Talk:Cheyenne Mountain Complex

Mockingjay pop culture reference removed

Twice, editors have in good faith added references to Mockingjay to this article, as a possible "District 13" location. That's not backed up by any references, and the bunker complex described in "Mockingjay" is much larger (city-sized), but less hardened. The Central Government War Headquarters, UK, with ten miles of roadways and a capacity of 4000 people, or the US's Mount Weather Emergency Operations Center would be a better match. --John Nagle (talk) 06:37, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Cheyenne Mountain article discussion

Please see the Talk:Colorado Springs, Colorado#Cheyenne Mountain (related to Cheyenne Canon) posting about the different Cheyenne Mountain articles.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:38, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station / nuclear bunker

I've posted a question at Talk:Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station#Difference between this and Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker about the distinction between the Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker and the Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station. Any clarification or input there is much appreciated!--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:02, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 21 February 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Cúchullain ^t/c 20:23, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

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Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker → Cheyenne Mountain Complex – Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker is not the name of the facility. It is most commonly called Cheyenne Mountain Complex, although there are other names that indicate the NORAD/USNORTHCOM command status at three distinct periods of time, such as NORAD Combat Operations Center, Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center, and NORAD and USNORTHCOM Alternate Command Center (which will be clarified in the history section of the article).

• NORAD has a Fact Sheet for Cheyenne Mountain Complex
• Articles written by the military about the location include "Cheyenne Mountain Complex" (google books search: intitle:"Cheyenne Mountain Complex")
• There are 15,700 books that include "Cheyenne Mountain Complex" and five pages of google news results. There are multiple pages where the U.S. Air Force refers to it as the Cheyenne Mountain Complex. Peterson Air Force Base generally refers to the facility as Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Base, but also refers to it as Cheyenne Mountain Complex.
• There are less than 28 books that refer to it as "Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker", one of those is a Wikipedia based book, and 5 news results. The US Air Force never refers to it as the bunker

[It is also called the Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station, (see Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station Fact Sheet) which now has control of the facility. Other units, such as NORAD and USNORTHCOM, are located in the facility/complex. The article about the Air Force Station is written from that standpoint.] CaroleHenson (talk) 06:11, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

• I have no opinion about this matter, but the Google Books hits have been calculated incorrectly. The (relatively) accurate count for "Cheyenne Mountain Complex" is 101] hits. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 10:28, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks so much! I learned something today! I ran the query and got 15,400 books... and the only way the count went down was to go to the tenth page, see that there's an 11th page and then click on that page. If there's a quicker way to get to that number I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know... but at least I know a work-around now to double-check counts.--CaroleHenson (talk) 10:56, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

• Procedural note – As Cheyenne Mountain Complex is a redirect with a two-edit history (no content edits), I have simplified the request so there's no confusion that this is about moving two separate but related articles. It is implied and understood that if "nuclear bunker" is moved over the "Complex" redirect, then "nuclear bunker" will simply redirect to "Complex" if this request is completed. Wbm1058 (talk) 14:14, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Thanks, Wbm1058!--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:04, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

• Support as the common name. I was wondering whether we should treat this as a proper name, but Google Ngrams supports the proper name. Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station should be merged into this article; see Talk:Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station. Wbm1058 (talk) 00:06, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

• Support per User:Wbm1058  — Amakuru (talk) 13:45, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Is this information notable for the article?

There's already a lot of information about the construction of the complex and its facilities. Is any of the following notable for the article?

Colorado School of Mines' Dr Livingston designated precision blasting to prevent later fracture of remaining granite Done and on December 21, 1961, with excavation 53% complete there were 200 workers on a wildcat strike. Done

On February 21, 1963, for "NORAD Phase II Facilities" ($6,969,000 plus $106,000 additional funds) Done Continental Consolidated was contracted for interior construction (blog) that began in March and included clearing the water reservoirs and erecting 11 buildings with 170,000 sq ft (3.9 acres) of space: Done 8 three-story buildings in the "main chambers" and 3 two-story buildings in the support area. Grafe-Wallace, Inc and J. M. Foster Co. received "a joint $7,212,033 contract for installation of utilities and blast-control equipment in April 1964" (e.g., the original six 956-kilowatt diesel powered generators). Done

In June, 3 buildings began occupancy ("South Center Building" on the 11th, "North Center Building": 17th, "Center Building": 28th), basic testing was satisfactory on December 15, and all 11 underground buildings were complete in December.

