Talk:List of highest-grossing Punjabi-language films

Article scope

Let's discuss the scope of this article here. Should it include only Punjabi-language films made in India? Should it also include Punjabi-language films made in Pakistan? What about films made in both those countries? What about other countries? I'm hoping we can build a consensus but, barring that, perhaps we can use the various proposals in a future RfC. Woodroar (talk) 01:39, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

• Include all Punjabi-language films, no matter where they are made. My suggestion is to include every film in Punjabi, whether it was made in India, Pakistan, both, or somewhere else entirely. As mentioned at the ANI discussion, I believe that reliable sources support this. For example: Deadline Hollywood calls Pakistani film The Legend of Maula Jatt "the highest-grossing Punjabi movie" and also "a Pakistan-made or Punjabi-language film". In other articles, they stress where films were made rather than assuming "Punjabi" means "Indian": "The Punjabi film hails from 'Pollywood'" and "an Indian Punjabi family comedy". Variety also calls The Legend of Maula Jatt a "Punjabi-language film" here and here. IndieWire also specifies where a film was made, again avoiding implying that "Punjabi" means "Indian": "Punjabi-language Indian film". Even The Times of India and The Indian Express call The Legend of Maula Jatt a "Punjabi film" here and here. Per our Core Content Policies, we should always look to reliable sources for how we describe and categorize our subjects. I don't think this case is any different. Woodroar (talk) 01:41, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

• @SunnyKambojLive, نعم البدل, Jahaza, Rsjaffe, Silver seren, and Nfitz: Can the editors who opined about the article scope at the ANI discussion, please comment on whether User:Woodroar's proposal is acceptable to them, or if an WP:RFC should be initiated? Abecedare (talk) 01:54, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  I don't have a specific opinion. Either separate by nation or not. @Woodroar is approaching the issue the correct way. It is a conversation about how films are best organized and how people looking up things in Wikipedia will best be served. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 02:13, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  Let's do one thing. Add all films and differ them by using a column of country of origin. The article is already long enough and adding films from Pakistan will make it even longer. Though I never had a problem with more knowledge.

  But also allow me to create another article - List of Highest-Grossing Indian-Punjabi (Panjabi) films using the same data that others and I have contributed in this article. And, I will make it a sub article of List of highest-grossing Indian films, like other regional cinemas of India. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 02:17, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  See WP:POVFORK for why we can't do that. Woodroar (talk) 02:44, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  Seconded - I'm not sure the point of creating a second article at this time. Nfitz (talk) 07:44, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  Why do Indian Punjabi films need to be exclusively categorised in an entirely separate article, why can they not be just included with all other Punjabi films? نعم البدل (talk) 13:05, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  I agree and accept his proposal. All Punjabi films, regardless of their origin, should be included in this article. نعم البدل (talk) 13:02, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

This article originally only had Indian Punjabi films. Browsing through different sections, it is clearly evident that all the data is from Punjab (India) apart from one minor inclusion of "The Legend of Maula Jatt", which has further initiated a debate on the scope of this article. Pakistan produced Punjabi films should have a completely separate article. Adding a section for them will make this article very long. Although highly unlikely, I hope we can reach a consensus. Mr. Harsh 06:38, 8 May 2023 (UTC) Mr. Harsh 06:38, 8 May 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harshjot singh gahunia (talk • contribs)

Harshjot singh gahunia, the oldest version of the article, before it was renamed multiple times, mentioned both India and Pakistan. Woodroar (talk) 12:28, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

List of highest grossing Indian Films have categories based on languages for all the regional cinema films. That why there should be discrimination for Indian Punjabi films?

I mean how it will be logical that List of Indian films contains an article about Punjabi films, and further Punjabi films will also have information about Pakistani Punjabi films. I don't know why people are not understanding this simple logic.

So, basically highest grossing Pakistani Punjabi films will come under Highest grossing Indian Films?

