Talk:Gala Dalí

Latest comment: 1 year ago by TheBlinkster in topic Alleged dispensation by the Pope


Dr. Gokhan Sayram; 23 October 2003;

I removed this from the original version. Andres 23:42, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Eluard or DaliEdit

As I write this, the article is at "Gala Eluard". I note the book "The Shameful lif of Salvador Dalí" refers to her as "Gala Dalí". She was married to Dalí longer than she was to Eluard. A google search shows 692 hits for "Gala Eluard", 776 hits for "Gala Dali", and 2,120 hits for "Gala Dalí". I'm going to move the article to "Gala Dalí". -- Infrogmation 19:44, 11 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  1. Are we certain she changed her name into Dali? Spaniards don't change her surnames when they get married and I'm surprised she did.Oconel 18:16, 15 January 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Helena or Galina?Edit

There is quite a bit of confusion (especially among Russian-language sources) as to what her first name actually was. Can someone provide a link to an authoritative source on this matter? ---Vladimir V. Korablin (talk) 16:32, 22 February 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Correct birth name?Edit

Ian Gibson. in his Dali biog "Shameful Life of Salvador Dali" (page 220) calls her Helena Diakanoff Devulina - not Elena Ivanovna Diakonova --Rrose Selavy 23:06, 23 July 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We now have yet another version of her original name - the third at least! Since no one else can actually provide a version of her original name with a citation from a reliable source , and not just a google link count, I've now changed it to the version I mentioned previously from the Gibson Dali biography - Unfortunately I'm not sure at the moment how to actually add a citation reference in the article itself. Rrose Selavy 15:49, 2 September 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The correct name is ELENA IVANOVNA DIAKONOVA, the one that is listed in Gala's Russian diploma of elementary school teacher gradutation issued by the M.G. Brukhonenko Female Institute of Moscow in 1915. It adds also that she was born in Kazan on August 26, 1894 - Julian calendar which corresponds to September 7, 1894 of the Gregorian calendar. Her religion was pravoslavian and she was the daughter of a high-ranking officer of the Russian administration. (Source: Article 'Gala Dalí: los secretos de una musa' by J.J. Navarro Arisa, "El País Semanal", Madrid, Spain, August 14, 1994.)--Orlando F 16:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Category: Russian modelsEdit

I've reverted the edit that added this article to the category Russian models. All the members of that category are fashion/glamour/porno models. In my opinion, it's not helpful to readers of Wikipedia to group artists' models with the other types of models because the work they do is so different. I've said my piece; if anyone feels strongly that "Russian models" is appropriate then they can add it again and I shan't revert it. Charivari 00:53, 23 July 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Charivary, I wonder why you think category "Russian models" is inappropriate ? Gala was born Elena Ivanovna Diakonova in Russia and posed as a model for Dali. Sure she was more then a model for Dali but she was both Russian and a model. Am I wrong ? Thanks Abune
Hi, thanks for your reply. My problem is with the definition of the word "model". The term is generally understood nowadays to mean a fashion model, glamour model or "porno" model. When referring to an artist's model it is necessary to use the full expression "artist's model" in order to avoid a misunderstanding. In effect, the meaning of the word "model" has changed over the past several decades.
The category Russian models, as I said in my comment, contains only fashion/glamour/porno models. All the subcategories of category Models appear to be the same. I consider the work and lives of, and the nature of readers' interest in, artist's models to be sufficiently different that including artists' models within the Models hierarchy is unhelpful to users of the encyclopaedia. It would be better if there were another term to describe what artists' models do, but I can't think of one. At the very least, artists' models are always going to be a small subset of "models", so including them in that category would not be helpful to users seeking other examples of models of either type.
The Gala Dalí article is a member of another category, Artists' models, which is not currently subdivided because there are so few members of the category. This category is not within the Models hierarchy but instead within Visual arts occupations.
If you really want to add Gala Dalí to Russian models I won't revert the edit again, but I do think it's inappropriate.
I'll copy this discussion to the talk page of Gala Dalí in case others want to add their thoughts. Charivari 00:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree that it's inappropriate - we shouldn't list everyone who sits for a famous artist. That's different from "modelling" as a profession or for paid work.
--Rrose Selavy 17:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Cite urgently needed for harsh allegationEdit

"Gala was dosing Dalí with a dangerous cocktail of tranquilizers and amphetamines that ultimately caused the artist's neurological downfall." - If somebody can't very rapidly provide an excellent cite for this allegation, we should delete it. -- 17:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I agree. I've removed a section. Rrose Selavy

Was Gala deaf?Edit

A recent documentary on British TV: 'Dirty Dali: A Private View', Channel 4, Sunday (I think 4 June 2007) suggested that Gala was deaf and had difficulty conversing:

"... Sewell first struggled to converse with the Spanish surrealist and his deaf nymphomaniac wife while each sat in their own eggshell. "

It is of intense interest to me - was Gala actually deaf or just a bit hard of hearing? Did she know any sign language? I work with several deaf artists, and we are interested in this topic.

