Talk:Ledger art

Is the Swiss artist Karl Bodmer's facsimile drawing necessary?

I've started to develop this article, and am wondering if the facsimile drawing is necessary to include. To my mind, it is not given the many examples out there of actual original ledger book drawings. I did a quick search to see if there was something particularly significant about the one included in the article and while Bodmer created many images of Native Americans, this seems to be the only ledger book facsimile he made. It makes sense to be on this page: Mato-tope, and possibly also on Bodmer's page, but I am perplexed as to why it is here. Does anyone object to my removing it from this article? Netherzone (talk) 18:38, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Citation from hard copy book, A Pictographic History of the Oglala Sioux

Hi @Pokechu22: I see that you tagged a citation I added for "failed verification". The book in question is: Blish, Helen H.; Sandoz, Mari (1967). A Pictographic History of the Oglala Sioux. Drawings by Amos Bad Heart Bull. Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press. LCCN 66-13404. OCLC 587180. While you may not be able to verify via online resources, I happen to own a hard copy of the book in my private library (and a beautiful slipcased copy, lucky me!) If you are skeptical, I can post an image holding the actual print book itself in my hands. I will be untagging the "failed verification" tag, but wanted to reach out in advance to let you know I will be doing so. Please do let me know if you want visible verifiable proof that I own the book itself. Best wishes, The Netherzone (talk) 22:24, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi Netherzone, the specific thing I failed to verify was that the book used the phrase "ledger art". I was able to find and verify the existence of the book online (and that it seems to be relevant); it just doesn't seem to specifically support the specific statement that "Ledger art is a term for Plains Indian narrative drawing or painting on paper or cloth". (See Template:Failed verification#When to use). The book does seem to be a perfectly appropriate source for other things, and I'd be fine with the citation being moved to a different place (ideally with a page number), or to the further reading section. The plainsledgerart.org reference seems be enough to confirm the term (which I didn't see before), but based on my understanding of MOS:LEADCITE there probably doesn't need to be a citation at all. Hopefully that clarifies things; note that I know nothing about ledger art itself (I've just been doing a search through articles where LCCNs were tagged in a way other than the lccn parameter on {{cite book}}). --Pokechu22 (talk) 22:22, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

@Pokechu22: I will be deleting this file soon, just wanted to prove that I own the book. The term Ledger art is used throughout the 509 page book, however because it does not have an index (only appendices and bibliography, I cannot give you all the many page numbers where the information occurs. Here is an image, showing that the artists who made Ledger art are called artists and what they produce is called ledger art by historians for decades. There are MANY books on ledger art, which was produced on the pages of old ledger books traded with native people or on trade cloth. Netherzone (talk) 22:51, 18 October 2020 (UTC) deleting image Netherzone (talk) 00:46, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Source

From Hyperallergic: Why Is an Auction House Selling Works by Imprisoned Native Artists? [1] Netherzone (talk) 06:27, 26 October 2022 (UTC)