Talk:Main Missile and Artillery Directorate

Shorter title?

The title for this article is really long. It should be shorter. Acronym?

There is GRAU redirect page. --jno 11:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but the title at the top of the page looks untidy, and is hard to read. "... of the Ministry of Defense of the Soviet Union" is certainly part of a formal title, and not the most commonly-used name. Главное ракетно-артиллерийское управление = Chief Directorate of Missiles and Artillery. If we want to be specific, why not Soviet Chief Directorate of Missiles and Artillery? —Michael Z. 2006-08-04 05:33 Z

cleanup?

Ok, folks. I'm a russian. Can anybody tell what is confusing here and how to cleanup the mere (long) list of examples to decode indicies? --jno 14:17, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Vandalized count

2 --jno 16:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Turn this into an article

Why not move the list to List of GRAU Indices, and start expanding this into an article about the agency? —Michael Z. 2006-08-04 05:36 Z

Maybe. Well, initially I've just attempted to clear some "common misconceptions", when all those strange-looking "names" were listed in the articles as "industry name", "development name", etc. Hence, the list was (and is) mainly an illustration of what the author may see and how he would have to classify that "names". --jno 11:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the good work, and this information should be easy to find. It's amazing how widely these "industrial designations" are misunderstood. I'm just thinking about future development because I found this article when looking for the place to link GAU. Cheers. —Michael Z. 2006-08-04 14:28 Z

It may worth the thoughts to think about creation of a Category:GRAU index (or whatever would fit it better), isn't it? --jno 10:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the utility of grouping articles this way. Wouldn't that category be approximately equivalent to category:Russian and Soviet artillery? And the contents of the category would be a mix of GRAU indexes and other names for things (SA-1 Guild would not appear as 5V7). —Michael Z. 2006-08-07 16:35 Z

Definetely no equiv to category:Russian and Soviet artillery. GRAU indicies are used much much more widely (see the list of examples - the widest range of different equipment, including, say, Buran shuttle). Theoretically, the back link page do the job :-) --jno 11:00, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Unclear language

The language in the item descriptions were difficult to clean up:

• 7S1
• 7U1
• 17P

Help from someone knowledgable in this topic would be great. --Adamrush 12:13, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

... of the Soviet Union?

Why "of the Soviet Union", and not "of the Russian Federation"? Aspecialy since in the agency's title in russian it does say "of the Russian Federation". I think that the article should be moved to "Main Agency of Missiles and Artillery of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation". --DimaY2K 05:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Move. The current title is an unwieldy, unauthorized translation. For the lack of an official or common one, we should stick to the common acronym, GRAU. Cf. NASA, NATO. Duja► 11:58, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

---

Main Agency of Missiles and Artillery of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation → GRAU — GRAU, currently a redirect, is the abbriviated name of this agency. It appears, through both more google search results, and the fact that more articles link to this page through the redirect than directly, that use of the shorter term GRAU, rather than the full name, is far more common, and thus the article should be called GRAU. I am also concerned that the current title is too long, but this is not my main point. —GW_Simulations_{User Page | Talk} 17:35, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Oppose Abbreviations are meant to simplify, not to overrun the name of the entity they stand for. The redirect does its job well, there's no need to change the name of this article which, lengthy or not, is the complete, accurate and encyclopedic designation of its subject. Húsönd 01:03, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Overrun what name. If you google the title of this article, eliminating Wikipedia and it's mirrors, you will get 1 result, which isn't even relevant[1]. Searching for "GRAU", using the word missile as a qualifier returns 46,700 results[2]. Per WP:NC, the acronym should be used. --GW_Simulations_{User Page | Talk} 07:05, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I did a google search eliminating Wikipedia and mirrors and I still find some "Main Missile and Artillery Agency". Above all, "GRAU" is far from being as known and widespread among English speakers as NASA, or even KGB, so I still think the full name is more appropriate for this article.--Húsönd 17:10, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Please can you provide links to the results support this point of view. --GW_Simulations_{User Page | Talk} 17:19, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Designators reflect the designer's first initial

What is missing here is an explanation that the letter in the second position of system designators indicates the first initial of the designer. For example, 8K98 indicates the designer was Korolev. Ya = Yangel', Ch = Chelomey, and N= Nadiradze — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwgoldb (talk • contribs) 17:43, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Designators reflect the designer's first initial

What is missing here is an explanation that the letter in the second position of system designators indicates the first initial of the designer. For example, 8K98 indicates the designer was Korolev. Ya = Yangel', Ch = Chelomey, and N= Nadiradze

Gwgoldb (talk) 17:46, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

• You're wrong. Proton was designed by Chelomei, but has the index 8K82. Korolev's Soyuz rocket has the index 11A511. --W. D. Graham _{(previously GW)} 17:53, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Are these GRAU indices?

The numbers given to Russian/Soviet ABM radar seem to fit the pattern of GRAU indices but some seem not to meet the designation scheme. Are these GRAU indices? Thanks Secretlondon (talk) 01:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

• 5N79 - Daryal radar
• 90N6 - Daryal-UM radar
• 5N15 - Dnestr radar
• 5N15M - Dnestr-M radar
• 5N86 - Dnepr radar
• 5N77 - Duga radar
• 5U83 - Daugava receiver
• 77Ya-6M - Voronezh-M radar
• 77Ya-6DM - Voronezh-DM radar
• 70M6 - Volga radar

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