Talk:Melkite Greek Catholic Church

Description seems weird

The current description seems weird and confusing to me. Isn't the Melkite Catholic Church simply those Eastern Orthodox under the authority of the Patriarch of Antioch who reestablished communion with Rome in the 18th century? john k 04:19, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

same article

Look at Melkite

Overhaul

You'll noticed that I've performed quite a thorough overhaul of the handful of article about this church. The Melkite article mainly deals with the term, as it was historically used for those not in communion with Rome as well. The Melkite Greek Catholic Church article deals with the Eastern rite Catholic Church of that name. I chose this from among the other suggestions (Greek-Catholic Melkite Church, Melkite Catholic Church and Greek Catholic Church) as it seems to be the preferred name of the church in English. I have been bold: I hope you don't mind. I have incorporated the useful information in the existing articles, but have had to throw out a lot of misinformation too. I hope you agree that the article is now in a better state. --Gareth Hughes 21:31, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

History section

The history section seems a bit pov, I understand that the western rite influence eroded the eastern church but the phrasing occasionally seems overly emotional... but beyond that it seems to be a little rambly and run on. If in knew enough about the subject to fix it I would, but a general suggestion is to clarify and space out the thoughts throughout the section. --3:33, 26 November 2006

non-Arab Middle East Christians

I think people should have a look at the doings of some anti-Arab Christian activists at the Assyrian-related articles. They even designed a totally inaccurate and propagandist Syriacs box, mentioning Maronites and Melkites as "Syriacs", thus non-Arabs, which I proposed for deletion here. Pylambert 23:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

something ain't right

How did Maximos IV Sayegh, who the article says ruled (not really the right word I guess) 1846-1878, attend Vatican II in 1965? I thought maybe it was supposed to be 1946-1978, but then it says Maximos V Hakim ruled 1967-2000. Whassup? KarlM 04:48, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I've corrected the dates for Patriarch Maximos IV Sayegh. He did go to Vatican II. I think there was some confusion as he is mentioned recounting a story of a predecessor. — Gareth Hughes 13:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Confused

Is the coat of arms at the top of the page Maximos V's or the Chuch's outright? Briaboru

I'm not positive, but I think the inscription may be particular to a patriarch and the heraldic design is that of the Church (ie, doesn't change.) Perhaps someone knows the answer. Majoreditor 16:21, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Melkites not the oldest rite in Catholicism

The following sentence is wrong,"...the Melkites sometimes consider themselves to be the oldest rite of Catholicism."

The Melkite Catholics are a church not a rite. The term rite refers to the liturgy, and the Byantine rite is NOT the oldest in Christendom. --68.45.161.241 16:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

If I remember Bp. Elya's remarks correctly, the Melkites were not always of the Byzantine liturgical rite, but adopted it during the Middle Ages; they originally worshipped according to one of the Syrian rites. Chonak 04:41, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Liturgical language

I dispute that Arabic is the liturgical language of the Melkite Church, considering it's more or less, the Melkite vernacular. Greek is the liturgical language because liturgical languages are rarely the language of the people. Sort of like Latin in the Western Church--68.45.161.241 04:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality?

I just included the neutrality tag in the page. I am no expert in the field, but this certainly contains an inacceptable amount of POV language. The author(s) may have a point, but the way a lot of the information regarding the history of the church and the behaviour of Western Christians in the Holy Land and similar issues is currently presented in an absolutely un-encyclopedic way. Thomas Ruefner 18:10, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Syriac?

Can someone please explain why this talk page has a Syriac categorization? I don't get that -- the Melkite church is Byzantine, rather than Syriac, in its liturgical tradition. Am I missing something? GMPHARO 03:07, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Clean up and expand this article

I am going to start cleaning up and expanding this article in a few weeks. Does anyone have any suggestions or requests? Majoreditor 17:54, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm slowly starting to expand this article, adding content and references. There's also much cleanup to be done. Any suggestions as to how to organize the article? Majoreditor 04:39, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Protosynkellarios and Byzantine vs. Syriac

I tried to search for this word on the internet as well as in the New Advent Encyclopedia and could not find it. It could be spelled wrong. Also, a note on the discussions about the Syriacness/Byzantininess of the Church. It's a Byzantine rite Church; I attend one in Cairo- the liturgical language is greek though the vernacular (Arabic) is used for almost the entire mass on a normal basis. I'll ask the priest this Sunday about the "protosynkellarios" but figured whoever put it in the article could clarify this point faster than that. 12 April 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.54.204.68 (talk) 14:27, 12 April 2007 (UTC).

The word is spelled Protosyncellus in Wikipedia. There are alternate spellings as well. Majoreditor 16:43, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Catholic and ?Orthodox?

I keep seeing on the internet that the Melkite Catholic Church is considered and included to be both Catholic (in union with the Pope and professing the Catholic faith) and Orthodox (somehow included in the Orthodox communion). This page does not offer any information on any kind of relationship between Melkite Catholics and Orthodoxy but another page on Wikipedia suggest that it might be so. Catholic sources say that the Melkites are Catholic. Orthodox sources do not mention the Melkites at all and do not include　Melkites in their list of Orthodox Churches. It seems to me that this is one of those myths that pop up from time to time but if there is any truth to this would someone with more knowledge them me please inform me or at least direct me to the place with the correct information. If it is true (big if I think) then it really seems like a big deal and should be mentioned not only in this article but also the one on ecumenism. We do not want to misrepresent any thing so lets get some facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.127.251.137 (talk) 04:52, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

The Melkite Catholic Church is currently in communion with the Roman Catholic Church but not the Eastern Orthodox Church. See the article on Elias Zoghby for additional details. Majoreditor (talk) 04:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Often Melkites and other Byzantine-rite Eastern Catholics are described as "Orthodox in union with Rome" . This is a short way of saying that they share the Eastern Orthodox Churches' liturgy, spiritual heritage, saints, ways of prayer, and theological approaches, while being in full sacramental communion and full unity of faith with the Church of Rome. - Chonak (talk) 01:41, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

"Patriarchate of Antioch"

From two edits on 27 December 2010, there appears to be a disagreement among editors about whether to include the Greek name (Πατριαρχεῖον Ἀντιοχείας, Patriarcheîon Antiocheías) in the lede of the article.

