Talk:Kratos (God of War)

Suggest: revamp history

I know it seems to make sense to break apart Kratos' story by his game appearances, but this basically makes these a repeat of the plot summaries already in the separate game articles. I would pick up the high points of his life and summarize those, referring back to game articles as needed, and make sure the article focuses more on Kratos as the lead character of the series and the influence of that. --MASEM 02:36, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that would make the text bigger, inadvertently pushing the article to a more in-universe perspective. Right now I am following Master Chief (Halo) and Cortana, only including the key plot points in the summaries. But there are some events that may need to be included if we summarize all of the "highlights" of his life, particulary the fact that he killed several mythologic figures that only serve as bosses but hold no particular importance to the plot, like a Argonaut and several Greek heroes. - Caribbean~H.Q.

Bigger Pic

I think the article looks better when the pic is bigger. King Rock ^{Go 'Skins!} 12:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Pictures used in infoboxes should only be about 250-256px; remember that the user can click on the image to see it full size, and pictures are not just decoration, but need to be a critical component of the article. --MASEM 14:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Certainly, 550px is way too big, outside of the MoS issues noted by Masem there is also the fact that an image that big breaks the flow of the lead and the entire article's format, particulary in lower resolutions. - Caribbean~H.Q. 15:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Bold 202.165.84.64 (talk) 14:45, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

GAN

All the references seem from reliable sources, the pictures are properly sourced and have fair use rationales, and there is a good amount of out of universe info; you've kept the appearances down to a paragraph each, although maybe these could be shortened a little. The issue is mostly that the grammar and flow is pretty poor throughout. When I have time, I'll try and give it a thorough copyedit. Other than that, good job so far. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 22:44, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, could you find a full-body shot of Kratos which meshes better with the infobox? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 00:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I looked for one, but the official sites use flash and most of the ones found on reliable sources have watermarks on them (IGN) or complete bodyshots are just missing (GameSpot). I will search in more detail but am not sure where to begin. - Caribbean~H.Q. 00:30, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Having browsed the web for a while I think the best full-body image is this, found on the artist's webpage, what do you think? - Caribbean~H.Q. 00:59, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Eh, I dunno. You can always screencapture the image and then create a png in an image editor for the flash sites. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 01:02, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

That could take a few days, this computer doesn't have any image editing programs and I don't want to know what my girlfriend would say if I told her that I'm going to install a program in her PC to take screencaps of a semi-naked man :-) Anyway, that could be done in mine but it won't be posible until Friday. - Caribbean~H.Q. 01:12, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, it's no big deal if you can't do it. I just like pics which blend in with the infobox, like Cortana, but that's personal preference and not at all needed for the article to pass :) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 01:31, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Check Jeux France, which generally puts out screenshots w/o logobugs. this one of Kratos may work. --MASEM 01:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I still like Charlie Wen's image due to the clarity in the detail, it shows the complexion of his body while providing a good mugshot. However of the images found during my search my personal favorite is Mog of War. :-) - Caribbean~H.Q. 04:10, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Ooops, sorry Carib, I totally forgot I was reviewing this... anyway, continuing:

• The quotes in the lead need citations.
• "traditional Greek armors" is it armor or armors?

Like I said previously, it just needs a light copyedit which hopefully I will remember to do within the next day. Sorry to keep you waiting, --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 21:53, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

No problem, I have been quite busy myself. I placed the footnotes in the lead, now the creative team designed several armors for the character so I think it should be "armors". - Caribbean~H.Q. 01:08, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, getting around to pass this, Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 14:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, now onwards to Olympus. - Caribbean~H.Q. 16:35, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Series article

It really seems that this would better serve as a series article rather than a character article. Just change the lead, add a gameplay section, and mix in some general creation and reception information, and you have a pretty good article. As I imagine a series article is inevitable, it seems like it would be best to kill two birds with one stone by creating it and allowing it to become featured pretty easily. TTN (talk) 22:57, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