If anyone can confirm details, I will add a short sentence to the article on Gala. RedTomato 13:56, 22 June 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

From Dali's aubiog, she doesn't seem to have been deaf when she was younger at any rate; I don't know if she was completely deaf by the point refered to in the film or if its an overstatement. Good question. -- Infrogmation 16:55, 22 June 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Spelling error on ref sectionEdit

Item 1. graduation

Someone wrote this in the articleEdit

Don't know how long it's been there for, and no idea who wrote it. Just though I'd move it here to Discussion instead of just leaving it in the article.

"Gala had a relationship with rock singer Jeff Fenholt[4] She lavished him with gifts, including Dalí's paintings and a million dollar home on Long Island.[citation needed] - Jeff Fenholt continues to deny that there was any relationship that he had with Gala Dali. There is no proof to substantiate that any of this is the truth." SunsetFlare (talk) 17:05, 15 July 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

C-class articleEdit

I have fixed up some problems with this article, but it still needs a lot of work to reach a B-class rating, which it doesn't deserve at present There is no infobox, and scant or missing coverage of her life for extended periods. There is more info about some aspects of Gala in the Dalí article, which isn't saying much. Her relationships with Dalí and others were definitely non-conventional, and her dominant attitude must have had an effect on those near her. There are some unusual claims about Gala which probably are true, but which need much better referencing from multiple sources. There is quite a bit of work needed to fill in the gaps, before this article can qualify for anything better than a C-class rating. Can anybody help out? Reify-tech (talk) 19:56, 17 June 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Alleged dispensation by the PopeEdit

Regarding the Dalis' marriage in the Catholic Church in 1958, the article contains the following sentence: "They needed to receive a special dispensation by the Pope because Gala had been previously married and she was a believer (not Catholic, but was an Orthodox Christian)."

This either needs to be reliably sourced, or removed, as it is doubtful that a "special dispensation by the Pope" was either needed or granted. (The article on Salvador Dali does not appear to contain this statement.) I myself tried to find a source for this statement, which is currently reposted all over the Internet, but none of the web sources appear to be reliable, and it seems likely many of them got the information from this Wikipedia article. I also searched some news archives for articles regarding the 1958 marriage, and I have not found any contemporary English langauge source such as a newspaper reporting that a "dispensation by the Pope" was needed.

Reasons why the statement seemed doubtful to me:

1) By the time the Dalis married in 1958, Gala's former husband Paul Eluard had been dead for several years, as he died in 1952, and his death was publicly known so there was no question as to whether he might still be alive. The Catholic Church therefore would have regarded Gala as a widow who was free to marry. It is possible that Dali may have discussed his marital situation with the Pope at some point before 1952, as the article on him mentions that he met with the Pope in 1949 and discussed his marriage, but the issue of Gala's previous marriage would still have become moot when her previous husband died in 1952.

2) To the extent that some type of dispensation might have been needed due to Gala being a non-Catholic Christian (she was Russian Orthodox according to reliable sources), this type of dispensation for a "mixed marriage" would typically have been granted by the local ordinary, in other words the Catholic bishop of the area where the marriage was to take place. The Pope is the Bishop of Rome, however the couple did not have their Catholic marriage in Rome but rather in Spain in the Sanctuary of the Angels, which is located within the Roman Catholic Diocese of Girona, so the bishop of Girona, not the Pope, would have handled any dispensation for a mixed marriage. TheBlinkster (talk) 22:28, 20 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A source for this is The Dali Legacy How an Eccentric Genius Changed the Art World and Created a Lasting Legacy By Christopher Heath Brown and Jean-Pierre Isbouts, which mentions that Dali met with Pope Pius XII in order to get the pontiff's approval for his painting "The Madonna of Port Lligat" and also a license to marry Gala in a church ceremony.--Jburlinson (talk) 14:03, 15 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the information. Was this the meeting between Dali and the Pope in 1949? If so, it would have made sense to ask the Pope about a dispensation then, because Gala's former husband was still alive (died 1952). However, by the time the couple actually married in 1958, they would not have needed it. Does the source contain a) the date of the meeting with the Pope and b) a confirmation that the Pope actually granted whatever dispensation was sought? Because he might very well have refused or said he would take it under advisement for a time. As it is, I have asked this question of canonists and other experts in the Church law and all are in agreement that it is making no sense to say that a dispensation was needed for Dali to marry a widow. TheBlinkster (talk) 17:57, 25 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]