Talk:Forza Italia

Social democracy and article's name

We only seem to have one source for this claim and it’s from 2008, i.e., 15-years-ago. Do we have other more recent sources that can support this claim? If not then I think it should be removed or at the very least contextualised to say this is a historical ideology of the party. Helper201 (talk) 09:39, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

This article is about a party which is defunct as of 2009, so of course there is no more recent references. As for the ideological description, whether that’s appropriate or not is another issue, but we should recognise somehow that the party had a significant amount of its parliamentarians come from the Italian Socialist Party.-- Autospark (talk) 09:44, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Autospark apologies, I mistook this for the current Forza Italia page. Maybe this page should be re-named to "Forza Italia (1994–2009)" so others don't also make this mistake? Helper201 (talk) 09:53, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

I oppose the move, FWIW. Certainly in that format.— Autospark (talk) 08:56, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

I also oppose the move, especially in that format. --Checco (talk) 12:53, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Autospark, Checco, Can you please both give a reason why you oppose this? Using this or another contextual title helps differentiate it in historical terms from today's party of the same name. Also, what other formats would you both prefer? Helper201 (talk) 19:23, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

"Forza Italia (1994)" would be more in line with similar cases. Anyway, I would like to keep the current name of the article: the historical Forza Italia was a large party, while the current one pales in comparison and could have a much shorter life. --Checco (talk) 20:04, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I agree with Helper201: the party was not social democratic, regardless of where its exponents came from. And the page should be renamed "Forza Italia (1994)" (actually I would never have divided the story of Forza Italia into two pages, the PdL was only a parenthesis in the history of Forza Italia, but that's another topic).--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 20:19, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Checco I'm afraid your personal like or dislike regarding retaining the current article name is not adequate reasoning for not allowing a page name change. Wikipedia:I just don't like it. The current iteration of Forza Italia has existed for almost 10 years and is the 5th largest political party in Italy by number of parliamentary seats. Predicating its longevity is original research. Also, having end dates is useful in this context. The current iteration is so-named "Forza Italia (2013)" due to there being no end date as its an on-going entity. It doesn't make sense to include a start date in brackets without the end date too when both are available. Helper201 (talk) 20:32, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, I don’t see a need to alter this page from its long-established title. Also, this party was the original, and we should demarcate the recreated party as separate with a date parentheses.-- Autospark (talk) 21:16, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Autospark Like Checco this isn't reasoning, whereas I have provided reasoning for wanting to change this. Helper201 (talk) 23:37, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I stand by User:Autospark's reasoning. There are two parties named "Forza Italia", but one was Italy's dominant political party from 1994 to its dissolution into the PdL in 2009. That is why I think "Forza Italia" should point here. Please also note that the article starts with "or the current Italian political party launched in 2013, see Forza Italia (2013)". A move of this article to "Forza Italia (1994)" and the transformation of "Forza Italia" into a disambiguation page would serve no good. Otherwise, there will be several articles pointing to the disambiguation instead of "Forza Italia (1994)". The move would be at best worthless, at worst detrimental. --Checco (talk) 20:09, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Strongly agree with the above.--Autospark (talk) 20:36, 22 August 2023 (UTC)