The point of view in the "Appearances" is not going to work with a series article. A article on the series as a whole could easily be a lot more detailed than this, both of the PS2 games have tons of out of universe material available, I was thinking about developing a article that covers the scope of the series by this summer, but its the final product is going to be more broad and less focused on the lead character than this one. - Caribbean~H.Q. 23:11, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I meant to add covert the attributes section to an overall settings section and rework the tone in my suggestions. Anyways, the final product of that is going to be pretty similar to this one overall. Taking the four unique creation and reception paragraphs and working them into the article, which is going to end up sharing the whole "Role in the God of War series" section (though one will be more general) and much of the attributes section to form one very good FA seems preferable to having two GAs. TTN (talk) 23:23, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree to some extent here with TTN. Right now there is no GOW series article, but knowing from trying to source the first game that development information is not going to be easy to find fully, and the fact that Kratos is effectively the game for the most part. However, I think this is something to keep in the back of our minds if/when we develop the series article. Maybe that will be large enough that keeping Kratos separate is fine in the long run. There is no need to rush off and create a series article while this one is under GA review. --MASEM 23:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

That's assuming this article couldn't pass WP:FAC, which I very much think it could. Notability has been established, there's no need for a merge. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 23:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

The creation part is what has more potential here, there are so many details available to build one three to four times bigger than this one without going into detail about Kratos, the voice cast of GoW II has some nice potential, lots of detail and reception by the voice artists. Personally I think that a series article could make it easier to FA if the prose is worked correctly, if we avoid focusing on Kratos both of the articles would complement each other. - Caribbean~H.Q. 23:38, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

It should probably be noted that only the design stage of development can easily provide a lot of material, from the technical issues (the Centaur's model had to be changed due to texture issues) to the somewhat trivial ones (prior to the design of Kratos a giant in a diaper was used as a placeholder hero, this is not mentioned here because it isn't Kratos) to the just plain bizarre ones (the game director wanted to give nipples to all female monsters and a penis to the cyclops because he felt that was "animalistic"). Now we can add to that the countless variations in the character (non-Kratos) models, the ammount of elements discarded due to time limits (including levels and the Icarus wings in GoW), heck we even have enough to produce a subsection only dealing with the designs of Ares (his design varried depending on how "elemental" he could be) and Zeus. Then we have the GoW II bonus disk wich basically covers all of the game's development and testing. - Caribbean~H.Q. 00:04, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget that a lot of that belongs in the game articles rather than the series article. While would certainly mention that there were placeholder characters during development, stuff chopped off, and other things briefly, most of those details would be better placed in GOW1 instead. Stuff like the general development of the series, rather than the specific game details, is what the focus of the series article would be placed on. Only things that transcend two or more games would be worthy of detailed mentions (i.e the Icarus wings being developed for one, but utilized in two).

My main worry is that it'll just look really redundant to have two similar sections summarizing the games between the two. Even if they have different focuses, it'll look rather weird. A good possible way of organizing would to just have separate sections for Kratos, Zeus, Athena (Does she have any real info?), Ares, and general other characters under the setting section. I think it could have the potential to look pretty nice. TTN (talk) 00:16, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I can't recall any development information about Athena, on the other hand Zeus has quite a lot of it. - Caribbean~H.Q. 02:19, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Changes in Kratos in God of War 1 & God of War 2

Should a section be added for the changes that happen to Kratos? I mean, in God of War 1 he didnt have any gauntlet things under the chains and the shin guards and his loincloth is torn and a mess. Also in God of War 2 he has this belt thing. The tattos is the biggest change i think, in God of War 2 its spiral round his arm while in one its less and theres a tattoo next to his bicep —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marhoon 25 (talk • contribs) 14:03, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

good 223.24.186.176 (talk) 07:45, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Kratos image in infobox

Okay, I have uploaded an image of Kratos from God of War III a few days ago. However, the previous image is still showing in the infobox. If you click on the image in the infobox, you'll see the new image, but it's not appearing on the main page. Is this happening on anyone else's screen? JDC808 (talk) 22:46, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I uploaded a new file for the image so no need for an answer now. JDC808 (talk) 12:54, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion for improvement

The link to the Gods of Greece and Norse gods do not show Kratos among them. The reason is he is a fictional character! So, HE DID NOT KILL ARES.

Note I thought Wikipedia was focused on true statements. This article needs to DELETE the claims to history and state it's just a made-up fiction, not Historic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.198.97.108 (talk) 12:17, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

I would suggest that it may be better to write the entire "Role in GOW" section as a single block of text agnostic to the specific games. That's not to say that that when events occur relative to the games can't be noted ("At the start of God of War II, Kratos is attacked and drained of his powers by Zeus...") but having a section for each seems to not be a great idea. This would help a lot with the fact of how GOW3's finale connects the rest of the elements. --MASEM (t) 20:30, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I was actually thinking about something like that and do like a back history kind of thing detailing his past a little bit. Just haven't really had the time recently. When I get some time, I can start working on that, or someone else can if they'd like. JDC808 (talk) 16:38, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Finally got the time to do this. I pretty much did a copy-and-paste from the God of War Wiki and reworded some areas. It probably needs trimmed down some, but I'll let someone else do that. JDC808 (talk) 17:02, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

