Talk:Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec

Biography assessment rating comment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Edofedinburgh 11:04, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Prints Numbered or Not?

Does anyone know whether or not Lautrec numbered his prints? or were they simply just signed? Please advise and thanks in advance.

Age

"At age 13 he fractured his left thigh bone, and at 14 his right thigh bone..."

From what I've read, Lautrec broke his left thigh bone at 12 and used a can when he was thirteen, breaking his other thigh at 14. I have changed this, but anyone who wants to prove me wrong, feel free!

Also... "...was always accepted in spite of his short stature."

I don't think this is a true statement, as he was often made fun of because of his height.

I was going to punctuate this sentence properly, but I'm not sure what was meant: "he was a very odd man when it come to speaking well actually he DIDNt speak." Could someone elaborate? Does it mean (a) he was a peculiar character and (b) he didn't talk very much? Peter Harriman 21:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Genetic Defects

Genetic defects do not arise because of inbreeding. They are more-commonly found in inbred families because many genetic defects are recessive, requiring a pair of the same gene in order to be expressed. This is why it's healthier not to marry a sibling or first cousin. Inbreeding does not cause genes to mutate and become defective, contrary to popular myth. [unsigned]

The common definition of "first cousins" is that two people have the same grandparents. I'm not sure what the relationship of two people whose grandmothers were sisters would be. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 11:57, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Height

1.5m isn't 4 1/2 ft - any idea what the real height was? Iancaddy 19:01, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

A very reliable and well-researched biography, Toulouse-Lautrec by André Fermigier (Presses Pocket, 1992), quoting a medical article about Lautrec's shortness, states he was 1.52 m (5 ft).– Orlando F (talk) 19:51, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Height Answer

1.5m is 4.92126ft. So he was close to 5 foot.

Height again

There is a discrepancy between the french and english pages regardint height : 1.44 m in french and 1.54 m in english. Anyone knows his real height ? Yhave (talk) 19:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

School help

how is Lautrec's full name pronouced.

Pronunciation key

äNrē' du tOOlOOz' lōtrek'

as taken from http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/people/A0849149.html I'll take the liberty of adding this to the article until someone says i messed it up and corrects me =D

Heaven knows what pronunciation system that's supposed to be. In any case it's wrong in showing stress marks (French doesn't have syllabic stress). I've replaced it with IPA (per MoS). Vilĉjo 09:48, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Chinese version

Note that the Chinese version of this article is a front-page featured article today. Perhaps someone who speaks Chinese and English could see if there's material and sources that could be brought over? -Harmil 15:51, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Depiction in films

I suggest the section be retitled "Depiction in media", since it covers TV, too. William Moates 09:42, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Possible vandalism?

Disfiguration Section, last sentence.

On the other hand, he had hypertrophied genitals as some of his photos prove[citation needed].

?? --DanlyOmil 02:21, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

A legitimate question, but I've read this in bios on Lautrec. I just need to relocate for the necessary citation. JNW 02:29, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Alrighties thank you! :) It just kind of caught me as a strange thing to add in there. --DanlyOmil 03:52, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Pornography

The lewd expression on this man's face as he picks up the soiled linen from a brothel, while a business-like female stands with her receipt book in hand is the nearest thing to porn that I have ever seen in T-L's work.

This statement has been drawn directly from a web article. It should be in parenthesis. It is a very precise statement. But it occurs within a news article that does not concern the artists work, beyond this sentence. The article is aboout his medical condition. One presumes that the writer is a journalist not an expert in the subject of his art. This information must have come from somewhere, previous to the article.

Throughout his career, which spanned less than 20 years, Toulouse-Lautrec created 737 canvases, 275 watercolors, 363 prints and posters, 5,084 drawings, 300 pornographic works, some ceramic and stained glass work, and an unknown number of lost works.

What I am questioning is the use of the term "pornography". I have never seen a pornographic drawing by Toulouse-Lautrec. Paintings of his that have been cited as erotica are singularly un-erotic drawings of two women in bed with the covers drawn up so that the only hint of interaction is a smile which could be described as "loving".

The whole point about T-L's pics is that they are not erotic. He was actually commissioned to produce a series of pics of prostitutes, and they were such down-to-earth, sympathetic, and realistic pictures of these "working women" that the agent was disappointed and couldn't sell them. Nowhere did the artist show the women at work, or even looking out of the picture coquettishly. They are shown combing their hair, chatting between clients and standing in line looking tired and bored while waiting for an STD inspection.

