Talk:Enfield, London

Parts

I don't understand why two parts of Enfield are given an article, whereas the others are not? I refer to the fact that, on the map, there is the word Enfield using one size of lettering between all the others, which are shown in a similar, but smaller, size. The "others" are:

• Enfield Highway
• Enfield Lock
• Enfield Wash

Of Enfield Chase there is no sign, except for the tube station; yet it has an article (admittedly not saying anything beyond the fact that it exists!). None of the others do (apart of course from this one, which similarly doesn't mention any of the others). It does appear that few of the many people who appear on the history have taken note of the article which specifically says that all are one. This article leaves readers to suppose that Enfield Town stands quite isolated whereas it is in fact one large conurbation, as shown in that article, and ON THE MAP. Peter Shearan 17:45, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

This comment was made a while ago so is perhaps out of date. It is up to wiki users to create and add to articles relating to localities in Enfield. Rogwan 21:35, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Since this is an article on Enfield Town, surely the parliamentary constituencies of Enfield Southgate and Enfield Edmonton should not be in the table. Surely Enfield Town lies wholly within the constituency of Enfield North? Coyets 17:29, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Enfield Nightclub

There is no longer a nightclub alongside the A10 it was closed by the police.

Local youth organisations

I've removed this section as it doesn't help describe Enfield Town. It seemed to be being used to advertise the two organisations also. If the authors, would like this information included, I feel it would be best to briefly mention it on the Borough's page. Rogwan 21:35, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Intro

I don't know if anyone has any opinions on my changes to the lead paragraph - it seems a way of limiting the scope of the article without drawing contentious boundaries. I can't quite explain the sense I've used the word "historic", but it seemed more apt than any other.Ruskinmonkey (talk) 00:36, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

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Requested move 28 March 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Consensus that Enfield Town doesn't pass WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY to be the primary topic for Enfield. (non-admin closure) Vpab15 (talk) 18:03, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

---

• Enfield Town → Enfield
• Enfield → Enfield (disambiguation)

– The subject of the "Enfield Town" article is Enfield. However, the name "Enfield Town" only refers to part of this area, and, for this reason, I believe "Enfield Town" is not an appropriate name for this article. I therefore propose that this article be moved to "Enfield", which is presently a disambiguation page. I would also argue that the subject of this article is the primary topic for "Enfield", as it gives its name to almost everything listed on the disambiguation page, whether it be the Enfield Revolver or Enfield, South Australia. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 17:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

