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Notice of translation & copying within WikipediaEdit

This article has been translated from De.wiki article Franz Kurowski, by user Kudpung (talk · contribs) and copyedited by K.e.coffman (talk · contribs). Some content was moved from Der Landser and HIAG, please see the history of these articles for attribution.

Additional contributions are welcome. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:43, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Potential sourcesEdit

K.e.coffman (talk) 23:40, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Having read the Google excerpts of it and some of the Dutch original, Benda-Beckmann's book is probably essential reading for anyone doing in-depth research into Kurowski (and any similar writers). The video of the de Graaf interview also reveals much more to he native or near-native listener of German about Kurowski's character than sub-titles can convey. Kurowsk's speech and mannerisms are not those of academia or serious researchers. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:05, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
Thank you again for your work on this. With the article at hand, I'm now able to find more English language sources on Kurowski. For example, he's mentioned in these two works:
When I used to search just be Kurowski's name, all I was getting in Google books search were his own books. I will add these as time allows. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:22, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Parking spotEdit

Parking this content here as it comes from fringe sources. It may be notable that he's being mentioned in the far right publications, but not sure if belongs in the article as is. It would be better if WP:RS discussed Kurowski's reception in such circles:

  • In 1984 Ostpreußenblatt (now the Preußische Allgemeine Zeitung, a right-wing publication) reviewed Kurowski's Luftbrücke Stalingrad: Die Tragödie der Luftwaffe und der 6. Armee ("Airlift Stalingrad: The tragedy of the Air Force and the 6th Army") published in the extreme right-wing publisher Kurt Vowinckel Verlag [de] as: "Franz Kurowski [provides] a shocking, authentic report on the of the German Luftwaffe operation and the mass deaths of German soldiers in that Russian city. The downfall of the 6th army in Stalingrad was just as tragic as the desperate attempts to supply Stalingrad by air."[1]
  • Germany's defeat: Revisionist historian Keith Stimely profiled Kurowski's book Bedingungslose Kapitulation: Inferno in Deutschland 1945 (Unconditional surrender: Inferno in Germany in 1945), published in 1983 by the extreme right Druffel-Verlag, in the historical revisionist Journal of Historical Review. The Journal is the publication of the Institute for Historical Review, the world's leading organization of Holocaust denial. He described the work as "general history [...] of the events surrounding the capitulation of Germany, including the aftermath of occupation, forced expulsion, reeducation, denazification, forced repatriation, and war crimes trials".[2]

References

  1. ^ http://archiv.preussische-allgemeine.de/1984/1984_06_09_23.pdf S. 11.
  2. ^ Stimely, Keith (2002). "National Socialism and Fascism: Recent Books in Brief". Journal of Historical Review. Castle Hill Publishers. 21.

These sources do not appear to be used for citations:

  • S. Schreurs: Franz Kurowski. Ein Verzeichnis seiner Bücher. Dortmund 1973.
  • Autorenkreis Ruhr-Mark (Hrsg.): Franz Kurowski. 60 Lebensjahre, 30 Jahre Dämonie der schöpferischen Einfälle. 1983.
  • G. Holtz: Franz Kurowski. Schöpfer des Sachbuchs vom Kriege. Autorenkreis Ruhr-Mark, 1983.
  • Alois Klotzbücher (Hrsg.): Literarisches Leben in Dortmund. Vereinigung von Freunden der Stadt- und Landesbibliothek Dortmund, Dortmund 1984, S. 214 f., 226 f.

K.e.coffman (talk) 05:53, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Sample from Panzer AcesEdit

I decided to satisfy my curiosity and got Panzer Aces (Vol. I) from the library. Opening on a random page, I got:

The SS divisions disembarked east of Kharkov. Among the units was the the 13th Heavy Panzer Company of the 1st SS-Panzer Regiment under SS Captain Kling.[1] [Editors note: this must be the regiment that I've frequently encountered red-linked in related articles].

"The place is called Merefa. Behind us is Kharkov. The Russians will attack here and then try to encircle Kharkov."

"Nonsense, sir!" Shouted SS Sergeant First Class Hoflinger, a section leader in Wittmann's unit.

SS Staff Sgt Georg Lotzsch, known to all as the "Panzer General", because he knew everything about the Tiger tank, shook his head.

"There aren't enough of us, comrades. We must have escorting infantry and ..."

"Get ready, captain!" the executive officer called from the company commander's Tiger.

"All right comrades, everyone stays where they are and halts the enemy. Meyer and his motorcycle troops are up ahead. If we take off, then he's had it!"

References

  1. ^ Cpt Kling happnes to be an SS officer currently being considered for deletion.