Is there a way to confirm whether the Church uses this term as its name in Greek? --Chonak (talk) 04:12, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

the formal name of the church is Melkite Greek Catholic Church of Antioch and of All the East, of Alexandria and of Jerusalem [1]. The wording and of All the East, of Alexandria and of Jerusalem was added in 1838, while the reference of Antioch is the historical claim. About the language, even if nowadays most liturgies are celebrated in Arabic, the formal language is Greek (something like the Latin in the Catholic Church), thus we shall list both the Arabic and Greek form of the church name. You can also check the liturgical books of said church, as the The Horologion edited by Sophia Press. A ntv (talk) 08:52, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

A ntv's answer is correct. The church often - but not always - refers to itself as "Greek" or "Byzantine". This reflects its liturgical traditions and theological orientation, as opposed to Syriac or Roman. However, Arabic is the most common liturgical language in use for the Church. Majoreditor (talk) 20:31, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the information so far. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to address my precise question yet. I was not able to find any Greek text in the 2005 Horologion, so I am still wondering whether the Greek expression "Πατριαρχεῖον Ἀντιοχείας" is used anywhere as the equivalent of "Melkite Greek Catholic Church". For that matter, are there Greek-language publications of the Church, or at least are there historical examples one can cite? --Chonak (talk) 01:04, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying the question. You raise a good point. I am not sure about whether that particular Greek phrase is used as the equivalent by a reliable source. I will check and see what I can find. Majoreditor (talk) 03:09, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Fallout

The title "Fallout from the Fourth Ecumenical Council" makes it sound like it was the melkites who broke away. I changed "from" to "of", but is it still confusing? 24.191.87.42 (talk) 02:45, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Fusion with Arabic language and culture

I found this section hard to digest, but the word enracination struck me as too obscure to add value here. My vocabulary is large enough, but when my google search results for this obscure word started with mostly French results and this sole, not-quite-authoritative, definition (with usage examples as obscure as the word itself,) I decided a rewording is merited.

No single appropriate word came readily to mind, so I googled for some term to embody "cultural blending." I found no one word, but I did find the term "cultural blending" used often enough. When I saw its usage in the following publications, I deemed the term an adequate improvement to this text.

• Oxford Handbook of Evolutionary Psychology, R.I.M. Dunbar & Louise Bazrrett, eds., Oxford University Press Inc., New York, 2007, pp 574-575.
• The Oxford Handbook of Philosophy of Social Science, Harold Kincaid, ed., Oxford University Press Inc., New York, 2012, p 392.
• Culture and the Evolutionary Process, Robert Boyd & Peter J. Richerson, University of Chicago Press, Chicago, IL, 1985, various pp.

etc.

I also tried to tighten up some other wording of this section. Two items could use some further attention:

1. "Whereas the Greek language and culture remained important {{{for whom??}}}, especially for the Melkites of Jerusalem, Antiochene Melkite tradition..."
   1. Might this be better phrased so? "While the Greek language and culture remained important for the Melkites of Jerusalem, Antiochene Melkite tradition..." What other group is in play here?
2. "The second defining moment..." — I reworded event to moment in this section to preserve the parallelism among "the four defining moments," but there must be a better word than moments to embody the fallout [consequences], fusion [evolution], communion [decision], and [post-]election [rivalry] sub-sections of the "History" section.

77th Trombone (talk) 08:56, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Catholic liturgical rites

Just added this rite here. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:45, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Vatican II conflicts over Latin and Melkite traditions

If this issue arose after V2 I don't see how it can have come to public attention in the USA in 1958. Can someone clarify this section please? Tigerboy1966  09:05, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

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Catholic Church naming conventions RfC

There is currently an RfC at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Catholic Church)#RfC: should this page be made a naming convention that may be of interest. Chicbyaccident (talk) 09:51, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

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Partiarch's title ?MSP?

What does the MSP stand for? There is no article on that and I couldn't find it online. I suggest removal if no one knows why it's there. Double Plus Ungood (talk) 03:36, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm removing it. If anyone has a problem with that, write it on the talk. Any edit wars WILL be reported. Double Plus Ungood (talk) 23:30, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

• S.M.S.P. is the post-nominal abbreviation for the missionary order to which the Patriarch belongs. Offhand, it probably stands for "Missionary Society of Saint Paul". Please see [2]. Bistropha (talk) 04:34, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks so much! I'm putting it back, but unfortunately there is no article to link it to, which is frankly what bothered me in the first place. There should eally be a page for this. Again, thank you. Double Plus Ungood (talk) 04:31, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Any common term for the Greek Orthodox and Melkites in Israel/Palestine?

Is there any umbrella term for the Greek Orthodox and the Melkite Catholic (aka Melkite Byzantine Catholic) that can be applied to those living in Israel/Palestine? Because the Greek Orthodox there are under the Patriarch in Jerusalem, not in Antioch. They are the largest 2 Churches there, share Byzantine roots & rites, but I can't find a common term for them! Arminden (talk) 17:28, 22 January 2024 (UTC)