Talk:Licia Albanese

August 2006

I am in the process of editing this article. I have received advice from Orbicle and would appreciate advice from nay others. Thank You. Kilbourne — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kilbourne (talk • contribs) 12:27, August 19, 2006‎ (UTC-4)

Who was her teacher?

Her connection with [Madama Butterfly] began early with her teacher, a contemporary of the composer and an important exponent of the title role in the previous generation.

Great, but can we not name this important person? -- JackofOz (talk) 21:20, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

She studied with the noted operatic soprano, Giuseppina Baldassarre Tedeschi 1881-1961. 208.87.248.162 (talk) 20:33, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Belatedly, thank you. I'll put her on my To Do list. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 09:55, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

When again did they invent sound recording?!

Quote: "One of the first generation of opera singers to appear widely in recordings and on the radio..."

Well, with the tagged-on last four words this statement is not totally wrong (as radio only found widespread acceptance in the 1930s and TV still later), but as a collector of 78rpm recordings I find it misleading. After all, many of the most prized operatic recordings were made even before Mme. Albanese was BORN (e.g. everything by Patti and Tamagno, as well as the better part of Caruso's, Melba's, Battistini's and Tetrazzini's discography, not to mention the literally THOUSANDS of lesser lights - after all, opera was THE central part of European musical culture for a hundred years, until the vulgar pleasures of jazz and pop, fed unto the masses by the (Jewish-/Afro-)American music publishers, relegated it to the "classical" side line, after the downfall of the rightful Central European governments in 1917/18!). ChrisZ78 (talk) 14:47, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

the photograph caption

The photograph caption has "Alabanese" -- an extra letter <a>. Perhaps someone who knows how can correct this to "Albanese".

Born 1909 or 1913?

I reverted the birth year mentioned in this article to 2013--Ms. Albanese insists that this is the year in which she was born and was wholeheartedly touched by any number of 100th birthday tributes in 2013. That said, her immigration papers indicate a birth year of 1909--and several major media outlets have judged this to be the correct date of birth despite the fact that Ms. Albanese herself never verified it. In the interests of transparency, perhaps the nature of the controversy/discrepancy is worthy of mention in the article. I defer to more seasoned Wikipedians to see if there is a precedent as to how conflicting dates are addressed. If reverting the dates from 1909 to 1913 contributed to rather than remediated the problem, I sincerely apologize. Mdleonar (talk) 20:00, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

OK, this is where WP:Verifiability, not truth comes into play. We are not here to, Solomon-like, decide definitively when she was born. We are here to report what reliable sources have reported. What do they say? Well,

• Many/most sources say 1913, and Albanese herself seemed to confirm this by not denying it; most particularly, by not denying it when she was widely congratulated on turning 100 in 2013
• Her immigration papers, signed by her, say unequivocally she was born in 1909.

What to make of this? Do we weigh the evidence and make a decision one way or the other? Answer; NO. Given that she's been around for so long (I, for one, have been listening to her Toscanini La boheme since 1970), and 1913 has been shown most everywhere all that time, we cannot now pretend that such a date never existed or that millions of admirers were never aware of it. We have to acknowledge what was on the public record. But equally, we cannot just ignore the immigration evidence.

I think we have to say she was born "22 July 1909 or 1913" and add a footnote explaining the conflicting evidence and letting readers come to their own conclusions. Because Wikipedia is not in the business of coming to its own conclusions in cases of this nature. Newspapers will pick and choose, but that's not our role. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:42, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Unless a citation (which passes WP:RS) can be provided which states that she was born in 1909 then 1913 must stand. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 05:24, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Why do you consider a legal document such as an immigration form not to be a reliable source? It's well known that performers often over- or under-state their age for the public, but usually stick to the truth when it comes to legal matters. Eileen Joyce is another who put out not just a fictitious year of birth but also a completely made up date of birth (21 November, rather than 1 January). She also thanked everyone for helping her celebrate her 75th birthday, although she was in fact approaching 80 (see footnote 5). -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 06:07, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

So, if you claim that she was in fact born in 1913, why do you use a source which clearly states date of birth as being 1907 and entry to the USA to be 1913? If the subject herself perpetuated the "myth" of being considerably younger, merely by quoting her entry date as her birthdate, for vanity reasons (because, let's face it, many people would wish to be thought of as younger than their years), then of course "many sources" (of which none have been linked to in this conversation to back up that state of affairs) are going to quote her on that. Her past manipulation of the media from which you quote references makes you look very gullible here. I provide an obituary music service on the social networking site 'This Is My Jam', giving a short biographical account of deceased music people's lives alongside a piece of music typical of their output, and I shall certainly be giving her birthdate as April 12th 1907, because I suspect this is the truth, and not what she herself would wish to foist on us, though may she rest in peace forever, bless her. P.S. Change the source, for goodness' sake! 86.112.58.46 (talk) 06:31, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

I agree that, considering the circumstances, the course of action proposed by JackofOz is the most helpful. As for the veracity of 1913 vs 1909: that petition is slightly odd in that on 26 September 1941 Albanese states that she is 35 years old when her stated date of birth, 22 July 1909, suggests an age of 32 years, 2 months and 4 days. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:51, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

La Gazzetta del Mezzogiorno mentions her year of birth as 1909 in their obituary: "Addio a Licia Albanese grande soprano del ‘900", citing L'enciclopedia dell'Utet. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:58, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree with JackOfOz and Mr. Bednarek as to how this issue should be handled. Despite all the evidence contemplated here, inconsistencies abound. Perhaps Ms Albanese herself would appreciate this added layer of posthumous intrigue. On her date of death all sources can agree, and for those of us who came to appreciate her at any point in our lives, it's the date that matters most. This unseasoned Wikipedian appreciates everyone's thoughtful responses to my concerns. Mdleonar (talk) 16:23, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Licia Albanese/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

The article is compprehensive, thorough, a little unbalanced towards too much positive regard. Orbicle 16:50, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 16:50, 19 November 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 21:59, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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