You get the idea. The book contains no bibliography and no footnotes. There's no preface to explain what the material is based on. It reads like a novel, rather than a historical study. K.e.coffman (talk) 20:58, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

"Historical fiction", maybe? Kierzek (talk) 21:14, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Unused sources in a GA nomineeEdit

There are a bunch of uncited sources in the Bibliography, including Safrian, Lenhard, MacKenzie, PAZ (whatever that is), Neitzel, Raudvere et al, and both Zaloga books. On first glance a critical reader might think there was a bit of bibliography padding going on, but I'm sure that's not the case. If they aren't being used, I suggest putting them in a Further reading section if they are actually relevant to Kurowski, or delete them if not. I am a bit puzzled by this, as you have shown in your editing of other articles that it is your view that if sources aren't being used, they should be deleted. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:00, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks -- I removed the unused sources. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:02, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Coatrack of gurusEdit

I removed the list of gurus as they are not relevant to this chap. There is no analysis of how they are like Kurowski (or not), so it is just a pointy coatrack of names promoting Smelser and Davies perspective of them. Say what they say about Kurowski. The other names are out of scope. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:05, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

I still consider this a bit COATRACKy, as two of the authors have been added back in without any explanation of why they are relevant to Kurowski. To me, they are out of scope for this article. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:36, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

GA ReviewEdit

This review is transcluded from Talk:Franz Kurowski/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sagecandor (talk · contribs) 17:47, 21 December 2016 (UTC)


I'll do this one. Sagecandor (talk) 17:47, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Failed "good article" nominationEdit

This article has failed its Good article nomination. This is how the article, as of December 21, 2016, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?:
  • Some of these are recommendations, all together viewed in their totality they make the article unfortunately not quite yet up to good article level.
  • Judging by the overall size of the article, per WP:LEAD, the intro could be expanded a bit more.
  • There are several sentences throughout the article that are a bit too long or make too much usage overall in the article as a whole from commas and semicolons.
  • This suggests a need for additional copy editing from a couple third party editors that were previously uninvolved in the state of the article.
  • Intro says: "Historians dismiss his works, ..." can include names of a few historians and their particular points in the intro.
  • I see nothing about early life in the intro.
  • "Work for Der Landser" - this section could be expanded.
  • "Aces series" - no need for large blockquote in this section, can be removed or paraphrased and reduced.
  • "U-boat war" - section doesn't need the highlighted region drawn to the one particular blockquote, can be merged into text and trimmed as a shorter quote.
  • Overall in the entire article, bit too much use of quotations, can be trimmed down or paraphrased. Especially evident in section, "Authenticity and accuracy".
2. Verifiable?: Good job with in-line citations and references format throughout the article, nice work here.
3. Broad in coverage?: I would think that "Life and education" should be retitled to "Early life and education". This section is a bit skimpy, judging by the size of the overall article. Can be a bit more expanded upon.
4. Neutral point of view?:
  • Concerns about neutrality due to use of so many asserted fair use book covers as noted in image section below. This comes across as using fair use as a way to promote these works, as opposed to simply displaying them, once each, only IFF there is an existing article about the work itself, and only once in the article about those works, and no where else. Comes across as promotion and fails NPOV.
  • Concerns about NPOV due to problem highlighted by Peacemaker67 which is explained immediately below.
5. Stable?: I have significant concerns about this edit [1] by Peacemaker67. I agree with the edit itself. But it leads me to concerns both about NPOV tone, and the overall article. I checked the talk page and there was a helpful explanation by Peacemaker67, but no reply, which is concerning in this particular situation as would like to hear more feedback from Peacemaker67 as to if this particular issue was resolved, or if it is more reflective of the wider tone of the article as a whole.
6. Images?:
  • Article uses way too many fair use images that should all be removed. Images are generally not fair use as book covers in article about the author, but insteaad only in one article alone in article about the book itself. This is backed up by description at {{Non-free use rationale book cover}}.
  • At same time, article is lacking an image of the person himself. All images of the works should be removed, and instead add an image of the author, preferably free-use.
  • File:Der Landser by Franz Kurowski.jpg - should be removed and only used in one article about the work itself, Der Landser.
  • File:Panzer Aces by Franz Kurowski.jpg - image is asserted as fair use in THREE articles. NONE of them are about the work itself. Should all be removed, and only used as fair use IFF there were an article about the work itself, and only then in that one article.
  • File:Der Landser U-boat war by Franz Kurowski.jpg - only need the book cover for the article Der Landser, this image should be deleted as way too much fair use.
  • File:Der Luftkrieg über Deutschland by Franz Kurowski.jpg - would be fair use IFF in article about the work itself, but not about the author, and not in an article already with overusage of fair use assertions.

Main concerns include: Writing style, need for outside copy editors, failure of NPOV, minor unreplied to stability issue on the talk page, way way way too many fair use images used in article about the author that are book covers only to be used in articles about those books themselves per {{Non-free use rationale book cover}}.

When these issues are addressed, the article can be renominated. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to have it reassessed. Thank you for your work so far.— Sagecandor (talk) 21:08, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, but right now the article reads like propaganda, a hit-piece on the person of Franz Kurowski, aiming at disparaging him. 105.12.3.125 (talk) 23:09, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
Return to "Franz Kurowski" page.