That's possible even worse. I mean, the ordering is better and the like, but its way to focused on individual events of each game (we're dup'ing the plot for each game, effectively) I've tried to stab at it at a few times but haven't come out with anything great, but there is definitely a lot that can be cut down. --MASEM (t) 18:05, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

So trimming has been done, but not sure if it's enough. What do you think? JDC808 (talk) 16:50, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

The format in revision is not GA worthy. That entire "fictional biography" section looks like a Wikia article, not a Wikipedia "Good Article". In that revision, all of the sourced content is replaced by a shapeless blob of text and allof the references are completly removed; not a good presentation for a promoted article. Now, I once again bring Master Chief (Halo) into the mix; that has been a durable FA and its format is copied here. Obviously the GOW III section is still huge, that's because it is still a draft, nothing more than a copy of the plot. Once that is trimmed it will be around the same size as the others (as well as sourced). Just take it easy and allow me some time to work with it. - Caribbean~H.Q. 05:23, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

If the shorted version is Wikia article-quality, the GA version is worse save for sourcing - but even then, sourcing is not required for primary plot sections. I would argue that today (not when the Master Chief article was passed as FA in 07), such attention to the specific details and involvement per game for the primary character is unnecessary duplication of the plot of the individual games. We do need to describe enough about what he does through the series to set his role, but we should be looking at "Appearances / God of War series" as one section, and other appearances (like in Hot Shots Golf or LBP) as a second minor section. And yes, I'm saying that the MC article is probably one that can be revised in this section. --MASEM (t) 05:53, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Masem. A lot of work was involved in pulling out the relevant information and forming into a cohesive narrative that talks about the character and his history in general terms, as opposed to a huge block of subjective and often irrelevant detail. We need to look at the overall picture, as opposed to cramming anything and everything in. I will break down the edits. Spartancourage (talk) 07:14, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, I've broken down the edits and briefly explained why things had to be changed. A major edit that has been retained and goes to Masem's point is the the newly named History section covers the events of the games nicely and as such does not need to be repeated (certainly not in micro-detail: there is never any need for a blow by blow, frame by frame narrative).

The other changes are fairly straighforward and again go to discussing the overall view of the character without unnecessary detail or speculation. That said, I'm happy to listen to suggestions if a case can be made. Regards. Spartancourage (talk) 07:57, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

This is pointless, I am applying the precedent and standard set by WP:VG. We move this discussion there tommorow. - Caribbean~H.Q. 08:10, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, your blind revert was pointless and as such the article has been reverted. You need to first acknowledge the amount of sheer repetition in your preferred version, the poor grammar and spelling mistakes (eg. "A long fight ensues, in which Hercules' legionaries are killed and he losses his weapon"), unnecessary focus on micro details (eg. the Blades), retaining speculation, ignoring the nav box and so on. Think about what was stated in the edit summaries and consider the overall picture. Then discuss here. Thank you.

Spartancourage (talk) 03:32, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I would also suggest checking here [1] as the consensus is moving towards "less is more". Spartancourage (talk) 03:53, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I would also encourage Caribbean~H.Q. to visit here and address the points raised re: his preferred version (gross repetition, colloquial, spelling/grammar errors, unnecessary micro-detail etc)

Spartancourage (talk) 02:50, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Sure, "less is more". As long as it doesn't ignore even the most basic MOS standards such as WP:LEAD. I sense a GAR coming fast if this revision stands for long, not that I care any longer. - Caribbean~H.Q. 06:01, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The standards obviously require review. None of the points I mentioned - which you have yet to acknowledge - are acceptable. Surely you can see that. Do you require more examples? Spartancourage (talk) 06:05, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Well sorry, we should play by the "standard", everyone in the project does. A mini-lead like that is clearly against the MOS; no article boasting anything like that will survive as a GA for long. If you find an adequate lead "repetitive", maybe you should try to change the "standard (rules)". - Caribbean~H.Q. 06:19, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

That is why the issue is being discussed. Can you at least see the flaws in the version you support? Spartancourage (talk) 02:34, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Power of Hope