That's the reason we need to create a second article. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 17:31, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

I think I should ask a few people Indian Punjabi people to come here and debate. Will that do what we are trying to achieve? Consensus? SunnyKambojLive (talk) 17:33, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

No, that would be canvassing. Woodroar (talk) 17:49, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @SunnyKambojLive: While neutrally worded posts at WT:INCINE, WT:PAK, and WT:FILM would be ok, be careful not to fall afoul of WP:CANVASS. Abecedare (talk) 17:56, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Can someone answer my question above to reach consensus? I don't know why the discussion has suddenly stopped after I got blocked from editing the article in question. Have we reached consensus? What's the final decision? SunnyKambojLive (talk) 19:52, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

It can take days or weeks for a consensus to develop, just give it time.

For what it's worth, I think you'd have a better shot at convincing others if your argument was based on our content policies and not WP:OTHERCONTENT. It really doesn't matter what other articles are like. For all we know, they—like this article—don't reflect what reliable sources actually say. Like it or not, when sources talk about Punjabi films, they tend to mean all films in the Punjabi language, not only films from India. Woodroar (talk) 20:53, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

I like it even love it when they combine Punjab or Punjabis in any way. I am not a hatemonger. It is just that my logical reasoning does not allow me to think that these films can be put in one article. Even if we put them in the same, as many people want, I don't really have a problem. If it gives others peace of mind. There are just two films in Pakistani Punjabi category of highest grossing Pakistani films.

Now, arises another question. Do we need to put only Pakistani Punjabi films here? Or Pakistani-Urdu/Punjabi films as well. Because, then another situation will arise. A large number of Bollywood films since 1970s or even before that, contain Urdu language (e.g Sholay) and are considered Urdu/Hindustani films. Do we need to create another article where Urdu Indian and Urdu Pakistani films will come under the same article of list of highest-grossing Urdu films as more Muslim/Urdu speaking population resides in India than Pakistan (same as more Punjabi population resides in Pakistan than in India). My question is based on the same logic by which we are trying to put Punjabi films together irrespective of the country. Thanks. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 02:52, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Good question. The film should be majorly Punjabi. I'm sure the films listed in this article do contain Hindi dialogues or dialogues from other languages including English, but of course the main language should be Punjabi. Punjabi-Urdu films or Punjabi-Hindi films shouldn't be allowed. نعم البدل (talk) 19:04, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

As far as Urdu films are concerned, I doubt such an article would even be needed - let alone categorised to that extent (Urdu Indian/Pakistani etc). Nowadays, no high-grossing Indian films are specified to be in the Urdu language, and Urdu language films that are somewhat popular are only made in Pakistan. Old Bollywood films Sholay are (unfortunately) popularly known as Hindi films, not Urdu or Hindustani, despite dialogues originally being written in Urdu. نعم البدل (talk) 19:08, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

I would follow the sources. If reliable sources tend to call a film in Punjabi and Urdu a "Punjabi film", then I think it should be included. Woodroar (talk) 22:04, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Also, if Pakistani Punjabi films are going to be added, kindly convert the collections in INR and other foreign currencies wherever required. And, I think it is required at all the places except for Pakistan category, where PKR will be required. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 01:59, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Currency

After the inclusion of Pakistani movies in this article, there is now the situation of the currencies. To make it more WP:NPOV and more understandable (?) (I forgot the correct term), I suggest using dollars as the main currency and then the currency of the origin of the film in brackets. So for instance - for Maula Jatt it would be Rs. 208.3 crore (US$7.2 million). This is quite simple, due to templates like Template:PKRConvert and Template:INRConvert automatically converting figures into Dollars. Would anyone object to this, before I change all the gross stats? نعم البدل (talk) 18:45, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

I have no objections. Woodroar (talk) 21:40, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Currency 2