"Blast-resistant" communication with the DCA network (800 military installations) was originally via Cheyenne Mountain's 2 radio data links and 4 ground lines of the Close-in Automatic Route Restoral System (CARRS). Done CARRS nodes included the Black Forest Microwave Station of AT&T to the northeast and the Lamar Communications Facility east-southeast (initially of the 47th Communications Group). The Aviano Air Base correlation center for the Forward Scatter over the Horizon Radar network (440L system with AN/FRT-80 transmitters & AN/FSQ-76 receivers) was also connected to the NORAD Combat Operation Center.

--Any input is much appreciated!--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:06, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps the less significant construction details can be split to a sub-article Construction of the Cheyenne Mountain Complex, per WP:summary style, so as not to give undue weight to construction details in the main overview article. Wbm1058 (talk) 23:49, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Great idea! Makes a lot of sense.--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Split out construction into the new article and in the process of working on verifying, finding better sources (if needed) and integrating the info above.--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:55, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Made some more updates from reliable sources, skipped info from Yahoo groups and self-published source. Will try to find other info from reliable sources re: construction.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:38, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Soviet/Russian counterpart

From some sources of my reading, the closest Russian counterpart to the facility is regarded to be Kosvinsky Mountain, finished in early 1996.

However according to this rarther questionally accurate sentence from pre-emptive strike, it is Yamantaw. The Russian military also has a equivalent facility known as SPRN (СПРН), based at Mount Yamantaw in the Urals.

Some clarification on which one is the closer couterpart would help with this article, probably Kovinsky, but maybe someone here knows some stronger references for that.

References

Signature inserted: 178.167.204.95 23:57, 27 June 2015

That's an interesting question, unfortunately, no one has responded. Regarding this posting, there's been no activity on the IP user name since June 2015, but if the individual who posted this now has a username and is watching this page, it would be good to touch base about this. I'm unable to read Russian, so that won't help - and encyclopedias are tertiary sources, so we cannot use it as a source - but I sometimes look at sources like that to get enough information to search for good secondary sources. What we need are reliable secondary sources, like books, magazines, newspapers, etc. I'll poke around a little and maybe in the meantime, if some knows more about this, we could chat.--CaroleHenson (talk) 08:42, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

I happend upon this source that mentions Russian SSA systems on page 11 - and so perhaps there is mention in the source of bunker-type facilities that house the Space Surveilance systems. It's a thought.--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:51, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

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Coordinate error

{{geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for location of Helipad cited under Note B - the given coordinates are outside the perimeter fence and directly adjacent to residential housing and therefore unlikely to be true. The Google imagery is dated 2019 so unlikely that anything has changed. There is nothing in the vicinity marked with the traditional 'H' to signify a helicopter landing pad and the only suitable location is unmarked; so I would remove this note and mapping link until such time as a true location can be determined.

—Findeep (talk) 17:12, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

It seems to be a problem of outdated information; there certainly seems to have been a heliport at the coordinates given in the article. This page identifies the heliport as "closed". All the relevant Web pages I've found give the heliport's FAA identifier as CO33, but CO33 appears to be currently assigned to the private Ria Airport in Rush, Colorado. I'm just going to remove the mention of a heliport from the article; anyone who has any information about a current helipad at the Cheyenne Mountain site can add an updated mention, with the correct coordinates. Deor (talk) 19:47, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Coordinate error

{{geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for the location of the fire department - the original source (USGS) carries the correct coordinates but somehow they have been entered as the erroneous ones for the supposed heliport.

The required lat/long pair is: 38.7412551,-104.8390811

—Findeep (talk) 17:18, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks for pointing out the error. Deor (talk) 19:12, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Globus radar issue

The article claims By 1995, the AN/FPS-129 HAVE STARE (Globus II) radar in Norway had been upgraded to "relay data to Cheyenne Mountain", which is problematic because this radar was just going operational in California in 1995 and didn't get moved to Norway until '98/'99. Sadly I do not have access to the issues of the Guardian that are provided as a source for this statement. Maybe some editor just added the "in Norway" part without realizing that it was still in Cali at the time? -- Fyrael (talk) 21:13, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Uncited content

It looks like there's a trend to add uncited content, which I find is generally original research (or they would have added a source).

I removed content that is not cited here. If someone would like to research this information, that would be wonderful!–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:03, 22 March 2022 (UTC)