trekking Section

This section is written like an advert by a company - using the word you etc. Needs immediate cleanup. Barbicanf (talk) 15:56, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

To me it reads more like a WP:TRAVELGUIDE - which is it already tagged for - rather than an advert, and I don't think that {{copyedit}} is correct at all. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:45, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Copy edit comments and queries

As part of the GOCE copy edit I have blanked, but not deleted, the thinly evidenced and inherently improbable suggestion that a 117 year old was identified as a participant of the first ascent a century after the event. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:27, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Yohani Lauwo often is mentioned as first ascendant elsewhere. Because of that, he is regularly added to the lede and the infobox as such. It is therefore important to mention him and keep this explanation in the text. This is a sensitive issue, involving understandable resentment of the colonialist superiority complex and equally understandable believe that someone local would have climbed Kilimanjaro before those colonialists did. The latter is aggravated by the fact that due to glacier melt the ascent is now just a long hike up. We've tried to write it carefully, but any improvements are appreciated.Afasmit (talk) 19:19, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Fair enough, I'll leave it substantially as it is, but relook at it from a copy edit point of view. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:37, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

I'd love if we could dump all the climbing history things other than the absolute essentials into another page, their quality is often terrible and there is certainly precedent for problematic parts of a page getting spun off. Climbing of Kilimanjaro, perhaps? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 21:23, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

I am only the copy editor. but I like the idea of moving the ascent and trekking sections elsewhere, with a brief summary and a "main article" or two as pointers. This may well improve the quality of this article and of the spin offs. I note that Mount Kilimanjaro climbing routes already exists, and most, or all, of the trekking content could go there. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:31, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Your "dump all the climbing history things", "their quality is often terrible" and "problematic parts" suggests you haven't actually read the history section. It's not very long, but if you split it off, do it for the whole segment, as first sightings, exploration, and first ascent is a coherent story. The climbing routes section and page is where the "how to" and "advert" problems accumulate. The climbing records section, much condensed from the past, could perhaps go there, rather than in the history section. Afasmit (talk) 08:41, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

I did in fact read the section. It's always been attracting these questionable examples. JoJo Eumerus mobile (talk) 12:14, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Mythology

I have hidden, but not deleted, uncited material in the Mythology section.

In popular culture

I have hidden, but not deleted, instances in the In popular culture section where Kilimanjaro is incidental. We do not need a list of every film or documentary where the mountain appears briefly in the background. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:09, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Lauwo

I just took out a sentence However, this would imply he lived to the age of 125, so the claim appears unlikely. because it was unsourced and looked like original research, but I think that the preceding sentence Lauwo died on 10 May 1996, 107 years after the first ascent. It is sometimes suggested that he was a co-first-ascendant of Kilimanjaro. as "Another Land" does not look like a reliable source to me especially not for such a strong claim. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 12:26, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Why is this article not entitled just Kilimanjaro?

It is considered inappropriate to refer to Mount Fujiyama. Because "yama" is Japanese for "mountain" it is considered polite to refer to it as either Mount Fuji or Fujiyama. Similarly the highest peak in North America is known as only Denali, its identification in the Koyukon language, and so it appears in Wikipedia, that is not as "Mount Denali", even though the name "Denali" does not include a sub-component which is a local word for mountain. The article on "Mount Kilimanjaro" is clear that "Kilima" is Swahili for a hill, so why is Kilimanjaro qualified in the title of this article by the English "Mount"? Jamescobban (talk) 04:33, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Etymology

> Others have assumed that kilima is Kiswahili for mountain. The problem with this assumption is that kilima actually means hill and is, therefore, the diminutive of mlima, the proper Kiswahili word for mountain. However, "[i]t is ... possible ... that an early European visitor, whose knowledge of [Kiswahili] was not extensive, changed mlima to kilima

That sure is possible. For example, here in the Netherlands, we have a lot of hills whose names end with berg, even though berg means mountain (heuvel would be hill). So I do think it's possible that early Europeans, especially from a geographically lower country like the Netherlands, could have mixed up the Kiswahili words. Monda (talk) 13:38, 5 December 2023 (UTC)