Talk:Les Six

Comment

A very well written page - a model to most of us! User:David Martland

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Isn't it more of a famous painting than a famous photo? User:Aezram

Indeed it is - I've changed the wording. Does anybody know who the painting is by? It would be good to add that info. --Camembert

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Well written - a model to most of us? My God, don't tell Zoe, she helped get the writer banned because she didn't like how he did his pages! 64.228.30.74 04:37 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Not liking how somebody "does" "their" pages is not a reason to be banned, and it wasn't the reason in this case. This user was banned for a number of reasons, not least among them his extremely aggressive attitude which led to him calling all sorts of people all sorts of names. He's still banned, incidentally. --Camembert

He's the same guy that User:Ortolan88 also said created a model page for his List of Famous Canadians. But, I read where he called someone a moron. Unacceptable, there is no one at Wikipedia who ever demonstrated that kind of intellect. Sure is a good thing you got rid of that abuser before he screwed things up and made more "model pages." 64.228.30.30 03:46 11 Jun 2003 (UTC)

After seeing Talk:Francis_Poulenc, I'm just glad I never had the displeasure of having a dispute with him. --Sketchee 04:43, Dec 19, 2004 (UTC)

Painting

The information for the painting is as follows:

1. Le Groupe des Six, 1922 by Jacques-Emile Blanche. In the center, pianist Marcelle Meyer; from bottom to top: Germaine Tailleferre, Darius Milhaud, Arthur Honegger, Jean Wiener; on the right: Georges Auric, Francis Poulenc, Jean Cocteau. Here Jean Wiener, pianist, replaces Louis Durey who left the group in 1921. (--65.25.248.41 26 Jan 2004 22:18)

The caption should be clarified, preferably by simply listing the people in clockwise order or such. I assume the intended meaning of the current listing is "In the center, pianist Marcelle Meyer; on the left, from bottom to top: Germaine Tailleferre, Darius Milhaud, Arthur Honegger, Jean Wiener; on the right, from bottom to top: Georges Auric, Francis Poulenc, Jean Cocteau", and Wikipedia's photos of Tailleferre and Cocteau would seem to confirm that. But I'll leave it to someone who's certain about the information to do the rewording. (By the way, there's a somewhat better photo of the painting here. IANAL by any stretch of the imagination, but if I remember correctly, simple photographs of expired-copyright paintings are exempt from copyright protection (though, I guess that might vary from country to country).) --164.76.162.246 7 July 2005 02:34 (UTC)

The person in the painting who is supposedly Jean Wiener doesn't look at all like Wiener. But he DOES look like every picture of Louis Durey that I've ever seen. Have a look at google: http://images.google.fr/images?svnum=10&hl=fr&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=Louis+Durey&btnG=Rechercher

I talked to Tailleferre's Granddaughter and heir and she says that Tailleferre said that all Six were in there for the painting. So, that must be Durey....what would Wiener be doing there in the first place?

Durey did not leave the group in 1922 either. He was at every one of the anniversary concerts beginning with the tenth anniversary in 1930. Musikfabrik 17:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Source?

Information describing Les Six is taken directly from the liner notes for Graham Johnson and Francois Le Roux's Hyperion CD: Songs by Louis Durey. Who, exactly, is plagiarizing whom? (--65.25.248.41 26 Jan 2004 22:18)

You mean the content of this article is a direct copy of those liner notes? Is it the entire article that has been copied, or just a portion? If I'm understanding you correctly, then whatever has been copied certainly needs to be taken out of this article - that CD came out before this article was started (at least according to [1], the CD came out in May 2002; our article was started November of that year), so there's no doubt that it has been copied from there, I'm afraid. --Camembert

Le boeuf sur le toit

Regarding Le boeuf sur le toit: I thought the composition was named after the bar and not the other way around? Could somebody confirm this? --Francis Schonken 10:36, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The composition was named for the Bar. The initial name of the bar was "La Gaya" and then when the owner moved to larger quarters, Cocteau suggested the name. He then suggested to the choreographer Ida Rubenstein that she comission a ballet from Milhaud about the Bar....think of it as cultural advertizing.