A new situation with the currency has arisen. @UCoE Freaks: feels that it's necessary to also show the gross figures in the Indian rupee. Where do we draw the line here? As per that logic, can I start adding values in Pakistani rupees on all of the other movies? I won't because it's unnecessary and the dollar suffices - but if I wanted to, should I? Where do we draw the line? I made use of Template:PKRConvert and Template:INRConvert to avoid this, yet it seems that users seem to which to keep that Indian influence perhaps? نعم البدل (talk) 22:10, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Pinging @Woodroar, Abecedare, ScottishFinnishRadish, and Nfitz: - sorry for the bother. نعم البدل (talk) 22:16, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

• I thought it was always in Indian rupees. Nfitz (talk) 22:45, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

  @Nfitz: It was, but it was messy, because there was no neutral currency, so I proposed using Template:PKRConvert and Template:INRConvert - which automatically converted the figures into dollars as well. I had a discussion on this prior to this, but only User:Woodroar had given any opinions on this. In spite of all this, UCoE Freaks went ahead and manually added INR figures to TLoMJ. نعم البدل (talk) 23:57, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Collapsing derail from user blocked as a sock. Woodroar (talk) 20:20, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

User:نعم البدل, don't lie brother. Indian figure is added only for The Legend of Maula Jatt in the third place, after Pakistani Currency and USD. All other movies in the list were already Indian and obviously their collections will be in Indian Rupees. Adding Indian Rupees to The Legend of Maula Jatt was necessary because it stands out from the rest of the list as Single Pakistani Punjabi film in the list. Also, it is unfair to compare INR's 57 cr to PKR's 230 cr. Symbol of Pakistani Rupees (Rs.) is also similar to Indian Rupees (Rs), though not in value. So, it will obviously create confusion for the readers. You removed the Indian conversion by giving excuse of WP:NPOV. But the same policy states what I did was right and as per the policy only. It's not about Indian influence. It's about neutrality. There would be influence if I had removed Pakistani currency and only added Indian currency. Just like you did by removing Indian Currency from a list where all other movies were in Indian currency. So, it is you who is trying to put a Pakistani influence here. Also, there was always a neutral currency - USD. I had to remove it because it was converting the collections as per current year and not the year in which the movies were released. Once you added it back, I came up with a solution so the collections can be automatically converted according to the release year. You are also lying about your proposal. You proposed that the USD will be the main currency and other currencies (acc. to Country origin) will be in bracket. [1] Instead, you added Pakistani currency as the main currency and put USD in brackets. You contradicted yourself. I made these changes before you even started any discussion. And, I never contadict it. I did not remove Pakistani currency or USD. I only added Indian currency where it was required to achieve neutrality as per WP:NPOV. There was no mess and there is no mess. It is just that you seem to have a problem with the mention of Indian currency along with Pakistani currency. This matter was already in discussion under Article scope, 2 weeks before you even started your discussion. Nobody seemed to have any problem then, as no one objected. But you User:نعم البدل went ahead and made changes as per your wish and preferences. UCoE Freaks (talk) 07:52, 10 December 2022 (UTC) Stop creating ruckus on such a minute issue. And, be thankful as I re-added the The Legend of Maula Jatt in the list and I am continuously updating it's country-wise collections. Show me some gratitude. UCoE Freaks (talk) 08:14, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

• Intentional or not, including (or converting to) Indian rupees for every movie implies that Punjabi films are all Indian—which reliable sources don't support, as mentioned in the "Article scope" section. My preference would be to include the currency for each film's origin and then a conversion to USD. So that would mean PRe for The Legend of Maula Jatt and ₹ for (currently) every other film. I think this is a "spirit of the rule" reading of MOS:CURRENCY, where we use the currency of the subject country/ies—in this case, India and Pakistan, and potentially others as more Punjabi films are made—but also convert to the US dollar, euro or pound sterling. MOS:CURRENCY also calls for using currency signifiers, which should resolve any confusion. So we should aim for formatting like "PRe 230 crore (US$10 million)" for The Legend of Maula Jatt and "₹ 57.67 crore (US$8.43 million)" for Carry on Jatta 2. The links for PRe, ₹, and crore may only be necessary the first time—but seeing as we have a sortable table, we may want to think about including it every time. Alternatively, we could change the "Worldwide Gross" heading to include an explanation that "figures are in ₹ or PRe crore". (My phrasing of "crore" is probably incorrect, though.) Just a thought. I'm open to other ideas! Woodroar (talk) 15:41, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Collapsing derail from user blocked as a sock. Woodroar (talk) 20:20, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

