Talk:History of Europe

Latest comment: 1 year ago by TylerBurden in topic Lead length

External links modified edit

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:21, 12 June 2017 (UTC)Reply

New lede edit

I've massively reduced the size of the lede. The new one still has obvious issues, but is clearly an improvement IMO. Please feel free to make your own additions/changes to it. Power~enwiki (talk) 21:58, 13 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion edit

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:56, 5 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

Images edit

I've removed 4 images (and relocated another two). I feel there is still yet some unnecessary degree of image cluttering. Besides the cluttering, a possible modification of the set of images (introducing different ones in some cases) could also be up for discussion, but it is such a wide discussion with so many different perspectives it probably needs the opinion from many editors to avoid systemic bias. Regards.--Asqueladd (talk) 15:34, 31 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Regarding the challenging debate about the possible missing illustrations I'll start it here: for all the excess of images in the 20th century section, I think it fails to capture two key events with illustrations: the October revolution and the rise of fascism. More opinions welcome.--Asqueladd (talk) 16:03, 31 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

I leave here a gallery of possible new illustrations (and the concepts they might help to illustrate in the form of #hashtags) covering possibly poorly illustrated (yet historically significant) elements of the History of "Europe" for discussion. In the other hand while historical maps are certainly very convenient to avoid the geographical bias trap, currently there are a tad too many of them.

--Asqueladd (talk) 20:04, 31 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Lead length edit

Jayron32, TylerBurden - opening up a discussion for us here on the lead. Jayron, you've certainly improved the lead from what it was. However, I believe it is now too long. MOS:LEAD recommends 3-4 paragraphs - this article has 5. Not only that, but they are *very* long paragraphs. It's a 1000-word introduction (1053, to be precise). Looking through some of the longer featured articles in the history section, most seem to have leads of 400-700 words. Of course, this is an article with a very broad scope, so I think it requires closer to 700 than 400; but 1000+ is unwieldy and out of proportion to the rest of the article. —Ganesha811 (talk) 15:12, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

I would agree that it is too long, like you said not only does it have five paragraphs, but some of them are so long that they could easily be split in two. Some of the content should probably be cut from the lead, or at least shortened in some way. The question is what? The Russo-Ukranian war seems a bit like WP:RECENTISM to me, of course it has large implications, but we obviously don't know fully what yet, so including it in the lead on an article meant to be about the entire history of the continent may be a bit of a jumping the gun situation so to speak. TylerBurden (talk) 16:14, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
  Fixed. 653 words now.--Jayron32 16:42, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for making that change, it's a big improvement. I didn't edit it myself because I saw that you had put considerable effort into it recently and would be in a better position to judge what to cut and what to keep. —Ganesha811 (talk) 16:53, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
No problem. I don't mind doing it, but I also don't object to others doing what is needed. I recognize my own limitations, and I don't hold my own text as precious. I invite and encourage others to improve upon my own highly imperfect work. --Jayron32 17:12, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
Makes sense! There are some Wikipedians who are far touchier about someone editing down something they've just written, so I tend to be gun-shy in these situations. —Ganesha811 (talk) 20:12, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
Remember, no one owns anything here, we're all trying to improve things. :) TylerBurden (talk) 20:22, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply