Talk:Can de Palleiro

Requested Move 5 March 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. William Harris, thanks for letting me know you withdraw your nomination, although for future reference, the general rule is once someone has supported your proposal, you can't withdraw it without their say-so. There are two conflicting views here, both supported by naming policies and guidelines. One, used in favour of the proposal, is to use English in titles, and the other, used in opposition to the proposal, is use the common name. The former is a guideline while the latter is a policy, which leads me to conclude that a subsequent requested move in the same vein would be unlikely to succeed without first gaining consensus to promote using English to a policy by means of an RFC. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 14:38, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

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Can de Palleiro → Palleiro dog per WP:USEENGLISH. William Harristalk 08:01, 5 March 2020 (UTC)—Relisted. – Ammarpad (talk) 10:59, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Support per nom. Cavalryman (talk) 09:41, 5 March 2020 (UTC).

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. This breed seems to go under several names including "Can de Palleiro", Galician Cattle Dog, Galician Shepherd Dog, Galician Celtic Wolfdog and Galician Palleiro. But not "Palleiro dog". 85.238.91.68 (talk) 01:50, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

I do not regard Dogell.com as a WP:RELIABLE source for any of these "common names". None of them appear in the official breed standard, which is where you would expect to find alternative names. William Harristalk 10:54, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose for now, as no analysis has been provided to show which name(s) are most commonly used in reliable English-language sources. Unless the proposed name can be shown to be that predominantly used, we should stick to our policy: "If there are too few reliable English-language sources to constitute an established usage, follow the conventions of the language appropriate to the subject ... Portuguese for Brazilian towns ...". Another useful bit of policy is "If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed". Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 12:51, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Your advice above appears to come from that section of the policy that specifically relates to the names of cities and towns. This is not a city nor town. Nor are we changing the common name; its name is the same, only the translation of its name is being discussed. It is not as if the proposal is for a change to "Lower Slobovian running dog" or similar.

There is no reliable source in English that uses the name "Can de Palleiro". Under WP:USEENGLISH, "The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language, as you would find it in reliable sources (for example other encyclopedias and reference works, scholarly journals, and major news sources)." We have a translation from Wikipedia's sister project, Wiktionary, in the article which I believe should be sufficient. William Harristalk 21:34, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Regarding your reversion of Wiktionary with "wiktionary is user-submitted content, not a WP:RS", Wikipedia is also user-submitted content. On what basis are you saying that Wiktionary is not a WP:RS? William Harristalk 21:41, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have linked "user-submitted content" to WP:CIRCULAR. Wiktionary, like Wikipedia, is a wiki and not a WP:RS. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:50, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Well no, Wiktionary is not mirroring Wikipedia so it does not fall under WP:CIRCULAR. "Sister project links should generally appear in the "External links" section, or where appropriate in citations. Two exceptions are links to Wiktionary and Wikisource that may be linked inline (e.g. to an unusual word or the text of a document being discussed)." - Wikipedia:Wiktionary. William Harristalk 21:54, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Hmm, I thought this was covered in rather more detail there; anyway, we don't – as I am sure you know – use any kind of User-generated content as a source, as it is not reliable.

"There is no reliable source in English that uses the name "Can de Palleiro"". That is not exactly so. On Scholar, two papers use the Spanish name, while none use "Palleiro dog"; on GBooks there are two verifiable results for the Spanish name, and none at all for "Palleiro dog" (the Stockdog Savvy book second on the result list does not contain the word "palleiro"). I can find no reliable source in any language that uses the proposed title. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 12:58, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

To the Reviewer - due to the Oppose count (above) I withdraw my move request. William Harristalk 02:08, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.