Talk:History of Anatolia

Comments

Denizz my comment wasn't aimed at you. I apologize if it offended you. The problem with this article is that lacks information. What I mean is that I think there is more to History of Anatolia in Modern Turkey then 70000 illegal Armenians and having just that information makes this article very POVish. --VartanM 07:02, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Turkish nationalists are already demanding that the roughly 70,000 Armenians who work illegally in Turkey -- and who have until now been quietly tolerated by the government in Ankara -- be expelled. None of the sources say that the Armenians are citizens of Armenia. Plus there are demands that they be expelled. Also we need to use third party sources, The first source covers everything and no need for the Turkish government source, which has an obvious POV. VartanM 19:06, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it is good to list first the most obvious POVs about this region. The more POVs, the closer we are moving to NPOV. Given the background of the author of this page (not connected with any interests in this region), I think that it will be easier to reach a balance than in most of the other historical articles. I see 6 POVs here (not necessarily in this order):

• Turkish (Ottoman, Seljuk)
• Greek (Byzantine)
• Armenian (Cilician)
• Persian (Iranian)
• Arabian (Syrian)
• West European (Romans, Crusades)Lantonov 06:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

It would be nice if users with NPOV were more involved with this article. VartanM 06:25, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I left the later additions merely out of convenience, but rest assured tha I know they really need to be NPOV. I'm just trying to improve the quality one section at a time, and it is coming along nicely. Monsieurdl 11:57, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Major revision taking place

This article needs major work, and as you can see I have begun by categorizing everything and writing sourced material, beginning with the Etruscan influence and the Lydian kingdom. I would appreciate any help with this article as it really looks bare bones without material- but in the end, it will be worth it! Monsieurdl 19:28, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

This article is taking a lot of work, as it is over 3,000 years of history! If anyone has any ideas for more references with regards to the Roman Empire, the Seljuk Turks, or beyond, message me here! Thanks. Monsieurdl 19:29, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Will someone mention the greek colonization of the anatolian coasts (west snd north) because I came to learn more and all I found is the turkish ministry of culture and turism point of view... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.49.133.214 (talk) 21:53, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Battle of Avarayr

I do not see here the important Battle of Avarayr, May 26, 451 AD, led by Vartan Mamikonian who was proclaimed as an Armenian saint. This date is important in Armenian calendar and is celebrated each year as Vartanianz. In this battle Armenians liberated themselves from Persians. Avarayr is in Western Armenia (of that time) which is west of Lake Van and thus in Anatolia.Lantonov 11:24, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I have yet to reach even the Roman Republic of BC, and so as of YET it is not included. There is just no end to the sheer amount of events and civilizations involved really... that is exactly the kind of input I am looking for to make this FA one of these decades! Just kidding. Monsieurdl 02:49, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Will someone mention the greek colonization of the anatolian coasts (west snd north) because I came to learn more and all I found is the turkish ministry of culture and turism point of view... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.49.133.214 (talk) 21:51, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Troya of Homer Ilyad

For ancient Troya, see also the article Dardan, and, of course, Heinrich Schliemann, Trojan war, Historicity of the Iliad. Lantonov 15:17, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the references- I sure will! The challenge now is to how to fit them in- I'll probably have to split up the first section to make it work. As you can see, I'm right now adding to it. Monsieurdl 15:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Armenians in Turkey

It will be good for the article to remove the last sentence: "Approximately 40,000 Armenians (citizens of the Republic of Armenia) came to Turkey to look for a job illegally in recent a few years.[21]". The fact may well be true and documentally supported but it is a sensitive topic and may attract passion and fire and cause heated and unneeded discussions on ethno-historical grounds. In addition to Armenians, there are many other numerous immigrants in Turkey in recent years like Azeris, Russians, Ukrainians, etc from the former Soviet Union. They come mostly looking for better jobs because the economy of Turkey is in better shape than in those countries. Lantonov 05:59, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking about it, but up till now no firebrands have come on here and disrupted my work, luckily. I see these kinds of things all over the historical articles, and I have been very fortunate people have left me alone. Rest assured I'll remove the totally unimportant line when I get there, or someone restarts this war and causes problems. I'm fully aware of the sensitivity of this subject because of the inflammatory bill before United States Congress.Monsieurdl 11:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I changed my mind- I revised the poor passage for now as I can't stand looking at it anymore. Monsieurdl 13:31, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Check Cilicia and Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia (with maps) that should go for the period 1078-1375. Lantonov 07:32, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I already added it to the timeline- it is my template for working on the rest, so to speak. Thanks! Monsieurdl 13:30, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

