Talk:Dutch

Notification of deletion of offensive content

Without waiting for any editorial interference, I deleted *Dutch KankerMongool (Rhode Island of Kanker) under Places, since it is a very offensive word and a non-existent place. Some kind of stupid prank I guess.

Yours, --Bjrndlw (talk) 18:46, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Offensive term

Why is dutch offensive for some in the netherlands? If that is the case, why they still sing in their national anthem: duitse blood? or something like that? So, anything that sound a bit german is offensive for some dutch? Might be true, but than they maybe should change the text of their national anthem as well.

Fact is the netherland were part of middle age germany and the language was the same until the later middle ages. Only after that it became a seperate language and a seperate people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.225.245.211 (talk • contribs) 15:28, 21 March 2004

Fact is you are wrong. Please read the article before making such statements. Dutch is not a derative of German (not todays german anyway, but altdeutsch). As for the Anthem, the text is "Duitschen bloed", 'Duitschen' a variant of 'Diets', not 'Deutsch'. Dutch is offensive because it is the English form of old Netherlandic 'Diets', which was used by nazis (the nazis used and abused many words. Thats why many think "grossdeutschland" was invented by the nazis. Actually its originally from the 1848 revolution) to promote the fictional pan-Germanic heritage of the Netherlands and Germany. Also, it implies that the Netherlands is but a part of Germany, and that the Netherlandic language is a German dialect, which is not the case. Netherlandic dialects diverged from the Germanic tree long before most German dialects did. — Jor (Talk) 20:38, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Dutch is also the niederdeutsche word (a northern german dialect) for "Deutsch". So i am not completly wrong. I did not say that dutch is a dialect of german. It is not. It can't because it has its own written language. What i said is that dutch was (past) a german dialect in the middle ages. Or maybe the other way around. In the middle ages it was the same language.

But you didnt explained why they find "dutch" offensive but not "duitsch". If dutch is the english word for "diets" and "diets" a variant of "Duitsch" than they must be offended with "duitsch" as well. That is the logical conclusion, isn't it?

Refering to the germanic (germanische!!! nicht deutsche) heritage is not too fictional. The bataver were a germanic tribe. It is not a german problem that "german" is the english word of "deutsch", so the english often cant distinguish between the "ancient" germanic tribes and germans.

My point is if you state in the article: "They are offended by the term "dutch"", than you maybe should explain it. Knowbody except dutch would know why. I didn't. Maybe some germans would rather be called bavarians or saxons. But stating something that knowbody knows why is absurd.

If, than put a link and explain it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.225.245.211 (talk • contribs) 16:55, 21 March 2004

Besides, the english called the dutch, dutch long before hitler was even born. So, only because the nazis used or rather misused that term, they should just rename everything. I think your point of view is rather absurde.

Maybe the germans should also rename all words with führer in it: like Lokführer, Reiseführer, lol. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.85.233.166 (talk • contribs) 19:31, 21 March 2004

As far as I know, dutch people aren't offended by the therm dutch( and I am dutch, so I should know) The english word for the language spoken in germany is german, and I have never heard of the therm Duitsch in english. however, the dutch word for german is Duits. I do know, that since our anthem is very old (+- 500 jears old) spelling wasn't solid in that time. In most versions it Dietsen bloed is said, but since diets is an archaic therm, modern Dutch versions all state Duits instead of Diets. Diets means "of the people". There is a lot of debate wether the song says of german blood or of normal blood(of the people). Both are reasonable possibilities. William of orange had german roots, and the song was wrote for William of nassau. But William wrote the song to get to the normal people and create a bonding feeling. Of course, peasants would support William more eagerly if he acknowledged his normal blood. In modern politics, get closer to the people. The same reason why Bush kept its Texan accent. So I think that that part should be deleted or at least improved. anyone disagree? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.163.73.201 (talk • contribs) 02:53, 15 April 2004

• Indeed -- the word "Dutch" is not considered offensive by Dutch people. The alternative that was mentioned in the previous revision, "Netherlandic", is definitely not a existing word. There exists a word "Netherlandish" (according to the Van Dale English-Dutch dictionary). However, that word is rarely used, and certainly not as an alternative to the so-called 'offensive' Dutch. Therefore I have removed the remark about Dutch being offensive. Guus 18:04, Aug 28, 2004 (UTC)

This whole issue surprises me quite a bit. Like most people the Dutch are proud of their country and nationality, and they know perfectly well the English word "Dutch" means "Nederlands". There is no offence. When abroad, Dutch people are often mistaken for Germans. That is considered offensive.

The issue of the national anthem is unrelated to this. The text reads "Duitsen bloed" (not "Dietsen bloed"); and the Dutch word "Duits" doesn't mean Dutch but German. So "German blood" (or "German origin") that is.

