Talk:Interlingue/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Gerald Waldo Luis (talk · contribs) 15:00, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey, I will be reviewing this article as part of participating in Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/GAN Backlog Drives/July 2021. This is a long article, so comments would appear slowly. I am new (literally) to language articles, so if I'm not aware of a MOS or something please correct me. GeraldWL 15:00, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Great! I had given up hope that someone would come along to review it. We definitely don't have a MOS and overall articles on auxiliary languages tend to be pretty bad and full of fluff to try to promote them (trying to change that practice with this article). Artistic languages like Quenya tend to serve as better models as they are written without that promotional interest in mind. Mithridates (talk) 15:14, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Mithridates, GANs definitely have a backlog issue; I remember forgetting about an article I nominated and then someone reviewed it and I'm like "dang, I made that article?" Also I would recommend putting this on watchlist, in case you haven't. GeraldWL 15:19, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Resolved comments from GeraldWL 10:03, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

===Lead and infobox=== There seems to be many references in the lead. Citations are not discouraged or encouraged, but I feel like they make the lead feel messy in this case, and it would be better to remove them, maybe add some info to the body. “regular appearance of the magazine Cosmoglotta” Cosmoglotta should be italicized. “Esperantist Don Harlow wrote that Occidental had an” and “ the community and Occidental gained adherents”-- should it be Occidental or Interlingue? Weird that the infobox image alt is “Tilde de Occidental”. Alts are texts so that people with vision deficiency can understand the image. References: interesting, I didn't know I could leave the lead without references. Will work on that. Italicized: done Occidental vs. Interlingue: in general Occidental for events before and up to and including 1949, and Interlingue thereafter. alt text: changed to actual alt text Mithridates (talk) 15:21, 30 June 2021 (UTC) Okay, I've moved all the references out of the lead into other parts of the article and will start on the next comments. Mithridates (talk) 16:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC) Beginnings The rule of thumb is that the lead is a summary of the body; thus it's separated from each other. So, in "The language that de Wahl announced", it should be the full name, and linked. I'm gonna make this easier by quoting which part needs linking or complete names, etc., at the Need links subsection. Italicize all mentions of Cosmoglotta and Kosmoglott. Quotes do not need to be italcized. "regressive to you...I understand" I assume the ... is to omit sentences that are not important to quote. [...] is much better, as I feel like most people will interpret ... as pauses in dialogue. So "regressive to you [...] I understand" "creator of Latino sine flexione Giuseppe Peano and gained"-- add comma after Peano for more natural read flow. "I believe the "Vocabulario commune" book"-- assuming you've unitalicized this, the "Vocabulario commune" should be italicized and unquoted. "after hearing that the League of Nations had begun"-- add "(LON)" after "League of Nations", and use the abbreviation for other mentions of it. "a booklet entitled "Transcendent algebra" by Jacob Linzbach,"-- italicize and unquote "Transcendent algebra". "Occidental began gathering followers despite a complete lack of grammars and dictionaries due to its readability." Would be easier to understand if it's rephrased to "Occidental began gathering followers due to its readability, despite a complete lack of grammars and dictionaries." You can put ref 27 with beside ref 28 so you don't have to add another ref 28 and increase page size. "Two Ido societies"-- what is Ido? "the next year in 1925, the radicarium directiv" I assume radicarium directiv is a Latin phrase? I don't think this is common-- suggest find a similar English term or phrase. "was moved to Vienna, Austria in the"-- there's already a mention of Vienna being in Austria above, so Austria is not needed. GeraldWL 10:31, 1 July 2021 (UTC) Need links "publication in 1922 in Tallinn, Estonia under the name"-- link Talinn and Estonia "under the name Auli (auxiliary language)"-- link auxilliary language "one in Vienna (Austria) called"-- link