I don't believe the section speaking of the events of the end of God of War 3 to be correct. It states that Athena realized he had taken the power when he originally fought Zues however the box was not opened when he fought Zues (God of War 2). However he had originally opened the box at the end of God of War, which is when he obtained the power of hope. I am going to make the change of the statement "when he battled Zeus" to read "when he battled Ares". If I am mistaken please revert the change and explain the validity of the original statement please. Thanks --  Grimbear13 ►Talk  14:01, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Norm Scott reference

I don't think that it matters that his words have emotion in them. Just because he calls him retarded doesn't mean anything; the basic message of Kratos being a "lummox" is made by this, and we can't use any word other than "retard" for this. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:03, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

The ref. is there, just without the rant that does go off topic to other characters. Keep to a minimum and just tell readers what is the core message 125.7.71.6 (talk) 06:06, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

The text makes no sense when you remove the reason why he is more avatar than a character. And the discussion of his tragic story is removed, because his words happen to be more extreme than others'. It's still a legitimate point. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:23, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Scott himself doesn't make a lot of sense in that article. I've tweked to convey the spirit of what he is saying. 125.7.71.6 (talk) 06:39, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how he doesn't make sense. His first point is that he was average, having no real personality to make his tragic story impact anyone; his second point is that his lack of character basically makes his character effectively nonexistent. His averageness does not explain his lack of character. Why does he lack character? The text taken from the article tells the reader nothing, and needlessly forces readers to delve deeper for explanation for what the text means. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:46, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Categories: where are they?

What happened to the categories? --Greatrobo76 (talk) 23:47, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

??? JDC808 (talk) 17:05, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request

{{Edit semi-protected}} Recent revisions between unregistered IPs. It would be best to semi-protect the page to stop potential edit warring. JDC808 (talk) 18:15, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Not done: {{edit semi-protected}} is not required for edits to semi-protected, unprotected pages, or pending changes protected pages. Please see WP:RFPP to request such protection. Thank you.   — Jeff G.  ツ 19:12, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

MK info. about Kratos

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=281933 It states some pretty clear info. about Kratos and the developers' thoughts on the development in the game. Sincerely Subzerosmokerain (talk) 01:13, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

English translation

Disclaimer: My ancient Greek abilities are not that good.

The Greek word "κράτος" seems to come from the word "κραταιός" which is translated to "dominant" (as in dominate), the one that rules. For example, Democracy comes from the greek word "Δημοκρατία" which is a combination of "Δήμος" and "κρατία". Δήμος describes the people that are considered as citizens and "Δημοκρατία" describes a situation/case where those people are in control.

As such, the word "power" is somehow correct but it is mostly misleading. The greek word for "power" (as in "this is a powerfull spell") is "δύναμη" (similar to strength). Power may also be used in cases like "power is restored" where the greek word is "ενέργεια" (energy).

The word "strength" is totally wrong as a translation of "κράτος".

In modern greek, "Κρατος" also means "government" / "nation". In fact it is a word that AFAIK has no direct translation to English. It is something between a nation and a government. "Κρατος" describes the government as an entity excluding the people that constitute it. (The translation of "government" is "κυβέρνηση" which describes the people that govern). The translation of "nation" is "έθνος" and describes the all the people. "Κράτος" for example describe all the civil services, the parliament (as an entity), etc.

--Sharhalakis (talk) 18:58, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

No problem. If in doubt, out. It isn't really necessary. Thebladesofchaos (talk) 01:15, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Kratos-themed Internet

I can imagine there is Kratos-themed artwork, fast food, etc. But what is meant by "The character is also associated with products including /---/ the internet /---/"? Is Internet really just about Kratos? --Oop (talk) 20:49, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the late response, but I believe "internet" is referring to the "Path to Olympus" episodes that are only available on the official God of War website. JDC808 (talk) 07:17, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Bonus costumes removed from PS Store

The source is the PlayStation Store (via PS3) under God of War III. I believe it was also mentioned in a PS.Blog post a year or so ago.

I know that two were removed because I saw them added to the Store when the God of War Collection was added, but I didn't have enough funds in my wallet at the time to get the one costume I was missing, which is the Forgotten Warrior (I have the others; Phantom of Chaos, Apollo, Morpheus, Dominus, and even the Ghost of Sparta pre-order exclusive Deimos). When I finally got a PSN card to add to my wallet, I went to the God of War III section and both the Forgotten Warrior and Phantom of Chaos had been removed and have yet to return (just checked a few minutes ago). The only three costumes on the Store are the Apollo, Morpheus, and Dominus. JDC808 (talk) 07:14, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. I certainly believe you, but unfortunately without a source it falls under the banner of original research.