While I was in Gebze, I visited the tomb of Hannibal, see Gebze. I was on a 1-week workshop at Marmara Research Center (Marmara Arastirma Merkezi). It is a huge campus but nothing about it is in the Gebze article or anywhere in Wiki. I wonder if it survived the earthquake. Lantonov 13:58, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Retract above. The Center is ok. [1] Lantonov 14:01, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Consider this one [2]. Reads relatively NPOV. Lantonov 15:00, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

That source is outstanding! I really like it because it is very organized and from what I saw very well written. I am very wary of using many internet sources unless they are book links, but this may be an exception. I'm almost there- this article is taking a long time! Monsieurdl 15:36, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Some of the references there seem to be serious non-internet sources (books) like Amélie Kuhrt, The Ancient Near East. c. 3000‑330 B.C. (2 vols., Routledge, London and New York, 1995). Vol. I Ch. 5 is relevant to chapters V‑VI of Kurkjian; Vol. II Ch. 10 is relevant to chapters VII‑X.

Check also [3] where are many translated primary sources encompassing large periods of history (not only Armenian) and also his dissertation about Seldjuk invasion and spread. Don't let time duration despair you. As a rule, good articles take a very long time. Several of them which I am working on now took me more than 8 months, and only a quarter of them is half-ready. There are additions and corrections every day. Lantonov 09:31, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject History

Since I added the tags from the other projects, I just replaced them with the History one, and of course retained the WPTR one, since we have an active group at WPH. Monsieurdl 20:06, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

• "Botsford" :
  • Botsford(1922).
  • {{cite book|last=Botsford|first=George Willis|title=Hellenic History|publisher=The Macmillan Company|year=1922}}
• "Bury" :
  • Bury, J.B.(1913).
  • {{cite book|last=Bury|first=John Bagnell|title=A History of Greece to the Death of Alexander the Great|publisher=Macmillan|year=1913}}
• "Gibbon" :
  • Gibbon (1952).
  • {{cite book|last=Gibbon|first=Edward|title=The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire|publisher=William Benton|year=1952|pages=105-108}}
• "Ramsay" :
  • Ramsay (1904).
  • {{cite book|last=Ramsay|first=W. M.|authorlink=William Mitchell Ramsay|title=The Letters to the Seven Churches of Asia|publisher=Hodder & Stoughton|year=1904}}

DumZiBoT (talk) 22:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

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Paleolithic

In this part it says: "The 250.000 years old homo sapiens footprints of Kula[1]" but according the source the time for footprint is given only for 25.000 years old. (see: In another hall, where the fossil footprints belonging to the homo sapiens species human beings living in the region in 25000 BC,) Can it be a mistake in artikel? --77.188.20.183 (talk) 02:20, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

I corrected this based on the scholarly literature --Michael Goodyear (talk) 17:03, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Duplication

This page needs reconciling with History of Turkey. --Michael Goodyear (talk) 19:33, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Formatting

I am undertaking a major revision. I see that someone reformatted all the headings because one level contained only one =, which is frowned on since it provides a font equal to the page heading. The problem with starting with 2 =s is that by the time you get to 6 =s you have a font smalle than the text which looks silly. For now I have replaced them with plain text. Alternative solutions are to use numbered headings, or to split the article (which wil probably happen anyway - see my note above). --Michael Goodyear (talk) 04:10, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

I have now addressed this issue by splitting off a separate page: Prehistory of Anatolia. --Michael Goodyear (talk) 22:54, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

It appears as though splitting is the way to go, especially after reading that humongous hatnote. I think there should be only one hatnote there. Right now I tend to think the long hatnote should stay, as it takes all those words to explain how the topic is split. However, splitting is incomplete. We are still including substantial sections on modern Turkey and modern times. According to the hatnote, that material goes under history of turkey. I might help out a bit here, but you can't count on it, so just keep on with the revision.Dave (talk) 04:53, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

