Talk:James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose

Montrose at Aberdeen

I have added additional references to the Aberdeen campaign. The Aberdeen Council Records are clear that the original expedition to Aberdeen (the 6000 men) were under the command of General Alexander Leslie. The Aberdeen Burgh Records correctly cite Montrose as being in charge by May (Leslie left Montrose and the Earl Marischal in the town on 12 April. I have given citation to two secondary works that cite this, but also reference to the original published letter collection. These vary (but only very slightly) from the manuscript sources housed in Aberdeen City Archive. I have shared these with the scholars working in the field, but the same information is explicitly expressed in the published Letters.

Misc

Should this guy be in the category "British poets"? -R. fiend 22:02, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've added a link to the Scottish Civil War article and a link to Alasdair MacColla and Confederate Ireland, where most of Montrose's troops came from. Jdorney

Montrose at Dundee.

I am pleased to say that I have finally come across a Wikipedia piece on a Scottish subject worthy of commendation, well-argued and well-written, unlike so many others. There are, however, points at which the author's obvious admiration for his subject comes close to an almost total loss of objectivity. I personally do not believe that Montrose was the 'greatest soldier of the war', Cromwell excepted. There are others equally deserving of recognition, my personal favourite being General John Lambert; but even Black Tom Fairfax and Henry Ireton are worthy of mention. My wording is better and more neutral.

The real matter here concerns Montrose's alleged ability, which I have always believed-and argued-has been considerably overestimated. His victories, remarkable as they were, owed more to the incapacity of his enemies than to his own innate abilities as a soldier. In particular his neglect of military intelligence was notorious, taking him close to the threshold of disaster at Dundee, Fyvie and Auldearn, and over the threshold at Philiphaugh and Carbisdale. I've edited out the highly subjective statement about his conduct at Dundee because it strays so far from the facts. Let me try and explain the true position as briefly as I can.

Dundee far from being a great success was a self-induced fiasco. Believing his main opponents, General William Baillie and Sir John Hurry, were still south of the Tay, Montrose sent the bulk of his army north to Brechin in April 1645, while he advanced to Dundee with the Irish infantry and some of the Gordon cavalry, for no better reason than to make a 'showing' in the Lowlands. Even with Baillie and Hurry to the south, this operation involved a high degree of risk, because the army would not be able to make a quick retreat to the cover of the hills. As so often in Montrose's campaigns no scouts were sent out; and Baillie's army, was not far to the south: it was at Perth. As soon as he learned of the rebels whereabouts, he marched off in pursuit. In the late afternoon of 5 April, with a high proportion of his Irish infantry incapacitated by drink, Montrose was shocked to see Baillie making a rapid approach from the west. With some difficulty the army was reassembled, only just in time, and a fighting retreat was made to the east, the royalists suffering a number of losses in the process. Montrose's pointless raid on Dundee had brought is army close to destruction. This was a feat that no general in Europe would wish to emulate! Rcpaterson 03:53, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Spanish Army of Flanders

According to Geoffrey Parker ('The Military Revolution'), part of the disciplined Irish infantry under Montrose's command was seconded from the Spanish Army of Flanders. Those veterans embarked on 2 Dunkirker frigates. Dunkirk used to be a Spanish-Flemish privateering base.

Birth date

Burke's Peerage and The Complete Peerage both only give a birth year (1612). A more specific date should not be added to this article unless supported by a reliable reference. - Nunh-huh 18:37, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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Religion?

What was his religion? Creuzbourg (talk) 13:35, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

He was a presbyterian, or at least a protestant, he supported the National Covenant. PatGallacher (talk) 16:44, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

He can not have been an Episcopalian, as he was against the imposition of Episcopacy on Scotland. But he can hardly have been a Covenanter: "In turn, this sparked the outbreak of civil war in Scotland in 1644–47, as Scottish Royalist opponents of the Covenanters took up arms against them. Royalism was most common among Scottish Roman Catholics and Episcopalians, who were opposed to the Covenanters' imposition of their religious settlement on the country. The Covenanters' enemies, led by James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose " (from that article). Creuzbourg (talk) 19:24, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Actually, in a sense he was, since he signed the National Covenant. However, may be unhelpful dispute, since this is in a sense a political as much as a religious label. PatGallacher (talk) 16:48, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Anachronism

"He was hanged on the 21st, with Wishart's laudatory biography of him around his neck." The Wishart linked to from here is the well-knwon Protestant preacher and martyr (1513-1546). How can a person exectued in 1546 author a biography, laudatory or not, of another person executed in 1650?

It was another George Wishart, this one. Accordingly changed the link, thanks for noting it. ...GELongstreet (talk) 17:33, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Poetry?

Maybe a mention of his best known poem, “My Dear and Only Love”, with these lines from it still quoted today:

He either fears his fate too much,
   Or his deserts are small,
That puts it not unto the touch
   To win or lose it all.

Some references to this would improve the article. 2A00:23C7:E287:1900:C91A:E99B:2DBA:6948 (talk) 19:36, 26 April 2022 (UTC)