Talk:Kenny Rogers and The First Edition

comments

I added the NPOV tag. There are many statements in this article that seem to breach the NPOV policy. Such as "While their music was excellent, their second hit was nothing like their first," "Kenny's soft voice on verses and rock shouting on the chorus made for a great record,"The music was terrific" just to name a few. References could also help. I don't know anything about this band, so I can't really help. - Akamad 10:45, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

A lot of the article was nonsence and I doubt the authour would be able to quote sources. Therefore I have once again reverted this nonsence. Kenny did not leave the group as such, he disbanded the group, there were no first edition records or tours without Kenny. Also, Kenny was creative in his solo carrer after the group split in 1976. "Daytime Friends" (1977) and "Kenny"(1979) for example were two very diverse records, probably even more diverse than any First Edition album. 195.93.21.36 15:26, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Have redone article to not include the POV and the false info. Broken into sections rather than one long page. 205.188.116.74 19:58, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

This article needs further POV editing, especially in relation to geography. The USA is referred to as "here". There is a reference to bringing country music to "the north". Design 13:45, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

The POV was once again re-added. Again it has been removed. This is not a place for someone to air their opnions and tell us what "the facts are", i.e claming Rogers sang his best on a certain track and that he was a sell out in his solo carrer, etc. 74.65.39.59 20:35, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Once again the editor has added his POV. I have removed it. 205.188.116.199

I would also like to add here that the editor has gone around wikipedia ruining articles about Kenny Rogers for many months now, adding own views in. This is not on. One example is his/her recent edit to the Ten Years Of Gold page which reads:

Ten Years Of Gold is a compilation album by Kenny Rogers issued in 1977. His fourth solo album, it is a collection of ten songs spanning the last decade. The album features solo reworkings of hits Kenny had with The First Edition that on the whole reveal his diminished vocal range. A disco "Just Dropped In" is probably the worst of the lot, but none come off particualrly well. Though Kenny had already scored three other solo hits, "Lucille", "Daytime Friends", "Love Lifted Me" and "While The Feeling's Good" are all that represent his recent work. The last track is the First Edition's original hit recording of "Today I Started Loving You Again", which Kenny still had the rights on. Oddly they are not credited on the album jacket, even individually.

This is not the place to air your own views please. Personally, I prefer many of the solo versions of Ten Years Of Gold and think he is in better voice. If you want to air your views on Kenny's music, then write reviews on Amazon.com. DO NOT put them into articles on wikipedia! 205.188.116.199 12:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced and Copyedit

I placed these tags on the page because I feel this article needs a lot of work. I'll try to find time this weekend to do some cleanup myself if I have time. Although I think the recent overhaul was excessive, section by section sourced cleanup should be more effective than edit warring.

Mike Eder, your edit summary for blanking this talk page was, "What I wrote is a biography. The info on other versions are wrong and I can back any of the facts. This group is all but ignored and needs critical re-assesment"

• What I wrote is a biography. - Is this your essay? Is this original research?
• I can back any of the facts. - Don't say it. Do it. Provide reliable sources please.
• This group...needs critical re-assesment - What this group needs is an overhauled page with more sources and less bias.

I'm assuming that you were 76.209.63.222 before creating this account today. If so, you may also want to read up on WP:OWN. Edit summaries of "HEY LEAVE THIS ALONE I WORKED DARN HARD ON IT." and "This is the revision that should stay please leave it alone." aren't exactly appropriate.

--Onorem 12:33, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

There is a line in the article about the guitar solo: " ... the solo that later led Jimi Hendrix to tell Kenny that it was his favorite record." Speaking as a musician, this sounds like hearsay and is very hard for me to believe. If ever there was a "citation needed" imo, this is a classic example. ..davequ

The writing done by Mike Eder was supervised and checked,rechecked, and approved for authenticity by Mickey Jones and Terry Williams, founding First Edition members. These are your reliable sources. Audrey D, (fan club president for many years, for The First Edition) -->

This article is in serious need of editing. It's rife with spelling inconsistencies, which lead to confusion. The reader shouldn't have to try to devine the intent or who is being referred to. CorlyssD (talk) 19:52, 7 December 2010 (UTC) CorlyssD

Beard?

The article states that Rogers was older than the rest of the band and grew a beard to look younger? Who the hell does that? I hate to generalize but beards tend to make people look older. I'm going to remove that statement; it lacks a source in any case. -R. fiend 13:56, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

This is indeed the reason Kenny stated for growing the beard. Check any First Edition biography. Audrey D for The First Editionawdrey 07:51, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Most First Edition biographies state Rogers grew the beard to unslick his look, not nessacarily look younger. From the photos I have seen from the late 50's and the 1960's Rogers looked younger WITHOUT his beard. 74.65.39.59 00:12, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, it was primarily the younger, hipper generation who were growing beards in those days. In that sense, anyone who let their beard grow could SEEM young (or at least young at heart), even if it didn't necessarily make them look truly youthful. Maybe that's what was meant?--Vonbontee (talk) 08:56, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Copy-edited

Finished copy-editing. There are a couple issues -

• "Though Campbell has often been credited for the distinctive guitar solo, it was actually Terry Williams who composed it." -- This needs checking whether its true or not.

Terry Williams performed and composed the solo. If Terry's word on that isn't enough, how do we "check it"?

• "Today Terry is mostly retired, on a huge farm in the Southeast" -- southeast of where? America, Britain, Mars?!