"Wilhelmus van Nassauwe, ben ik, van Duitsen bloed..." or "William of Nassau, I am, of German origin..."

The phrase cannot be understood without its historical context. The "I" in the phrase refers specifically to William the Silent (William of Orange-Nassau), not to just any Dutchman singing the song. And William, the Dutch "father of the fatherland", was a German (from Nassau) and not a Dutchman. He didn't even understand a word of Dutch (he spoke French most of the time, because he was educated in Brussels).

Need more confusion? Read the complete text of the Dutch national anthem (here on Wikipedia, in Dutch and English). Two phrases further in the text William sings that he honours the king of Spain (his enemy in the Dutch revolt)...

Let's rehearse: William was the Dutch father of the fatherland, he had German blood, spoke French and honoured the king of Spain. European history is complex (but so exciting). Jaho 13:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

the people

There should be a separate page for the Dutch people. Instances of Dutch when referring to people should not be disambiguated. --Joy [shallot] 21:47, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Pennsylvania Dutch

Dutch in Pennsylvania Dutch comes from "deutsch" (the german word for German and german language), not from "dutch". Pennsylvania Dutch is a relative to the german language, see Pennsylvania German or Pennsylvania German language. (Hypnosekröte) 84.137.239.107 13:06, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Do you have a reference for that? The articles I've read have described 'dutch' as having its own, English etymology. It's not just a corrupted borrowing directly from German, in the same way that "hound," in English doesn't 'come from' "hond," in Dutch. Made of nguyen (talk) 06:56, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Throrough shortening

I made a drastic reduction of the amount of links, since the vast majority simply refer to things that similarly named, but would would certainly never be articles that could be disambiguated from one another. I don't mind compromises, but we need to keep stuff like the nick-name of Reagan and the name of Ah-nuld's Predator-character out of these articles.

Peter ^Isotalo 16:12, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Another possibility.

What about 'going Dutch'? As in the colloquialism. Appropriate for this disambig.? → P.MacUidhir (t) (c) 14:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Link to disambig of Netherlands

I've linked to the disambig page of Netherlands, since "Dutch" historically can refer to any of these regions, not just the current kingdom of the Netherlands. Piet 17:08, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Movie

What about the movie Dutch released in 1991 starring Ed O'Niel? Jakz34 21:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Added. SCHZMO ✍ 21:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Memoir

What about Edmund Morris's Dutch: A Memoir of Ronald Reagan? --68.41.122.213 14:36, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Added. SCHZMO ✍ 21:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Location of Netherlands

Isn't Netherlands located in central Europe, not northern? 81.197.47.179 21:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

OK. North-central Europe to be specific. But it's just a disambiguation page... SCHZMO ✍ 21:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The Netherlands is in Western Europe, North-Western Europe if you like. Central Europe is quite a way from here, (Austria/Czechia etc.). North-central Europe would be Poland or so. The Netherlands is just east of England (separated by the North Sea), please take a look on a map and see for yourself. Jaho 13:59, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Dutch;

Dutch;Well known name of pack of botanic thieves

Source? ʍαμ$ʏ5043 19:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Why "Dutch"?

Does anyone know where the word "Dutch" was derived from? For instance, why do people from the Netherlands, speak Dutch? Jilljacobucci 16:40, 16 June 2007 (UTC)jill

The Netherlands (terminology) article should offer an explanation. +A.0u 05:00, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Dutch is a langue what Peoples from Belgium and Netherlands talked —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.243.18.234 (talk) 07:50, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

The word comes from Frankian "theodisk". Theod being "people". It was the name the Franks used to distinguish their own Germanic tongue from the Latin of the church and of all official documents. Other Germanic tribes that spoke pretty similar dialects at the time also took up the name and kept it even when the new languages like Dutch and High German arose. This is why Germans call themselves Deutsch. The English have it right though: modern Dutch is the closest descendant from the old (low west-) frankian dialects, even though the Dutch themselves have given up on the cognate 'diets' or nederduits for their own language. Jcwf (talk) 22:53, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Restortion to Disambiguation Page

The Wikipedia page "Dutch" is a Disambiguation Page. It is not a catch-all for all things including the word "Dutch" or associated with the term in any way.

As such, the following non directly germane content was removed this day:

For the Peter Faiman, Ed O'Neill road film, see Dutch (film)

• Dutch cuisine

The English word Dutch derives from the Low German Dütsch or Düütsch, which shares a common etymology with German Deutsch—in both cases, an adjective formed by adding the suffix -sch to the noun Deut ("Teut", as in Teuton and Teutonic), which means "human being". In effect, Dutch/Dütsch/Deutsch ultimately means "of human beings" or "of the people".

