Talk:German toponymy

exotic

What about more-or-less modern 'exotic' names like Kalifornien, Brasilien, Croustillier?

These are in the German Exonyms article; some (e.g. places in the US) that are missing there can be found in the corresponding article of the German Wikipedia. Edwing 23:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

All three are names of villages in Germany (K. and B. in Schleswig-Holstein, C. in Brandenburg). I believe s/he meant those villages rather than places overseas. Alianomo (talk) 10:07, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Prehistoric/medieval

Originally the article had subsections for German names "from "prehistoric times" and "from medieval times." There was no reference or explanation why some suffixes were considered "prehistoric" in origin and the others "medieval". I therefore combined the two into one category Olessi 20:09, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Sometimes it can be established archeologically how old a place is. If the place is prehistoric, it can be assumed that the name is prehistoric too, since places rarely change their names, unless there is a good reason to believe otherwise. For some places it is known that they were medieval foundations, so it is likely that their name is also of medieval origin. I added the reference. Chl 01:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Magna Germania tribes

I added "citation needed" for the statement that "-owe, -au and -gowe, and -gau" were used by Slavs because of earlier settlement by Germanic tribes. Olessi 14:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Moved to talk page since no reference was provided: "Today's existence of wide-spread German(ic) -owe, -au and -gowe, and -gau shows that even when the first Slavs came into Magna Germania, they and the rest of the Germanic people continued the old Germanic names. The Western Slavic people, who were first in Greater Moravia, then Bohemia, later Poland (all previously territory of Magna Germania), also took up the Germanic place designations, such as -wig (-vik or vik) as in German : Wikinger (English: Vikings)." Olessi 15:19, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Languages

The German word for city hall, Rathaus, was Polonized into ratus.

This surely is correct, but does it belong here? I'd say "city hall" is a designator rather than a "proper" place name in the sense of "California". If noone objects, I'm going to delete this some time soon since it doesn't fit the subject of the article. Edwing 23:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

History

History of the German language area should be included only as a short explaination where needed to understand the placename ethymology. Especially in the Slavic origin subsection, no "more complete" or "more correct" history-related comments or examples are needed. I reduced that to concentrate on the placenames again. Skäpperöd (talk) 05:36, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

The history section is not needed in this form. They were many Germanic languages and dialects. Unfified German language is a new thing. To be correct the article should be renamed to Germanic rather then German terminology. --Molobo (talk) 14:38, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

The history section is not needed in this form. - Which history section? There is none.

They were many Germanic languages and dialects. Unfified German language is a new thing. To be correct the article should be renamed to Germanic rather then German terminology - No need for that. The Germanic origins are presented within the German origins, as only those are covered that were predecessors of German. Skäpperöd (talk) 18:38, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

-ach

Is it possible, that -ach in some cases might also be derived from the slavic locative plural ending -ach or -ah? -- 80.109.224.73 (talk) 19:42, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

BERLIN as VENDIC (SLAVONIC) TOPONYME

BER-LIN (The symbol of Berlin was Vendic Bear) name comes from Venetic (Slavic) BERLOG(Bear's lair -log / legnit' - "to lay down - german "legen unter". Log also as "forest") - but the "bear" in slavonic is "med-ved" ("the one who knows" - Ved - Vedat' (VEDA is "knowledge") honey )

This was once all Vendic territory, before arrival of Goths (later Germans) and history was rewritten (including Rurik's biography. Russian "pagan" libraries burned to the ground in times of "holy roman empire") Goths adopted even Vendic names of tribes; example "Ostro-Goths" ("sharp goths").

Rename to Germanic placename etymology?

I propose to rename this article, so that typonyms of other Germanic languages can be included, similar to the Germanic name article. Many of the German toponyms have very similar counterparts in other Germanic languages. For example:

• au, aue has Dutch aa like in Breda, Aa
• bach has Dutch beek like in Lembeek, Schaarbeek, Sint-Jans-Molenbeek
• berg had Dutch berg and bergen like in Grimbergen, Kortenberg, Geraardsbergen
• furt has English ford like in Oxford, Dutch voorde like in Vilvoorde, Scandinavian fjorden in Oslofjorden
• heim has Dutch em, hem and gem like in Zaventem, Nossegem
• roth has Dutch rode like in St-Genesius-Rode, Haasrode
• kirch has Dutch kerk like in Duinkerke
• etc.

Moreover, the article is already partially referring to Low German, Dutch, Norwegian and English counterparts. Morgengave (talk) 19:53, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

By all means start a new article - that would be very welcome - but I think it would be very unhelpful to rename this one as the basis for that new article. That would mean an article which just concentrates on the commonalities, whereas an article on each country/language is better to bring out the specific characteristics. People look at this article not because they want to know about Germanic but because they want to know about the current placenames in German-speaking Europe. In any case, please do not rename this article without a formal vote. --Pfold (talk) 21:06, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Sure, actually that's equally fine for me, but just to be clear that would mean a duplication (or at least a large overlap) as most toponyms are extremely similar between all Germanic languages. I make this proposal to avoid later discussions. Let's wait for the input of some other persons. Morgengave (talk) 22:05, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

The reasons for the large overlap is partly a shortcoming of the current article, which your proposal certainly highlights, namely the concentration on toponyms of Germanic origin. Where's the stuff on Celtic and Slavic elements that a truly comprehensive article on German toponyms would contain, but that wouldn't have any counterpart in Scandinavia? --Pfold (talk) 09:38, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

-schütz

The list of German postcodes contains 8 placenames with the suffix "-schütz", all in Sachsen or Thüringen, but I can't find any info on this. --Pfold (talk) 15:39, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Halle

I've been told that Hall, Halle, Hallein and Hallstadt are from the old Celtic word for 'salt'. Can anyone find an authoritative source to back this up? LTC (Ret.) David J. Cormier (talk) 13:59, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

There is a MHG word hal, which according to Lexer means "Salzquelle, Salzwerk". Presumably this is ultimately from Celtic (since the GMc word for salt starts with s-). I think the problem is (a) deciding in individual cases whether a name is from this salt word or from "Halle" (="hall") and then (b) if the placename is itself originally Celtic or is Gmc using this previously borrowed word. Have a look at Hallstatt – In eisenzeitlicher Tradition? - no time to read it myself at the moment, but looks like a citable source. --Pfold (talk) 18:38, 12 February 2019 (UTC)