Terry's farm is north of Nashville, Tennessee. I have been there many times. Awdrey 2002 I think that's pretty much it. Someone familiar with the works of the band might want to give it a read-through though =) Pheebalicious (talk) 13:44, 30 August 2008 (UTC) As far as someone being familiar to the band, I was the Fan Club President for years, did some "on the road" time with them, and I am friends with them and their families today. I post nothing that did not come directly from one of the First Edition members. Anything Mike Eder does is also checked and approved by First Edition members. Audrey Davis (awdrey). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.156.77.41 (talk) 16:02, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Anyone can lay claim to knowing the band and speaking to them, which is why Wikipedia does not allow this original research. All information has to be backed up with sources which others can veirify, not someone stating they spoke to one of the group members yesterday. 74.77.160.135 (talk) 14:31, 28 March 2009 (UTC) Anyone could also come on here and say that they are officially Elvis Presley. Does that make it so? What do you consider sources that others can verify? Awdrey 2002 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.156.77.41 (talk) 21:38, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I didn't see any mention of Terry C. Williams, reforming the First Edition in 1994. He put together a version of the First Edition with Kin Vassy. After Kin Vassy passed away, he was replaced by Greg Collier who had been with the Arista recording group, Silver. The band consisted of Terry C. Williams on guitar and vocals, his brother Ress Benson on drums, Jana B. Landrey vocals, Joe Brouse on bass and Greg Collier on guitar and vocals. They played for the Del Mar Fair, and other fairs. They did many shows at the Buffalo Bills Casino at State Line Nevada and also the Las Vegas Hilton and the Palamino Club in the valley. They were together until 1995 and broke up after Jana decided to move to Nashville with her husband who was in the band Jagged Moon. I was going to post some photos of the group, but it would not accept it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.217.149 (talk) 00:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Jafeluv (talk) 08:13, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

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The First Edition → The First Edition (band) – The band is the popular topic, but is it also the primary topic? I really thought "The First Edition" should be redirected to edition (book), as The First Edition (disambiguation) already exists. --George Ho (talk) 02:01, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

• Support, of course. No one is helped by the present arrangement who would not be helped more by the proposed arrangement. The DAB page First edition (disambiguation) gives solid evidence that readers will be looking for all sorts of things under the general rubric "first edition". Why labour to extract a "primary topic" from that cluster? Artificial to attempt that; and insensitive to the real needs of real readers. Noetica^Tea? 03:25, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support—entirely necessary to avoid misleading search results. Tony (talk) 06:27, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support disambiguation. 70.24.248.211 (talk) 07:54, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support High probability of confusing readers. Judicatus (talk) 08:30, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support Yes, I was confused. It associates with a book in my mind, but I was wrong. I would have no problem with 'Kenny Rogers and the First Edition', though, but then I see that name only applied to a period in the life of the band, whilst the article deals with its entire history, so it's inappropriate. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 02:29, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

I bit the bullet and changed the redirect to a disambiguation page (the consensus above is more about the base name not being just about the band, but it's too specific to mean any book lowercase-"first edition").

Actual usage shows that the whole title is (sometimes) used to mean the band, so a redirect to the book is inadequate; disambiguation is needed to provide context. Diego (talk) 15:00, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 2014

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move the page (no objections in two weeks, WP:NPASR). Dekimasuよ! 20:20, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

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The First Edition (band) → Kenny Rogers and The First Edition – or Kenny Rogers and the First Edition? Per WP:NATURAL, the natural disambiguation is normally preferable. This is no exception; the current title is a parenthetical disambiguation and may imply that the natural disambiguation is obscure or lesser-known. However, that's not the case. Amazon uses the natural disambiguation. Recent compilations and reissues use the natural disambiguation. Also, Kenny Rogers is more of a well-known solo artish than his band was as a notable band. Relisted. George Ho (talk) 04:24, 16 November 2014 (UTC) George Ho (talk) 18:47, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Kenny Rogers' claim that The First Edition was formerly The Association

I'm very confused. I watched a YouTube video of Cherish by Kenny Rogers and The First Edition (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2aQHwg33Uw), and at the very beginning Rogers says, "This was a really big hit song for us back in 1965. We called ourselves The Association then, though." But this article doesn't say a word about the song or about The First Edition formerly being called The Assocation. Cherish (The Association song) only says Kenny Rogers and The First Edition covered the song. The Association and Kenny Rogers say nothing about him ever being one of the many former members of The Association, or about The First Edition formerly being called The Association. Can anyone solve this mystery? 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:3059:8016:5847:3E43 (talk) 11:18, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

I just found this book about The Association called "The Association ‘Cherish’: The Story of America’s First Folk-Rock Band" (https://books.google.com/books?id=2m9ZDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=Kenny+Rogers+%22the+Association%22+Cherish&source=bl&ots=wH0TQo3OFv&sig=V6PWP2gdodK-8QHJ-cfHnrdX1co&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjSkrKmyNTdAhUlFjQIHSE8CmEQ6AEwCHoECGIQAQ#v=onepage&q=Kenny%20Rogers%20%22the%20Association%22%20Cherish&f=false) and on page 124 it says that Rogers joined the band in 1965 ("The Texan-born Kenny Rogers would join up shortly afterwards...") 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:3059:8016:5847:3E43 (talk) 21:37, 24 September 2018 (UTC)