In actual use, the term came to refer to all the peoples associated with the Holy Roman Empire, which included the Netherlands—especially those who spoke Germanic languages. Consequently, and for several centuries, the term "Dutch" was used to indicate people and things who were Dutch, Flemish, Frisian, Saxon, Westphalian, Hanoverian, Hamburger, Luxemburger, Limburger, and so on. In short, the term referred to all continental Germanic groups.

For the most part, the American use of Dutch to mean "German" disappeared in the years following World War II, but certain terms have become classic and are still in use, such as "Dutch potato salad" and "Dutch apple pie", which are more accurately called "German potato salad" and "German apple pie".

Dutch may also refer to Communities

• the Pennsylvania Dutch, a group of German immigrants to Pennsylvania (United States)
• the Cape Dutch, the mostly Dutch European inhabitants of the Western Cape (South Africa) between the 17th and 19th centuries, including those who founded Kaapstad (see also Cape Dutch architecture)

History

• Dutch Golden Age painting, or the Dutch Masters, a group of artists during that period
• Dutch Colonial, an architectural style found in northern America

People

• A nickname of Ronald Reagan, the 40th United States President
• Dutch Schultz, a notorious mobster
• A name used by electronic music producer Jesse Houk, better known as The Scumfrog
• Dutch Ruppersberger, Democratic member of the United States House of Representatives

Objects and products

• Dutch oven
• Dutch process chocolate
• Dutch Gold, a popular beer in the Republic of Ireland
• Dutch Masters (cigar), often referred to as a "Dutch"

Animals

• Dutch Bantam, a breed of chicken

Film

• Dutch (film), a 1991 comedy/drama film
• Major Alan "Dutch" Schaefer, the main character in the movie Predator played by Arnold Schwarzenegger
• Dutch, a protagonist in the manga and anime series Black Lagoon.
• Detective Holland "Dutch" Wagenbach, a character in the television show The Shield

Literature

• Dutch: A Memoir of Ronald Reagan, a 1999 book by Edmund Morris

Music

• Dutch hip hop or Nederhop, a music genre of the Netherlands
• Hardcore/Hardstyle a music genre of the Netherlands

Colloquial usage Many colloquial terms use the word Dutch. A rare few describe actual Dutch customs. Some negative ones originate from prejudice caused by the Anglo-Dutch Wars, some are based on other stereotypes, and some have nothing to do with the Netherlands. These terms include

• Going Dutch, to split the cost of a purchase, usually a meal, evenly between several parties
• Dutch courage, courage from intoxication
• Dutch comfort, a comforting sentiment providing no comfort at all, (e.g., "at least things can't get any worse")
• Dutch Defence, a chess opening
• Dutch auction, an auction in which prices fall as sale progresses.
• Dutch angle, in film, a severely tilted camera angle
• Dutch book, a method of guaranteeing a profit in gambling
• Dutching, a method of sharing the risk of losing in gambling
• Double Dutch, which has a few different meanings
• Dutch wife, a body length pillow; in Japan a sex doll
• Dutch uncle, an acquaintance who speaks with an inappropriate level of candour
• Dutch hoe, a hoe design that is pushed or pulled through the soil to cut weeds just under the surface.
• Dutch treat, similar to Going Dutch
• Dutch or Dutchie, a slang term for a blunt, especially when used for smoking marijuana
• "in Dutch", means you have gotten into trouble with someone.
• Dutch Nail", literally from Malay, "Paku Belanda". A proverb describing a same item being sold at expensive rate. Similar to American's "ripoff".

With few exceptions, these compound enties can be found under their own headings and thus do not need to be disambiguated. Further, all that have their own articles can be reached via the link to articles beginning with "Dutch" at the top of the edited page.

Those which do not begin with "Dutch" - as "Going Dutch" - are reachable via their own titles directly.

Any contributor is welcome to develop a page of Dutch-related expressions. This, however, is a Disambiguation Page and is not the place for such a catch-all, let alone uncited exposition on colloquial use of the term.

Anyone wishing to create alternative links to topics including the term "Dutch" to help direct readers to them, such as for "Dutch painters" or "Dutch painting" to take a reader to "Dutch Golden Age painting", is welcome to create redirects to do so. Do not add them as individual entries to this Disambiguation Page. Thank you. Wikiuser100 (talk) 12:59, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Ronald Reagan

Could someone explain why Ronald Reagan is listed on this page?--Koentjuhh (talk) 08:30, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Reagan's father gave him the nickname "Dutch". While not as commonly used as "Jack" Kennedy, Reagan was referred to by various people as "Dutch" for the rest of his life. --Khajidha (talk) 02:14, 23 January 2012 (UTC)