Austria "in Brno (Czechoslovakia), which"-- link Czechoslovakia "based in Germany, Austria, Sweden, Czechoslovakia, Switzerland, and most recently in France"-- link Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and France. GeraldWL 10:31, 1 July 2021 (UTC) Okay, I've made all the changes you suggested except the one about the Radicarium Directiv which is just a name for Occidental's first dictionary (not a Latin term). Though I noticed that I forgot to capitalize it and have done so now. Mithridates (talk) 14:43, 3 July 2021 (UTC) Mithridates, In "The language that de Wahl announced" it has to be the full name, and linked. That's the only thing you missed. GeraldWL 15:59, 3 July 2021 (UTC) Oh right, I had meant to ask about that. The language that he announced is simply the language itself (Interlingue, then known as Occidental) so there can't be a link to it. I suppose "the language that de Wahl announced" kind of makes it look like he had announced a different language so I think I'll change the wording there. Mithridates (talk) 16:11, 3 July 2021 (UTC) Mithridates, I think I'm not quite clear there. I'm referring to de Wahl himself. It should use his full name, and linked. GeraldWL 16:42, 3 July 2021 (UTC) Ah!! Now I see what you mean. Okay, done. Mithridates (talk) 16:49, 3 July 2021 (UTC) Mithridates, awesome! Anyway, it's midnight here and I won't be able to make further review now; I'll continue tomorrow. I assure the entire "Vienna period, World War II and language standardization" will be reviewed. GeraldWL 16:57, 3 July 2021 (UTC) VPWWIIALS "from which "Cosmoglotta was able"-- Cosmoglotta needs to be italicized here to despite being from a quote. Okay, done. "This did not last long as Hörbiger and Moore both died in 1931, and Cosmoglotta was again forced to rely on revenue from subscriptions, publications and the like." Appears to be uncited. Reference #16 has both of these points (patron deaths + needing to rely on subscriptions). Should I cite it in both places or just leave it once at the end? Mithridates, I'd just have the whole paragraph relying on ref 16. So as I see now there's two ref 16s, suggest removing the first. GeraldWL 09:53, 6 July 2021 (UTC) "Occidental on phonograph (gramophone)"-- why is there two versions of the word phonograph stated? I guess I could just go with phonograph. In Occidental it's gramofon and not knowing if there's a difference between the two, I opted to put gramophone in brackets. I'd just refer it to the gramophone. "existed in and about Occidental." Uncited. The two references a few words before this have the numbers: the first one says there are 74, followed by a correction in the next issue where de Wahl mentions another six. Should I move those two to the end of the sentence then? That sounds just right. "leading up to the Second World War led to"-- the article must be consistent between Second World War or World War II. I suggest WWII, since it is the common name. Also link to World War II. Okay, also did the same with World War I. I think you might've linked WWII in the subheading, which is not allowed per MOS:NOSECTIONLINKS. Instead link it at the "leading up to World War II led" part. "No communication took place between Edgar de Wahl in Tallinn"-- remove "Edgar", also do this for the succeeding mentions of "Edgar." Done. "of both Cosmoglottas"-- change to Cosmoglotta-s Done. "During the wartime period, only those in neutral Switzerland and Sweden were able to fully devote themselves to the language, carrying on activities in a semi-official form." Uncited. True. I added two references here (one mentioning Switzerland, the second mentioning both). Mithridates (talk) 15:27, 5 July 2021 (UTC) Okay, finished everything here (moving references, just writing gramophone, changing the World War II link). Mithridates (talk) 14:19, 6 July 2021 (UTC) Mithridates, sorry for the delay! Here's the rest of the review: No problem! I took a day or two to respond too. "with the longer and more Latin-like form having a heavier and more formal character and the shorter a lighter and more everyday tone"-- Too much use of and. Okay, took out the Latin part. "Orthography was another area"-- link orthography. Done. "limits. "Standardizing" the language"-- The standardizing quotations is within quotations, which should apostrophe ('Standardizing'). Okay, thanks. "Occidentalists sent to concentration camps"-- link concentration camp. Done. "a few months before the end of World War II in Europe, and Cosmoglotta A began publication again in 1946." Uncited. GeraldWL 04:24, 15 July 2021 (UTC) Okay, reference 40 has that so I copied it there.