Edits

I've deleted "individual compositions not related to Les Six" by Satie, since this is the Les Six Page.

Concerning the Emile Blanche painting, I'm surprized that this is a public domaine image. The original painting is in the Museum of Rouen and Emile Blanche's work is still protected. Can anyone confirm the public domaine status of this image?

I've also added more information about the orgins of Les Six, most of which is taken from a book published by Marie-Thérèse Clostre-Collet about her father, which contains the entire text of the two articles written by Collet, the letters written by all the members of the Group (including Poulenc's famous Dedication to Collet on a copy of his "Bestiaire" which states "To the Man who came up with 'Les Six'". I'll be adding other information as I have time, as well as other information from sources relating to Germaine Tailleferre. Musikfabrik 17:09, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Caption

I have recaptioned the painting, in accordance with the above, and my memory of photos (ahem) - Rothorpe 23:24, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Section "Music by 'Les six'"

Apart from the two collaborative works, why is it that some other single-composer works are included, but the many other works written by the same composers throughout their careers are excluded? What's the criterion for this short list of works? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 21:31, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't know. That section is misleading on a lot of levels. I vote the following:

• That it be renamed "Selected ...".
• That only compositions that have Wikipedia articles be listed.
• That it be more representational and inclusive.
• That if not all of the above, the section be deleted.

By the way, there was just recently a week-long series on Les Six on the radio show Exploring Music. Here is the playlist they used: [2]. -- Softlavender (talk) 02:20, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Ok, the heading is now "Selected music by individual members of Les Six". But I still struggle to understand why it's here at all. Whatever works we choose to list here, they will all be pieces written by individual members of the group as composers in their own right, and not wearing their "Les Six" hats. I am very disposed to deleting it. The only works that can truly be said to have been written by Les Six - and even then it's subject to certain qualifications - are those collaborative works in which more than one member collaborated (whether with composers from outside the group or not). -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 05:55, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't see the point of randomly choosing some of their individual works to list, UNLESS each one listed has a Wikipedia article. That would actually be a bit helpful -- the reader could get an idea of what styles perhaps unified the group [for instance even reading the title of Le boeuf sur le toit gives immediate indication of stylistic bent], and the Wikilinks would allow them to explore further. But a list of mostly unlinked random works from the various members isn't that helpful. An alternative to deleting the list could be to list at least one notable Wikilinked work by each member. Note that Les Six remained Les Six whether they were collaborating or not, and they did have a common bond of being a reaction against impressionism, Ravel, and Debussy (and they had some other common bonds). (Again, the playlist from the radio program may be instructional.) Softlavender (talk) 21:50, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Capitalization on the French site gives good enough reason to move. UtherSRG (talk) 13:55, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

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Les six → Les Six – This is the correct capitalization, in French [3] (and also in English [4] [5]). Softlavender (talk) 02:42, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

• Support -- This is clearly a proper name. Peterkingiron (talk) 13:49, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
• Comment - Since it is not an expression in the English language, there is no "correct" English version. If we called them "The Six" (cf. The Five), that would be something different - but we don't. The issue is solely about the French capitalisation. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:14, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Selected music by individual members of Les Six"

A quick glance suggests that most of the article is very good. Only the section "Selected music by individual members of Les Six" has not been updated for some years, and quite frankly it seems to be an arbitrary collection of works individual editors happen to like, whether they're representative of Les Six or not. Bear in mind that Poulenc for one insisted that 15 years after the group was named (in 1920) individual members were "pursuing our own paths" and were by then only united by "ties of affection". Works such as Poulenc's Cello Sonata and his Flute Sonata, composed respectively in the 1940s and 1950s, are far from representative of the group's aesthetics (as far as they can be identified). I am replacing these with more apt works, but no doubt some of the works representing other composers of the group should be reconsidered. Alfietucker (talk) 09:29, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

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