Bluerim (talk) 09:31, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

You believe me but you revert it because of "original research"? If you really want a source for something anyone with a PS3 can verify, I will try to find that blog post. JDC808 (talk) 03:23, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

You know what, that's just silly

There are people who are obsessively categorizing redirects (even the redirects of the most characters). I know people for whom it's the most / all they're doing in Wikipedia. I barely convinced them to not clog the video game related categories with redirects... by pleaseding and arguing a lot.

And now what, the people who think regular categories do not deserve to be properly categorized?

So what's so different about Kratos and the Iliad characters, or Sophitia, or Xena, that he's supposedly the only one who does not deserve to be in "Fictional Greek people"? Where exactly are the revelant rules/guidelines according to which you believe you act?

And do you also do this with other articles? --Niemti (talk) 09:01, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I feel if the category fits the character (or whatever the article is about), add it. Fictional Greek People obviously fits Kratos. I don't see why Bluerim keeps removing them (btw Bluerim, Albinos is not eligible). JDC808 (talk) 06:32, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

A few more sources that you might use for Reception

• http://uk.games.ign.com/articles/121/1219982p3.html
• http://uk.stars.ign.com/articles/920/920287p11.html
• http://uk.stars.ign.com/articles/965/965382p2.html
• http://uk.stars.ign.com/articles/976/976353p3.html
• http://www.gamefront.com/for-fathers-day-5-video-game-characters-with-the-biggest-daddy-issues
• http://www.gamespot.com/greatest-video-game-hero/standings/index.html
• http://www.ugo.com/games/dairy-bastard-kratos
• http://www.ugo.com/games/paging-uwe-boll-video-game-characters-who-need-their-own-movies
• http://www.ugo.com/games/playstation-fighting-game-characters

I didn't include this source because Kratos will in fact be in the PlayStation fighting game, and I didn't find this source necessary for that reason as it was basically a wish list of characters they want in the game.

• http://www.complex.com/video-games/2012/03/the-10-best-fighting-game-cameos#11

Some of this is also negative reception (like in IGN's list of the most overrated characters). --Niemti (talk) 08:55, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Just noticed this. I'll take a look. JDC808 (talk) 06:26, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

I incorporated all of the sources there except one, which I left a note under. I tried organizing the section the best I could by year of the sources, or by what the sources were saying. If there's anymore reorganizing or something else you think should be done, go for it. JDC808 (talk) 08:40, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Generally good, but there's no need to repeat the same Wikipedia internal links repeatedly in the same article, and especially the same section. Also, the important awards should be grouped in a one paragraph. --Niemti (talk) 09:52, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Also I moved it around and rewrote a bit for a better flow. There's still a lot of other reception still, and I could give you more if you want, but that's only optional. --Niemti (talk) 10:09, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Of note, Kratos (mythology) should be better used in the article thank in "see also" section where I put it (preferrably also in the lead). --Niemti (talk) 10:12, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Looks good. Made a couple edits/tweaks. Biggest was lead which was as per WP:LEAD and WP:VG/GL. As for more sources for reception, I think it's pretty good right now. If the A-Class assessment asks for more, then we can add more. JDC808 (talk) 14:14, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

A-class assessment

Seeking assessment for nomination for A-Class. JDC808 (talk) 06:40, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

• Upon review of the article, despite the fact that GAN was ~4 years ago, I see no apparent flaws that would hold back an A-Class assessement. I Support A-Class. :) Salvidrim! 16:31, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

The character's reception is a bit outdated, but that's a rather minor problem that JDC808 himself plans to fix (I can help). --Niemti (talk) 05:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

If you wanna go ahead and start updating it, go for it. JDC808 (talk) 05:45, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Went ahead and took care of it, unless you have a disagreement over what I did. Also, see post in section above. JDC808 (talk) 08:26, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Almost forgot to say thank you to Salvidrim for his support. Thank You. :] JDC808 (talk) 08:41, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