IALA, Interlingua, and name change to Interlingue

• "The International Auxiliary Language Association"-- add the acronym in brackets.
  • Done.
• "The co-founder of the IALA Alice Vanderbilt Morris" --> "The co-founder Alice Vanderbilt Morris"
  • Done.
• "including Edgar de Wahl himself"-- remove "Edgar"
  • Could have sworn I got rid of all the needless Edgars...done.
• "entitled "Some weak points of Occidental")"-- put references after the brackets.
  • Done.
• "who later joined Interlingua in"-- link Interlingua
  • Done
• "and calling IALA's new language "almost the same language""-- the second 'language' is not needed.
  • I'd prefer to keep that quote as is but rewrote this part a bit to make it fit better.
• "after Occidental had created "unity in the naturalistic school" for so long." Uncited.
  • Ah, reference 69 applies to this quote as well as the one before so I moved it to the end of the sentence. Mithridates (talk) 15:31, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Mithridates, I would recommend looking at all uncited bits and citing them. For example, in this section there seems to be three uncited texts.
• "The control languages"-- why in italics?
• "Germanic substrate and"-- link substrate (linguistics)
• "Another difficulty for the post-war Occidentalists was political." Political or politics is better?
• "(International auxiliari lingue)"-- discouraged by MOS to use bold in this instance.
• Put "Interlingue (Occidental)" in quotations.
• ""In the field of naturalistic planned"-- blockquotes don't need quotation marks.
• "renaming their language Interlingue"-- remove the bold.
  • Okay, I've made all those changes and am going through the rest of the text to see which parts are still uncited. Mithridates (talk) 15:13, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Stagnation and revival

• "Memorandum (UK)"-- change UK to "United Kingdom" since it's the first mention, no need to abbreviate as it's the only mention.
  • Done.
• "Barandovská-Frank believed that the ebb in interest in Occidental-Interlingue"-- Occidental or Interlingue then?
  • This is a tough one because it's talking about the language both in the past and present. It does get mentioned as Occidental-Interlingue a lot though.
• "documentary"-- add "film" and link documentary film
  • Done.
• "by Steve Hawley and Steyger on planned languages introduced Interlingue speaker Donald Gasper as "one of the last remaining speakers of the language Occidental"." Uncited.
  • Cited but I should have moved the citation to the end (and have done so now).
• "An Interlingue Wikipedia"-- link Wikipedia.
  • Done.
• Link Munich and Ulm.
  • Done and done.
• Last paragraph is uncited. GeraldWL 13:50, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Hmm, I guess I'll have to take this one out then. I know it's the most recent one because I helped put it together but I doubt that a Facebook announcement by the people that still publish it would count. A new issue is coming out soon in any case and I'll goad them into making an actual announcement about it this time. Mithridates (talk) 14:39, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Language philosophy

• Yeahh, you kinda missed some of the Edgars here. I don't know if you already use this, but ctrl+F is really helpful in finding words.
  • I only found one more (under Language Philosophy). The other is in the intro and then the first paragraph of the body, then two instances of Edgar de Wahl from a book with his full name in the title.
• "the earliest users of the language Esperanto"-- remove "language", as esperanto has been explained via link above.
  • Okay.
• The first paragraph is kinda too long. I suggest breaking to a new paragraph starting at "Some of the language creators".
  • Okay.
• "are listed in a request for the committee to declare:"-- uncited.
  • This one is also cited - moved it to the end. (Or should it be at the end of the blockquote?)
  • Thanks as always! Mithridates (talk) 14:39, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Review will not be completed

I pinged Gerald Waldo Luis on their talk page, and they will not be returning to this review. Accordingly, I have returned the nomination to the pool of those awaiting a reviewer without any loss of seniority—it will be the oldest unreviewed nomination, and thus likely to be picked up reasonably quickly. The next review will take place on a different page from this one. Pinging nominator Mithridates, so they know what is happening. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:59, 21 September 2021 (UTC)