Talk:Herbivore men

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2020 and 14 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Hayashikiyo.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Objectivity

While this article gives a clear and concise explanation of the term 草食(系)男子, the elaboration on its causes and effects parrot Japanese commentary uncritically while also falling prey to a freakshow mentality common to western reporting of Japanese culture. It should be blindingly obvious that people delaying marriage and children into and past their 20's and sometimes shunning the whole thing is commonly found in modern societies worldwide. The average age for a first-time mother in the US is 25, 29 in Japan and Switzerland and 28 in Norway. In Great Britain the average age of the mother is now 30, yet it does not elicit the same kind of reporting as Japan gets. That grass-eating men spend more money on cosmetics also ought to elicit a comparision with the western termmetrosexual, but you'll never hear metrosexual men being blamed for a demographic time bomb. It is not wrong to report on how the term is used in Japan, but one need to be able to take a step back and separate the facts from both the local rhetorics and ones own western expectations about Japanese culure. EverGreg (talk) 08:33, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Entering into a series of relationships while reserving marriage for a serious long-term commitment is the Western norm now, but the "herbivores" are distinct from that pattern in that they don't really seem to be actively seeking relationships. It's been reported that the birthrate in Italy is falling below replacement rate in part because men want to stay at home into their 30s and have their mothers continue to cook and do laundry for them, while women delay pregnancy because it's incompatible with wearing tight pants, so it's not only the Japanese who are singled out... AnonMoos (talk) 04:50, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I've heard the same stories, but we keep latching onto cultural stereotypes. An in-depth discussion of the italian issue is found in [1]. The economical explanation has in fact been the dominant. There's a tight job market and housing is not cheap. As for cultural factors, tradition dictates that you either live with your parents or you're married. The phase where you live alone or with friends before getting married is simply not that common in Italy, while we regard it as an almost mandatory phase. Why is there no "syndrome" label for that "Friends show" phase which delay childbringing so much?

Nor do italian parents necessarily see a great advantage in having their children move out. Sure the comical stay-at-home son also exists.His frequent mentioning is a rhetorical device meant to ridicule, not to explain. Why shouldn't a swedish or a canadian man want to have his laundry done? Why doesn't or can't an italian woman share a flat with a friend like her dutch contemporaries do? If we buy into the easy explanations we're just left with the impression that japanese and italian men are "weird" and that's it. EverGreg (talk) 14:02, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Merge with Parasitism (social offense)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to not merge. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 23:40, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

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Parasitism (social offense) is not much more then a skeleton. Looks to me that Parasitism (social offense) just wan't to drag in other articles to gain substance. I would say no --Krischik ^T 20:44, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

There's a significant coverage of this subset of social behavior, so no indeed. --Cold Season (talk) 14:14, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

MGTOW

Why isn't there a link to MGTOW in the See Also section? it's literally the same thing, except in the West... Bumblebritches57 (talk) 03:21, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

There's no link to it, because it's not a notable concept and has no article on WP; the topic has been repeatedly deleted and is now a salted page (see Men going their own way and Men Going Their Own Way), . I, JethroBT ^{drop me a line} 04:06, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Unknown editing under 'apparent cover' of my edit; a puzzle

I believe my Edit summary for this edit here was correct; not labeled 'minor' but a small, focused edit; almost could have been called 'minor' in retrospect. On the other hand the edit as it's now presented shows a major addition of material and considerable, article-wide contribution/editing. I'm not able to research this whole thing further now. Such a discrepancy I've never seen before. For now I'm going to leave it all as I just found it; though I may yet do a reversal and re-edit so as not to 'have my name' on editorial work I don't feel I did and haven't reviewed. In a quick scan there's no sign of vandalism or off-subject content but I certainly can't speak for the whole article or edit. Any observations on this -- or what may have happened -- would be appreciated. Thanks. Swliv (talk) 21:29, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Again there is an open puzzle, but the puzzling edit I addressed above here has been reversed by another editor. The puzzle is that the "1 per wp:minupg" which I'd done (and which was my Edit summary) didn't show BACK up in the reversal. Again maybe I'll come back to try to solve this puzzle but for now my near-minor edit seems to be in place (no naked urls in article) and an inexplicable 'associated part' of that edit -- as Wikipedia history shows it -- is gone from the article. Strange episode. Swliv (talk) 17:01, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Wizardchan

This is discussed at Fredrick Brennan, is the culture worth a mention here? 64.228.90.87 (talk) 02:00, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Needs Causes Section

A causes section is needed with RS. Reading the page impresses me that it is caused by only personal choices. Isn't herbivore linked to the lack of high paid lifetime employment salarymen jobs, requiring 70 hour work weeks, expectations that he has to earn as much or more than a perspective bride's father?

Is it also linked to the expectation that he will do 50% or more of household duties and child care, and is still expected in a salary man job to be in the office from 6 AM and then go out with his manager until nearly midnight every work day as part of keeping his job? With commuting, he has less than 4 hours to sleep five days a week. 2600:1700:D591:5F10:709D:A912:1547:42BF (talk) 18:03, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, but there's not an "expectation that he will do 50% or more of household duties and child care" in Japan. Even in Scandinavia, fathers aren't at 50% (some individual fathers may be, but the overall societal average is less), and in Japan the averages and cultural expectations are much much lower. I guess you haven't heard the stereotype of the Japanese husband who says only the three words "Meshi! Furo! Neru!" to his wife after getting home from work (apparently nothing about this on Wikipedia, but see here).

What is perfectly true is that both men and women find rigid roles and inflexible customs associated with traditional Japanese marriage to be narrow and confining... AnonMoos (talk) 14:52, 8 March 2024 (UTC)