Talk:Drama (film and television)

Drama

This article is on film, television and radio drama. As it excludes the theatre it is not on the genre. To add to the confusion there is another article drama, which focusses on the theatre.

It also overlaps with other existing articles, including Radio drama and Television play, though most of the content deals with film. Perhaps this article should just focus on films? Does it need it re-naming: Say Drama, film or Drama (film and television)? Rwood128 (talk) 20:47, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

I've just realized that there is an old merge proposal on the Drama page.Rwood128 (talk) 20:57, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

I think we should decide here what exactly the modern genre "drama" (defined by serious/heavy tone and often realism) includes in order to clarify our first sentence. Right now, we only say it is a genre of television program and film. Is it not also a genre of radio program and even theatre? (I realize the latter two have the capacity to become confusing. Radio drama is its own article already, but then why should that stop us from being clear on this article? As for theatrical plays, I've also heard of them called dramas to refer to their genre, as is sometimes used, for example, to describe more heavy-toned plays by the likes of Williams, Miller, Ibsen, etc. etc.) What are people's thoughts? Wolfdog (talk) 18:37, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Wolfdog isn't this dealt with in the final paragraph of the lede: "With regard to radio, and the contemporary theatre the situation is more complex" etc? There is "drama" mainly a film/TV genre which is the opposite of comedy (but is not tragedy!), and then there is "the drama" which includes all types of play. You are very welcome to try and make this clearer. Maybe the lede should begin with these two basic definitions? Rwood128 (talk) 19:57, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Oh, I apologize for missing it; it's been a long week. Let me read through the wording now at my leisure. Sorry again and thanks! Wolfdog (talk) 20:02, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Also the revised title to the article is an attempt to emphasise that this is a different usage than for the article Drama. At first it was "Drama (the modern genre}", but the definite article here doesn't conform to WP style. Rwood128 (talk) 20:11, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Change title

I suggest that a more appropriate title would be A drama: genre fiction Is this acceptable? Rwood128 (talk) 10:55, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

However, genre fiction seems to focus only on prose. What about Drama (media genre)? I'd appreciate help in this matter.Rwood128 (talk) 11:22, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

What about Drama: the modern genre? Rwood128 (talk) 09:34, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

We don't use colons that way. See WP:AT and WP:DAB.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  05:49, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Re merge

I have suggested on the Drama Talk page that the merge proposal should be withdrawn. Rwood128 (talk) 11:50, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

See this discussion on the Drama Talk page [1]. Rwood128 (talk) 13:23, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

In view of the discussion on Drama's Talk page, shouldn't this article be merged with Drama? Rwood128 (talk) 12:58, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 30 August 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus  — Amakuru (talk) 09:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

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Drama (film and television) → Drama (genre) – There is so much disagreement over what should be the name of this article, but I think this name is best suited. Kailash29792 (talk) 05:44, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

• Rename to Drama (media) per succinct description of scope in above discussion: "This article is on film, television and radio drama ... it excludes the theatre it is not on the genre".  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  05:48, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose: There are several discussions about this that appear to be happening in different locations. There's also much confusion about how the word "drama" is used and what it means. Drama (media) isn't a good idea, since it bundles together several different things that don't really belong together. The same is true for Drama (film and television). Drama is the umbrella term for all of these things. It is such a large topic (and, as is often the case on Wikipedia, as a result is far from complete) that sub-articles will be necessary. However, grouping together TV, radio, and film "drama" as if all of those belonged together on the one hand, as distinct from plays on the other, is a false organisation. As the lede in drama makes clear (I researched in depth before writing that lede some time ago in an attempt to make a start on a more comprehensive treatment) in the example of radio, drama is used in several different senses. I suggest that the most meaningful and least-likely-to-mislead organisation would be sub-articles on each specific medium. That is: Drama (film genre), Drama (television genre) or Television drama, and Radio drama (but we should definitely avoid "Film drama" or "Drama film" which are clunky and not scholarly terms). If enough material were to be developed to justify a sub-article on plays in the narrow sense of the genre (that is, a genre of a play that is in-between comedy and tragedy, rather than the larger-scale genre of a form of storytelling distinct from epic poetry, dance, lyrical poetry etc. that proceeds via mimesis), then namning that would be a little trickier. My sense, though, is that this won't be a problem, since such material would be more appropriately covered in an article on Naturalism in the theatre and a subsection in the main Drama article treating the modern period. The title Drama (genre) would just be misleading and confuse the relationships.  • DP •  ^{huh?} 13:54, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Comment : I've re-written the lede and purged the great quantity of unsourced original research, which was of a fairly low quality throughout, mostly consisting of vague statements about cinema in general with the term "dramatic" pinned on. As a Google Books search will confirm to anyone who want to examine it more closely, the term "drama film" isn't a scholarly one--you'll be hard-pressed to find a substantial definition anywhere. I've re-written the lede to reflect that. I've also tried to clarify the relationship between the term as used here and the broader term drama, which some earlier discussions seemed to think were two distinct things (they're not, but neither are they identical). "Drama" is also a genre within the broader type of storytelling "drama"--which, with the re-write, is why I would suggest the proposed move wouldn't be appropriate. If you look at Raymond Williams' work, for example, you'll see that both drama and this article can be described as genres, but in different senses or at different levels.  • DP •  ^{huh?} 16:56, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

