Talk:Birbal

Humor

His sense of humor and presence of mind,for which he is remembered in india,and Akbar loved him,is completely not mentioned here,why?please add these,other wise the article will remain stab. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.232.250.189 (talk) 16:08, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Untitled

A couple of points: I have read in George Dunbar's History of India that the correct name is Raja Bir Bal and that his original name was Mahesh Das (as opposed to Birbal and Maheshdas). Any confirmation? DevanJedi 00:36, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Some historians reckon Birbal is a work of fiction. I too have read, esp. in non-English (Gujarati n Marathi) historical lit. that the character is completely made up. I think this should be reflected somewhere in the article.(I dont have any references though). Although, it is general consensus that many of the short stories are just fables. Quork 17:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Legacy Section

Someone ought to write on the legacy of this person, regardless of whether he is real or fake. Talk about the stories for children, maybe even the cartoon. I think this article can go a lot further. Why am not writing it? There's got to be someone who knows better than me! Atrivedi (talk) 23:28, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Authenticity under Question

The article has conflicting information on the birth place of the character "Birbal". Picture states " Ghoghara, Sidhi district of Madhya Pradesh, India" and the article section of "Early years" specifies it as Narnaul , of Haryana.

Secondly the information floating in this page is completely without references. I hence propose deleting the page as the existence of this page questions the authenticity of Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truehistoryonly (talk • contribs) 14:06, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

The solution is not deletion. It is adding references. Removed "Some historians reckon Birbal is a work of fiction. Akbarnama does not mention of Birbal's existence. However few Indian historians do state existence of Mahesh Das as a poor Brahmin to have been born to Gangadas and Anabhadevi in Trivikrampur in 1528." Multiple secondary sources like [1] attest to Birbal. Exactly which noteworthy historians claim Birbal is fiction? --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 17:21, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

kayastha family

Birbal actually belongs to the Kayastha caste.

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CM Naim

I AM GOING TO REVERT or REMOVE FOLLOWING. ALL these edits done by Prof.Dr. Taskeen Ahmad Khan (blocked user, it seems) from single source C.M. NAIM, CM NIM has presented BIASED PRIMARY OPINION and not verifiable-scholary-research-based secondary sources. THIS IS CLEAR VIOLATION OF Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view, lack of Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources and Wikipedia:No original research through Wikipedia:Disruptive editing by the Wikipedia:Single-purpose account of Prof Dr Takseen Ahmd Khan.

Editor Prof.Dr. Taskeen Ahmad Khan (he seems to have been blocked from wiki, may be he is a serial vandal) has copied large chunks of PRIMARY OPINION written by single source which is written by CM NAIM, further both writer CM NAIM (i read his cited article and it is communally biased and not neutral) and editor Prof.Dr. Taskeen Ahmad Khan (seems to be copying large PRIMARY UNSUPPORTED OPINION chunks from CM Naim to show bias against Birbal due to his non-muslim origin) are muslims, their statements are PRIMARY OPINION with no reliable source, editor Editor Prof.Dr. Taskeen Ahmad Khan even misrepresented some f statements of CM NAIM OUT OF CONTEXT to make Birbal look bad in biased manner, Editor Prof.Dr. Taskeen Ahmad Khan also copied refrences used by CM NAIM in his article and Editor Prof.Dr. Taskeen Ahmad Khan tried to use those references from CM NAIMs work by copying those into the article here as if they are separate soruces and he quoted those in out of the context manner to support his biased statement. Editor even misrepresented works of CM NAIM as work of Minakshi to show as if the writer of biased OPINION is more than one (not ust CM NIAM) and as if wirter of biased DUBVIOUS OPINION is hindu while infact its a muslim (motives of editors are communal and ot driven by the intent of creating NEUTRAL ARTICLE). All this must be deleted, admins please warn Editor Prof.Dr. Taskeen Ahmad Khan (Pls verify if he has indeed bene BLOCKED by wiki because his username appears in RED color so i assume it means he is blocked form wiki or doe sit mean he has no userpage)}

Specific examples below:

C. M. Naim writes that these folk tales should not be viewed as an historical commentary but they contribute to the understanding of political history, "Akbar and Birbal" stories show a bias of a Hindu narrator for a Mughal ruler. Akbar is shown in a slightly negative way and his Hindu courtier, Birbal, always outmatches him. In each case, there is a powerful ruler who had a powerful reign at his time, who is paired with a jester-like minister whose wit is just as sharp with a legendary reputation. These jokes and stories make each powerful ruler including Akbar, because he inspired the people, seem more human-like and flawed for them. Naim further states Birbal was chosen and not the other courtiers because he was a Brahmin fitting the old Indian tradition: a powerful Kshatriya king ruling with an equally powerful Brahmin advisor and in this case, an indication of Hindu subversion over Islam.|reason= Editor Prof.Dr. Taskeen Ahmad Khan (he seems to have been blocked from wiki, may be he is a serial vandal) has copied large chunks of PRIMARY OPINION written by single source which is written by CM NAIM, further both writer CM NAIM (i read his cited article and it is communally biased and not neutral) and editor Prof.Dr. Taskeen Ahmad Khan (seems to be copying large PRIMARY UNSUPPORTED OPINION chunks from CM Naim to show bias against Birbal due to his non-muslim origin) are muslims, their statements are PRIMARY OPINION with no reliable source, editor Editor Prof.Dr. Taskeen Ahmad Khan even misrepresented some f statements of CM NAIM OUT OF CONTEXT to make Birbal look bad in biased manner, Editor Prof.Dr. Taskeen Ahmad Khan also copied refrences used by CM NAIM in his article and Editor Prof.Dr. Taskeen Ahmad Khan tried to use those references from CM NAIMs work by copying those into the article here as if they are separate soruces and he quoted those in out of the context manner to support his biased statement. Editor even misrepresented works of CM NAIM as work of Minakshi to show as if the writer of biased OPINION is more than one (not ust CM NIAM) and as if wirter of biased DUBVIOUS OPINION is hindu while infact its a muslim (motives of editors are communal and ot driven by the intent of creating NEUTRAL ARTICLE). All this must be deleted, admins please warn Editor Prof.Dr. Taskeen Ahmad Khan (Pls verify if he has indeed bene BLOCKED by wiki because his username appears in RED color so i assume it means he is blocked form wiki or doe sit mean he has no userpage)

