Talk:Deng Linlin

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There should probably be something here about the age controversy. She definitely does not look 16. 71.3.6.65 (talk) 06:21, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Even more problematically, there appear to exist older documents that listed her age that would make her 14 today. However her passport says 16, which is why she's being allowed to compete. --Delirium (talk) 23:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

So she doesn't look 16... so what? If you've paid attention to the sport for more than 2 minutes you would know that the Chinese gymnasts as well as the Romanians have never looked their age. That does not necessarily mean they're not of said age.

Age disputed because she is small?

I am amazed that Deng Linlin is accused of under-age only because she is small! The accusation is getting more and more ridiculous. Deng's size is actually quite normal for a female gymnast (see article). And unlike the cases of Jiang Yuyuan and He Kexin, in which have reliable sources with evidence such as webpages and excel files containing data contradict their official birthdates, there are no reliable sources with evidence contradict Deng's official age . So how come her age is disputed when there is no evidence from any reliable sources saying that Deng might has another birth date? Just tell me how Wikipeida's logics and rules work here? Unless evidence contradicts Deng's official age is found from any reliable sources, her birth date is not disputed and official birth date should be used instead.Tinbin (talk) 11:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I'd mentioned that below, and was thinking of changing it to 1992 myself, but didn't know if there would be consensus. I think we could go ahead and do that. DanielEng (talk) 16:04, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Missing Tooth

"Team coach Lu Shanzhen would not comment on the missing tooth."Bold text Well, I checked the source (citation 5 - Juliet Macur, New York Times, August 10 2008) and realized why he wouldn't comment on the missing tooth because NO BODY asked him that question. In other words, there is no information about Deng Linlin's missing tooth in the source, please checked the source. Tinbin (talk) 15:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

"also commented on the fact that Deng was missing a tooth, and cited it as evidence of underage gymnasts on the Chinese team." I checked citation 5 (Juliet Macur, New York Times, August 10 2008), 8 (Des Kelly, Daily Mail, August 11 2008) & 9 (uliet Macur, New York Times, August 9 2008). No information ever mentioned about Deng Linlin's missing tooth.Tinbin (talk) 15:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually if you checked carefully, her teeth is not missing.It was like that all along. Check the documentary "Dream weaver 2008", her set of teeth was already like that in 2006 Tinbin (talk) 15:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I happen to personally think the "OMG, her tooth is gone so it must be a missing baby tooth!" argument is rubbish--the girl is a gymnast and I'm sure she knocked it out at some point and it has nothing to do with her age. There was an American gymnast in 2006 who did the same thing and nobody thought she was 12. But unless we have a ref that the tooth has been gone all along (and we can't use Dream Weavers) we can't add that. DanielEng (talk) 15:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC

I know wikipedia can't user youtube, that is why I put it in the discussion page, it was only for your reference. Please check the following youtube clip http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=p0yKXDJuoTs&feature=related. It was the documentary "Dream Weaver 2008". Fast forward to 5:11 and you will see a interview of Deng Linlin after the "2006 National Gymnastics Competition", her tooth was already missing in 2006. Tinbin (talk) 16:10, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

From the refs: #8 and #9 were references to the height, not the teeth, so we can just bump them over to the preceding sentence. DanielEng (talk) 15:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

This is even worse than the missing tooth comment. Gymnasts are small. Are those people who made the comments know what they are talking about?? I found this article http://www.sgvtribune.com/opinions/ci_10329568. Directly quoting it ".....Deng Linlin is 4-foot-6, 68-pounds. Jiang Yuyuan, is 4-7 and 70 pounds. On the other hand, NBC failed to mention that Japan's Koko Tsurumi is 4-7 and 75 pounds. Russia's Ksenia Semenova is 4-6 and 77 pounds. Japan's team average is just 4-10 and 82.5 pounds. By comparison, Shawn Johnson of the U.S. checks in at 4-foot-9 and 90 pounds, a virtual sumo wrestler compared to some of the competition." Could I use it as a reliable source? Tinbin (talk) 16:31, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

For the "no comment on the tooth," the ref was wrong, but is now fixed. China’s coach, Lu Shanzhen, bristled when the age issue arose again on the day his gymnasts had upset the Americans, the reigning world champions. He would not explain Deng’s missing tooth. [1] DanielEng (talk) 15:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, after reading the original article, Lu Shenzhen would not explained the missing tooth, but have he been asked about it? And in the article Lu also commented that "if you look at the foreign athletes, they have so much more muscles than the Chinese. They are so strong. Do you then say that they are doping?". Well, I would not put this comment on Shawn Johnson's page just because she is muscular (Actually I like Shawn) since it is silly to accuse gymnasts of doping for being strong and muscular, same as accusing gymnasts are under age for being small and have a missing tooth. Tinbin (talk) 19:44, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