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Problems with the terms and definitions

Just to flag up, without being able to fix it. From the research I did before trying to improve this article, it's clear that many of the definitions here and in their respective articles are in dire need of work. I glanced at melodrama and costume drama, both of which have unsourced definitions that contradict what the scholarly sources I read say.  • DP •  ^{huh?} 17:07, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 2

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) GeoffreyT2000 (talk, contribs) 04:36, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

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Drama (film and television) → Drama (film and TV) – Other articles use TV, not television. 31.53.108.231 (talk) 09:10, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose We should use proper words like television in an encyclopedia, not abbreviations like TV, unless it is part of a specific article name. Artoxx (talk) 18:13, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. No need for the change. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:04, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

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Requested move 8 May 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 04:00, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

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Drama (film and television) → Drama (media genre) – More simple title, and it could also accommodate "web series" (such as Netflix originals). --Let There Be Sunshine 07:05, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose as media is often considered to include print media, while web series are often considered either "web series" or "online television." - - mathmitch7 ^{(talk/contribs)} 22:24, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - I agree "media" is the wrong word. How about simply Drama (genre)? -- Netoholic @ 02:07, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

That would actually make a lot of sense, seeing as Drama (genre) already redirects here, and the article could be more about the whole thing as a genre than about film and television specifically. But it would require additional sections. I'd Conditionally support User:Netoholic's counter-proposal.

I believe drama is also a literary genre, including print media should not be a problem. Drama (genre) is the right term, but currently this article is focused only on film and TV, it requires rewriting if it is moved.--Let There Be Sunshine 15:15, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

I guess that then it's a question of how best to distinguish between Drama (genre) and Drama. From Drama, it seems like they're able to distinguish fairly well from Drama as a literary mode and Drama as a genre of media so we should be able to do it with minimal overlap.- - mathmitch7 ^{(talk/contribs)} 16:07, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

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'guy cry films'

Having never heard this term and having asked several people and had all of them draw a blank I'm tempted to remover the sentence "If they are targeted to a male audience, then they are called "guy cry" films." from the article. Having looked for it I can only find reference to the term in the title's of watchMojo videos on youtube. I would argue that shouldn't warrant a suitable source for such a declarative statement. 194.66.201.11 (talk) 11:51, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Gone with the Wind as the example

With the ongoing debate and reassessment of racial policies across the board, wouldn't it behoove Wikipedia to also remove Gone with the Wind as 'the' example of a film drama, because of its racial content? --Sabre Runner (talk) 07:31, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Section headers

Per MOS:LINKSTYLE, section headers should not be linked. There should be a {{main article}} or {{see also}} link below the header, with a summary of what the page is that you're linking to.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 16:21, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done - Daveout(talk) 15:00, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

move 41.222.181.151 (talk) 06:54, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

non-fiction drama?

i have a few questions that might affect quite a few pages, particularly related to TV, film, and drama.

Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch#Editorializing says we should not presume too much about the reader's knowledge and perspective.

Wiktionary's page on drama includes a situation in real life that has the characteristics of a theatrical play as a possible definition. While not the primary topic, should Wikipedia's drama and drama (disambiguation) pages acknowledge drama can be non-fiction? See also dramatization and docudrama.

As a genre, is drama always fiction by definition? Should we assume readers know that a drama is fiction? Is the non-fiction Cops (TV program) a cop drama, or might someone call it that by mistake? Our page on The Irrational calls the TV show a crime drama based on a non-fiction book. If readers know some dramas are fiction and some dramas are non-fiction, they might reasonably assume a drama based on a non-fiction book is also non-fiction. Also, crime drama redirects to crime film, and i assume Wikipedia does not count The Irrational or any other TV shows as films/movies/motion pictures, even if a TV show consists of moving pictures (which may be filmed with or without using actual film). Should the crime film article be renamed and edited (crudely, maybe just replace every use of the word film with the phrase film or TV show)?

There are lots of drama articles (namely subgenres) i have not even seen but might need edits in similar fashion.

--173.67.42.107 (talk) 22:01, 19 February 2024 (UTC)