• "Enfield" is indeed the name of the settlement but I thought "Enfield Town" was used as natural disambiguation. Looking at views[[1]] its not clear that the town is primary even assuming the borough is a sub topic of it. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:31, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
• Support. "Enfield Town" only describes part of Enfield. People in Ponders End or Freezywater, for instance, would consider themselves in the town of Enfield but not in Enfield Town. As for the popular pages under the search query "Enfield", their "Enfield" names originate from this Enfield! The "Vauxhall" article, for example, takes you to the town rather than the car manufacturer named after it. My belief is that the same should apply to "Enfield" and Royal Enfield, Enfields named after this Enfield, etc. Primary topics aside, I would reiterate my view that "Enfield Town" is certainly not an appropriate name for this article. Just to address your mention of the borough, the borough is just a local authority area, which covers a much wider area than Enfield and is solely named after Enfield. Edmonton and Palmers Green (in "Enfield" borough council area) are not in Enfield. I would strongly oppose any suggestion that the borough is the primary topic for "Enfield". PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 00:00, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose move. Being the namesake of the other Enfields isn't enough to make it the primary topic. O.N.R. ^(talk) 03:43, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Compared to the other Enfields that take their name from this Enfield, this Enfield is far more populous and well-known. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 10:58, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. If the title Enfield Town is misleading, then it can be changed to something else, say Enfield (town). However, that article is definitely not the primary topic: WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY is clear that etymology is not important, and clickstream data for the dab page shows that the link to Enfield Town was followed 36 times in November, which is fewer than Enfield (heraldry) (50), M1917 Enfield (53), Lee-Enfield (117), or London Borough of Enfield (236). – Uanfala (talk) 13:38, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose and given that Enfield Town railway station is Enfield Town's station, not really a problem In ictu oculi (talk) 17:46, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
  • WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY does indeed make clear the fact etymology in place names is not determinative, to address Uanfala's point. It uses the example of Boston, Massachusetts and Boston, Lincolnshire, with the US city being the primary topic due to the English town's low prominence compared to the US city. This Enfield, however, is the place with the highest prominence compared to other places with the same name. It is a "major centre" in London, and has the highest number of place name page views for "Enfield", as well as the highest population of any "Enfield" (excluding the borough, which is solely a local government district named after and containing Enfield). As for the disambiguation page, I assume the Enfield Town article doesn't get as many clicks due to both its misleading name and its position on the page below both the local authority district and areas within the town itself. I would not use interactions on the disambiguation page to determine status as the primary topic in this case. The two Enfield firearm articles you mention are two of several, with many having been made at Enfield's Royal Small Arms Factory, so these are certainly not contenders for the primary topic. To address In ictu oculi, I do not understand the point made. Enfield Town railway station is indeed Enfield Town's station. But Enfield, the subject of the badly-named Enfield Town article, has multiple railway stations. I am not suggesting that Enfield Town station is the primary topic for "Enfield Town" if that is what you are objecting to. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 18:17, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
    • Interactions on the dab page show directly what readers seek and therefore are the only way to gauge if there's a primary topic with respect to usage. Pageviews are useful only as vague, indirect indicators of relative importance between the topics, but here the town is definitely not the place with the highest number of pageviews. To repeat the link given above by Crouch, Swale: [2]: you can see that it gets a third of the views for the borough, and barely makes it in the top ten overall. As for the layout of the dab page: I agree that the town needs to be featured more prominently (and some of the WP:PTMs removed altogether). – Uanfala (talk) 18:42, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
      • I did say "place name page views...excluding the borough"! The nature of the dab page's current layout means interactions on the dab page probably aren't the best way to look at things in this case. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 18:58, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
  • In ictu oculi, I don't understand your point. What's "not really a problem"? How does Enfield Town railway station even come into this discussion? PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 13:23, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose unjustified primarytopic grab. Dicklyon (talk) 06:06, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Unjustified? Do feel free to address the points I've made in putting the case for these pagemoves. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 13:58, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 8 April 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 01:46, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

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Enfield Town → Enfield, London – The subject of this article is the entire town of Enfield, however the current name of the article, "Enfield Town", refers only to a specific part of Enfield. My view is that the name 'Enfield, London' would be more appropriate. The page located there is currently a redirect to the London Borough of Enfield article, which I would strongly argue is not the primary topic for 'Enfield, London'. It is merely a local government district containing Enfield, along with other areas. The name "Enfield" refers to the area covered by this article. I previously proposed that this article be moved to "Enfield" as the primary topic, however consensus amongst participants was that it did not meet WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY. This move request focuses on the main issue with the name of this article. Brimsdown, for instance, is in Enfield, but not in Enfield Town. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 16:32, 8 April 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 10:41, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

• I've changed the redirect to point here, on closer inspection there is indeed a small area called "Enfield Town" though its possible the current title may be preferable per WP:NATURAL if this is only for the central part but the article indicates its for the wider area though not the entire borough. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:44, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Thanks. Just to emphasise, the article is certainly not just about the central area known as Enfield Town. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 17:07, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
• Comment Not a local, and I am thoroughly confused here. The article currently at Enfield Town does seem to discuss things that are outside of Enfield Town. Wouldn't the solution be to move this content (to, say, London Borough of Enfield) rather than rename the article? 162.208.168.92 (talk) 17:36, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
  • "Enfield Town" is the name of the town centre of Enfield. Enfield falls within the much wider London Borough of Enfield (the local council district). This article is about the entire town of Enfield, but confusingly bears the name "Enfield Town". If we were to retain the title of this article and move information about other parts of Enfield to the local council district article, we won't have an article for Enfield itself. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 20:40, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.