If they said "he would not explain the missing tooth," it does mean he was asked about it. I do happen to agree with you that I feel that Deng's been caught up in this. NBC also never mentions that the USA has had gymnasts just as small as Deng--Shannon Miller was the same height in Barcelona, IIRC. Paperwork is one thing, but a lot of gymnasts are tiny and the tiniest aren't always the ones who have had the faked ages. I've copyedited your new material a little but have not changed it. DanielEng (talk) 20:40, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I just removed the info about Lu Shenzhen. Please put it back and give the correct source for it. Would you checked all the other sources I mentioned in my other comments. No missing tooth information was mentioned in those sources. Please remove those incorrect sources.Tinbin (talk) 16:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Just for your interest, Please check the following youtube clip http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=p0yKXDJuoTs&feature=related. It was the documentary "Dream Weaver 2008". Fast forward to 5:11 and you will see a interview of Deng Linlin after the "2006 National Gymnastics Competition", her tooth was already missing in 2006. Tinbin (talk) 16:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I haven't had a look at the whole Dream Weaver doc yet but I will take a look. There's also some footage of Deng at the Moscow World Cup floating around that shows her missing tooth and that was months before the Olympics. DanielEng (talk) 20:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

In her photo at http://www.nbcolympics.com/athletes/athlete=59297/bio/index.html, you can clearly see a missing tooth. She smiled after one of the events last night as well, accidentally exposing the tooth and quickly covered it with her lips.

If she competes in 4 years with a full set of teeth, we will know that something was up. 63.88.93.150 (talk) 16:33, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

This page has a better picture of the tooth. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0808/oly.china.gymnastics1/content.11.html 63.88.93.150 (talk) 18:35, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I honestly don't see what the big deal is about the missing tooth. Also, I don't think Sports Illustrated should be used as a credible source. The article is riddled with mistakes and mis-information. Not to mention how disgustingly biased it is. And before you all start shooting off at the mouth, I AM AMERICAN! The SI article said that the age limit is set by the Olympics. WRONG! Let's get one thing straight, the reason the IOC has done nothing about this so-called controversy is because they don't have jurisdiction in this matter. In other words, the age limit is set by the FIG not the IOC. And if you want proof that the IOC "allows" persons younger than 16 to compete in the Olympics, look no further than diving. FINA (the governing body of diving, swimming, water polo, synchronized swimming, and open water) has an age limit of 14.

There IS no missing tooth. Her teeth are just crooked. You can see the teeth growing over one another. I had teeth like that before I got braces. I find it offensive that the part about her "missing" a tooth is even included when there is no evidence, other than the bigot Bela Karolyi's rude comment, to suggest that she is missing a tooth at all. Furthermore, Deng Linlin's age was NEVER disputed. Instead it was He Kexin, Jiang Yuyuan, and Yang Yilin who took the heat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.212.216.34 (talk) 23:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

age

remember if she is really 16 some time this year it ok that is the rules but based on what i have seen she can not be close. i am waited to hear back from a couple of professionals i have helping me on this —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goodguy007 (talk • contribs) 21:00, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Edits to age controversy

I made some major edits to the age controversy section--the references given refer specifically to Yang Yilin, He Kexin and Jiang Yuyuan. I wasn't able to find any reference for the possible 1993 birthdate anywhere on Google except in people's blogs, and there aren't any articles about hackers/media finding documentation for that, the way they have for the other gymnasts. The NBC Olympics profile cited has her birthdate as 1992. The FIG profile has nothing. They don't have a DOB for her at all--no 92, 93, nada. The only thing I could really find was a lot of commentary on her height and teeth, and that the FIG has now asked for more documentation on her. DanielEng (talk) 20:21, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

That pesky YouTube documentary

In the interest of preventing edit warring, here is a list of reasons why the passage on the YouTube documentary is not appropriate here.

Most important:

1. Wikipedia:Reliable source examples: YouTube: YouTube and other video-sharing sites are not reliable sources because anyone can create or manipulate a video clip and upload without editorial oversight, just as with a self-published website.

1. The documentary is copyrighted material. As per Wikipedia:Copyrights#Linking_to_copyrighted_works: If you know that an external Web site is carrying a work in violation of the creator's copyright, do not link to that copy of the work. Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement in the United States (Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry [1]). Linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on Wikipedia and its editors.

Also:

1. The documentary is Dream Weavers 2008. It is already noted in the article that she appears in the documentary but as per the below, there's nothing more that can be verified or said about it.
2. The documentary was filmed over a period of 8 years and there is no verification of the actual time in which segments were filmed; deducing it was a certain month or year is WP:OR.
3. The documentary does not have a verifiable English translation. Subtitles don't count. DanielEng (talk) 03:42, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

FIG Again Finds Deng Linlin INNOCENT

I think the FIG announcement of 2nd investigation exhonorating Deng and her teammates, and her own statement on her age, should have some prepondrance. The controversy is now over, after two verdicts, and her age is not in dispute anymore - NPOV means we show the living person some respect and stop slandering her. Would you want your daughter/sister put thru the ringer like this??? Bobby fletcher (talk) 00:26, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

The article notes the finding of the FIG. Readin (talk) 15:59, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

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