Talk:John Gorton

Untitled

Every source i've read has the vote tied and Gorton falling on his own sword - whats your source for the different outcome - and if so what was the 'real' result?

PMelvilleAustin 01:08, Aug 25, 2003 (UTC)

Neil Brown's book 'On The Other Hand'. Brown was a Liberal MP at the time, and he states that Gorton merely stepped down after a confidence vote was tied (33-33), without casting a vote against himself. Brown also states that Gorton didn't have a casting vote in any case (there was no provision for a Liberal leader to have one), so he couldn't have voted against himself.

Gerard Henderson refers to Brown in 'Menzies Child', so I'd imagine that he must have at least some credibility.

I think my edits to the article gives the impression that McMahon actually won the ballot, so I'd best change them.

Merric

Anyone know about the oil price shenanigans?

Perhaps there are Aussies here who can add a bit about John Gorton's bloodyminded determination during the fixing of the price for Bass Strait oil/gas. Gorton was vilified after talking with the oil companies and setting a fixed price for five years ($1.06 a barrell?) which everyone thought was in the oil companies favour (but sure proved not to be). Anyone? Moriori 02:47, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
I did not Vandalise Trivia I got this information from a reliable source the National Archives Check if you like send me an e-mail and i will give the URL --Bob 02:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Liberals and the Coalition

It is absolutely wrong that the Liberal Party has never held office without National/Country Party support. In 1935, the Lyons govt was able to govern in its own right. similary, in 1977, the Fraser government had an absolute majority of seats, adn the Howard Government has also held office without National Party support. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.69.191.16 (talk) 12:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC).

In 1935 it wasn't the Liberal Party - it was the UAP. In the case of Fraser and Howard they may have won an outright majority for the Liberals but if the County/National Party was fighting the election already in coalition with them and formed a coalition government then the Liberals were not going it alone. Timrollpickering 15:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Moreover, the Lyons-Menzies government was a debacle, and the UAP had to end up not only relying on the Country Party, but actually handing them the Prime Ministership. Also, the Nationals had ministerial positions under Fraser and Howard. If either man had tried to dispense with National Party support they would have followed Lyons and Menzies Mark I from hero to zero very quickly.--Jack Upland (talk) 22:12, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Look-Alike

Does anyone else notice that Gorton bares a striking resmeblance to a movie villain? I cant put my finger on whom, but possibly someone from the Dick Tracy movie or something along those lines.Jason McConnell-Leech 13:18, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

The joker from batman? Timeshift 18:58, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

PC postnominals

Contrary to a source provided on the website, John Gorton using the postnominals "PC" is a violation of honours protocol as only peers use the postnominals to set themselves apart because as peers they already use the title "The right honourable". Members of the privy council who are not peers aka "commoners" can only use the prefix "the right honourable".

for more information please refer to: Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council under sub-heading "Rights and priviledges of members"

--202.14.81.49 (talk) 06:28, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

http://www.apmc.oph.gov.au/lib/docs/19%20Gorton%20Web.pdf has PC and is a reliable source. Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council can't be used for a reason to remove it. Bidgee (talk) 06:37, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Place of birth

This article lists his place of birth as Melbourne. The Australia's Prime Ministers web site [1] and his RAAF service record (NAA: A9300 GORTON J G) list his place of birth as Wellington, New Zealand. 203.7.140.3 (talk) 06:49, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, this seems likely.

Australia’s Prime Ministers says:

• John Grey Gorton was probably born on 9 September 1911, the second child of John Rose Gorton and Alice Sinn. No birth certificate has been located, but a Victorian birth registry lists a John Alga Gordon, born in Prahran on 9 September 1911. This record also wrongly gives his father’s name as ‘John Robert Gordon’. Also false was the belief that his older sister Ruth had died in infancy. In fact, she was living in South Africa, aged 93, when John Gorton died on 19 May 2002. To add to the uncertainty of these records, Gorton’s father told him some time before 1932 that his birthplace was actually Wellington, New Zealand. Gorton therefore gave his place of birth as Wellington when applying for a pilot’s licence in the United Kingdom, when he enrolled at Brasenose College, Oxford, and when he enlisted in the RAAF. The revised facts of his life, including that his parents never married, did not become public knowledge until he related them for a biography published in 1968 while he was Prime Minister.