I can only imagine that the reason why the word "pornography" has been used is that it means, literally, "writing about prostitutes". In the most literally sense these pictures of prostitutes are pornography. They are about prostitutes. But integral to the common meaning of the word "pornography" is the sense that someone or something is being prostituted or exploited. These pictures prostitute and exploit no-one. I am intending to change the way it is written, unless someone can come up with examples of genuinely pornographic art by this artist.

And by the way, where's the painting of the chick in the doorway under 'selected works'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.197.53 (talk) 07:56, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Amandajm (talk) 04:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm with you, Amanda. Go for it. JNW (talk) 04:59, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

If memory serves, there is at least one work (and possibly more) of a prostitute pleasuring a colleague, but, as you note, the motive is not pornographic, and such a characterization strikes me as misleading. JNW (talk) 05:06, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

The author of the NYTimes article is Natalie Angier a Pulitzer Prize winning scientific journalist who I'm sure isn't an art historian or an expert on Lautrec or on pornography either. I noticed that remark the other day and I agree it should be modified. Maybe works of a sexual nature, or pictures of bordellos or something along a different tack then straight out pornography. Modernist (talk) 14:03, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

JNW, I recall the work to which you are referring. I don't think it counts as porn. However I suppose there is a possibility of a whole group of pics which haven't been reproduced. Amandajm (talk) 21:47, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

pornographic drawing

In response to the drawings: I have seen some Lautrec pencil sketches where he is receiving fellatio off his friend's wife. I'm trying to find them online but i can't. I shall keep trying though, although i can't back up that there are 300 of them. ChrisSleeps 11:49, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

UNreferenced

Toulouse-Lautrec spent much time in brothels, where he was accepted by the prostitutes and madams to such an extent that he often moved in, and lived in a brothel for weeks at a time. He shared the lives of the women who made him their confidant, painting and drawing them at work and at leisure. Lautrec recorded their intimate relationships, which were often lesbian. A favourite model was a red-haired prostitute called Rosa la Rouge from whom he allegedly contracted syphilis. Toulouse-Lautrec gave painting lessons to Suzanne Valadon, one of his models (and possibly his mistress as well).

If you're in the UK the Channel 4 documentary covers this all quite well. <http://www.channel4.com/programmes/toulouse-lautrec-the-full-story/4od> He didn't teach Valadon but gave her encouragement. ChrisSleeps 11:00, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Artist?

This article is more like a medical journal of Lautrec, instead of talking about his art. Being ill it is not the only notable thing about him. I tried to sort them and keep the healt issues at least in their own sections...Warrington (talk) 11:09, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

His Height

He was realy 4ft 11 inches, not 5ft. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.161.168.165 (talk) 00:39, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Hypertrophy?

The evidence for genital hypertrophy seems indirect, or urban legend, unless someone has a good, primary source. On the other hand, several sources mention that he had a nickname of "teapot", based on short stature and long, er, "spout." That's indirect, but indicative, I suppose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigmac31 (talk • contribs) 20:57, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

References

Some of the links are 404 pages or very commercial or more or less out of order. Who is able to examine these links?

External links

I would add the link to the biographie of Lautrec made by the Musee Toulouse Lautrec in Albi and will be find here Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec Biography of a many-sided artist by the Musee Toulouse Lautrec in Albi. Comment added by Gallery-of-art (talk) 4 Avril 2011

The second one is a link to the Museum Toulouse Lautrec Musee Toulouse Lautrec in Albi. Comment added by Gallery-of-art (talk) 5 April 2011

Done...Modernist (talk) 23:00, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Photo with "Cheret"

The page on the Moulin Rouge has a photo with the same subject as the one on this page, consisting of T-L and another man looking at a poster. This page says it is Jules Chéret, another famous poster designer, but the other page says it is the assistant to the manager of the Moulin Rouge. So who is it? Helixer (hábleme) 20:47, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Another height question

There is no mention of his height on in the article. Is there some reason why it isn't? 02:49, 25 March 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.179.13.132 (talk)

Sorry

The father's name is correct as it added, sorry for reverting it first. Zoe is also correct. Hafspajen (talk) 23:41, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Parental birthdays

Details that don't serve the reader in any way are better left out, and it's hard for me to imagine why an ordinary reader needs the date, month, and year of birth and death for Toulouse-Lautrec's mother and father. If we had a RS that said Toulouse-Lautrec's father was born at 7:09 am on an overcast day, our article wouldn't need that either. It's distracting because it's so unexpected and useless.