• Hold - multiple images have huge sizes (they should be shrunk) and the rationales for those images are rather poor. Aside from the image issues I don't see any other problems. Barring them being replaced with smaller versions and their rationales beefed up (particularly in the reason they're included in the article) I will support. --Teancum (talk) 04:52, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay, were all four images needing reduced, or just the two with the "reduce file" tag? JDC808 (talk) 07:00, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Kratos God of War III.jpg (needs a big reduce), and Kratos God of War concept art.jpg (could use about a 30% reduce to roughly 400px wide as not that much detail is needed). There are also a set of stray closing brackets "]]" by that image. --Teancum (talk) 12:49, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I've reduced Kratos God of War III.jpg down to 316x600 (which it was previously 540x1025). Should it be reduced further? I've also reduced Kratos God of War concept art.jpg to 480x350 (which it was previously 640x467). Should it also be reduced more? I've also reduced DeimosCostume.jpg and Young Kratos and Deimos GoS.jpg. P.S. I'm not seeing the set of stray closing brackets by the "concept art" image. JDC808 (talk) 17:58, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

The "In video games" is written in a in-universe way as a biography. It should be revised to follow his appearances in out of universe way in this order:

1. God of War
2. God of War II
3. Betrayal
4. Chains of Olympus
5. God of War III
6. Ghost of Sparta
7. Ascension

See Lara Croft or Cloud Strife as examples. For example Cloud's appearances start with his first game while other games focus on his background. Also, Kratos' article has several paragraphs from in video games unsourced.Tintor2 (talk) 14:51, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

My disagreement with that order is that it would essentially look like a series article. This issue has been discussed above and the consensus was to go with the format for the "In video games" section. I'm not saying there aren't issues with it. We can change the paragraphs to be more out-of-universe, but I don't see why they would have to be in game release order. JDC808 (talk) 17:14, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Move the film stuff to God of War (series)

There's nothing relevant to the character here. --Niemti (talk) 06:26, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Forgot to post it:

A film adaptation of the original God of War was announced in 2005. Creator David Jaffe confirmed that a completed script had been written by David Self and would be sent to an unspecified "huge-name director". Jaffe also confirmed that Universal Studios is behind the making of the God of War movie but was unaware of its current status, and eventually stated that "it's doubtful that the film will even be made." In 2010, Jaffe stated that the "script went out a year and a half ago to Daniel Craig who plays Bond, but he turned it down." He also advised that another actor had since been signed to the role. In July 2012, it was reported that the Pacific Rim writers, Patrick Melton and Marcus Dunstan, have been hired to adapt the God of War film.

--Niemti (talk) 06:30, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Film mention is already at that page. It does have relevance to the character, as for one, it will involve the character, and two, there's two points about the character in the section. JDC808 (talk) 06:37, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

No, there's nothing about the character at all, not even a confirmation that Kratos was featured in any script. It's just the info about a film that has been announced 7 years ago, and might be even made in the 7 next years from now (maybe). But the comic paragraph contains Kratos-related info (plot). --Niemti (talk) 06:57, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

It makes mention of Daniel Craig turning down the script. The second is the next sentence stating an actor has signed to the role. David Jaffe specifically said Kratos during the Game Directors Live. JDC808 (talk) 07:03, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

OK then. As of now, what you can write about it is that Craig was once proposed the role of Kratos in the film that remains in development hell since 2005, but he turned it down (like Kasumi (Dead or Alive)#In film also disusses the casting issues, for example). But the rest is just unrelated to the subject of the article, which is a character. --Niemti (talk) 07:16, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay, that's fine. JDC808 (talk) 07:19, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Similiarily, novelizations add nothing to this article:

An official novelization of the original God of War (also titled God of War) was written by Matthew Stover and Robert E. Vardeman and was released on May 25, 2010 by Del Ray Books. God of War II is the second novelization in the series and is the official novelization of the game of the same name. It is being written by Robert E. Vardeman and is expected to be released on February 5, 2013 also by Del Rey Books.

They would only if it was explained how Kratos in the novelizations differs from his portrayal in the source material (video games). --Niemti (talk) 13:48, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

How to make the novels relevant for the character articles? Well, some thing like that:

"The Master Chief's backstory is never explained in the games. A prequel of Halo: Combat Evolved, the 2001 novel The Fall of Reach, reveals much of the character's history and was released as a companion to the game. The Master Chief, originally named John, was born in 2511 and first lived with his family on the human colony planet Eridanus II. Large for his six years of age, and approximately a foot above his school peers, he is described as a typical boy with brown hair, freckles and a gap between his two front teeth. In 2517, John and dozens of children his age are covertly taken from their homes and replaced with clones to hide the kidnapping. The original children are brought to the planet Reach, one of the UNSC's bastions, to begin intense physical and psychological training to become "Spartan-II" supersoldiers. They are assigned new identification numbers instead of last names; John becomes known as John-117. Approximately eight years later, John and the other children are biologically and cybernetically augmented and enhanced. These procedures have substantial risks; only John and thirty-two other Spartans survive.

