Talk:List of Illyrians

Removal of non-rulers

List of Illyrians redirects here, and up to recently we also had various non-monarchs listed here, but then this happened. Revert? --Joy [shallot] (talk) 00:00, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

The scope problem has been fixed. --Omnipaedista (talk) 18:27, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Not ethnic Illyrians

Roman emperors and later on are people that came from the province of Illyricum and not ethnic Illyrians.They are called Illyricani and not Illyriani.This applied to all romans.Maximinus the Thrax was from the province of Thrace but he had a goth father and an Alan mother.Megistias (talk) 14:03, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

The credit belongs a group of "illyrian" emperors so called because some of them came from the province of Illyricum,The Ancient World: 1200 BC to AD 500,by Luigi ParetiMegistias (talk) 14:13, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

"These men are usually called the Illyrian emperors since they all were born in

that province and were raised to power by legions stationed there".page 546,The Ancient World by Joseph Ward SwainMegistias (talk) 14:15, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

A History of the Ancient World -page 505 by George Willis Botsford - History, Ancient

"Most of them were natives of Illyricum and its neighborhood, and hence axe called Illyrian emperors. As the people of that region were now largely German"Megistias (talk) 14:18, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Scope

The scope "list of rulers in Illyria" is confusing. In antiquity, regions didn't have defined borders. Many areas were considered part of a wider region, but transboundary regions often changed hands. The article includes foreign rulers in Illyria, but most of these are rulers of such transboundary regions which wouldn't be considered part of Illyria when controlled by a non-Illyrian. There were also regions which wouldn't be considered part of Illyria unless they were ruled by an Illyrian. So, the rule of Sirras in Lyncestis is described as an "Illyrian kingdom", but it was a transboundary region that was an "Illyrian kingdom" only because an Illyrian ruled it in his era. Thus, a "ruler in Illyria" was in most cases an "Illyrian ruler". The second problem is related to the term "ruler" - what does it mean? Largely egalitarian, kinship based, non-stratified communities which only saw stratification as a result of their contacts with the already stratified, slave societies of the Greco-Anatolian world didn't have "rulers". Only in the last period of Illyrian prehistory do true rulers emerge who use for themselves the title "King". The rest are certainly leaders of tribal communities, but they are not kings of stratified and centralized societies. I think that the article should be renamed to List of Illyrians and reorganized as other articles about ancient people.--Maleschreiber (talk) 21:57, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

I personally agree with the renaming. This article necessarily needs a cleanup and expansion with maybe new bibliography and so on.--Lorik17 (talk) 23:18, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

@Iaof2017: I'm busy right now to do a reorganization of the article, but if you have the time could you do some basic grunt work and link articles from Category:Illyrian people to the list? We need to have the full picture about how many articles are relevant to this list (not just rulers) and then reorganize sections.--Maleschreiber (talk) 01:02, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello Maleschreiber, hope you're well. I will prepare something on my user page here [1] and feel free to make corrections or give your input. :)--Lorik17 (talk) 20:55, 9 January 2021 (UTC)