The Australian Prime Ministers Centre says:

• Probably born 9/9/1911, Prahran, although no birth certificate exists. His father later told him he was born in Wellington.

The Accidental PM says:

• Born out of wedlock, it remains unclear whether Gorton was born in Melbourne, as a birth certificate* would suggest, or in New Zealand, as his father later claimed. (* but according to other sources, there is no b/c)

Just to add to the mixture, Travel Victoria says, talking about Kerang, Victoria:

• Gorton Drive, which runs along the western shore of Kangaroo Lake, is lined with jacaranda trees and citrus orchards and was named after former Australian Prime Minister Sir John Gorton who was born in the area.

So, there's no proof of Melbourne, or Wellington. But it's significant that Gorton himself believed he was born in Wellington; although, he was later happy to have all official biogs show a Melbourne birth place. We need to say something about this, rather than just saying "Melbourne". -- JackofOz (talk) 04:09, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

The other point is that if he was indeed born in Wellington, then the person born in Prahran on 9 September 1911 was almost certainly a different person. And that means we don't know John Gorton's true date of birth; unless a NZ b/c turns up. If he believed he was born in NZ, and that the Prahran details must have referred to someone other than himself, it's curious that Gorton would allow this date to appear on the public record as his own birth date. Maybe his NZ birth wasn't recorded, his parents not being married. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:14, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Year photo was taken

Refer to the photo of Gorton and his wife that was originally dated as "1950's" I have changed it to Ca. 1968 - Refer nla.gov.au/nla.pic-vn3683635 As soon as I saw the photo I knew it had to be later than the 1950's

Request for Comments

There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.

The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.

Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 02:39, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

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Hains polling on Henty

In Final years in parliament -

"In 1972, businessman David Hains commissioned a series of polls in marginal electorates that showed the Coalition would significantly increase its vote if Gorton mounted a successful comeback; for instance, polling in the Division of Henty found that his return would add eight points to the Liberal vote. "

I attempted to write a follow-up to this but it got reverted by MaterialScientist with an unfair warning from him.

That passage states the results of the Hains polling which saw voting in Henty would have a difference if Gorton were restored as Prime Minister.

This then didn't get a follow-up of what was the outcome in Henty with McMahon still Prime Minister at the 1972 election.

The outcome in Henty is that the Liberals narrowly retained the seat despite a huge swing to the ALP. This is the fact I wanted to emphasise.

Hains made a particular point with Henty as he try to make his case for Gorton to be restored as Prime Minister.

The election results in Henty speaks for themselves and the reader should be given the opportunity to make their own assessments of these results based on the Hains polling.

I was merely establishing a follow-up to the Hains polling that was placed in this article by someone else.49.3.72.79 (talk) 12:19, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

I don't think Materialscientist's objection was to the content of your edit, it's more the fact that you didn't provide a source. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 14:01, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Well I don't agree with his interpretation. As I said I was expanding what it was already said based on the available facts.49.3.72.79 (talk) 14:47, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Did he sit in the Senate as Prime Minister?

It is already well known that Gorton was still a Senator when he was sworn in as Prime Minister but the question I like to ask is whether he actually sat in the Senate as Prime Minister between his swearing in as Prime Minister on January 10 1968 and his resignation from the Senate on February 1 to successfully contest the House of Representatives seat of Higgins.

I am thinking that he probably didn't as January didn't seem to be the time of year in which Parliament was in session.

Whether he sat in the Senate as Prime Minister or not this very fact should be included in the article to emphasise the position he was in, in having to resign from the Senate to transfer to the House of Representatives due to the convention of the Prime Minister being a member of the lower house. 49.3.72.79 (talk) 11:17, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Just found the answer to my question here: https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/House_of_Representatives/Powers_practice_and_procedure/Practice7/HTML/Chapter2/The_Ministry

"Senator Gorton did not sit in the Senate as Prime Minister because neither House met during the period between his election as Prime Minister and his subsequent election as a Member of the House of Representatives." 

I am now going to put this in the article. 49.3.72.79 (talk) 11:24, 23 September 2021 (UTC)