You are correct and my long termn strategy is to systematically rewrite the entire topic. Having finished Prehistory, I split it off, and will work up to the Turkish Migration and then cut it off there, transferring any information that is not duplicated. --Michael Goodyear (talk) 00:26, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Since this major revision cycle is almost complete up to the establishment of the Eastern Empire, it is once again quite long, and we are getting close to another split. I propose to split off soon what has been rewritten as before, into a separate page: Classical Anatolia and then continue revising this page along the same lines as up to now. The various pages that make up the topic can be integrated through the History of Anatolia tmplate, which could be revamped at some stage. That's better than long hats. --Michael Goodyear (talk) 14:22, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Now this page has been split again, it is just a bare bones account of the Byzantines, Ottomans, and Modern Turkey - all covered well elsewhere - I will deal with the Byzantine matter shortly - - eventually it could be made a summary page with directs or a disambiguation page--Michael Goodyear (talk) 15:29, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

All pages are now linked by a navbox in place of hats. A temporary explanation of the purpose of this page has been added at top till proper Byzantine section developed --Michael Goodyear (talk) 15:17, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: editorial split. There seems to be support here for the editorial split that has already been started. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 17:13, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

---

History of Anatolia → History of Anatolia (400-1000) – To reflect the scope of this page. "History of Anatolia" should be about the general History of Anatolia, not the history of one specific period. Relisted. BDD (talk) 18:59, 27 December 2012 (UTC) Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 03:46, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

• Support the current title should become a disambiguation page. -- 70.24.250.26 (talk) 06:16, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
  • A wp:broad-concept disambiguation page. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 06:27, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

• Correction. Despite my opposition to using endashes in titles, that should be to History of Anatolia (400–1000). Apteva (talk) 22:21, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
• Comment I took a better look at this page and it looks like it used to be about the History of Anatolia in general but then the Byzantine Empire section became so developed that it overwhelmed the rest of the article and then rather then spiting a Byzantine Anatolia article off from this one people started removing some non-Byzantine info from the article. At this point I think thing to do here would be to split the Byzantine section into it's own article and restore the non-Byzantine info that was removed. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 14:55, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• Support a move as proposed or, better yet, to Byzantine Anatolia per nom contingent on the creation of a broad-concept disambiguation page or a disambiguation page. The edit history should stay with this current article, though. —  AjaxSmack  21:50, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
• Comment: agree with Apteva on the endash. HandsomeFella (talk) 09:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

• I split off the section into Byzantine Anatolia. It looks like what happened was that User:Mgoodyear delvolped this article so much that he had to split it in four, Prehistory of Anatolia, Classical Anatolia, the pre-estsing History of Turkey, and this article about Byzantine, now at Byzantine Anatolia. I'll revert to the version of this article form before Mgoodyear devolved it as a quick fix, but what we're going to need to do is rewrite those four articles here in Wikipedia:Summary style. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 23:14, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Assimilation

How did lost ancient Anatolians (Non-Whites and Whites) their language and ethnic identity? Did they already assimilated by the Greeks before Turkish invasion? Anatolia#Classical_antiquity: "A period of peaceful Hellenization followed, such that the local Anatolian languages had been supplanted by Greek by the 1st century BC". 217.172.172.200 (talk) 15:55, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

The link to Ptolemy under the heading "Wars of the Diadochi and division of Alexander's empire" goes to the wrong Ptolemy.

I have changed it twice. On the edit page it has a box saying the link is to the correct one (the one i changed it to) but when I open the page normally, it still links to the wrong Ptolemy. hello?

Mcmeanderer (talk) 03:00, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Page status

On revisiting this page after 6 years I find it a bit of a mess. In 2012, I took this version and decided to rewrite it from scratch, starting with prehistory. For a variety of reasons I abandoned it here at the end of the ninth century, when I returned from Turkey. The page was tagged for splitting, which I did, as noted above. With the wisdom of hindsight that was not the optimum choice, it should have been handled by spinning off many subpages and maintaining an overarching outline page. Now we have an unsatisfactory compromise. Among questions needing answering are, do we need this page at all, how does it work with History of Turkey, and what is Anatolia anyway. At various stages, inevitably, it got hit by geopolitical conflict involving the nature of Turks and Armenians. I will take a closer look, but not promising anything. --Michael Goodyear ✐  ✉ 19:59, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

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