After the Spartans' first successful operation, John-117 is briefed on the threat posed by the Covenant, a theocratic alliance of alien races, and witnesses the utter devastation wrought by a single ship. In 2552, the Chief and Spartans return to Reach, where the UNSC High Command has developed a last-ditch plan to capture a Covenant High Prophet, who they hope could be used in order to barter a truce. The Master Chief's armor is upgraded, and he first encounters the artificial intelligence (AI) Cortana during a training mission. The Covenant arrives and invade, despite the best efforts of the Spartans and other UNSC forces. Aboard the spaceship Pillar of Autumn, Cortana plots a random course of escape. Seemingly the last Spartan alive, the Master Chief enters cryonic sleep along with the Pillar of Autumn's crew."

From Master Chief (Halo) that you like so much.

Or even like that:

"Jade appears in the novelizations of both feature films. Her role in the 1995 Mortal Kombat novel by Martin Delrio is very minor as Jade (described as a long-haired Asian woman in a green silk dress with and covered in tigera and dragon tattoos, wielding two half-moon daggers) is killed with a single kick by Sonya Blade after being tricked into returning the bow of respect (this happens the same time Liu Kang fights Kitana). Jade's role in Jerome Preisler's 1997 novelization of Annihilation is similar as she first tries to seduce Liu Kang and later lures the Earthrealm warriors into a trap. In it, Jade is described as "absolutely, stunningly beautiful", as "bulky animal skins in which she was wrapped only seemed to accentuate the long, seductive, length of her body", and turns out to be Kitana's former lover. In the end, she is put to death by the enraged Shao Kahn, who first strangles her and then feeds her to a living stained glass window monster."

From Jade (Mortal Kombat).

Maybe the GoW Wikia has info on that, or else you've probably got to read the books yourself. --Niemti (talk) 00:23, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

And yes, Jade's article needs some copyedit badly. --Niemti (talk) 00:32, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

The only reason I "like so much" the Master Chief article is because it's a good article to use as an example and it's FA. I have checked the GoW Wikia and it doesn't go in depth of the differences, just a basic summary that could be used for the game. I will one day read it though. JDC808 (talk) 07:12, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Master Chief is a FA? Odd. Anyway, if you're going for FA I guess you've got to do explain with the Kratos (mythology) connection. Even if it's just the name. --Niemti (talk) 08:58, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and possibly tragic hero too. (Some source for that.) --Niemti (talk) 09:03, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

And Deimos (mythology). Of course. --Niemti (talk) 09:09, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

You've got to also find sources for some unreferenced stuff, like for Joseph Gatt being the motion capture actor. --Niemti (talk) 09:15, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Yup, Master Chief is in fact FA. The current goal is A-Class, but yes, FA is the ultimate goal. In regards to mythology Kratos, where would we put it? The lead, Concept and creation, it's own section? Would this page need Deimos (mythology) since it's about Kratos? If so, should we also include Calliope, Lysandra, and Callisto which are also of the mythology (with no relation to the game characters) though Lysandra was real? Sources can be found. JDC808 (talk) 03:10, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

An inspiration / name goes to the character development part (like in Kitana (Mortal Kombat)#Design). And Deimos is being discussed as his brother and even is in an illustration here (or two). --Niemti (talk) 08:19, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay, now to figure out the best way to implement it. I know that mythology Kratos is referenced in the God of War: Unearthing the Legend documentary and how God of War Kratos contradicts the one in mythology in regards to their role with Prometheus, but that's about as far as it goes with that. JDC808 (talk) 09:39, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

References

Comments

With regards to ([2]):

• The statement about being an icon is unsourced, references other characters whose articles do not make such generalisations and is poorly worded.

No references in the lead and one of the sources in reception refer to him as an icon. The references to other characters was copied from Master Chief which is an FA. JDC808 (talk) 19:20, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

• More arguing over non-issues, the mention in the image caption is tidier without the "although" and "image" is far less clunky than "visage".