In the whole article, all the collections are first compared based on origin country. Whenever we compare something, it is compared on similar parameters. Earlier, all the films in the list were Indian, so the collections were converted accordingly and rightly so. Now, after one Pakistani film is added, it would be wise to adjust it according to other films. And not vice-versa. It does not imply in any way that all the films are Indian as the word Pakistani is clearly mentioned whenever I mentioned - The Legend of Maula Jatt. Infact, in the Pakistan section, 4 Indian films are mentioned and they are mentioned first in Pakistani currency and then, Indian currency. That does not make them Pakistani films. The only problem here is comparing one currency with another under one common section, creating confusion as if The Legend of Maula Jatt has done 4 times business than Carry on Jatta 2, though in reality, the former has done approximately 1.5 times business than the latter. If it can help, we can either remove the word Indian before the ₹85.10 or instead of Indian ₹85.10, we can mention Pakistani Rupees or Pakistani Currency in the bracket. UCoE Freaks (talk) 18:12, 10 December 2022 (UTC) But for WP:NPOV, which is a fundamental principle of Wikipedia and one of the three core content policies, adding Indian currency too, in brackets, would be the best solution for the readers to not face any confusion and to have neutral point of view while comparing collections. UCoE Freaks (talk) 18:27, 10 December 2022 (UTC) Soon, The Legend of Maula Jatt will release in India and then the collections will be compared according to Indian currency too under India section of the article. Still, nobody will consider it as Indian Film. It will remain a Pakistani Film. So, we should try to lessen the differences and not increase it on such minute issues. It will be better if we all come on the same page regarding this article. UCoE Freaks (talk) 18:47, 10 December 2022 (UTC) @UCoE Freaks: Sorry, with respect, none of that explains why the INR or a third/additional currency is needed. When I said that Dollars would be the main currency, I meant that it would be the neutral currency, nowhere did I say that a third currency would be added or needed. It would be the main currency (regardless of whether it was INR or PKR) but the second currency would be the Dollar - the neutral currency. I don't just have an issue with INR being added to a Pakistani film, I have an issue with the table looking messy - and that would be the same if it was an Indian film with PKR added, because too many currencies are unnecessarily being added. نعم البدل (talk) 23:05, 10 December 2022 (UTC) User:نعم البدل In my previous reply to you, I already gave three valid reasons to why Indian Currency is needed. And, I also mentioned Wikipedia's core policy that allows me to do so. Also, in my reply to User:Woodroar, I gave two more valid reasons for the same. Infact, there is no strong or valid reason due to which, INR can't be added. There are just speculations that INR will imply something, though there are no implications. Or the table looking messy, even that is not a case here. Table is looking absolutely fine. Just a third currency ... at some places; it's INR and at other places; it's PKR, is added for 5 valid reasons already explained. These are not added unnecessarily. There may be upto 10 editors on this page (may be even less). But there are 10,000+ readers of this article everyday. Let's take care of them, so they don't face any sort of confusion or misunderstanding, while reading or comparing collections. Also, there already are 4 Indian films with PKR added under Pakistan section with priority given to PKR as those collections are from Pakistan. UCoE Freaks (talk) 15:51, 11 December 2022 (UTC) @UCoE Freaks: What? A third currency is not needed (!), because it just clutters up the table 🤦. There are only supposed to be two currencies, 1. the currency of the origin of the film, and 2. Dollars. No 3rd currency - that was the whole point of using Template:PKRConvert and Template:INRConvert. And yes adding INR as a third currency does imply that Punjabi films are more of an "Indian", do not act naive, so as to say that it has no effect, it definitely does. You've only been adding INR figures as a third currency anyways! So I don't know why you keep mentioning that PKR is also being used, when it is being used for the movies who's origin (ie. Pakistani films) uses PKR. Not as a third currency. And no - I don't want to see PKR being utilised a third or additional currency either! نعم البدل (talk) 21:39, 11 December 2022 (UTC) نعم البدل Please don't get personal. What if I say you are being naive. Whatever you are saying is your opinion and your point of view. It may or may not be true from others point of view. I don't see any clutter or mess above, that's my pov. And, that' s conservative thinking that adding INR will make it look like Indian, as clearly Pakistani word is added in front of and wherever I mentioned The Legend of Maula Jatt. If you see clearly under the Pakistan Section, 4 Indian films are mentioned after The Legend of Maula Jatt. They are Indian Punjabi films and not Pakistani films. And PKR is mentioned there as the collections were from Pakistan. I don't know why you don't want to see what's in front of you. Let others put light on this topic as you are not understanding WP:NPOV or taking care of the readers. Wikipedia is not about what you want or not, it's about what the policies say and allow for the editors and readers. It seems like you don't care about the policies. Stop acting like an owner of this page WP:OWNERSHIP. Please be clear that you are not above the policies. UCoE Freaks (talk) 06:56, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Revert

