Talk:Italian occupation of France

Occupied

Was it occupied or annexed? --84.20.17.84 11:28, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Occupied. I believe only Germany directly annexed certain parts of France into the Großdeutschland. A great book which discusses this subject (I've added some information on the article) is Germany and the Second World War. Oberiko (talk) 00:54, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Both occupied and annexed. The whole part was occupied, except for 2/3 of Menton (as Mentone) and Fontan, which were formally +annexed+ to Italy (while Germany illegaly annexed de facto Alsace-Lorraine, Luxembourg and the Eastern cantons of Belgium). Gallagher06 15:26, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

The first two paragraphs are inconsistent. Lavateraguy (talk) 11:14, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Talk:France during World War II

It's important to sort out the mess that are the WWII articles.

All input welcome. Thank you. ^walk victor falk ^talk 20:10, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi.

What mess do you mean? Like, I've noticed two different dates for the Invasion of France by Italy. The Italian Invasion of France article mentions that the Italian campaign only started on 20th June, while this article mentions the 10th June. Which date is correct? AnnalesSchool (talk) 16:20, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't mean this article in particular, but WWII France articles in general. Heaps of redundant and overlapping information, yet vast gaps in coverage, military is OK but political almost non-existent. ^walk victor falk ^talk 06:31, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Characteristics section is unreferenced, out of place and erroneous.

Overall, the Italian forces numbered about 700,000 troops in June 1940. However, while they enjoyed a huge numerical superiority to the French, they had several deficiencies. The Italian armored regiments were from the 133 Armoured Division Littorio and included between 150 to 250 L3/35 tankettes which were little more than lightly armored machine-gun carriers not suited for modern warfare. Most [according to whom?]Italian units had inadequate or obsolete artillery and lacked motor transport. [according to whom?]Specific to this front, the Italians were not equipped for the cold Alpine environment, and faced the formidable fortifications of the Alpine Line (called the "Little Maginot").

The tanklettes were suitable for modern warfare. Most armies at the time used them, right up to today. Italian units did not have inadequate or obsolete artillery, nor did they lack motor transport. The Italians were equipped for the cold Alpine environment.

Can you please provide evidence or references for the above?

AnnalesSchool (talk) 21:42, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

• Ciro Paoletti (A Military History of Italy, p. 169) considers the L3 useless and asserts that the Italian military had only 23,000 vehicles (of all kinds) at the outbreak of the war, which was half of what they believed they needed. Ian Walker also calls tankette uselss and obsolete in Iron Hulls, Iron Hearts: Mussolini's Elite Armoured Divisions in North Africa

. Claims repeated in most observations about the L3 in 1940.

• Philip Jowett (The Italian Army 1940–45, p. 4) asserts that less than 300 pieces of artillery were modern. The vast majority, over 7,500 guns, were upwards of 40 years old. A claim supported by Allan R. Millett and Williamson Murray in Military Effectiveness, Volume 3. A position repeated in practically every book on the Italian army in 1940, several go as far to note the modern pieces were up to ten years old in some cases and modern artillery did not really start getting produced in numbers until the following year.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 23:06, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Mussolini

Mussolini even had a Jewish mistress, Margherita Sarfatti, and refused to hand over Jews in Italian-occupied Europe to the Nazis.

The line may be misleading. While Mussolini may not have had personal anti-Semitic convictions, and the Italians avoided handing over the Jews under their administration to Germany (although there was no clear Italian position on the matter, and much less an unambiguous order from Mussolini not to hand over Jews in occupied territory - attitude very much varied depending on the area), this didn't last. Italian Jews were eventually deported after the armistice, when most of the country fell under the control of the German armies (through the Italian Social Republic, a Mussolini-led puppet state), and fascists zealously helped with that, with Mussolini's approval. The RSI, representing the most radical and pro-German members of the previous regime (Farinacci, Graziani, etc.) also took a decidely anti-Semitic character - declaring Jews to be a foreign and enemy nation in the Verona Charter of November 1943 - under Mussolini's leadership.--Daydreamers (talk) 18:48, 18 January 2017 (UTC)