How is visage chunky? It's a better, descriptive word. As for the caption, your version sounds like a poorly worded statement. You need to read the whole caption through. It says they were "unused" variations, so we should say, "however" or "although" to indicate that they were later used or were the bases of those costumes. JDC808 (talk) 19:20, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

• The Reception section was tidied and now has all the same information without the colloquial comments (e.g. "On the other hand") and unnecessary exposition (breaking down finishing move rankings - use the link!). Bluerim (talk) 10:11, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

The finishing moves are okay to list here. They're essentially like awards. We don't wanna make the reader leave the page just to know the the various places he came in. If they wanna look at the link to verify or to just look at all 50, then that's okay, but it's best if we can do our best to keep them from having to unnecessarily leave the page. As for colloquial language, work on your usage of parenthesis. JDC808 (talk) 19:20, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

We will require another opinion. Bluerim (talk) 05:22, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

A full list is not needed - just writing it's several, including this-and-that as number one. There's also a plenty of other reception for Kratos in various pubs, really lots. --Niemti (talk) 22:02, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay, and what about the other points that Bluerim addressed? JDC808 (talk) 02:09, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

You know, we did work this article together. "On the other hand" was mine and there's nothing wrong with it - and also I don't think it's more colloquial than "almost totally". Visage is not the same as just "image", and the picture was indeed of (part of) his face only.[3] --Niemti (talk) 07:17, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Speaking as an observer, there is a sentence in the Reception subsection with some problems

"GameSpot stated God of War did not allow the player to initially understand Kratos, but would be evident by the game's conclusion"

Unless I'm mistaken, this is a bit of a grammatical trainwreck, and means nothing. Understand what? What would be evident? Arguably, it's also not really criticism of the character, just a description of how his story arc plays out. There are several quotes from that source which I think would serve the article better than what was chosen:

- "a highly entertaining antihero, and the story constructed for him works brilliantly"
- "a mean-spirited, unlikable son of a bitch"
- "you should find yourself sympathetic to this flawed but repentant warrior"
- "A big part of what makes Kratos so endearing, despite his cruel and unforgiving demeanor, is how much of a total badass he is" --83.71.1.29 (talk) 12:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I think it's a remnant from before the rewrite. And you're right. --Niemti (talk) 14:12, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I've reworded that whole sentence a bit so that it makes more sense. Hope it's acceptable. --83.71.1.29 (talk) 15:45, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Greek mythology's Kratos & Deimos

Surely some sources are mentioning the obvious connection, should be included in the article. --Niemti (talk) 16:38, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Actually no. Every source I've read about Kratos says nothing about a connection with the mythology Kratos, not even just the name. The only time mythology Kratos has been mentioned was in the documentary God of War: Unearthing the Legend where professional historians (not the GoW development team) stated that there was a character in Greek mythology named Kratos and he was one of the two characters that binded Prometheus, whereas video game Kratos freed him. Mythology Kratos also only makes one appearance in the mythology which is the binding of Prometheus. I also have not seen a source for a connection with video game Deimos and the mythology Deimos. If you can actually find a source where David Jaffe has mentioned he got inspiration for this Kratos from the mythology one, then by all means, add it. Same for Deimos. --JDC808 ♫ 21:17, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

The article lacks artist(s) info

Even if it was also Jaffe. --Niemti (talk) 10:09, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Bonus costumes content from Wikia

"Bonus-costumes-throughout-the-series" stuff needs a better source in the "concept and creation" section. The information uses this source from the God of War Wiki, which is part of Wikia, found on the last sentence of that section. According to WP:VG/S#Unreliable sources, Wikia is not a reliable source and it is "expressly prohibited as a self-published source, as it is not known for fact checking or accuracy, and its content can wildly change at any time." Hounder4 (Talk) 21:16, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Will look for replacement source. --JDC808 ♫ 05:06, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

gun

jsishs Gunrul (talk) 14:09, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:36, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Race

Should we link the God in the infobox to Deity? Kratos is not God (to which directs to the all-powerful creator deity of monotheistic thought). (103.217.166.117 (talk) 22:57, 2 October 2021 (UTC))

Agreed. 103.104.117.205 (talk) 12:17, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 January 2024

Kratos' (Ancient Greek: Κράτος lit. "strength") is a character and the protagonist of Santa Monica Studio's God of War series, based on Greek mythology and later, Norse mythology. SAWaysu (talk) 21:37, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. PianoDan (talk) 21:44, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

== Lead and Reception ==

Reception and especially the Lead sections needs to be cleaned up/improved as the article seems to be not in good shape anymore. GAR could happen in the future if the issues still remain sadly. GreenishPickle! (🔔) 12:13, 2 April 2024 (UTC)