Someone please revert the recent disruptive editing (major change) that has been done on this page. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SunnyKambojLive (talk • contribs) 06:28, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

According to their edit summary, User:Jayanthkumar123 removed the content because "most of the content is unsourced". They're correct, as I only counted 4 sources, and I'm unsure if any of them would be considered reliable. Virtually all of it was unsourced. As far as I'm concerned, these edits are in line with our original research policy and are the opposite of disruptive editing.

If you have reliable sources that support all of the removed claims, then they can be restored. Woodroar (talk) 14:19, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I have reliable sources. And, I will edit those once I will be able to resume editing this page.

Also, the person who edited this is not fully correct as he removed even well-sourced content, which is disruptive editing and not in line with the original research policy (Wikipedia's). SunnyKambojLive (talk) 17:15, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

He removed country-wise collections of the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, Germany and Malaysia. Some of which were well-sourced. And I have fully reliable sources for other less sourced - like New Zealand, Germany and Malaysia, that's from where I added these collections. It is just that those were yet to be added but then, I was partially blocked from editing this page. Otherwise, those would also be added. It would be wise if he had first asked for the remaining sources before making changes.

He also removed well sourced Domestic Openings Section. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 17:34, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Wrongly Adjusted for inflation

User:نعم البدل, You have converted already inflated figures (and not original collections on Indian films) and arranged them in the wrong order. And, what do you mean by Rs. 12 billion? 12 billion means 1200 crores in PKR, while original collections are 238.9 Cr in PKR. Kindly correct those as previous arrangements were absolutely correct and also correct 12 billion thing. You added US currency, good. But at least don't disrupt the order with wrong inflated figures.

User:Woodroar Kindly correct these, if u have some time. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 08:52, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2023

Hello I wanted to update you that Kali Jotta has for weeks been at 40.5 crore. Check Sacnilk or even Neeru Bajwa's instagram. Also Jodi is at 36 crore. These are the blockbusters of the year you should get them right. I am going to be submitting a link for you to see for yourself.

https://www.sacnilk.com/entertainmenttopbar/Pollywood_Box_Office_2023?hl=en

Going by these numbers Kali Jotta should be at number 8 between Chaar Sahibzade and Challa Mud Ke Ni Aya. And Jodi should be at number 10 between Sardarji and Challa Mere Putt 3. You have had the wrong update for Kali Jotta for months now. It is a historic film in terms of women centric movies doing well in Punjab. It is time to show your viewers a more realistic picture. SonikaG26 (talk) 18:40, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:08, 21 May 2023 (UTC)