Talk:List of wars by death toll

Three Kingdoms Period Death Totals

Can someone provide a source for the death totals of the three kingdoms period provided? If this is based off of the census data of Han and Jin, it does not mean that many people died in the war, just that the population declined. I suspect a significant fraction of that was from the older generation dying out during the conflict and a new generation simply not being born, because the men were away fighting. Unless there is a source, I am not aware of, that lists that range as a casualty number, I suspect the numbers provided are inflated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Redbird58 (talk • contribs) 02:37, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

@Redbird58 Though no one knows what the true death toll is, the census show how devasting this waring period was. it took 4 centuries for the country to repopulate. main cause of death was due to famine that was caused from the war. 2604:CB00:B89:6B00:2115:D288:6DE8:6405 (talk) 16:41, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

I don't doubt that the war was destructive but without at least further clarification the way it is presented here is misleading, as it is shown next to actual war deaths of other conflicts. I suggest at least adding a note clarifying that the number provided is population decline, and not war deaths. Redbird58 (talk) 06:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

While I don't disagree with adding a note. All war deaths from recent times to ancient times, census have been a large part in counting deaths. But there are research to gain the best more accurate estimates. For instance the Thirty Years War (1618-1648), the Holy Roman Empire population was reduced by 12 million. But obviously not all of the 12 million were death's. Modern times it is estimated that the true death toll is around 8 million. With the Three Kingdoms, there is hasn't been a major death toll study on this period. Hopefully one day there will be one.

"We do not find any statistical evidence telling us just how much destruction these raids caused, how many Chinese they either killed or displaced." It is all we have. Regarding census, basing on one for the 20th century, World War II killed none and many were resurrected.--Maxaxa (talk) 04:52, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

TaipingRebellion1850 (talk) 23:25, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

References

New image reversed

I added a new image to the "Charts and graphs" section (example below) which was promptly removed (reverted) by a user with the explanation that it is an "Ugly image that takes up way too much space". I would appreciate some feedback from other users regarding this matter and weather it makes sense to include the image in the page or not.

Seven deadliest wars after 1900. The length of each spiral segment is proportional to the war's duration and its area size to its death toll.

Xkdhd4956 (talk) 10:17, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

This is honestly a really good image! I would love to see it on this page ParthNaik1605 (talk) 05:49, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

This image should certainly be reinserted. It complies with the conditions laid out in the 'Bible' of charts and graphs, The Visual Display of Quantitative Information by Edward R. Tufte (1983, Graphics Press). The ideal graph, according to Tufte, should synthesise a wealth of complex information into simple figures which can be understood at a glance, should combine multiple parameters in a single display (as this does death toll and war duration) and, if possible, should have an attractive aesthetic quality. The information in this graph could easily have been presented as a dot plot with war deaths on one axis and duration on the other, but that would have been sterile and without aesthetic. I have not read the full explanation of the above user for removing the image, but editors should be reminded that doing such radical surgery for purely subjective reasons ('Ugly image...too much space') violates Wikipedia policy and is a disservice to its users. C.bonsin (talk) 19:31, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Era

Would it make more sense to use the Common Era/CE/BCE year type for this article? I think it might, given the non-religious/non-Christian nature of the subject matter. Thoughts? — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 21:47, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Current deaths chart could use a refresh

I propose an alternative chart.

Conflict death tolls by year and number.

Death toll number is from a version of this page with "geometric mean" column, which was present in Dec 2022, but no longer.

Python code to generate plot can be made available as a GitHub gist. Numbers and dates can be easily edited to update figure in future.

Note that 3 Kingdoms is missing because it wasn't present at the time I pulled the data.

Would error bars on the benefit the visual? Benando0 (talk) 01:06, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

And voila, an example of how not to make a graph (see my comment above about the removed graphic). This chart is too busy and both the x and y axes are confusing. Neither corresponds to either a linear or log scale. The reader has to work very hard to understand it and it has no aesthetic. Its only virtue is that it includes more conflicts than the above graph, but that also contributes to its 'business'. C.bonsin (talk) 19:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Reconquista - Wrong death toll, terrible source.

The source of the Reconquista is the 1897 religious text "The Rationalist's Manual" by the author Aletheia M.D. which is a pseudonym. "The Rationalist's Manual" is not a historical source, it is not a historical text, it is entirely focused on it's criticism of christanity aspect and partly talks about theology and ethics. In the entire text, only one singular "unsourced" paragraph has a death toll, or mentions Spain. ( he mentions a source "History of Conflict Between Religion and Science", by Draper, though I haven`t found any deathtoll about the Spanish Reconquista, this work is also digitalized and pubically available ). This is the part of Rationalist Manual.

"Let us look for a moment at the number of victims sacrificed on the altars of the Christian Moloch : 1.000.000 perished during the early Arian schism; 1.000.000 during the Carthaginian struggle; 7.000.000 during the Saracen slaughters. In Spain 5.000.000 perished during the eight Crusades; 2.000.000 of Saxons and Scandinavians lost their lives in opposing the introduction of the blessings of Christianity; 1.000.000 were destroyed in the Holy Wars against the Netherlands, Albigenses, Waldenses and Huguenots; 30.000.000 Mexicans and peruvians were slaughteed ere they could be convinced of the beauties of the Christian creed; 9.000.000 were burned for witchcraft; Total : 56.000.000" ( on page 88 )

I personally believe whoever added the 7 million number, was making a mistake and wrongly assumed the 7 million number of the Saracen-slaughter was about Spain, whereas the Rationalist's Manual talks about 5 million in Spain. In any case both numbers are awfully wrong.

The number of the witch-burnings should be especially telling what sort of man and what sort of text this was. During the actual witch-hunts, only between 35.000 - 50.000 people died, not 9 million. The only number that is somewhat accurate is the "1 million in the Holy wars against Netherlands, Albigenses, Waldenses and Huguenots", all other numbers are ridiculous.

The entire "Rationalist Manual" is public and freely available on the google preview. ArthasDayne (talk) 09:00, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

How can these figures be correct for Spain? Its population was only 5 million in 711 at the time of the Muslim conquest and had only grown by 1 to 2 million by the end of the last Crusade. C.bonsin (talk) 19:45, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire - Wrong death toll, terrible source.

The reference is a blog by a guy who invents figures without any bibliography. The figures he gives are nonsense. 194.38.172.194 (talk) 08:40, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Not only that, it includes deaths caused by smallpox over a period over 100 years. 186.128.45.231 (talk) 18:11, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Guatemalan Civil War

As many as 200,000 lost their lives during the Guatemalan civil war (1960-1996), 83 percent of whom were Mayan. 83.32.114.38 (talk) 17:45, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

If someone could fix Iraq invasion 2003

The begining of 2003 invasion did not claim 800,000-1,000,000 71.30.83.216 (talk) 07:31, 1 March 2024 (UTC)