However, historically he never played such a role.[1][7]Reason=He mentioned two soruces, first sources is misquoted as misnakshi is actaully CM NIAM and second one is copied from the inside of CN Naim's article, and these are PRIMARY OPINON and not secondary works of reputed verifiable accuracy

Badayuni mistrusted him but did mention that he was "having a considerable amount of capacity and genius".[1] The Braj language poet, Rai Hol, praised Akbar and his nine jewels, having a special emphasis on Birbal for his generosity. Abul Fazl respected him by emphasising on his spiritual excellence and position as a confidant of the Emperor rather than on his wit or poetry.[1]

Modern Hindu scholars assert that he made Akbar make bold decisions and the orthodox Muslims in the court despised him, since he made Akbar renounce Islam. But no evidence is present that he influenced Akbar's beliefs.[7] Though sources suggest he influenced Akbar's policies to some extent. It was Akbar's affection for him, his religious tolerance and social liberalism which was the reason for this and Birbal was not the cause. Historically, he was more of a supporter of Akbar's religious policy and his religion, Din-i-Ilahi. Ain-i-Akbari mentions an incident involving prostitutes, where Akbar wanted to punish him, contrary to how he is portrayed as a deeply religious man|reason=it is just PRIMARY OPINION of CM NAIM which editor Dr PRok Takseen has inserted by vandalizing the page allover with communal bias

Can someone please guide me if it is valid to include these above three DISPUTED INLINE templates inside the main article or should they be placed only in the TALK page, sorry my first time to use this stuff, first time to dispute someones's work and it wil be my first time if i revert these vandalised OPINIONS of CM NAIM copied by Prof Dr Takseen Ahmd Khan.

Thanks Being.human (talk) 22:55, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Responded on the user's talk. Ugog Nizdast (talk) 05:40, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

pls check my DISPUTED templaytes and discuss specific. Can u help me revert those edits whoever made it, im still not good in hw reverts work, i hv never reverted anyones work so far. pls discuss this topic here for all to see in future, including review boards, and independent parties, not on individual walls (user talkpages). In the name of good faith, can not allow legitimizing biased POV of PRIMARY UNSCHOLARY RESEARCH of CM NAIM from dubious publication even if it is requoted as CIRCULAR-REFERENCED by more dubious sources. NO GAMING and NO GANGING UP please. thanks Being.human (talk)

Hi, Ugog Nizdast, I had left msg on your talk page several days ago and i noticed today that you have put it in ignore list. You have not specifically addressed any of my questions to you and my concerns about the article. I am going to remove all the islamised biased POV from this article. I will remove all the content attributed to CM NAIM and or attritubed to referenced mentioned by him (most out of context and distorted and weight of importance does not hold, can not legitimize such low value work by putting on wiki as it is not of encyclopedic standard). Being.human (talk) 11:06, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Removal of communalised poorly soruced POV edits and Gaming of System by one editor using two accounts

For the context, see my previous section titled "CM NAIM". Content attributed specifically to CM NAIM and and Vicki K. Janik edited essay of Karen Treanor is all junk, none of these are peer reviewed journals or respected authors, search on them showed no academic or acceptable quality work, CM NAIm has showed tendency to distort and only karen Treanor shows up as obscure writer of 1 book on short fictional stories. their work is not of standard, not based on research, their reference list is low quality and short, and lacks critical analysis. Editor who edited Birbal article heavily used these two low quality references CM NAIM and Karen trenor to communalize the birbal article with heavily biased POV with islamic slant. I further suspect one of the editor is using two accounts to game the system, he is likely same editor who introduced these unaceptable edits to bribal article. I will remove it by tomorrow, let me know if anyone wish to offer help or suggestions to rewrite or to provide better sources. Being.human (talk)

I don't see anything wrong with using CM Naim or his article as a source. I have made some changes to the section. Please have a look. If you still have objections, please list them specifically. I also don't see any mention of a Karen Trenor or Treanor in the article.--Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 13:17, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Caste Birbal

Birwal was born in a Sakasaina (Kayastha) family A. Kayastha (talk) 02:46, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm pretty confused by this airtcle

So is birbal according to this airtcle a fictional character or an historical person? Or both? 950CMR (talk) 17:43, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Why it's mentioned jalaun uttarpradesh in early life

Pls mention correct in early life. Born in madhya pradesh sidhi district 116.75.24.183 (talk) 18:40, 31 January 2023 (UTC)