Talk:Glacier mass balance

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5/20/2011 Can we a table of World Glacier Mass balance for select years, 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010? Detailed by continent if possible, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by California-View (talk • contribs) 02:04, 21 May 2011 (UTC) This is quite a nice article but it isn't about glacier dynamics!. Its about glacier mass balance. Glacier dynamics, to a glacio, definitely means the mechanisms and underlying equations of how glaciers move... Glen's flow law [1] and such William M. Connolley 21:43, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

What would be a better title? I'm happy to change it; I'm not remotely a glaciologist or climatologist, and was just borrowing the section title of Glacier retreat. Or alternately, is it possible to expand this article to cover its title? If so, what needs to be included? Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 22:43, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I think Glacier mass balance would be best, and being Bold I've done it. Glacier dynamics doesn't fit well with mass balance, I think (I'm not a glacio either, but I talk to them over coffee sometimes). Now to fix some redirects... William M. Connolley 22:54, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Nice job...that was fast...this is exactly what was needed and a brief summary of this data in the Glacier retreat article is most appropriate.--MONGO 01:16, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Aaaghh! Ignore a few of the recent revisions. I accidentally pasted in my in-progress changes to Glacier retreat. But it's fixed now, so other than a weird change history, the article is fine. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 05:02, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I do not think this needs to be like glacier retreat looking at every geographic location and reviewing all the data. Instead I thought the focus should be on methods, global results and key results from a few long term extensive program. Three are briefly noted already. The others will be on the USGS, Swedish work on Storglacier and the Austrians on Hinteriesferner and the Canadians in the Arctic. I want to create a history of mass balance measurement too. Peltoms 15:32, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

That sounds good to me. I think it would be nice to add an illustration or two of techniques, if such can be found. Walter Siegmund (talk) 17:48, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The technique pictures have been added and I have added all but the Canadian Arctic section. I do no want to get into more detail really. It is simple and straightforward now I think. Peltoms 21:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The content looks good to me, but I will try to read it more closely in a few days. I think the illustrations are splendid. Thank you for adding them. So many of the techniques of modern science are too arcane to be easily understood by most readers. It is exciting to have a partial exception to this rule. Best wishes, Walter Siegmund (talk) 22:23, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Sometimes in science though rarely acknowledged less technology can yield good results. We always look for the easy-physcially method and science thinks more technology=more accuracy. But in this case it does not.Peltoms 13:58, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Failed GA

This article failed the GA noms due to excessive bulleted lists and POV that reflects the Earth's northern hemisphere. Feel free to renominate this article when these problems have been addressed. Tarret 23:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

There are no bulleted lists remaining in this article. Unfortunately the southern hemisphere issue cannot be well resolved. There is only one nation with a sufficiently long mass balance program to be noted and that is Bolivia now included. There are many northern hemisphere programs left out for the same reason. Peltoms (talk) 17:49, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

This article fails to mention glacial mass increase in Antarctica during the period of glacial mass decrease discussed in the article. As Antarctic & Greenland represent 97% of the world's total glacial area http://nsidc.org/data/dems/datasets.html#antarctica, discussing the remaining 3% in such detail represents bad science bordering on global warming propaganda. The area of Antarctica is approximately 14.4 million sq.km. Greenland covers 2.2 million sq.km. The NSIDC estimates total world glacier area (except for Greenland & Antarctica) as only 0.5 million sq.km http://www.nsidc.org/sotc/glacier_balance.html . Satellite data is only now being accumulated and evaluated http://www.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca/radar/spaceborne/radarsat1/action/int/ant/glaciers_e.php . Therefore, in the absence of scientific data on polar glacial mass, reports on changes in temperate zone glaciers is misleading at best. I would rate this article somewhat below a "C" for incompleteness and inaccuracy ftp://sidads.colorado.edu/pub/DATASETS/NOAA/G01130/ .

Readers should be cautioned that the article contains little of scientific value. Olsonjohn4 (talk) 22:59, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

It is obvious Olsonjohn4 is no scientist. This article is a concise and thorough description of mass balance programs that exist and report glacier mass balance to the most respected glacier fluctuation data collection agency in the world the WGMS. Glacier mass balance is measured not ice sheet mass balance. No attempt is made here to evaluate the ice sheets. The data is not misleading it is an accurate assessment of glacier change in recent decades.Peltoms (talk) 22:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC) Numerous studies in the last year have all indicated that both the Greenland Ice Sheet and Antarctica are losing significant mass. These studies have relied on different techniques to arrive at the same conclusion. This is not the page that examines these issues as it is focussed on alpine glaciers, but just to clarify the inaccurate statements above.

Top importance

In assessing the importance of this article for WikiProject Glaciers, I feel it is of top importance, due mainly for educational benefits. Understanding what glacier mass balance means, the discussions on equalibrium and related issues is of primary concern to anyone interested in glaciers, and especially for explaining why they advance or retreat. I'm open to discussion on this matter and others may feel that this isn't aa article of top level importance to the project.--MONGO 19:12, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree. It is a crucial concept in the study of glaciers and relevant to understanding the role of glaciers as climate change sentinels. --Walter Siegmund (talk) 19:55, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

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Expansion of the article

I'm hoping to expand the article somewhat, using Benn & Evans (2010) Glaciers & Glaciation; Paterson (1981) The Physics of Glaciers; and Knight (1999) Glaciers. The article doesn't go into detail about the calculations needed to determine mass balance, or give much in the way of discussion of the relevant terms. Knight, for example, gives about 30 definitions in his discussion, and I think some of those would be useful here. There's no discussion of vertical balance profiles.

I'm not an expert, just an interested layman, so if others would like to get involved or critique my edits that would be great.

I also think the list of mass balance studies is too long for the article as it stands. A separate article on mass balance studies might be worthwhile, but that can wait till the rest of the article is expanded. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:27, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Shooting an email to User:Peltoms in case he is not around might be worth a shot too.--MONGO 23:33, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion; if he doesn't answer the ping I'll email him once I've done enough to be worth reviewing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:47, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Some sources not yet included that I don't want to forget about:

• Anonymous, 1969, "Mass-balance terms", Journal of Glaciology, 8(52), 3–7.
• Cogley et al (2010) "Glossary of glacier mass balance and related terms"
• Hooke (2005, 2nd ed) Principles of Glacier Mechanics
• Hubbard, Bryn; Glasser, Neil (2005). Field Techniques in Glaciology and Glacial Geomorphology. Chichester, UK: Wiley. ISBN 978-0-470-84427-4.
• Zemp et al (2009) "Six decades of glacier mass balance observations"
• Also see the list of references at the end of this outline.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:57, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Confusion between Mass balance and surface mass balance

Hi ! There is a discrepancy between this page and a reliable source [2]: Mass balance and Surface mass balance are not synonymous. I don't correct myself because not fluent enough in English. Yours.