The first line reads, "Henri Marie Raymond de Toulouse-Lautrec-Monfa was born at the Hotel du Bosc in Albi, Tarn in the Midi-Pyrénées region of France..." This covers his birthplace adequately; we don't need to know the exact date the Hotel du Bosc was built, the name of the architect, or which room Lautrec was born in. This article is about the artist, not the building, and not his parents.

At Wikipedia:Writing better articles, we are advised: "If you want to peruse some of Wikipedia's finest articles, have a look at Wikipedia:Featured articles". I scrolled through the list and selected a few at random to see how they handle parental vital dates: Jean Bellette, Ima Hogg, James B. Longacre, André Kertész, Henry Moore, Edmund Sharpe, Charles Darwin, Alfred Russel Wallace, Marcus Ward Lyon, Jr., James Bryant Conant, John Brooke-Little, Abu Nidal, James G. Blaine, Carsten Borchgrevink. Not one of them had even birth/death years of parents, much less full dates. Ima Hogg had birth/death years for siblings, which is reasonable, but nothing for parents. Her father was notable and has his own article, but his dates are not in Ima's bio. Darwin's father was notable and his dates are found in Robert Darwin, but not in Charles Darwin. Is there a good reason for this article to depart from the encyclopedic norm in this matter? Ewulp (talk) 01:28, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Just the headings on their own are interesting

Life... Disability... Paris London! ... Alcoholism Death ART

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Hypertrophied genitals.

The word ‘reported’ in “he is reported to have had hypertrophied genitals” seems inappropriate as that implies a serious contemporary published reference. More accurate would be ‘rumored’. BashBrannigan (talk) 06:27, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Spongebob

The Spongebob quote is typographically incorrect. Squidward does not say "too loose, Lautrec"; he says, "Toulouse-Lautrec". The joke is that the first syllable of the artist's surname fits with the anaphora of the previous lines, and there is a parody of a Toulouse-Lautrec work in the background. GregorMcGee (talk) 07:12, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

The circus prints 52 to 100 value lithographs

Does anyone know where I can get a estimated value on henri de toulouse the circus prints? Or direct me to where i can go to get this info. They are numbered and are not copies or re prints. Thank you in advance 2603:8000:1500:9C3E:3864:16FD:C3B3:DCEA (talk) 16:29, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

please add

Please add Broadway musical to pop culture section 2600:4040:254D:600:C5B0:326A:DF9:3DAB (talk) 12:56, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I am proposing that Count Alphonse de Toulouse-Lautrec Montfa, for Toulouse-Lautrec's father, be merged into this page per WP:BIOFAMILY. The information doesn't appear to be incorrect (although the sources are not exactly high-quality,_ but I don't think it warrants a separate page. Tryin to make a change :-/ 08:46, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Merge to the Early life section. बिनोद थारू (talk) 01:29, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Keep separate. "He's Henri Toulouse-Lautrec's father" was not my basis for making the article. I actually learned about Alphonse before Henri! On his own merits, he is "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded" (Wikipedia:Notability (people)). He received nontrivial, significant coverage in the sources listed. He is also clearly an unusual person, with an eccentric personality. I think plenty of people would find him (a melodramatic, boisterous count who, for example, wore bizarre outfits to shock high-society acquaintances for fun) interesting. HenryMP02 (talk) 07:50, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep separate per above. Johnbod (talk) 17:55, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
• Keep separate, notable topic. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:16, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate the father is scarcely as notable a personage as the son, but I see no evidence over more than 20 years as a user that Wikipedia standards for notability are quite THAT harsh. I can't imagine we would struggle to find similar personages given not only their own pages but more information. In fact, more info on the father might be interesting. If anything, I would be concerned that the exclusion of Alphonse as insufficiently notable is potentially an aspect of the site's increasing presentist bias in the past decade. A personage whose sole significance is as a social 'character', as Alphones might be, but who flourished in this century, might have a ten page-equivalent article. Random noter (talk) 03:05, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Comte

The lede opens with the title comte (count) to his name, however, I thought he never held that title as he predeceased his father. — al-Shimoni (talk) 07:49, 21 February 2024 (UTC)