Talk:Eleanor of Castile

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Im confused by two daughters born May 1271 (7th and 8th children) - were they twins? Do the two entries refer to one child?

They were twins. One died, the other (Joan of Acre) survived.

The dates originally reported in this article were erroneous. The daughter born in 1271 died in infancy. Joan of Acre was born sometime in 1272, not 1271. Some authorities claim Eleanor of Castile did have twin daughters, but there is no proof that she did. Regards, John Carmi Parsons.

Hi. I'm little confuse abaout the children of Edward I and Eleonor of Castile: Anybody know how exactly was the number?. In some source appears three other daughter: Alice (1279-91), Blanche (b. and d. 1289) and Beatrice (b. and d. 1290). I really appreciate if anybody write to me and explain these. Thanks Aldebaran69 01:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

"Castile, Spain "

To say that Eleanor was "born in Castile, Spain" is very much like saying George Washington was born in Virginia, USA.--Wetman (talk) 21:08, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Eleanor could not be born in Spain because the Kingdom of Spain did not exist at 1241. It would be correct that Eleanor was "born in Castile".--Xavigivax (talk) 16:47, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Picture

What is the provenance of the picture of Eleanor? It's very unlikely that it is anywhere near contemporary; are there actually any 13th century depictions or descriptions of her? TheOneOnTheLeft (talk) 13:44, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Well the picture now on here is out of focus and looks horrible. Anyone have a better one? -- Lady Meg (talk) 04:04, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree, and have uploaded a better one which I found on Commons.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:19, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Location of Harby

Why does the page currently state that Harby is 'less than 22 miles from Lincoln'? It is considerably less than 10 miles from Lincoln.82.7.138.114 (talk) 01:00, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Date of birth

The article goes to great lengths to establish the date of her birth as late 1241, yet the side box, introduction and birth year index were all edited to show it as 1244 in October 2014. I have therefore corrected these dates to 1241, which means they are in line with the article's own evidence. Presumably, anyone wishing to revert this change will provide evidence that the birth was in 1244 rather than the commonly accepted 1241.

Her date of birth is sometimes given as 1244, following Agnes Strickland, in her "Lives of the Queens of England" (volume 2, 1841), who states, without showing evidence, that Eleanor was "about ten" at the time of her marriage. The number of candles used in the 1291 commemorative procession, described in the birth section, shows this can't be true. The date of birth of her first, stillborn, child in May 1255 is further evidence. She is highly unlikely to have become pregnant at the age of nine or ten, though twelve or thirteen is perfectly likely. Cliff (talk) 11:52, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Image...

Eleanor, the photograph of the statue appears to have been uploaded in breach of copyright, and a deletion notice has been tagged to the file on the Commons. Images used on the wiki need to be correctly tagged with their copyright status, and this one isn't. Hchc2009 (talk) 11:37, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Historical Legacy

I have expanded the historical legacy section to reflect Eleanor's changing reputation since 1290; particularly to reflect the her status (surprising, post-Strickland) as a grand guignol villain in Elizabethan theatre (George Peele's Edward I) and balladry.

Sources are:

• Holinshed, Raphael, Chronicles of England, Scotland and Ireland;
• Griffin, Eric, English Renaissance Drama and the Specter of Spain: Ethnopoetics and Empire
• Cockerill, Sara, Eleanor of Castile: The Shadow Queen
• Fuchs, Barbara; Weissbourd, Emily: Representing Imperial Rivalry in the Early Modern Mediterranean — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.64.126.162 (talk) 03:29, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Antisemitism

So she took the land of one rich guy who happened to be a Jew. She was unpopular for taking land from multiple rich guys who were not Jews. Yet the first somehow justifies a blanket accusation of antisemitism? How do we know she seized the land of that guy because he was a Jew, and not because he was rich?

It appears, from the document cited (page 68) to be a loose interpretation at best -

...was imprisoned in the Tower of London under writ of the Great Seal. Later on he was in arrears with tallage-payments, his son was arrested as a hostage, and the king confiscated a number of his bonds. He died at the close of 1279, what was left of his estate having been bestowed by the king on Queen Eleanor

and from Oxford Jewish Heritage website, which says it used the same source we have:

Many of the Jews left England because they were unable to continue their business and it was around this time (in 1264) that Jacob of Oxford sold two buildings to Walter de Merton for the establishment of Merton College. (The original documents detailing this transaction still exist in Merton's Muniment Tower). Queen Eleanor of Castile, Edward I's wife, claimed the entire estate of Jacob of Oxford, the most important Jewish financier of the mid-13th century.

217.41.77.102 (talk) 13:51, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

References

This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. Help me please --👀Gremista.32 (talk) 22:51, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Written by a fan or two

Not only does it lack citations, but it reads like it was written by people who are fans of Eleanor. I'm not sure how best to address this tbh. If I get time I will add some cited information on the bits I know about relating to her abuse of Jewish loans etc. Jim Killock (talk) 12:39, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Sara Cockerill biography

I have this to see what it says, I really cannot take it seriously. Although it isn't all wrong, there's plenty in there that is true, her assessment of Eleanor seems way off the mark. She is not a trained historian (nor is Lisa Hilton but she is more level headed). A lot of the material on this page seems to have come from Sara Cockerill, on whom all I can say is, Prince Andrew better hope she's picked if he ever gets taken to court. I am inclined to ignore the book's views and remove any material that comes solely from her, excepting perhaps something at the end regarding opinions. Let me know if this seems wrong. Jim Killock (talk) 00:16, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

My views on this has softened; Cockerill is not good on Eleanor as a businesswoman; she overestimates her in many ways and does not wish to discuss the appalling arrangements that stood behind her land acquisitions, but she isn't so bad elsewhere. So I've used her book but more sparingly than Parsons. Jim Killock (talk) 00:08, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Missing references

The page is down to about six missing references for statement that are mostly hard to cut or lose without losing something (eg, the forms of her name; that she was buried at a different location to her current tomb). If anyone can help with any of these I would be very grateful. Jim Killock (talk) 12:13, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

These are the bits I can't find sources for, thankfuly just four that seem to matter:

Her Castilian name, Leonor, became Alienor or Alianor in England, and Eleanor in modern English.

Her body was placed in a grave near the high altar that had originally contained the coffin of Edward the Confessor and, more recently, that of King Henry III until his remains were removed to his new tomb in 1290. Eleanor's body remained in this grave until the completion of her own tomb.

When Edward remarried a decade after her death, he and his second wife Margaret of France, named their only daughter Eleanor in honour of her.

The estates Eleanor assembled became the nucleus for dower assignments made to later queens of England into the 15th century, and her involvement in this process established a queen-consort's freedom to engage in such transactions.

Jim Killock (talk) 17:10, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Todos, list of fixes

These from reading are missing and should be added:

• Tidy up land acquisitions section Done
  • Acknowledge planned role in development, selection of lands Done
  • Explain "Eleanor as businesswoman" vs privileged access Done privileged access; need to find quote about her businesswoman aspect, or possibly ignore as not from good sources.
  • Explain access to Jewish loans as patronage system Done
  • When and how this peaked, declined Done
  • Describe all sources of land grants
  • Why this may have made her look grasping (land as income not status)
  • Role of managers
  • Describe relations with tenants
  • Add information on crisis of the knights (is there an article?) Done enough
• Other sources of income
  • Explain Queen's Gold etc Done
• Relations with king
  • Source of advice?
• Personal interests Done
  • Food and diet Done
  • Supplies from Acra Done
• Crusades
  • Memorialisation of crusades

Jim Killock (talk) 00:05, 8 February 2024 (UTC)